I have 0 motivation to do anything.
I resent each bit of work i do.
(PsychoChomp, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 14:34, 1 reply, 15 years ago)

Your life is all happines
Where do you work?
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 14:42, Reply)

For the NHS
in a pit of boredom.
(PsychoChomp, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 14:43, Reply)

OH HAI.

(wellgroomedwookiee is a filthy-minded hobgoblin, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 14:46, Reply)

Oh, I hate the NHS
and this stupid system of having to register with a doctor showing a prove of residence. Yeah? What if I'm living with my in-laws and I have none? I don't go to the doctor? Go to the A&E where they tell me the can do nothing and I should see my GP? Getting a nurse on the phone to tell me I'll be ok, don't worry, you don't need to see a doctor, just leave a sample of urine in this place and we'll call you? Really?
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 14:47, Reply)

Get on him. Tell him! YEAH PC! LISTEN TO HER!

( Lisette von Falcon, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 14:48, Reply)

All the surguries near me have ratings of less than 40% satisfaction
And one had the headline "smear tests shouldn't hurt that much"
( TGB checking Off Topic is still shit at, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 14:49, Reply)

They need a shovel for you though

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 14:51, Reply)

eeeesh :/

( Lisette von Falcon, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 14:55, Reply)

You get on the NHS website to choose a doctor
and you can see the ratings, so you choose one based on the ratings. You get there, and they tell you that you can't register with them because you're one street out of their border. But the surgery next door (with only bad ratings) will be happy to help you.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 14:57, Reply)

no fuck that
i like being able to choose the doctor i go to
( Lisette von Falcon, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:01, Reply)

Well, there you are
Right now I'm really pissed off with them. I'm trying to get my Spanish insurance to cover me here, paying a premium, as my English insurance (offered by my company) only covers emergencies.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:09, Reply)

Well there you have it
If you want a private doctor, you pay the private prices.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:12, Reply)

I know
I'll do it. I compare your NHS with the service we get in Spain and I can't believe what you get here, when your taxes are quite higher.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:14, Reply)

You do realise that Spain is practically bankrupt?

(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:21, Reply)

Yep
it's not for the NHS though. It's for the thieving fucking politicians that take all the money and never go to prison or have to give it back, even when it's proved that they've done it. And they don't need to step out of their position, either. So they don't do it.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:35, Reply)

Yeah, I hate the fact that all treatment is free at the point of access
It's a national fucking disgrace.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:02, Reply)

You clearly don't know better
But the fact that a pregnant woman gets only one ultrasound scan at 20 weeks unless she's in trouble is a fucking disgrace, it is. The same as the impossibility to see a doctor or midwife for the first 8 weeks, when the 12 first are the most important. And being told that if you need help you can go to the internet. And when you give birth you have to share your room with another 20 women and their crying babies.

Or having to spend 5 days in hospital for an ingrowing hair because they can't put the antibiotics right. Staying in a ward with many, many dying women who spent the night crying for mercy and that they let them dye.

Yes, you need to travel a little, I think.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:13, Reply)

Yes, but not every single hospital in the UK is in that situation
but if you want to have an argument by annecdote then I know a bloke who went to Hospital and had a great experience. So it's one all.

I'm also aware that if you go to another country and get ill they can refuse to let you leave until you've paid for your medical expenses.

However, if you live in the UK and you get in an accident you get picked up by an ambulance and you pay nothing, you get treated in A&E and you pay nothing and you get discharged having paid, wait for it, nothing.

The NHS is a bloody fantastic body, yes it has problems, but considering it's a service that really does treat everyone equally regardless of background, it's incredible.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:17, Reply)

It's not an annecdote
The stuff about pregnant women and midwives is standard treatment on the NHS. The stuff about registering at your living place and not being able to choose doctor is standard too.

The same things you get on the NHS you get in Spain too, with better treatment and better assistance. Maybe I'm spoiled, but I don't think it's right they don't check your baby at 8 and 12 weeks to make sure its heart is working, rather than waiting and if you don't bleed and are in indiscreptible pain, then you're ok.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:23, Reply)

It's not, you know.
It depends entirely on the local authority. ALmost all the ones I know do a scan at 12 weeks, for instance.

And the registration thing? I fail to see why having to prove you're a resident in the country/area to register with a GP is an issue. Seems entirely reasonable to me. If you want to be treated as a non-resident, say so, you'll still get treatment if you fill in a temp form. The registration thing exists for a very good reason - to stop one person being registered with 20 different practices every time they go somewhere different, which is a significant drain on admin resources.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:37, Reply)

OK, it's good to know it's not the same everywhere
I think, it'd be better if it was the same everywhere but for the good ones.

I just know that the friends that have had babies here haven't had anything checked until week 20. And no blood tests or meeting with the midwive for advice until week 8. Maybe they were unlucky.

My experience with the NHS isn't very good either, but that might be just annecdote.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:40, Reply)

It is entirely a resource issue.
And also, requires pro-active behaviour on behalf of the patient/couple. If you don't ask, you don't get. Blood tests for example - for what? if you are in a risk group for certain things, you'd get them if you asked. Otherwise, why bother?

I fully accept that, particularly our maternity care is not ideal, but it's the best that is possible in balance with eveything else in our healthcare system. And I'd rather have the NHS than pretty much any other healthcare system in the world, bar a couple of Scandanavian countries and possibly Canada.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:46, Reply)

I think the blood tests should be standard at soon as you know you're pregnant
as it's important to know your folic acid, calcium and iron levels, and which vitamins you might be lacking. The formation of the foetus during the first 12 weeks depends on the ammount of folic acid you have, so they should check how much you need to have.

I have to say, after using the Spanish service all my life, I find the NHS really bad, sorry. I hate the fact of having to see a GP and convince him that I need an specialist rather than being able to go to the right doctor from the beginning, for example.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:52, Reply)

Erm, how do you go to the right doctor from the beginning?
That would mean the person making the decision about what's wrong with them is you, then?
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:54, Reply)

Now stop that Badger
it's perfectly clear that the average Spaniard is far better qualified to determine what's wrong with them than any doctor in the UK.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:56, Reply)

Having seen what I have seen
I agree with you mostly.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:01, Reply)

Well, if you're not sure about what you have
you see your GP first. Or if you choose your doctor wrong, he'll refer you to the right one. But usually you know. If you have pain in your bones or articulations, you go to the reumatologist (Spanglish there, sorry); if you're bleeding out of time, you go to the gynecologist. If your back hurts, you go to the traumatologist. If you belly hurts, you go to the digestive system doctor. If your throat, nose or ears hurt, otorrinolaringólogo (??). Easy. Otherwise you call like the NHS direct, explain the symptons and they tell you who you should visit.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:59, Reply)

And for the vast majority of those issues
you don't need a specialist doctor, a GP would be perfectly adequate, and if they consider there to be a need, they refer you.

These are not intrinsic problems with the NHS, they are perfectly reasonable.

There are problems, going back to arguing by annecdote, I dislocated my knee, I saw my doctor, he sent me for a cat scan, the results came back, he said there was nothing wrong with my knee, this took over a month. I went to see my chiropractor a week later for a regular checkup, he checked my knee, popped it back into place a the next day I was walking normally again.

But I'm not condemming the whole NHS for that.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:03, Reply)

That way
Your GP gets saturated and doesn't have time for everybody; but the other way round, the work gets distributed.

I'm not talking about annecdotes. I'm talking about standards. No private bedrooms in hospitals, for example.

It doesn't matter. You like what you have. I think it could be improved. I'm not going to change your mind, you won't change mine. I've gone several times through nightmares with the doctors here. Not just one annecdote.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:09, Reply)

that's all that a GP is for, though. What else does he need time for?
And, swings and roundabouts. Private rooms would be better, aye. But they are expensive. On the other hand, French-style medical systems are almost single-handedly resposible for the last couple of waves of antibiotic-resistant bacteria due to their insane pandering to idiot patients who demand antibiotics for viruses. I'll be honest, medically I know what I'd prefer.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:14, Reply)

Yep, I think your system with the GPs would be good
if you didn't have to go crying and covered in blood (I might be exagerating a bit) to be referred to a specialist.

I know I have IBS. I know why it hurts. I know the stomach doctor know what to do. Please, don't send me home with paracetamol and telling me to take more fiber!
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:31, Reply)

Erm
there aren't any treatments for IBS apart from painkillers and more fibre/better diet. Sending you to a gastro specialist won't change that, I'm afraid. At least to my knowledge, and gastro isn't my field to be fair, but I thought that was pretty well known medically. Antispasmodics sometimes work, but since the best of those is peppermint you don't really need a doctor for that.

you have my sympathy though, it's horribly painful thing.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:41, Reply)

Yep
But the gastro specialist will check that it hasn't developed into cancer, as it's quite common, and that all that extra pain is not just gas on my bowels.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:13, Reply)

well, no, because most things are nowhere near as simple as that medically
but I can see that it would work for certain obvious things.

But it just sounds like the French system. It sounds wonderful, but everyone in the medical profession accepts it's mental, because it's massively resource-hungry (you need a specialist in every town regardless of how much actual work they have, for instance) and it hugely panders to the patient when the fundamental problem is that people are, in general, idiots, and hyponcondriac idiots at that.

But, really, all that is really going on is that you grew up in Spain, are used to the system there, and so prefer it. You don't get on with the NHS because it doesn't work like you want it to so you don't know how to make it work properly for you. Exactly the same would be true if I went to Spain or France or whatever. Doesn't make one system better than the other for the reasons either of us mention.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:05, Reply)

You are probably right
I'd be happier with the NHS if I could see a doctor in less than a week when I need him. If I didn't have to convince him that I'm in trouble to see a specialist. If I didn't have to share a ward when being sick at the hospital. If the nurses were trained to take blood and put intravenous as standard, not like an optional training course.

Yes, it's probably just me being picky.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:12, Reply)

you're obviously some kind of magnet for the special needs ;)
You can see a doctor same day anywhere provided you phone at the right time, they are obliged to keep a number of appointments free every day. I must admit I don't undertand the obsession with private rooms, it's a massive waste of resources and means nurses can't keep an eye on multiple patients simultaneously. I'd be worried about the blood/IV thing too but that's hardly common.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:18, Reply)

I must be, clearly
I have several problems like thalassemia, an extra bone in my back, chronic tonsilitis... everytime I go to the doctor here, I'm in trouble. Every time. They don't listen to me, tell me everything's ok, give me some antibiotics, and off you go. I'm still in pain, A&E didn't know why, they send me back to the GP and I know what he's going to tell me. It's a wast of time.

To see the doctor at any time of day you must take the day off and wait at home or nearby until they call you. Which is not very useful. If they'd let you see a doctor near your place of work would make some sense, but they don't.

The time I was in hospital 5 days, only 1 nurse was trained to do IV. In my whole ward. That's not an annecdote. The annecdote is that she did it wrong and I ended up with my muscle full of antibiotics, unable to move it and big like my chest.

The problem with the ward is that you have no intimacy. That the other people that are worse than you can really be very creepy (really, 5 nights of "Please, let me dye!" are not good for anyone). In a private room, you won't see the nurse so much, but you can have company all the time, visits are allowed all day, so they'll tell the nurse if something goes wrong.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:25, Reply)

you're clearly very unlucky with this country then!
and, look - I appreciate why you might WANT a private room, but that's not an argument for why it's better to have one, except for just from your point of view. The hospital's job is to get as many people better as possible for the least amount of money. People not having privacy is not high on the priority list. Needs of the many far outweigh the personal preferences of the individual. Giving you a private room ain't going to make you better quicker.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:32, Reply)

It might do
Being in a ward is terribly depressing. Being shown around when you're half naked is not good. Having the doctor to examin you and give results in front of everybody is not good. Makes you feel bad and doesn't help to recover faster.

I know money is a problem, but I think things are not done properly on the NHS. The private room is the smaller of the problems. I gave you a list, I can give you more, like failing to spot mononucleosis after a month. Not because they couldn't find anything wrong, but because they couldn't care to refer to the specialist and have some tests done. Nope. Antibiotics and go home. We had to go to Spain and have it diagnosed and treated there.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:43, Reply)

there's a reason for that.
You can't treat mono so the test is merely to eliminate other things, and is basically a massive waste of money. Did they do a bacterial/virus screen here? If not, it does sound like you've been getting some crappy doctors, but a mono test is pointless unless you're pregnant or they have a reason to suspect you have HIV

What did they give you to treat it in Spain? I'm genuinely intrigued as there is no treatment.

Edit - also, I've double checked on that and you can't pick up EBV antibodies until you've had mono about 3 weeks anyway, so a test in the first month is doubly pointless.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:55, Reply)

Sorry?
You do treat it to aleviate the symptoms. And you're told to stay at home and rest, not to take antibiotics and keep on your normal life. You can get very sick if you don't rest, and even lose your... bazo? spleen? mmm... I'm not sure.

A month is more than 3 weeks. They could have at least tried something different, after a month of fever and tiredness and no use from the antibiotics.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:09, Reply)

rarely you get a mild case of hepatitis, again untreatable
and, yes, you can very rarely get an inflamed spleen. But knowing what it is doesn't prevent that and you still can't treat it. Alleviation of the symptoms are the same as they would be for anything with the symptoms - NSAIDs, painkillers, fluids. Knowing it's mono doesn't help you one bit with any of those.

I know that to you this seems madness, because you've been brought up with a healthcare system that would have tested, but the only single advantage to testing is that you know. It doesn't help you, it costs a fortune and as it's an antibody level test it's inaccurate and massively open to interpretation.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:20, Reply)

Oh, yes
that's what my boyfriend got. Hepatitis from the mononucleosis! When we got to Spain he had developed it already. Maybe it was more than a month, then.

Well, I think if he had been told to rest and not move until he was well, he wouldn't have developed the hepatitis. Maybe not. They told him to keep going to work as normal, and he was probably spreading it around too. I only got mild symptoms and got over it quickly.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:23, Reply)

yeah, see this is the difference
between the systems. I don't understand why you need to be TOLD to rest if you are ill. Or, more specifically, why you need to know what's wrong with you to have to rest. Not having a go at your boyfriend, again, obviously that's just what you are used to. It just seems really obvious to me.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:26, Reply)

BTW
I've lived in Sweeden, the Netherlands and Belgium. No probs there to see a doctor in less than a week. Even without prove of residence. All I need is my E-111 and they're happy, wherever I am.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:15, Reply)

I keep telling you
you can see a doctor without proof of residence. You're just going about it the wrong way and trying to register as a permanent patient, which for obvious reasons you can't do without proof of address. It's not the fault of the NHS, just that you aren't used to how to use it.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:19, Reply)

But why?
No, if I'm living 6 months in a hotel in Sweeden, I can see the same doctor everytime I need. If I need a treatment, that's good.

In Worthing, the most I got as a temporary patient was one visit. They won't follow my treatment because I'm not registered and I'm moving home soon.

That means a month without treatment. Not good, not.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:28, Reply)

And, as I've said already
I registered with them as soon as I came back from hols and got my first appointment for tomorrow. Very fast, isn't it?
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:29, Reply)

If you want an appointment on the day
you phone them when they open and say you specifically need an emergency appointment. You get one that day.

It might sound like I'm having a go and I'm really not, I'm just pointing out that the faults here aren't with the NHS, just that you're not used to how to use it to get what you want
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:35, Reply)

I've been living here 6 years
and gone to the doctor many times. You only get a day appointment if it's an emergency. And you have to take the day out of work. I'm talking about being able to go to the doctor near the place you work if you want. Being able to choose your doctor.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:37, Reply)

well, yeah.
if it isn't an emergency, why does it matter if it takes a week to see them? that's rather the definition of "emergency"

being able to choose your doctor is a matter for debate. I can see why there are advantages, but they are selfish from the point of view of the patient. The system doesn't allow it, and that's how it is. Why do you need a doctor near work anyway? surely if you are so ill that you need to see a doctor right away you'd be off work?
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:46, Reply)

No, you're wrong again
You might be having a problem that still allows you to go to work. Upset stomach maybe. Maybe a cold that feels like a flu. Maybe a lot of pain in your ovaries, as I have now. I can go to work. It's not an emergency because I'm not bleeding. Therefore, that means 4 weeks of paracetamol until I see a doctor. OK, normally it would have been only 1 week, maybe 2, still it's a lot of time to be like this, not only for the pain, but for the stress that comes with not knowing what you have (I already went to A&E, they touched me here and there and told me to go to my GP)

If I could go to the doctor near work, I could work tomorrow and just take some hours for the appointment. As I have to go in Worthing, I need to take the whole day off.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:53, Reply)

You're bringing the problem on yourself
because you are the one refusing to take time off work. Seriously, it's you're own fault and yet you're blaming a system which could help you, but you've got to give a little too.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:57, Reply)

What?
I'm taking the time off work. Of course I am. After 4 weeks trying to see someone!! I haven't spent this 4 weeks not wanting to go, they couldn't visit me before. In fact, they gave me an appointment for next Tuesday and I asked it to be changed to Friday, so that I only lose 1 day, rather than 2.

What I don't think it's ok is that you have to take the day off for what probably is only a cystitis. And that you can't choose where you want to be treated.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:00, Reply)

No, no, no
You said you had to wait 4 weeks to see a doctor at a set time. Badger has pointed out that if you need an appointment that day that you can get one but you said that you would have to take the day off. Which is not unreasonable.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:02, Reply)

No
I said I had to wait 4 weeks this time, as I said several times that I tried to get the appointment after the hols but had to go through the whole registering thing and stuff. Normally it'd take 1 week, 2 at most. I know that.

It's that stupid registering process that I don't understand. And why I can't see the doctor where I want.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:11, Reply)

And again
I can't follow a treatment on a temporary registration.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:37, Reply)

I don't understand what you mean by
"follow a treatment" ? If you've got a longstanding condition with a prescription then all you need is a repeat, surely?
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:43, Reply)

No
It needs to be tested to make sure the medicines are still right, as it changes quite quickly.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:45, Reply)

since I don't know what's being treated
I can't comment, but maybe you have found a loophole in the system then - if you move around a lot but have a longstanding medical issue than the NHS lets you down.

It's still basically brilliant, though. whatever you think.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:51, Reply)

I think it's not bad
But it could be improved. A lot.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:54, Reply)

Having to wait 4 weeks to see a doctor
is a fucking disgrace too. And not being able to choose the one you want as well. The fact that they don't do one smear test, ultrasound and breasts check once per year... I could go on...
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:15, Reply)

How much does it cost to have an ultrasound?
Or a smear test? Or a breast check?

What are the downsides of having all these regular check ups? I'm thinking that you don't really want to be having breast X-rays unless you need them because 1) they are uncomfortable, and 2) blasting radiation at your tits isn't great.

So, somebody has done a cost benefit analysis of either screening everyone all the time at massive expense and inconvenience, or only screening people who are most likely to have the diseases you're screening for. Because the NHS does not have a bottomless budget.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:19, Reply)

I'd think not that much
On a private clinic the ultrasound is something like £50, so the real cost will probably be a lot less than half of it. That includes a picture that you don't need when it's just a normal test. The breast check is done by hand by the doctoc, who checks for cysts, no machines are used there. That's 5 extra minutes or their time.

And I suppose that budget includes as well that you can wait 4 weeks to see a GP and if things get worse then, well, that's ok as the cost benefit analysis says so.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:26, Reply)

The cost benefits are done, and I've been involved in a couple
but the main reason for nearly everything the NHS does is clinical.

With screening it's maily the problem with false positives. They mean you then have to take biopsies and shit, which have a risk of infection pain discomfort etc.
(PsychoChomp, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:29, Reply)

If you've got a family history
or you're at risk they'll screen often, there's no point doing blanket checks for everyone when 90% of breast cancer for example comes from the 30% of the population with family history.
(PsychoChomp, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:30, Reply)

Quite

(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:31, Reply)

I'm just talking
about checking breasts by the doctor with his hands, similar to the one you do at home, but making sure he doesn't miss anything, as he's better trained. Not talking about the screening.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:38, Reply)

Just pop to mine we can have some wine, I can check your breasts no problems

(PsychoChomp, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:41, Reply)

This post is best if you read it in a "greek kebab van guy" voice.

(PsychoChomp, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:43, Reply)

Hahaha
I might do, who knows.

I keep going to my doctor in Spain once per year, but he's very old now (and looks like Benny Hill) so you might get lucky.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:45, Reply)

Get Mark to do it for you.
He'll be all over that.
( Noeli overtheshoulderboulderholderthingstraplatchboobs, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:49, Reply)

Don't kid yourself that the GP is better trained.
You know your breasts better than anyone. If you think there's something different then see the doctor and be insistent.
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:50, Reply)

No, I don't see a GP for that
I see a gynecologist, who is for a fact, better trained than me to do it.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:55, Reply)

How on earth would a GP doing a check with his hands be any use?
He's not an oncologist, and anyway, even if he was, what you are looking for is changes over time and abnormal lumps - the only person that can spot that realistically is you.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:53, Reply)

See above
In Spain you don't need to go to a GP first to be referred to the specialist, you contact the specialist directly and visit him. I'd see my gynecologist for this, who is trained on it. And as he does it every year, he know what to expect.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:56, Reply)

I'm glad Spaniards have such great memories
because I sometimes forget what divots and scars are on my scalp and I probably scratch that once or twice a day. So for him to be able to remember what changed from a year ago is bloody spectacular.

Of course you could just be a massive hypochondriac.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:59, Reply)

That's why
he writes it down, so that he remembers for next time. You're just being silly now, you know?
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:02, Reply)

I'm being silly? And you're saying he writes down exactly how your tits feel?
No, you are being extremely silly if you think that a written description of a pair of tits can provide any better information than you carrying out regular two, three or six monthly checks yourself.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:05, Reply)

No, I'm not saying that
and you're being really stupid now. If there's something that doesn't feel right, he'll check. If it's ok, nothing wrong with it, he'll write it down.

As I said bellow, he know what he's looking for. I don't know how a cyst feels. I do the checks myself, but I like someone else to corroborate I'm doing them right.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:19, Reply)

To hundreds of women, though
how can he possibly remember one set of breasts?
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:59, Reply)

He writes it down
He's looking for things that are wrong, if he finds something abnormal and finally it's something that it's not bad, he writes it down and next time he knows.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:03, Reply)

You do realise that your breasts change texture and feel
over the course of every month, which is why you are advised to check yourself at the same time each month.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:06, Reply)

Yes
Do you know how a cyst feels, and, if you know what you're looking for, you can't miss it? I don't know what I'm looking for, though. I check if everything seems ok, but I have no idea what I should be expecting. He does.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:17, Reply)

If you found something, you *would* know
And there's a very strong possibility that the doctor - any specialist you care to mention - wouldn't know what it was until further tests were done.
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:21, Reply)

This^^
You're looking for anything which is different form "normal", and only you are going to know what normal is by doing regular checks yourself.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:25, Reply)

And
I want someone who know about it to re-check that I'm doing it right. I might have missed a spot, or just thought that doesn't feel too bad.

Most of the cancers in Spain are found by the Gyn. Women usually don't do the checks themselves, this way you make sure they get checked at least once a year.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:35, Reply)

But you should be checking yourself more than once a year
Every month or two, because if their is a tumor, you could be dead within a year.

And if you're not sure how to do it, doctors and nurses can show you how and there is so much information available about this.

But going to see a doctor to have your tits fondled is neither cost efficient, nor a good way of picking up potential problems.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:41, Reply)

It's a good way of picking problems
it's how most of them are found in Spain. Women a lot of times miss the cysts. Or think it's just an ingrowing hair or some fat. It's good to have a second opinion. And it takes him 5min to do it.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:47, Reply)

No, it is not a good way of identifiying problems, I just said, once a year is too infrequent to be a useful screen
If you find something you are concerned about, you go and see your GP who may examine you, or refer you to a specialist. But as I just said, you're looking for changes and you are going to be the best person to know if something has changed.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:50, Reply)

It's not bad
It's a way to make sure women get a check at least once per year. We have to do it every month, yes, but most don't do it. And it's a good way to get reassurance that you're doing it right and that things are still ok.

Again, they pick most of them. Very few women find them themselves.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:55, Reply)

You do realise that a woman in this country
is perfectly capable of going to see a GUI clinic for a general check up once a year if she wants, she just has to arrange an appointment herself, hardly a massive inconvenience.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:59, Reply)

No, I wasn't aware of that
And I think that's very good, specially if you don't need your GP first to tell you that you can go. In that case, I retract myself about the breast cancer check. I still think the other things are wrong, but well... And they could give us some info about that GUI thing too, when we have the smear test at least.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:02, Reply)

You might be interested in this, actually
Spain's mortality for breast cancer is about 20/100,000 as opposed to 27/100,000 in the UK. That's enough of a difference to maybe be significant, except that breast cancer is much lower in southern european countries than northern ones regardless of heathcare systems (the Dutch and the Danes have rates in the 40/100,000 for instance, the only nothern exception is Norway). So it's much more likely to be diet and climate and genetic factors than a man motorboating you once a year. But it's interesting, for sure.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:14, Reply)

I'm sure the diet and stress play a big game there
I'm pretty sure most of those cancers were diagnosed by gyns.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:18, Reply)

i'm sure they were
I'm just making the point that self-diagnosis is obviously at least as good or we'd have a brutally higher mortality rate.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:22, Reply)

Also
if GPs or Obs/Gyn guys here started doing manual breast examns annually then the sexual harassment panda would be all over them like they were bamboo.

I'm intrigued that a gynaecologist has convinced people he knows about breast cancer, though. That's some top fibbing work
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:26, Reply)

They get better trainning than here
for what you say.

And here, for everything the Doc has to do to you, there's a female nurse to check everythings fine. And he asks you everytime he's going to touch you if it's ok (which I find a bit irritating, but I understand)
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:33, Reply)

gynaecology's still got bugger all to do with cancer though
they'd be no better at spotting a tumour than your average car mechanic.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:36, Reply)

They are
You don't know what you're saying. They do find most of the tumours in breasts in Spain. Women fail to feel them sometimes, or just can't be bothered to do the check themselves.

He's been told as well as an oncologist, how to check for them. And not only breast, but ovaries and uterus cancers or cysts, using ultrasound. That's how most of them are found too, on your annual visit to the gynecologist. An early diagnose is the most important thing to fight cancer.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:49, Reply)

OK, but
if he's specialising in both gynaecology AND oncology he's going to be no better than average at both. There's a reason for extreme specialism in the medical profession.

Ovarian and uterus and cervical cancers are absolutely picked up in your biannual screen here too. But not by the bloke that does the smear, by the lab it's sent to, which is a specialist oncology lab. I'm sure that's same in Spain.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:03, Reply)

You see?
I don't know what that biannual screen is. I only get a smear test every 5 years here.

The Gyn specializes on women's reproductive system, and that includes spotting the beginning of a cancer or a cyst. Maybe that's why his degree takes 7 years + 3 of training at the hospital.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:17, Reply)

that's odd
every woman I've ever lived with has had it every 2 years. Bi-annual. sorry for confusing words.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 17:23, Reply)

What do you actually do for them?

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 14:49, Reply)

I predict demand and measure performance.
I'm an analyst.
(PsychoChomp, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 14:56, Reply)

lots and shit
you can go home now
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 14:58, Reply)

You can predict
I'm thinking on writing a strongly worded letter to the newspaper about them! Four weeks to see a fucking doctor, and I need to take the whole of Friday off because they only accepted me in Worthing, where I don't live, but I recieved a letter there and that's ok to prove I live there.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:00, Reply)

No point writing to a paper.
Make a complaint to the primary care trust, they have to investigate and give you a response within 20ish days. A few people will get an earful.
Honestly the NHS takes all complaints seriously.
(PsychoChomp, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:06, Reply)

What are they going to do
change the system and let me register at my place of work, rather than where I live, as I spend most of their working ours at work, not at home?
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:08, Reply)

If you really need to see a doctor
then you can take time off work.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:13, Reply)

Yes
I need to register to a doctor first. Which I can't do, as I don't have prove of residence, because I don't get my flat until next week and in the meantime, my post keeps going to Manchester. Do I take the day off and travel all the way to Manchester to see the GP? Really? For a urine infection that only needs some antibiotics? FFS!
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:17, Reply)

I don't know what's changed then because when I was at Uni
I was registered in Manchester, but I went to see my local doctor near brighton and got a presecription.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:24, Reply)

I tried to see one in Worthing as soon as I was back from hols
and was told I couldn't do it without registering. I got a temporary one by only showing a letter and my passport. Then I tried Redhill, and couldn't either. To register you need to show a couple of letters and mortgage or tenancy agreement (at least in Redhill) and I don't have them. So I can't see the doctor. I have to travel 2h on the train after work to see one in Worthing.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:28, Reply)

I said up there.
Temporary registration. Say you're on holiday there.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 14 Apr 2011, 15:58, Reply)

That's what I did in Worthing

(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 14 Apr 2011, 16:04, Reply)