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(, Sun 1 Apr 2001, 1:00)
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I’ve been watching Alastair Sooke’s simply excellent series on Roman art,
and it’s forced me to entirely re-evaluate my view of the Romans. It’s flipped my fucking lid, man. That series and Neil Oliver’s exemplary Vikings programme are really rocking my televisual world at the moment. You can shove your ‘cult US drama Box sets’ up your Dexter and shit out a Breaking Bad. Go on, fuck off.

Also, it turns out that being a nonce is actually fine, and objecting to child sex abuse is ‘petty’.

When was the last time you were forced to re-examine a deeply entrenched viewpoint of yours?

Alt: GCSEs - good idea to get rid of them? I say yes, they were shit and increasingly irrelevant. Plus I have full confidence that my clever child will do fine at exams etc. Bring back a two tier education system as it keeps the divvies in their place.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:33, 171 replies, latest was 13 years ago)
There's a good-looking history programme coming up on BBC1 Sunday 9pm too
History of the world but not the usual stuff, looks interesting.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:36, Reply)
I shall take a look. Thanks Loaksy.

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:37, Reply)
It that The Britains or something?
Looks good
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:38, Reply)
Something like that -History of the World
www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19586313
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:43, Reply)
I watched that Viking show last night, it was good
Hope this helps x
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:39, Reply)
I'm going to watch it today!
Imagine that!!
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:40, Reply)
Woah, get you!

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:42, Reply)
i don't want to brag,
but i might even sit in my comfy armchair with a beer, and put my feet up.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:46, Reply)
Hey, you said you DIDN'T want to brag!
:(
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:53, Reply)
It's fucking great.

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:42, Reply)
Come on Monce, ease back on the language yeah?
There might be children reading this m8
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:44, Reply)
Nah AA hasn't been in today

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:47, Reply)
Hey brah,
any kids reading today need to GTFO and FAST, there's a fuckin' NONCE on here.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:00, Reply)
woah
Well I had no idea....BREAK OUT THE NONCE SWITCH!
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:03, Reply)
New episode tonight, I believe.
It is really fucking rare that I am actually waiting for the next episode of a television programme.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:41, Reply)
I watched it on the iPlayer
I can't watch BBC2 in HD, but my telly has the iPlayer app.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:43, Reply)
Apart from when Martin 'money saving expert' Lewis is on GMTV.

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:44, Reply)
I like TV shows about huge fat people,
and murderers. I've yet to find a documentary about a murderer who only does fat people, but one day, my dream will come true.

I don't care what you say, i still think fucking kids in the bum is wrong, and i can't change that.

Alt: Two tier is the way to go, GCSE's were and are wankytosh.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:40, Reply)
Is it right to base an education system on exam-based regurgitation?
Is the ability to recall things you've been told a good measurement of intelligence? This question to caller number 1.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:41, Reply)
As far as i can tell,
exams, posed at the right stage in education, that encourage open discussion of the subject matter, therefore giving you and idea of how well the student has grasped the over riding concepts is fine. But it seems, and remember i'm a bit younger than you, when i was going through GCSE's and A-levels, we were less taught about the subject, and more taught how pass the exam
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:45, Reply)
Yeah, now that doesn't seem right to me
That being said, a lot of my job (and the jobs of my peers) seems to be less about actually doing something, and more about being SEEN to be doing something. So if you plan on working in an industry built on bullshit schmoozing, maybe you should be taught that way.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:48, Reply)
i have no knowledge of the way offices work,
in my industry, and especially in pubs, there is always something you can be doing to improve your business, the difference between a good manager, and a bad manager is how much of that gets done. Whether that entails the right pro-active staff, reams of job lists, or doing it all yourself, different styles, same goals.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:50, Reply)
Sure
A good manager is a good manager, whatever the industry. What's the answer, eh Windy? I'm thinking of becoming a buddhist.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:52, Reply)
I think you'd look lovely in a dress.

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:22, Reply)
IT'S CALLED A ROBE
and thank you x
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:23, Reply)
Alt; should be a four tier system:
1. Education of physically able mongs to do manual work.
2. CSE- type level for cretins.
3. O level- type for the reasonably intelligent.
4. Super stretching exams for the highly able.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:41, Reply)
Problem is option 1.no longer exists
Any low paid labour for grunts is foreign because it's cheaper. Any apprenticeships are not for grunts cos manufacturing is done by machines and trades now require qualifications - even to empty the bins.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:52, Reply)
Basically we should gas the divs then?
I'm with ya!
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:57, Reply)
Not quite the socially responsible way maybe. ...

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:10, Reply)
What's the point in qualifications at 16 when in a couple of years the school leaving age will be 18 anyway?

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:46, Reply)
I thought Kylie was shit till she did that song with Nick Cave
Alt: I'm not totally up to speed with this, but does this mean that coursework will not count toward the final grade? I was a total stressed-out spazz when it came to exams back in the day so I'm of the opinion that that's one big basket that all the eggs are going into that'll be broken to make some omelettes which is no better than two bird hands in a bush.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:47, Reply)
The role of coursework will diminish.
Exams will be longer and more difficult.
Endlessly retaking modules within courses to build up the grade will be scrapped.

All v good for me, I was superb at exams but shit at consistently doing good coursework as I can turn it on under pressure but cannot maintain it.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:55, Reply)
See, I'm the opposite, great coursework and mediocre or 'not bad' exams
When I did GCSE's it was a mixture of the two. Why are we switching to something that suits one type of person, why is assessing someone's ability to grasp a subject over a two hour exam better than assessing their ability over two years? Is this new system going to cover all subjects? I spent ages making a wooden CD rack for my Product Design GCSE , dunno if I could do that in two hours.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:10, Reply)
Well you need to saw faster, don't you, young master William?

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:18, Reply)
*saws faster*
...
..
.
*loses ability to count beyond seven*
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:23, Reply)
When I realised that Chompy was alright, actually.
Alt: Load of old shit.
I've always been an advocate of the German system, where kids are sorted at key points in their education, and streamed into academic, vocational, or general schools. That way you don't work to the lowest common denominator, kids with more manual/non-academic skills are not made to feel like they're thick, and the country has a functioning manufacturing base / skilled tradesmen.

And if you don't reach the level needed at the end of the year, you stay down and repeat it. That kind of motivation makes kids WORK. But strangely, German kids don't seem to suffer the same kind of stresses that ours do with the SATs nonsense.

tl;dr - Long live der Vaterland!
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:47, Reply)
I am a big fan of Germany in general.
They have their shit together, yo.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:00, Reply)
Me too!

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:02, Reply)
Yup-this ^^^^^^
Consistency= consistently average. If you want the best you also have to accept that there will be failure-someone has to be at the bottom. The modern school way of handing out certificates for turning up promotes mediocrity and holds back the intelligent ones.

There is no way half the people in the country are intelligent enough to do degrees - it's just to keep them off the unemployment books a bit longer. Making the degrees easier just devalues them.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:01, Reply)
Same with doctors and nurses really,
People who are more likely to survive should get the best treatment we should just accept that some people die, and use trainee doctors on the elderly or premature babies, and the good doctors on the non smoking, healthy 20-35 year olds with no family history of disease.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:26, Reply)
That's not really the point.
It's more about suiting the education to the child. If someone can't do physics, maths and latin, that doesn't mean they're thick. They might just be better at manual stuff like plumbing or bricklaying or something.

There's no question of them being second class citizens. The country recognises the need for a manufacturing backbone, and tradespeople are thought of in the same way as businessmen. Everyone's doing a job.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:31, Reply)
It fucking does mean they're thick.
Fucking thicky thickoes.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:33, Reply)

tinyurl.com/8m4vbk5
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:36, Reply)
Ooh you bitch!

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:36, Reply)
Monty disgusts me.
He's like a Viking Richard Littlejohn. I am not joking here.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:54, Reply)
Now THAT'S a good sig.

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:56, Reply)
you disgust me.
Disgust is my raisin de terre.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:03, Reply)
Hahaha

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:05, Reply)
CQ has sent me a wah wah wah gaz:
'not especially. you were a decent chap to have a drink with, but increasingly I have no time for your online persona. I de-friended you because you reposted my FB status on /ot, maybe not the greatest crime, but it annoyed me at the time.

anyway, not looking for a discussion on this, but I thought maybe a strait answer would stop the repetition of the same question'

FUCKING DIDDUMS.



(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:08, Reply)
I think posting a private gaz is a little ungentlemanly, Batso.
Just my opinion, of course.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:12, Reply)
Quite so

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:16, Reply)
I wouldn't normally, but fuck him. He's a cunt.

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:19, Reply)
Seems like quite a reasonable message, too.
Don't see much Waahing in that.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:23, Reply)
This really puts you in a good light

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:21, Reply)
Well, if you're determined to be a cock about it.....
Fucking flouncing autisms. ;)
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:24, Reply)
Your recent lack of participation here has made no difference.
As I am sure was the case when I flounced.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:42, Reply)
Odd, I went back over old Gazzes and it seems we were on good enough terms back then.
Ho hum, not going to loose sleep over it.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:01, Reply)
Indeed we were and I enjoyed beers with you on more than one occasion.
What ever happened to us? *sniff*
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:18, Reply)
well, in brief summary:
I acted like a cock
I flounced
I apologised
you accepted it(I think)
I came back
you called me a cunt
I gazzed you
you posted it.

feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:28, Reply)
Seems like a fair summary.
Soz. xx
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:29, Reply)
Fair enough, anything for a quiet life. :)
no tongues.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:33, Reply)
I had lunch with a teacher the other day
and apparently school's going to be compulsory until 17 in future. So they'll take GCSEs and then next year, presumably, take A/S levels. Meaning that A/S levels will become the graduating qualification standard and GCSEs will be...well, kind of pointless.

Can't be long before they're abolished.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:59, Reply)
I am really hoping that they ditch the 'stars' when they bin the GCSEs.
Inventing a kind of higher version of an A just makes an A into a fucking B you stupid fucking cunts.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:02, Reply)
They're just arbitary boundaries, what does it matter what they're called.

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:05, Reply)
Because I was brought up on 'the alphabet' and when I learnt it, the first letter was not *
It's fucking stupid.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:06, Reply)
Pass/distinction/merit 1st/2:1/2:2/3rd/pass
And you find that A* the problem?
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:08, Reply)
Yes.
All those systems remain as they were set up. If they were to introduce a new 'First * super-first' degree qualification I would have the same objection.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:13, Reply)
If they'd introduced a new lower grade of G, or whatever, and marked more harshly
they could've kept to the same system. But there's this weird drive to show that everyone's a winner and awesome and thick people can be clever academics too.

That's my problem with the A* grade.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:22, Reply)
Precisely.
The top 5% are the best, renaming that grade with some spastic new name, so that the second best people's grade now has the name of the old best ones, is fucking pointless and shit.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:26, Reply)
What if in say 1985 you needed 70% to be in the top 5% and 5 years later you need 75%?
That means someone who qualified with an A in 1985 could have have been a B standard in 1990.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:32, Reply)
Then boo hoo. You got a B.

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:36, Reply)
Grades are only partially for the individual,
they're mainly set for the universities and industry as a cheap way to judge people. For that to be useful, they need to be comparable over different years.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:38, Reply)
But how does inventing an extra letter to the alphabet help anyone?

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:41, Reply)
Universities and industry said
"we need another layer of judging, to show not everyone who got over 75% but everyone who got over 85%" so pragmatically the government went "ok then, but rather than fuck up all the past stuff we'll just do an A+, actually that sounds to American what other symbol can we use"
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:43, Reply)
Does it not follow that at some point they'll need an A** etc though?

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:47, Reply)
Exactly. Lowering the standard doesn't suddenly make more people cleverer!

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:26, Reply)
But what if, try to get your head around this, people are actually getting cleverer?
what do we do then man, what do we do then?
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:42, Reply)
People aren't getting any cleverer.
That's a daft statement. Are you suggesting that the average IQ of the human race is increasing generation by generation?
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:46, Reply)
Ummm every single measure says that statement is true.

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:47, Reply)
Every single measure except the universities and employers taking on these kids,
for whom these qualifiactions were devised?
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:48, Reply)
They're not saying and never have said there's a decrease in overall intelligence.
They're saying it's hard to find the top few percent themselves.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:53, Reply)
Fair enough.
I find it hard to believe, but if that's what the stats say, there's no point arguing.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:52, Reply)
Your IQ point is valid but for the wrong reason.
It's designed so that the average is always 100. So every time it's redone the boundaries change so the average score will always be 100.
If you do an IQ test from 1950ish, the current average is about 120
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:55, Reply)
Well, IQ is an artificial and somewhat subjective measure, but if we take it as synomymouse with inteligence...
I donj't see why not, although I was more raising the question than making that claim.

If we accept that intelligence is at least partly a matter of training, rather than being entirely innate it makes sense, people are getting more and better education younger and thus are learning to think better. Obviously there will be limits to capacity but I don't find the idea incredible and if chompy says it's true then it probably is.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:59, Reply)
also nutrition healthcare etc

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:03, Reply)
Good point.
general levels of relative prosperity/leasure time may have helped too. the more I think about it the more sense it makes.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:05, Reply)
Personally I think the education system is getting better at targetted education
ie training students to pass specific exams, rather than providing them with a general level of education which they're then tested on. If the IQ testing uses the same method of testing, ie testing people on what they've been trained to be able to answer, then it would make perfect sense that IQ scores would be increasing.

I strongly doubt that the human race is actually getting any more intelligent in the past few decades then it has been since we evolved.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:05, Reply)
Depends on what you consider intelligence, which is a hard thing to define.
But from your description that it's not changed since evolution, it makes me think that you think it's physically the number of neurons and connections. That's increased markedly since the agricultural revolution, still increasing now as we understand more about prenatal and postnatal nutrition. Vaccinations against viruses that can affect new borns and pregnant women. Antibiotics for bacteria.
Also you should look into something called neuroplasticity which is the effect of the enviroment on the physical connection of the brain. Basically, the more you're educated and stimulated, the more you work your mind the more connections exist and the faster they fire.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:16, Reply)
I think what I'm getting at is the difference between trained, educational intelligence
and maximum potential intelligence. I can accept that we're better educated, with a better background understanding of the way the world works and are therefore better equipped to reason through and figure out advanced problems than cavemen, but I don't believe that as a species we have evolved to have a higher potential intelligence. If, for example, you took a Bronze Age baby and brought it up to go through our education system I think it would have the same natural ability to learn and end up as educated as any modern human child.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:26, Reply)
So what you're saying is that the modern world is better at getting closer to our potential pinical intelligence
than we were in the past.
How is that different than "the population is getting cleverer"
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:31, Reply)
I agree with Chompo

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:33, Reply)
I agree too
*world ends*
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:37, Reply)
Given the number of people watching "reality" TV
I think the opposite is far more likely to be the case.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:47, Reply)
Yeah, I mean they're idiots compared to medieval serfs who would burn women who lived alone for turning people into toads.

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:48, Reply)
They're exactly the fucking same.

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:50, Reply)
And now we have people who burn houses
because they can't tell the difference between "paediatric " and "paedophile".
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:52, Reply)
Don't be 'petty' now.

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:58, Reply)
And many people who would deny rights to or even kill people
because their skin is a different colour.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:00, Reply)
They could make kids watch a weeks worth of Jeremy Kyle
then tell them that unless they do well at school they're going to end up like the guests on that show. That would've scared the shit out of me when I was a kid.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:04, Reply)
Awwww puppiessss
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19630411
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:06, Reply)
I like breasts

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:16, Reply)
Kroney likes Brest

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:31, Reply)
I watched that thing on roman art an all.
pile of old shite.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:19, Reply)
But enough about your house!!!!!

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:19, Reply)
wut?

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:26, Reply)
I AM MAKING A JOKE THAT YOUR HOUSE IS A PILE OF OLD SHITE!!!!!!!

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:30, Reply)
pretty lazy there monty, typical tramp.

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:34, Reply)
I'm just 'well jel' cos I live in a shop doorway, bro.

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:35, Reply)
:(

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:37, Reply)
I thought of you when I was watching the Viking thing
You know...because it was that scotch chap, and you're..well...y'know...one of them
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:22, Reply)
did you know the vikings used to fear the scottishes?
we used to ambush their boats and kills them. oh man, we've always been a stereotype :(
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:25, Reply)
Oh you crazy caledonians

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:31, Reply)
Thistle start a war

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:31, Reply)
Only if they're sTartan it

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:33, Reply)
They'll be Forth e chop

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:34, Reply)
Only jocking!!!

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:34, Reply)
That sort of talk will get you kilt

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:41, Reply)
I a(deep)fraid now!

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 11:42, Reply)
I still don't know how magnets work
:'( oh man
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:24, Reply)
Ask insane clown posse
They'll let you know
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:35, Reply)
I should also ask them how they get hip hop so right
When everyone else gets it so wrong. Except Limp Bizkit, obviously. They rule.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:37, Reply)
It's magic.
The magnets love each other so much that magic pulls them together.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:37, Reply)
thanks Loco
I no longer think you are FreeFair by the way.

Can we be BF and GF?
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:39, Reply)
Depends
Which one were you thinking of being, or can I choose?
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:42, Reply)
I'm totes the BF

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:44, Reply)
Cool
Maybe now I'll find out if my missus's whinges over the last few years are justified, or if she made it all up!
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:47, Reply)
The irony is, you probably don't.
Well, maybe you do. I don't. I mean I know what they do and I have a vague idea they have a magnetic field and it's probably something to do with electrons, but that's about as far as it goes.

ICP 4EVAR!
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:39, Reply)
it's not ironic if I genuinely don't know.
HTH xx
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:40, Reply)
Well, I thought you were joking about the whole ICP/magnets thing
and it occurred to me a while back that the amount of shit they get for that line is quite funny as most people don't actually understand how magnets work. Not to say that they are not regards for other reasons BTW.

Anyway, entirely possible I missed the exact definition of irony even if that was so. live with it bitch.;)
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:44, Reply)
the lolling at ICP was that they justified their fundamentalist Christianity.
As in, ignorant so invoked God as an explanation.

HTH xx

Also, general lollage at ICP because they are shit and childish.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:47, Reply)
I won't disagree.
Still enjoyed some of their songs though.:)
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:50, Reply)
You can't understand magnets unless you understand electromagnetism.
you can't understand electromagnetism unless you understand quantum electrodynamics and you can't understand that unless you know about quantum theory.
But you could get a summary by reading half a page of Wikipedia on magnetism you lazy cunt.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:45, Reply)
woosh!
Right there.
(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:50, Reply)
lol

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:51, Reply)
Please would someone start a new thread.

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:36, Reply)
Done

(, Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:50, Reply)

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