so what would you recommend?
1 - only people with nerves of steel, essentially psychopaths, join the police force? also they must have no emotions and no adrenalin.

2 - the police aren't armed, but the criminals are?
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:21, 1 reply, 12 years ago)

I would like to see the intelligence they had actually being used properly
and this situation not occurring at all. I would also like not to see lies being fed to press by the police immediately after these things occur.
( Bazongaloid, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:23, Reply)

I would like to see the intelligence they had actually being used properly - this applies to soooooo many people/situations

100% agreed, but there are always going to be rare exceptions, as this case was, where people will have to react quickly.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:25, Reply)

But it wasn't a "rare exception" it was a botched operation.
They appear to ahve stopped the car late despite knowing in advance that he was picking up the gun up. It appeared to be a fuck up form start to finish, particularly since one police officer nearly killed another one with a ricoheting bullet
( Bazongaloid, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:27, Reply)

people make mistakes; until we have robocop doing the job, we are stuck with that risk
I bet you've made loads of mistakes at work - who hasn't? unfortunately this one had very severe consequences. but I totally agree with badger: in today's society, armed police are a necessary evil, as you simply cannot expect them to deal with parts of today's society without being armed. when you think of how many things the police do, this is a very small percentage.

yes it's disturbing, but I think it's better than the alternative, as badger said much better than I am doing.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:29, Reply)

There is quite a significant difference between making a mistake that involves ordering too many paperclips
or sending out a report with a typo in it, and shooting a man dead.

I do hope you can see that.
( Bazongaloid, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:30, Reply)

of course i can
but from time to time, in a world where we are policed by human beings, mistakes are going to be made. occasionally those mistakes will have grave consequences. i'm not saying it's ok or right, but I can't think of a better alternative, until tangles is king of the world and we all live in one gigantic happy yurt.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:32, Reply)

www.b3ta.com/questions/offtopic/post2182788

The better alternative is that when people die an open and thorough investigation is carried out and the police don't close ranks and lie.
( Bazongaloid, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:34, Reply)

that is your assumption
that they are closing ranks and lying. you weren't there, and you weren't at the hearing...
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:38, Reply)

5.9.83.79/questions/offtopic/post2182803
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:39, Reply)

so, what's your alternative?
personally I think there are massive flaws, but it's still as good as it's going to get in a world where some people are happy to rob and maim and terrorise and rape and murder others.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:41, Reply)

What Al said
"The better alternative is that when people die an open and thorough investigation is carried out and the police don't close ranks and lie."
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:42, Reply)

right
so what kind of investigation do you want to see, other than a british court case, british justice being the model justice system in many countries around the world?
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:44, Reply)

I'd like to see that in every case, but it isn't.
I'm not saying the situation didn't warrant the officers shooting him, they may well have done, but as soon as it happened the police lied to the press stating that he had opened fire on them first, which they knew not to be the case. But nobody got censured for that.

In the case of Ian Tomlinson it was only because a member of the public passed their evidence to a newspaper that an officer was investigated, and despite being found guilty of unlawfully killing a man, the chap was discharged.
( Bazongaloid, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:48, Reply)

precisely this
Lying and closing ranks.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:49, Reply)

The alternative is to have actual accountability to those that we give huge power to
if you are a police officer you should be held to a much higher standard and there should be a truly independent investigatory body to look at any officers when there is suspicion of them being involved in the death of a member of the public.
( Bazongaloid, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:43, Reply)

let's not forget that they do an often dangerous job, and get paid fuck-all
who would do the job with that hanging over them as well?
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:44, Reply)

They get paid very fucking well
and nobody forces them to do that job.

They have so much power they ought to be held accountable.
( Bazongaloid, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:49, Reply)

i disagree
I don't think police or teachers or nurses get paid anywhere near enough
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:54, Reply)

They could be paid more, they could stop trying to steal their pensions
but they are not paid badly.
( Bazongaloid, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:58, Reply)

I'm all for paying public servants properly.
You should know that.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:50, Reply)

I'm with Al here
The police have a pretty solid track record of closing ranks, why do you think there's never been a successful prosecution for coppers where people have 'fallen down the station stairs' etc?

They lie, they collude and they close ranks.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:42, Reply)

wellknown scottish skaghead and druggie in hating police shocker

( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:43, Reply)

nothing to do with that
But this is yet another incident of the coppers doing something demonstrably wrong and where someone died as a result. And once again, they get away with it.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:46, Reply)

you were gurning too much for that to be audible

( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:47, Reply)

LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALA

(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:48, Reply)

that's just not correct.
Some arsehole was driving around the city WE live in with a firearm.
(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:49, Reply)

allegedly.

( GeordieJay Bummers are deaf, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:50, Reply)

yeah, the copper that shot dead the unarmed man

(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:50, Reply)

SMASH THE SYSTEM MAN!
KILL THE PIGS! FREE DRUGS FOR ALL BABYGURLZ!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:51, Reply)

oh dear, have you sunk to my level?

(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:54, Reply)

it's actually quite good fun
*dances to obscure record*

*wanks self off with hamster*
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:55, Reply)

He WAS armed.
Just didn't have a gun in his hand when he was shot.
(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:52, Reply)

he was no threat to the coppers
They made a mistake, a man died a violent death, there should be someone held accountable and that person should be punished.

I really don't see how you can argue against that.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:57, Reply)

It's OK, he wouldn't have been able to shoot Dozer
all the DPM and mirror finish would have rendered him a hidden target.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:51, Reply)

^ still upset

(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:53, Reply)

abloo.

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:59, Reply)

Regrettable incident blah blah.
The individual copper though had reasonable suspicion that the lad was armed, which he was. Duggan got OUT of the car after a hard stop and started moving his arms about.

I am surprised he was only shot twice.
(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:36, Reply)

^

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Thu 9 Jan 2014, 15:26, Reply)