or a law-abiding citizen
who doesn't want to see the music industry collapse, bereft of its diamond encrusted limousines?
( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:09, 2 replies, latest was 15 years ago)

Poor old Metallica.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:10, Reply)

The thing with Metallica
is that they are already outrageously rich. Those cunts.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:22, Reply)

Quite honestly
I really dont give a shit.

I'm happy to buy CDs straight off bands who have paid in order to have them pressed and whatnot. I'm happy to support bands. I am not happy to support the music industry. Adapt to survive. Bands have in the past proved themselves capable of starting their own record labels.

Frankly, I find the argument that you should pay the music industry because the musicians don't have an alternative to be utterly farcical.

Edited for idiotic spelling.
( Kroney, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:15, Reply)

Does that apply to publishing books too?
you think that all authors should just find the money to print their own books and negotiate contracts with bookshops?

There's a big flaw in your argument, because while bands can release their music without a record company, they will struggle to promote it. Or tour.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:19, Reply)

It will do as eBooks become more popular
at the moment the cost of printing is prohibitive.
(PsychoChomp, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:21, Reply)

still doesn't deal with the promotion part of it.
Still doesn't handle touring for music.

/also, as an aside, eBooks are not going to do for books what mp3s did to music, because too many of us simply don't like reading things not written on paper.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:23, Reply)

i hate the very idea of ebooks
they are really offensive. books are one of the most tangible pleasures in life - you can spend hours in a bookshop browsing and choosing, and they are lovely things to have around the house. (although i may have a few too many for a flat). also they would make my eyes feel funny, it's bad enough staring at a computer at work all day.

ban the e-books.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:28, Reply)

books
vinyl
/same argument, you can't stop progress swipe
(PsychoChomp, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:33, Reply)

this is regression
not progression
( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:39, Reply)

Whats wrong with writing on the cave walls anyway?

(PsychoChomp, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:44, Reply)

how is it regression?

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:47, Reply)

Me too.
I can't imagine ever using an e-book. I love the smell of old books too.
( girlinthehole, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:44, Reply)

k t
(LongJohnBaldry, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:45, Reply)

because i say so
keep up, vipros!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:50, Reply)

*wrong post is posted wrong*
( girlinthehole, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:51, Reply)

at least I can reply in the right place ;-)

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:51, Reply)

She's going to tipex it off now
because editing is too regressive.
(PsychoChomp, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:54, Reply)

my first ever mistake
and i get pilloried to the point of flouncing...

bgb - shame on you, i thought we were friends, how could you.

vipros - you used a smiley. thus you are below contempt and your opinion is dead to me.

psychochomp - overall generally below contempt and should be dead anyway.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 11:04, Reply)

first ever mistake?
I suspect not.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 11:06, Reply)

sad but depressingly true
first mistake on here, then.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 11:11, Reply)

That was your first mistake.

(PsychoChomp, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 11:11, Reply)

this post makes no sense?

( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 11:12, Reply)

That was your second mistake

( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 11:14, Reply)

it does
and it's amusing
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 11:15, Reply)

don't encourage him to think he's funny
it's much more amusing when he has to explain himself.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 11:19, Reply)

I reckon they will, sooner or later, especially as the technology improves.
Some reasons they haven't taken off yet - competing formats, DRM, readers being expensive. If I could get an e-book reader I can read on a night bus without too much concern that I'm going to get mugged for it, I'd have one already.
(wellgroomedwookiee is a filthy-minded hobgoblin, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:29, Reply)

I wasn't that bothered about them
Until they brought out iBooks. I loaded it up for a browse, found the quality and readability of the free book (Winnie the Pooh) to be excellent, so thought I'd by some ebooks for my holiday.

The iBooks store were charging 17 quid for a Charles Stross book, same again for Christopher Brookmyre, both of which I bought new as paperbacks for about 3 quid each on Amazon...
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:32, Reply)

I just read the girl with the dragon tatoo, for free.
It was advertised, slightly annoying popup which you had to click about twice a chapter. It didn't bother me that much though.
(PsychoChomp, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:35, Reply)

tattoo

( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:38, Reply)

It's the swedish spelling.

(PsychoChomp, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:40, Reply)

did you read it in Swedish?

( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:57, Reply)

Of course.

(PsychoChomp, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 11:05, Reply)

the iAd framework has so much potential, to do what AdWords did for webpages, only for Apps.

( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:48, Reply)

With the greatest respect
this is the wrong place to gauge opinion. this is a website of, what, 100,000 mostly geeks? (not meant negatively, it just is)

It's not going to happen in the real world. Too many people LIKE books. I'll 'fess up if it turns out I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:34, Reply)

it's 10,000 with 10 log ons each.

(PsychoChomp, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:36, Reply)

I LIKE books, I doubt I'll ever stop buying them,
but I would certainly use an e-book reader as well, if only to save on luggage space on holidays and such.
(wellgroomedwookiee is a filthy-minded hobgoblin, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:41, Reply)

that's my view
I intend to try one out when I get the chance, but even if I got one it wouldn't stop me wanting to own as many books as possible.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:46, Reply)

that's the only reason I'd consider it.
But it would have to cost about £25 for me to risk it in my luggage.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:47, Reply)

Promotion of a books is a strange one
because it's so dependant on word of mouth. It depends what you want though, you're obviously not going to ever have the big blockbuster 20,000 in a day sales that large scale promotion wants and in fact needs to sustain itself. There's nothing wrong with pushing for a gradual increase of sales through submitting it for reviews in blogs/newspapers/magazines/book clubs.

To your aside, I think it's going to head towards eBooks in just the same way as mp3's have. The kindle etc are actually quite nice to read from, nothing like a normal screen, and the iPad has to make a difference to the market. It's just going to take some time.
(PsychoChomp, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:32, Reply)

http://www.b3ta.com/questions/offtopic/post864674

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:36, Reply)

www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/jul/20/amazon-ebook-digital-sales-hardbacks-us
(PsychoChomp, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:39, Reply)

So? No-one buys hardbacks.
Also, "Amazon in being completely honest about sales figures and not massaging them"* yeah right. Have you met my good friend Lord Lucan?

*/I've got to go and lecture now so I don't have time to look, but I'm willing to bet you £20 right now that what Amazon have done is they've compared book titles directly for those figures. i.e the number of eBooks of "dragon tattoo" vs number of hardbacks of "dragon tattoo". Which will be about 11, as it's been out in paperback for years. It's not lying, but it's massively misleading. There's no way they've just added up "total eBooks" and "total hardbacks"
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:46, Reply)

I'll check the fiqures and get back to you.

(PsychoChomp, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:48, Reply)

I think the biggest problem with the iBook store is that it's not really any cheaper to buy a phsyical book over an eBook.... but you have to outlay £400-500 for the reading equipment.
However, Kindla have an store I've not tried where the prices are quite a bit lower.

Where these devices come into their own though, is with law and medical students, and to a lesser extent every other student or academic, who have to carry around huge books.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:47, Reply)

This.
I am a huge book reader, but can't "read" a book on a screen. It just doesn't have the same feel or ease as printed paper.

I'm probably all of TEH WRONG and old fashioned, but to that I say... meh.
( The Teviot Moose major 5th., Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:55, Reply)

I read an awful lot too
have read a whole book on CRT screen before and it was awful. I'd need to have a week to see how I got on with an ereader I think
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:57, Reply)

If a viable alternative came along
and the publishing companies banded together to try to hang on to the more profitable past rather than trying to work out how to use the technology to their own benefit, then certainly.

The music industry essentially tried to destroy a new form of technology because they a) couldn't work out how to harness it properly and b) had got used to keeping the vast share of record sales money for their own profits.

If mp3s and internet mean anything, it means that bands can release music, accept payment and film gigs for internet release completely without a music labels input. I'm not against paying for music at all.
( Kroney, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:24, Reply)

That is true.
But where I suspect we differ is that I don't regard failure to adapt or the music companies failings as reason to download illegally.

I do disagree a fair bit about music companies input. Without some input, we'd spend our lives searching through utter utter dross to find even capable musicians, let alone something we liked. I don't have that time. There needs to be some form of weeding of dross. I'll happily pay just for that. How many 16-18 year old idiots did you know who thought they would be the next big thing when they could barely hold a guitar the right way up, for instance?
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:32, Reply)

a lot of those idiots are in the charts

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:33, Reply)

"The charts" are hardly the only thing that music companies promote.

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:35, Reply)

I am aware of that
but I was pointing that a lot of shit comes down through the music companies anyway.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I gig quite a bit and am all too aware of how many shit bands are around who think they are the bollocks. Not us though, we know we're shit.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:38, Reply)

Aye, and I'm not disagreeing that the music industry needs a kick up the bracket.
watch out though for the fine line between "shit because it isn't my taste" and "actually shit because they have no musical talent" - a lot of chart stuff is former rather than latter
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:41, Reply)

that is a fine line
there are a lot of fuckers with very little musical ability around though.

The main reason I hate U2 so much is because their more recent songs sound like they have been written by children.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:45, Reply)

Very different thing.
The overhead in publishing tends to go on stuff like editing, without which the product would likely be rubbish. Hence why e-books cost about the same as hard copies - the actual production costs of a dead-tree book are trivial. Quite a lot of self-published e-books are turning up these days, but they're rarely good (more here).
(wellgroomedwookiee is a filthy-minded hobgoblin, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:25, Reply)

The collapse of the old order
is the best thing to ever have happened to the music industry, in my opinion.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:19, Reply)

there's an excellent video of Dick Dale offering advice to young bands about self-promotion and stuff

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:23, Reply)

And a great article/interview with Trent Reznor
Regarding his breaking away from the music industry in order to release music on the Internet, and what new bands can do to get their music out there.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:34, Reply)

people can learn a lot from the likes of Dick and Trent
I think they should form a duo
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:35, Reply)

Trent's too busy making music with his immensely hot wife
I think Trent summed it up nicely by saying that if you want to be in a band to get rich and famous, sign with a record label. If you want to make the best music you can and share it with others, the Internet is your friend.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:39, Reply)

hard to get rich and famous these days.
I don't even care if anyone hears my music, I just like making it.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:41, Reply)

You have musical integrity
Countless thousands don't ;)
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:50, Reply)

not sure it's integrity.
realism perhaps.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:53, Reply)

if you got rid of the music industry
there'd be a lot of unemployed people. i'd rather give the cash to warner than the dole Q!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:21, Reply)

That
is were you and I suffer a difference of opinion.
( Kroney, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:25, Reply)

This is why when I go to ASDA or Marks'n'Sparks, I walk out with my trolly, fucking fucks trying to charge me when they're already rich.
They should give me shit for free 'cus they got more money than me.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Tue 14 Sep 2010, 10:30, Reply)