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# and the crusades were just a bad dream
(I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:15, archived)
# That was just religion being used
as a tool for influencing people. And for rulers to be shitty to other people when they wanted to steal their stuff. If no religion existed, it would have been something else used as an excuse.

At the time of the Crusades, most people wouldn't have had access to a bible because:

a) They mostly couldn't read

and

b) They didn't understand Latin.
(I helped save b3ta! Afinkawan Yes I can hear you Clem Fandango, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:17, archived)
# the Church didn't want the common man reading
it kept them docile
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:19, archived)
# Yep.
That was The Church, not the religion.
(I helped save b3ta! Afinkawan Yes I can hear you Clem Fandango, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:19, archived)
# and now we have 12 different english version
from NIV to the Message...

and still the common man doesn't read em
(Canazza is mostly listening to Yes, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:21, archived)
# but which religion?
there are so many offshoots, extremes and minor versions that it's impossible to simply say Christianity any more. In the same way that you can't point at a suicide bomber and say Muslim.

Religion may well have been really good and nice once but then mankind got hold of it.
(I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:21, archived)
# ^This
it's not the religions themselves (i.e. the words in the various holy books), it's the organised religions that use it to get their own way and tell others what to do.
(I helped save b3ta! Afinkawan Yes I can hear you Clem Fandango, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:23, archived)
# I just agree with everything that Jesus chap said.
I think he was a pretty groovy cat.
(I helped save b3ta! Captain Wow currently being a cunt in Infamous, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:24, archived)
# ^This
Be nice to each other was basically what he said. Can't really disagree with that too much.
(I helped save b3ta! Afinkawan Yes I can hear you Clem Fandango, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:25, archived)
# political agitator
and alleged son of god

good with MFI flat packed furniture too!
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:25, archived)
# yes
but those are things everyone could agree on even without religion, like the 10 commandements.
It's all about "how can humans live happily with each other".
(I helped save b3ta! pzyko Query failed., Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:28, archived)
# ^This
even if there is no God/gods etc. Religions basically all contain very good rules on how to have a large bunch of people in one place coexisting tolerably.
(I helped save b3ta! Afinkawan Yes I can hear you Clem Fandango, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:30, archived)
# which are basically built in to us through evolution
in the same way that dogs live in packs and gorillas take care of their environment in the wild.

But religion doesn't like people suggesting that nature invented their rules or that evolution ever happened.

I'd like religion if it wasn't so manipulative and self obsessed.
(I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:34, archived)
# Sorry, but I don't agree with that (first) statement.
Most "built-in" features like egoism and envy (which can lead to murder etc) are only kept at bay by cultural education.
Our natural drives are always struggling with our conscience, and when the concience loses, bad things tend to happen.
(I helped save b3ta! pzyko Query failed., Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:42, archived)
# but how do you know what he said
when he said it 2000 years ago?
Journalists today can't get a quote right that was spoken yesterday?

Plus his words were first documented some 400 years after saying them according to most scholars dating of Bible number 1.
(I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:28, archived)
# True
but as I'm not hurting anyone, I'll believe whatever I like.
(I helped save b3ta! Captain Wow currently being a cunt in Infamous, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:32, archived)
# thats fine and dandy and the best approach
(I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:36, archived)
# ^ FAG ENABLER!!!! ^
BURN IN HELL!!

:D

/LT
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:33, archived)
# The message is as it is.
You either agree with it or don't.

Unless you're saying that you do believe in Jesus and that he was the son of God, then obviously the authenticity of what's in the Bible is a lot more important.
(I helped save b3ta! Afinkawan Yes I can hear you Clem Fandango, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:33, archived)
# although the bible was collated and published as ONE work
400 years after the events, the books and letters themselves were in wide circulation well before then. The old testament infact, was copied and copied for thousands of years and nothing was changed between them.
(Canazza is mostly listening to Yes, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:37, archived)
# are you sure?
isn't the da vinci code based on one error a monk made whilst translating the book in the 1500s?
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:43, archived)
# isn't the da vinci code a work of fiction?
(Canazza is mostly listening to Yes, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:52, archived)
# or
in the same way that the Koran is only really taught in classical arabic--So to learn about Islam either learn fluent Arabic or listen to your Imam......Mmmm sounds like Roman Catholicism circa 1500???
(archstanton The gold is next to me....leave me be, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:24, archived)
# there are english translations of the Qu'ran
my mate has one
(Canazza is mostly listening to Yes, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:27, archived)
# Ah yes
but they arn't meant to be used really--A mate explained to me that it would be like reading a really bad photocopy of something---In the Arabic it is as the Prophet spoke...
(archstanton The gold is next to me....leave me be, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:30, archived)
# a similar reasoning behind the 14th century catholics
that changing the bible from the original latin/aramaic/greek would rob it from it's original meaning.
They eventually saw the flawed reasoning in this, in the fact that any word, even if it has multiple meanings, can be included in a translations.
For example, there are about 5 different Ancient Hebrew words for love (like brotherly love, parental love, matrimonial love etc) all which can be translated to English with mutliple words. Same will apply to Arabic.
(Canazza is mostly listening to Yes, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:34, archived)
# This are the people that banned certain musical notes.
How many people died in England just from the shifting to and through from CoE and Catholic?!
(I helped save b3ta! riverghost servicing your mum since, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:24, archived)
# Yes!
Not many people know how many poor fluffy bunnies were saved by those caring Christians!
(I helped save b3ta! riverghost servicing your mum since, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:17, archived)
# Because humans have never twisted a benign ideaology to suit their own ends?
(I helped save b3ta! Captain Wow currently being a cunt in Infamous, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:22, archived)
# *bing*
Did you know that the Church of England has controlling shares in a company called GEC, the company that makes the Stinger missile launcher?
(I helped save b3ta! riverghost servicing your mum since, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:28, archived)
# Again, run by humans.
I didn't know that actually, that's mildy scary.
(I helped save b3ta! Captain Wow currently being a cunt in Infamous, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:30, archived)
# St. Francis of Assissi
(I helped save b3ta! Afinkawan Yes I can hear you Clem Fandango, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:24, archived)
# I never knew he was in the crusades?!
But if you are using his as a paragon of Christian virtue, you should mention that they went and formed their own separate order!
(I helped save b3ta! riverghost servicing your mum since, Thu 12 Apr 2007, 16:30, archived)