MPs vote to remove Animal Sentience from the EU withdrawal bill
Apparently we've been wrong all these years and animals can't feel pain.
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HappyToast Groat froth, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 7:46,
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that seems a really odd thing to do
how does it benefit the UK?
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sock more tea vicar?, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 8:51,
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MOAR HUNTING OF THE RED DEVILS
HUZZAH!!1
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Fadgebadger Sweaty sumo wanks for everyone!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 9:05,
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I’m sorry,
But even the Germans have lost interest in bombing Liverpool.
(, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 19:56, Reply)
The way it benefits the UK
is that it will allow some people currently restrained from being cunts to be more of a cunt.
Businesses can ignore more workers rights
Racists can be more openly hostile to foreigners
Animal torturers can hurt more animals
Polluters can pollute more
And so on. As far as I can see there are not any actual benefits unless you are some form of cunt. The economy will be worse, opportunity will be worse, rights will be reduced, prices will be higher, the government looks to be tightening the grip on the public.
A good deal for cunts, shit for everyone else.
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My Name was saying these words inside your head on, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 13:10,
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Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel
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Fadgebadger Sweaty sumo wanks for everyone!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 13:25,
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I get banned from places if I do that
You could always explain why I am wrong and all the wonders that brexit will bring for the ordinary person who is not a cunt.
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My Name was saying these words inside your head on, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 20:42,
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Brexit is fucking stupid
I was merely trying to be funny*
*is not funny
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Fadgebadger Sweaty sumo wanks for everyone!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 21:52,
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Damn straight, I'm totally cross
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DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 13:36,
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Transporting more livestock in worse conditions to maximizer profits?
Make the UK a hub for animal testing?
Repeal the hunt bans?
Loads of ways to exploit the suffering of animals once the pesky EU are out of the picture
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HappyToast Groat froth, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 9:44,
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ah ok, yeah that makes sense
fucking depressing times
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sock more tea vicar?, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 9:46,
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I stocked up on bendy bananas before we joined the EU so I'm alright jack
(, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 10:08, Reply)
Pretty odd seeing as the same government is mandating CCTV in all slaughterhouses to stop animal cruelty.
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Draconacticus Reject shampoo. Demand real poo!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 10:13,
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That's mostly for the benefit of the anti halal brigade
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TownsendsPublisher is all gravy baby, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 10:51,
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I only shop in the pagan meat section where the sheep have died on honorable death on the field of combat.
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Draconacticus Reject shampoo. Demand real poo!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 10:55,
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Or those good christian sheep bludgeoned with crucifi
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TownsendsPublisher is all gravy baby, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 11:29,
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They should sell the CCTV of that rights to TV
EDIt: iOS 11 autocorrect is more inaccurate than iOS10.
PLus thart habit of changing sentence order AFTER I press enter is rapidly losing its charm.
(, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 20:00, Reply)
like this chap
www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/watch-beloved-pet-nibbles-viking-765002
(, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 11:41, Reply)
There must be more to this story.
If Ms Pickerill is correct in her assertion that Nibbles is feasting in Valhalla, he must have died in glorious combat.
I would like to know who Nibbles was fighting at his time of death. Otherwise this is just making a mockery of the whole system.
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Draconacticus Reject shampoo. Demand real poo!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 12:10,
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it's probably some highly esoteric form of neo-vikingism they're practising
It is Glastonbury after all
(, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 12:35, Reply)
It's an affront to continuity vikingism!
That hamster should be spinning on its wheel in Hel.
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Draconacticus Reject shampoo. Demand real poo!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 12:40,
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Glastonbury?
Then it will be some middle class white people who claim to be reincarnations of their favourite mythical character in order to wander around in a dress, when they are not being an accountant, waving some burning sage in your face and acting towards the sky the way a three year old does toward their dad.
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My Name was saying these words inside your head on, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 13:22,
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Nibbles was engaged in a heroic fight
with arthritis and diabetes.
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My Name was saying these words inside your head on, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 13:12,
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I'm not sure that's a ballad worthy death.
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Draconacticus Reject shampoo. Demand real poo!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 14:03,
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Well that'll be me then.
Anti Kosher slaughtering too.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 11:56,
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No more circumcised sausages!
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Draconacticus Reject shampoo. Demand real poo!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 12:12,
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It's also odd that this is making the news now rather than a week ago when it happened.
Especially when last night m.ps voted overwhelmingly to appose an amendment saying we would stay inside the customs union which I would think is bigger news.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 10:51,
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the fuck-ups are coming so thick and fast now it's difficult to scoff at them all in real time
(, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 11:43, Reply)
You're calling a democratic vote in parliament by representatives of the populous a fuck up?
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 11:59,
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Are you suggesting that being elected bestows infallibility?
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TownsendsPublisher is all gravy baby, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 12:02,
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in his head he's managed to conflate patriotism and bovine acquiescence
So any criticism of a decision is by extension an attack on the UK
(, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 12:11, Reply)
I'm saying that democratic votes by elected representatives is the fairest option.
Don't like how your representative votes? Get rid of them.
Although some would prefer a system of benevolent dictatorship.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 12:20,
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Only fairest in the current system, like having the nicest torturer
A system of proportional representation would be much fairer, especially if the law was changed to make your MP actually represent the public's views in parliament instead of just having to go to parliament with literally no further obligation.
Our local MP told us that she took an oath to represent us in parliament, literally she just has to be the person who represents us, she does not have to listen to our views or promote them in parliament in any way at all.
So the vote of our `representatives` in parliament has literally no connection to the concept of having our views as the public represented.
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My Name was saying these words inside your head on, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 13:18,
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Yes. They are fucking incompetent authoritarian assholes. You seem to confuse democracy with omniscience
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DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 12:08,
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All of them?
You have to wonder why they chose that career then. Certainly better paid professions to go into.
So what would you replace the system of parliamentary democracy with?
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 12:22,
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I'd replace it with me.
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Draconacticus Reject shampoo. Demand real poo!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 12:26,
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I've got no problem with the system in principle:
a) MPs are hugely underpaid. How do you attract anyone that is competent at anything for that salary (£75k)?
b) The party system forces people to toe the party line (unsurprisingly) so in order to be in power, you have to sacrifice a significant part of your identity to a machine that doesn't have the populations best interests at heart. The people who end up in significant positions in either Lab/Con are the best at fitting in with the party interests of the day
c) A huge number of the UK population are religious idiots when it comes to politics - Quite simply it doesn't matter the policies, the personalities or competence of "your" parties candidate, you'll vote for them to stop "the other one" getting in and you end up with unaccountably shite people in place that can't do their job
d) A good number of politicians have never had a "real" job, so literally can't relate to anything they are supposed to be making valid judgement calls on.
e) There's a significant number that don't go into politics to make things better, they go into it to get power, plain and simple.
Both main parties are populated with self-serving, delusional fucks and I don't see any incentive for the parties to change that in the short-term. So we're going to continue to lurch between crises and recessions for the forseeable future.
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DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 12:36,
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I'd really like to see a party that only selected candidates that are state school educated, send their kids to state schools and have no private medical insurance.
MPs should be customers of the services they are custodians of.
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Draconacticus Reject shampoo. Demand real poo!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 12:39,
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So those people that go to public school shouldn't have representation? What if they get in with a government assisted grant because they perform well at entrance exams? Wouldn't it be better to address the education system that means public schools continue to thrive, rather than introducing electoral segregation?
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DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 12:47,
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Nah, fuck em.
Public school chinless wonders are already over represented in anywhere of merit.
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Draconacticus Reject shampoo. Demand real poo!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 12:56,
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Proportional representation
so they should be about 0.1% of the members, being about 6 of them instead of 400 like it is now...
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My Name was saying these words inside your head on, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 13:24,
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6.5% Actually....18% if you count over 16's
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 13:34,
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There seems to be a myth that public schools aren't absolutely bloody everywhere, when they are, due to the shite state of well, the state.
Its also worth noting that 20 serving MPs are from Eton, not from public schools in general. What percentage of the population went to fucking Eton? You want to point at over-representation look there first.
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DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 13:40,
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State schools would improve pretty damn quick if MPs had to send their kids to them.
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Draconacticus Reject shampoo. Demand real poo!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 14:01,
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That's naive, the state run Grammar schools would simply improve further. Little Tarquin isn't going to be going to an inner city comprehensive.
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DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 14:40,
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Which would be terrible for kids that have talent but can't get a grammar school place because it's filled with wealthy parents sprogs
Well in favour of grammars so long is it's combined with free extra tuition to those kids that show talent so they can be taken out of the playground meat grinder.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 14:51,
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Only if Tarquin passes the entrance exam.
The thick rich kids will be snookered.
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Draconacticus Reject shampoo. Demand real poo!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 14:59,
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They'll just have to become US president or Foreign Secretary like other thick rich kids.
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DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 15:20,
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They should just accept the fact that
there aren't enough good teachers or clever children to go round.
So rather than every state school being terrible, and the few potential geniuses we have languishing somewhere that doesn't challenge them, we make more grammar schools.
(, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 15:08, Reply)
We could pay teachers the same as doctors or lawyers and make teaching something other than a altruistic vocation?
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DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 15:22,
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How little do you think teachers get paid compared to doctors?
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 15:41,
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The current average starting salary for a teacher is just over £19,000, after 10 years service, this reaches approximately £29,000. That's frankly disgusting. A top of their profession a Head Teacher can earn just over £100k ...and then they are stuck, there is no progression possible past that... except perhaps university chancellors, who are never actually teachers.
Starting salary for a junior doctor is £23,000 rising to £30,000 in four years. However the average salary for GPs is between 60,000 and 100,000 depending on location with specialists running to millions and millions.
Given the entry level for a fucking web designer out of uni is £23,000, why would anyone opt for the shit-show that is teaching? the crappy hours, the institutionalized staff and worst of all the kids. Ugh.
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DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 16:00,
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It's beyond me.
Teachers, nurses, policemen... all are getting priced out of home ownership in many areas when they face long hours of shite. Seems completely out of kilter with the jobs they do and their responsibilities.
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Draconacticus Reject shampoo. Demand real poo!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 16:10,
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They do not generate money directly
Unfortunately that is generally how the worth of the individual to the capitalist system is judged
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DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 16:27,
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Could always do something about the rapid rise in house prices.
Hell I bought my house 6 years ago and it's gone up in value by 71% for doing fuck all. And that's in Bedfordsire.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 16:28,
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Oh absolutely, there is a cost of living crisis fo shizzle in the country.
Seems so odd that growing up in the 80's that families could afford a 3 bed semi in a leafy suburb on one person's wages plus one holiday a year without working themselves to death.
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Draconacticus Reject shampoo. Demand real poo!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 17:36,
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There's probably lots of factors but one of them is people starting seeing property as an investment.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 17:45,
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I ask because I was mildly surprised having looked it up.
Where are you getting your numbers for teacher pay from?
NASUWT Teachers pay scale (Not including London)
Yes you can earn more if you become a Specialist or G.P.
Consultants do very well and a G.P gets around the same as a head teacher.
www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/doctors/pay-doctors
Also Doctors have to make life and death decisions under great stress.
Teachers have to stop little Jimmy from eating glue and make sure he knows his times table up to 10 x 10.
Now if you were to say Nurses pay then I would agree totally with you.
That needs to increased.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 16:26,
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I think you may be confusing a nursery school assistant with a teacher...or education has changed from my day.
Primary school is a slightly different kettle of fish, but I'm looking at the secondary school/college figures ..They are from 2014 though, so if they've gone up a bit since then, super!
However would I rather make a life and death call on someone than teach a room of 35+ uninterested borderline feral inner city teenagers who don't want to be there?? I know which would be way way more stressful for me. At least when you're at school you can get away with punching another student for being a dick, teachers are impossible saints.
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DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 16:33,
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On the face of it seems pointless to have apposed it no idea why they would.
Looks like it was split on party lines so very close and would have gotten through if a few more labour m.ps turned up.
www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=2017-11-15&number=40
Just had a quick google at the Animal Welfare Act 2006 and seems to cover a lot of things just not that animals have emotions or feel pain. The emotions thing I expect would depend on how developed the animal is but pain seems to be pretty universal.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 8:57,
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appose
verb
place (something) side by side with or close to something else.
oppose
verb
disagree with and attempt to prevent, especially by argument.
I was being a bit of a dick tbh.
(, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 12:28, Reply)
Some hot-headed ducks are going to to put those MPs in the microwave until their bill withers.
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Mudface The web isn't callipygian, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 8:59,
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It's a pattern of behaviour. See also the proposed scrapping of the human rights act.
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DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 12:09,
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It's a massively bullshit headline from the Independent though.
They haven't declared 'that animals cannot feel pain or emotions' will be written into the Brexit bill, just that the opposite won't be written in.
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joefish It's hard for thee to kick against the pricks, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 17:29,
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this is getting somewhat mis-understood
That animals can experience the sensation of pain is without question. What is not clear is whether that pain is perceived as a cognitive emotional experience. It is likely that higher orders (cats dogs monkeys etc) do indeed have pain cognition but it is hard to prove (though the studies are there). Still not a great day for animal welfare regardless of the politics
(, Tue 21 Nov 2017, 22:48, Reply)