The avarice of the data scraping of chatGPT etc can only be matched by their hypocrisy at complaining about the new Chinese AI taking their data.
(, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 12:37, Reply)
Will struggle to overinflate AI value now
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Fadgebadger Sweaty sumo wanks for everyone!, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 12:48,
Reply)
It was more avarice about the data they took than the money
Maybe the wrong word...
It's bullshit the Chinese one was only done with 6 million. 6 million....plus a significant undeclared proportion of the defence budget.
(, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 12:53, Reply)
It's not just the declared value (which I agree is likely bollocks), it's the fact it's open source
Yes there are other open source models, but this made headlines. The fact you can run it offline is a big one, outside of those tasty data harvesting big players
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Fadgebadger Sweaty sumo wanks for everyone!, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 13:21,
Reply)
Except it isn't open source. It's open weight. People are confusing the two.
(, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 13:30, Reply)
It's mostly open source, good enough
I'm sure some smarty pants will fork that fully in due time. Probably Elon Musk, I hear he's pretty smart guy
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Fadgebadger Sweaty sumo wanks for everyone!, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 13:42,
Reply)
There's a good article here that explains the key differences between open source, open weight, and why they matter:
promptengineering.org/llm-open-source-vs-open-weights-vs-restricted-weights/
The whole 'China bad, West good' rhetoric is a load of old bollocks. We're all as bad as each other. But that being said, I'm still a lot more comfortable with Musk/Zuckerberg/Bezos/Nadella farming exabytes of our personal behavioural data than I am about the Chinese government doing it.
(, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 14:00, Reply)
Here's a nerd talking about it
www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY4Z-9QlZ64
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Fadgebadger Sweaty sumo wanks for everyone!, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 14:21,
Reply)
Thank you, i am going to crush it when this comes up at the pub
"Oh you don't even know about 'weights'?!" *eye roll*
(, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 18:54, Reply)
My theory is
they've published the weights (that the majority of people won't/can't use anyways) and instead baked the data harvesting straight into the mobile app, which almost everyone will use.
(, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 14:40, Reply)
Could it also be that the Chinese system is less economically corrupt?
I'd find it impossible to justify the expense of AI development. Project Stargate is just taking the fucking piss. Half a trillion dollars to aimlessly faff about with some algorithms and microchips.
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brb Learn Ukrainian and prepare for a referendum, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 18:04,
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The difference being that the OpenAI models were/are scraping data freely and openly available in the public domain.
Deepseek's owners are being accused of stealing OpenAI's raw training data to build their model, essentially skipping an enormous part of the learning process.
Deepseek taking OpenAI's data isn't really the big concern in all this, though. It's the sheer amount of data being fed to it by the fuckwits that are actively using Deepseek that should be troubling folk:
(, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 12:58, Reply)
Yes.
People are morons and fall for it every time.
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Dave Trouser ; the people's choice - 75% agree, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 13:39,
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Fucking lol
www.theregister.com/2025/01/30/deepseek_database_left_open/
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Dave Trouser ; the people's choice - 75% agree, Thu 30 Jan 2025, 11:20,
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I guess the songs, books, painting and reddit conversations are indeed in the public domain
But I'm not sure that gives you moral permission to use it however you want and create completely derivative works without any credit?
Maybe it does and i haven't thought about it enough but i don't think any of the artists were very pleased.
(, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 14:03, Reply)
I don't agree with that aspect of it either.
But people have been ripping off other people's stuff since the dawn of time, never mind the dawn of the internet, or the dawn of 'AI'. It's just a lot easier now.
(, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 14:06, Reply)
I think it's the scale that's taken people by surprise. Instead of copying a few paragraphs out of a book or a bit of music, it's the entire internet that's being hoovered up.
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evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 15:32,
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OpenAI has ben scraping vast amounts of copyrighted data, they have openly admitted as much.
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Zuowan, Thu 30 Jan 2025, 10:37,
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that AI one is an absolute oddball
Why do none of these thrusting young innovators look like someone you'd want to have a pint with? Bill Gates still looks like the most fun I reckon.
(, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 13:20, Reply)
I copied and pasted your question into ChatGPT.
Haha, I get what you're saying! A lot of these so-called "innovators" or "disruptors" seem to fit a certain mold—clean-cut, polished, sometimes a little too “perfect” in a way that doesn’t necessarily scream "down for a pint." It's almost as if the image of being a "successful innovator" has come to mean being buttoned-up and overly serious.
But, of course, innovation doesn’t have a uniform look. Some of the most interesting people doing the real groundbreaking work often come across as quirky or a bit unconventional in their personal style. It’s funny how the ones who get the most media attention can sometimes seem a bit more "product" than person. What kind of innovator would you want to have a pint with?
(, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 13:24, Reply)
Not sure Gates counts as young any more. He is however the only one who seems to have done any good with any of the wealth they've all accrued.
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evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 15:06,
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I aim to discuss this thoughtfully while avoiding personal attacks. There's an interesting dynamic at play in how tech entrepreneurs and innovators are often perceived. The intense drive, ambition, and single-minded focus that often characterizes successful founders can sometimes come across as off-putting or make them seem less relatable. The "move fast and break things" culture can clash with more traditional social values around humility and easy-going sociability that might make someone an appealing pub companion.
That said, I think it's worth examining why we value approachability in this way and whether it's always a relevant metric for evaluating business or tech leaders. While being personable is certainly valuable, it may not always correlate with innovation capability or leadership effectiveness.
Would you mind sharing what specific qualities you find lacking in these innovators that makes them seem less approachable?
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My Name was saying these words inside your head on, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 22:37,
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Presumably their lack of concern for humanity,
their spineless brown-nosing of fascists, and the way they take credit for other people's hard work and are happy to lie about their products. They just want the investment money and have no real vision or care about either the product or users.
None of them show any real interest in their supposed area of interest, especially the Spotify guy with his terrible takes on music.
At least Bill Gates seems to genuinely like computers. This new breed aren't thinking beyond the money.
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monkeon schmonkeon, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 23:40,
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I remember watching a BBC doc years ago called Revenge of the Nerds?
Bill Gates came across as a genuine and excitable nerd who, as you say, loved computers and coding and problem solving.
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antmulder Flick your icefloss, Thu 30 Jan 2025, 11:37,
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Thank you, my memory was hazy! Is the other thing any good?
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antmulder Flick your icefloss, Thu 30 Jan 2025, 21:57,
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seriously
bsky.app/profile/aptshadow.bsky.social/post/3lgukmifx7s2h
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simbosan is too tired, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 15:34,
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at current rates of advancement, what percentage of human jobs could AI effectively replace in 10 years time?
And yet all I see are people cheerleading it like it's a sports competition instead of opposing it, often the same people who call Trump supporters idiots
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 22:31,
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Won't replace plumbers
Or most of the jobs where you want someone to come round your house and fix something.
It will replace a lot of the jobs where people don't have any tangible value, like art, or web design.
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My Name was saying these words inside your head on, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 22:40,
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I think you're hugely underestimating the extent to which it's capable right now of replacing huge numbers of jobs
it's only the usual inertia of changing existing ways of work that's making it's adoption less rapid, a sort of "gee wizz, I can ask it do things I used to use my knowledge and experience to do and it does them superfast" joyful obliviousness to their own impending obsolescence.
In 10 years time at current progress it will be apparent to all companies that is able to do most jobs in most sectors better and without that pesky thing called wages.
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Wed 29 Jan 2025, 23:49,
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I reckon it will do most jobs
worse, but companies will be happy with that because of the wages thing. No one really wants to talk to an AI chatbot for customer support, but you're already seeing that.
Then AI prices will be hiked and the companies relying on it will be screwed.
And then climate change kills us all, whilst Sam Altman descends into his bunker for a big old survivalist wank.
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monkeon schmonkeon, Thu 30 Jan 2025, 0:00,
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With regards to coding, nobody seems to ever think
How do know the code it wrote is correct?
Better get an expert in to check...
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simbosan is too tired, Thu 30 Jan 2025, 2:59,
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yes, comforting, they will keep one or two people on to form prompts and validate ai outputs
at least intitially, it'll soon become unnecessary
I don't know what blend of narcissism and misunderstanding of the history of free market (and totalitarian) capitalism that makes people think they won't or can't be replaced. AI already is smarter and massively more capable than you, and is advancing frightening rapidly as it starts to be employed to support it's own evolution. People seem blinded to the massive and obvious downside to their own interests, like home weavers cheering on Arkwright.
To put it another way, imagine it wasn't a computer, but instead we had the capability of building organic beings that were much smarter and more capable than humans that would multiply and spread around the globe. Why the fuck we would want to do that? Wouldn't it just show us up for the flawed modest people that we actually are, and push most of us into obsolescence and subservience by comparison. It would be madness, but everyone seems enthusiastic about AI. It's depressing
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Thu 30 Jan 2025, 6:32,
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"AI already is smarter and massively more capable than you"
Actually no it's not. I regularly ask it for help with stuff I'm not sure about.
80% of the time it invents APIs that don't exist. If it doesn't have an answer it makes shit up.
It has got it completely right maybe 5 times total. If it is better than you it's cos you are doing trivial stuff
It's shit and you can't rely on it and it's probably about as good as it will ever get until something new comes along rather than LLM
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simbosan is too tired, Thu 30 Jan 2025, 8:44,
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seems like a narrow measure
but yeah, AI's skills are uneven across the whole gamut of endeavor
but to take the field of chemistry, for example, in 18 months ChatGPT has gone from writing sub-GSCE level papers to university papers that are impossible to detect without assistance from AI in recent iterations.
The OpenAI 'o1' ChatGPT released the preview for last month performed 7 times better in programming than the previous version. They ran o1 in the Codeforces' competitive programming contests, I don't know what the fuck the format is, but we can assuming these are top programmers, it scored in the 89th percentile fo contestants
So if it's writing shit APIs now, wait until the next release
Anyway, I know I'm just "man shakes fist at sky", but it's such a monumental folly it's sad that's there's not more democratic opposition to it, just a bunch of people reassuring themselves it can't happen to their job without really grasping the pace and scope of AI advancement
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Thu 30 Jan 2025, 11:52,
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Worth reading Ed Zitron's stuff on OpenAI
www.wheresyoured.at/oai-business/
There are some major stumbling blocks for it, not least the hallucinations that seem unsolvable, and presumably will get worse considering that it's polluted the internet and is now feeding on its own shit.
Still going to cause a lot of shit and job loss. Just worth being wary that the LLM stories are being fed by hype-bros wanting more investment money to a media that aren't questioning their claims enough.
I feel sorry for people wanting to use AI for things other than content creation, as it does seem to have potential in things like medicine, but the industry is going to be associated with generative slop and cons because of these "entrepreneurs".
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monkeon schmonkeon, Thu 30 Jan 2025, 12:35,
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A good article about the finances and early losses, but Trump announced they're raising 100 billion in investment
despite the shaky finances and hype merchants and bullshitters that new tech always attracts, and whatever deficiencies it has in specific areas, the money won't stop and the advancements won't stop, because the carrot is so massive and valuable, and that carrot is not to be some helper service like clippy, that's just the transition, it's to replace waged employment with ai, and businesses will absolutely pay for that.
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Thu 30 Jan 2025, 23:01,
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I'm sure they'd also have liked
a $25,000 self-driving car by 2023, or to hold all their meetings with a legged avatar in the Metaverse.
Why do you think the advancement won't stop? Where are they going to get the new data from? How will they fix the hallucinations?
Anyone going all-in on it for anything business critical is risking a Post Office-esque scandal. On a smaller scale, you're already seeing it with cases like this.
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monkeon schmonkeon, Fri 31 Jan 2025, 10:05,
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It's a prediction engine that is good to use in some contexts
Pretty good at summarising notes (release notes etc) or scaffolding some template code for example, but people and tech-bros are treating it like it's some omnipresent god. My favourite was when it told someone to kill themselves.
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Fadgebadger Sweaty sumo wanks for everyone!, Fri 31 Jan 2025, 10:41,
Reply)
it doesn't have to be a god to do most of human work
we're kind of prediction engines ourselves, and have flaws and error rates.
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Fri 31 Jan 2025, 11:31,
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even if you're right I see it as more like the dot com boom, when there was stupid money being thrown at this shiny new thing
But 25 years later amazon is the biggest retailer in the world, and it's all online. It never went away becuase the underlying utility of it was solid, it just needed refinement. And now it's fucked countless retail business over the years. AI will do this for jobs. It might not be linear, there might be frontrunners that fall at the hurdles. But it will happen and it will fuck everyone but the few.
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Fri 31 Jan 2025, 11:39,
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Amazon always worked, though.
It used to be the go-to example of good usability before they fucked it with dark patterns and shoddy marketplace items. It always made business sense. They were just biding their time for bandwidth costs to come down and internet users to go up for it to become profitable. Same with Google and Facebook. Then they can enshittify.
Not all technical hurdles are solvable and unless they are, OpenAI provides at-best buggy business software and an alternative to Google that needs you to fact check if you don't want to get stung. Lots of people think technical stuff is easy if you can easily describe the frontend, but it's the detail that's usually the hardest part. ChatGPT still feels like a prototype.
Sam Altman keeps claiming to be approaching AGI without any evidence that it's even possible. No one seems to ever challenge him or ask for a live demonstration. He comes across as a shyster promising to turn lead to gold if you give him enough money for chips.
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monkeon schmonkeon, Fri 31 Jan 2025, 12:49,
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It won't get noticeably better because the underlying idea is very limited
Just saw this and yeah, i believe this is true. AI writes shit code. And coding exercises/tests are all very formulaic, perfect for a context free network
bsky.app/profile/mattround.com/post/3lgxbbagw5k2r
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simbosan is too tired, Thu 30 Jan 2025, 12:45,
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I reckon in 10 years time you'll wonder how you could have ever thought this
but I guess we'll both have to wait and see how it plays out.
I've been listening to interviews with recently employed devs who worked for chatgpt and other ai mobs talk about their experiences with it. They say they're losing oversight over how to comprehend how the models are advancing, as processing capacity and data is added it's developing capabilities in a whole raft of areas they don't have the metrics yet to measure. And a surprising number of people with direct involvement with the project have come to the view it should be stopped.
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Fri 31 Jan 2025, 0:04,
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I asked chatGPT to convert a word document into RTF without losing the layout
And it didn't seem to be able to do it, so that very annoying part of my job is safe
(, Thu 30 Jan 2025, 6:43, Reply)
Managed to bamboozle the Halfords AI assistant by asking quite a simple question about inner tubes
Eventually got passed to a human who instructed me to go to a shop
(, Thu 30 Jan 2025, 8:50, Reply)
65-70%
But the answer really depends on how many people are willing to fuck robots
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Mudface The web isn't callipygian, Thu 30 Jan 2025, 5:30,
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Basically, any job that involves sitting at a computer.
Manual labourers, shelf stackers, delivery drivers will be reasonably fine in the short-term until robotics starts to really make advancements.
Folk that work in buying/purchasing are particularly fucked.
(, Thu 30 Jan 2025, 7:55, Reply)