Next up: free hand jobs on a Friday
Just please vote for us? Pleeeeeeeeease?!?!?
Title:
Labour pledges free broadband for all
(, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 7:15, Reply)
I was going to post this last night before I went to bed but my internet connection went down.
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Prufrock Lucifer, son of the morning!, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 7:25,
Reply)
Hang on
I don't want to use BT, they're shit. We use Hyperoptic, because BT refused to put fibre into our building
What happens to the millions who use other providers?
What happens to those providers?
What happens to the people who work for them?
AHAHAHAHAHHAHA!
"A new entity, British Broadband, would run the network, with maintenance - estimated to cost £230m a year - to be covered by the new tax on companies such as Apple and Google."
They don't pay tax as it is. Why would they pay a new tax?
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evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 7:30,
Reply)
I hear this argument a surprising amount from the right, it's all a variation of this:
"you can't tax billionaires because they'll just avoid it"
I wonder if it's an idea deliberately circulated by the rich, or merely a defense adopted by those suffering from stockholm syndrome who now think they're one of them
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 13:08,
Reply)
I'm not saying you shouldn't tax them, far from it - I believe they should be paying their fair share.
What I'm saying is that every attempt so far has left us with them paying effectively fuck all and there's no reason to believe that any further attempts will go better. It looks more like a feel-good tax the evil corporations policy than one that could actually be implemented.
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evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 13:56,
Reply)
"every attempt so far", is that your understanding of history, is it? The 98% top marginal rates of harold wilson made people pay fuck all, did it? Because the right used opposite arguments then. Thatcher got in by telling people the rich being taxed too much stifled innovation
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 14:57,
Reply)
Howard Wilson taxed Apple and Google at 98% did he? Is this some alternate timeline I'm not aware of?
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evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 16:45,
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Maybe you shouldn't use pronouns if you have difficulty following the subject in an argument
If I make a point about about billionaires and the rich, and you respond to my point with "I'm not saying you shouldn't tax them, far from it - I believe they should be paying their fair share." one would naturally assume the pronoun 'them' related to billionaires and the rich, rather than google.
Consider this exchange:
Person 1: "I see a lot of dogs being walked"
Person 2: "Some of those female dog walkers are very fit"
Person 1 : "Yes, I would like to fuck them given the opportunity"
Does Person 1 want to fuck:
a) dogs?
b) women?
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Sat 16 Nov 2019, 2:29,
Reply)
Or, and hear me out here, we could use a real-world example from not too far away
Person 1) An attempt to tax these companies more is doomed to fail as every previous attempt has failed.
Person 2) You sound like you're saying I don't think we should tax them because something irrelevant about billionaires
Person 1) No, I'm saying these companies should be paying tax, but aren't, and they have ways of avoiding it.
Person 2) Something irrelevant about the 1970s.
Person 1) Huh?
Person 2) You used the wrong pronoun you big meanie. For some reason the example I'm going to use involves fucking a dog.
Anyway, it's clear you don't want to engage on any of my points, so I'll leave you with a quote from www.theregister.co.uk/2019/11/15/labour_pledges_free_broadband_via_partnationalisation_of_bt/
"This is a spectacularly bad take by the Labour Party. The almost cut throat competition between broadband rivals has meant faster speeds, improved coverage and lower prices for consumers up and down the country.
"The current government, and independent regulator Ofcom, have spent the last three years incentivising alternative operators to BT to deploy faster fibre technologies. Companies such as Virgin, CityFibre and others have committed billions to rival Openreach. Those plans risk being shelved overnight.
"Only one other country in the world has come close to going down this route, and for a good reason – it’s hard, expensive and fraught with difficulty. Australia’s NBN is years late, massively over budget and offering speeds and technology a fraction of the original political intention."
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evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Sat 16 Nov 2019, 14:52,
Reply)
unfortunately, the argument in your head is contradicted by the text that is there for all to see. Perhaps you have dyslexia, and in that case I apologise for bringing that to peoples' attention
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Sat 16 Nov 2019, 21:33,
Reply)
The super rich are the most internationally mobile
- so they can most easily fuck off to a shonky tax haven.
No, not all of them will, but by way of example, the massive tax rates of the 70s drove my Dad's company to set up a sales base on the Isle of Man to funnel all the profits through a low tax region.
Wevsee the same behaviours from lots of multinationals.
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Invisible Wizard - 12th Level Errorer, Sat 16 Nov 2019, 8:02,
Reply)
thing is
Lots of us have to pay BT for the line even if we don't want them as ISP. Which kinda kills the 'privatisation enhances consumer choice' arguments. Same with the bloody trains, if I get a poor service (as I invariably do), I can't just change 'provider'.
On the other hand, when I lived in an area I could get Virgin media I very much appreciated the choice. Know they have their detractors and Branson's a bit of a cunt but it was lightning compared to BT. Unlike most 3tans not everyone lives in a city with a comfortable wage though.
(, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 15:55, Reply)
You're talking to someone who was stuck with a BT phone line up until a year ago. Companies like Hyperoptic are filling these gaps in the market that BT are so obviously failing to do. It might be worth contacting a couple of them and seeing what it'd take to get them interested in your area.
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evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 17:01,
Reply)
Simple
Just make the tax smaller than the profit they make and any company in the world will take profit over no profit.
The argument against, which is made very regularly, seems to be along the lines that a company will not accept a smaller profit and will throw it away and have nothing because they cannot have a huge profit.
This is plainly bollocks.
Q: They don't pay tax as it is. Why would they pay a new tax?
A: To keep making profit and maintain control over a market in order to suppress competition.
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My Name was saying these words inside your head on, Sat 16 Nov 2019, 21:18,
Reply)
How much of home broadband use is truly essential?
How many businesess can't afford broadband?
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Mudface The web isn't callipygian, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 8:47,
Reply)
Finding a job without internet access is a bit tricky these days
Could go to the library but lots of them got shut so
(, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 16:14, Reply)
Where they say
"Look online"
Seriously have you ever tried to use a 'job' centre? Unless they've improved immeasurably since I had to and now let you get online there.
(, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 19:36, Reply)
Not been in one for a while,
but they do provide access to computers.
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Happosai _,,,,_(O ; o)_,,,, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 20:28,
Reply)
How do you find a Job Centre without Google Maps?
A library? Then how do you find the phone book? A librarian? Then how do you find the Street? An A-Z? Then how do you find the street? The Index? Huh? And how do you navigate there? Hnnnnn? A bus timetable at the stop and then go back to the a-z to fond which stops are near?
Sounds like a faff to me.
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gaijintendo Regular Member, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 19:46,
Reply)
Most people have an Internet-capable mobile phone these days with data as part of the call plan,
or free WiFi in a local pub or cafe.
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Happosai _,,,,_(O ; o)_,,,, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 20:31,
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Not if you get kicked out of your local pub and cafe for knocking one out in the cubicle
because you got greedy and put the volume up to help speed things up and a manager was in.
But you make a valid point.
1gb or throttled internet on your mobile for all? Are you allowed to tether with your phone? If not, mobile phones are not famous for their productivity. So maybe help encourage people to go back to the high street by having free wifi in every pub and cafe.
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gaijintendo Regular Member, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 20:51,
Reply)
Free public WiFi is a good idea
And people need to be educated about the productivity potential of their phones beyond WhatsApp
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Mudface The web isn't callipygian, Sat 16 Nov 2019, 4:57,
Reply)
I'm voting Conservative this year because I'd much rather be seen as a cunt than a fucking moron.
(, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 9:04, Reply)
fucking zing - want some ice for that?
I never thought I'd say it but I'm voting libdem. Caroline Lucas will landslide anyway.
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The Ann Coulter Fan Club Babylon is burning at, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 18:28,
Reply)
As long as it doesn't let a Tory win
Then great.
Not that it's any of my fucking business who you vote for... but voting Lib Dem to see a Tory elected is a tragedy.
(, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 21:17, Reply)
The really fun but is
that nationalisation of telecom providers isn't allowed under EU law.
They'd have to leave first.
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Tusk knows where you live, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 11:46,
Reply)
From "THE TREATY ON THE FUNCTIONING OF THE EUROPEAN UNION"
Save as otherwise provided in the Treaties, any aid granted by a Member State or through State
resources in any form whatsoever which distorts or threatens to distort competition by favouring
certain undertakings or the production of certain goods shall, in so far as it affects trade between
Member States, be incompatible with the internal market.
All it would take is one other telecom provider, not necessary from the UK, to take the government to court.
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Tusk knows where you live, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 20:41,
Reply)
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artifus is doing it all wrong, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 21:41,
Reply)
"distorts competition" being the important part there
Last time I checked, Deutsche Telekom were still state-owned, or at least in part. Same with the French and their trains.
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jonbob loves you, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 22:25,
Reply)
The state owns shares in the company. That's quite different from nationalisation.
As theoretically, any company could, and indeed does, compete with DT, or, over here, former state owned KPN.
Public transport is a whole different kettle of shit.
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Tusk knows where you live, Sat 16 Nov 2019, 0:11,
Reply)
A Government-run Internet connection?
Ooh, yes please...!
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Happosai _,,,,_(O ; o)_,,,, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 11:59,
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It'll last all of 10 minutes before being outsourced for Capita to fuck up
(, Fri 15 Nov 2019, 14:13, Reply)
So....
Do we all get a GEC router? What happens to all the staff of the other providers and their staff currently selling their services built on BT Openworld services and what happens when the IT staff go on strike for better pay and the entirety of the UK broadband network goes off for a week? Is Graham Linehan writing their manifesto for them?
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slartifartfast When all around are losing their heads, duck., Fri 15 Nov 2019, 14:53,
Reply)