Oh dear.
Ukraine war latest: Russian missiles hit Poland, killing two - reports - BBC News
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brb Monkhouse Stampede, Tue 15 Nov 2022, 20:21,
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Of course there's doubt. It's a war, information isn't clear.
Let's hope for the best, eh?
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brb Monkhouse Stampede, Tue 15 Nov 2022, 22:12,
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Sorry, probably should have been a little clearer.
I was mostly criticising the original BBC headline which appeared to categorically state that the missiles were Russian based on nothing but hearsay. They've really been slipping in recent years in regards publishing the kind of knee-jerk unsubstantiated reporting that you'd usually expect to find in The Sun/Daily Heil.
Either way, if they are indeed Russian, then I hope I can get my carpets fitted before the war kicks off. It'd be a real shame to have spent such a ridiculous amount of money renovating my new place just to be shipped off to Central Europe to die in a Soviet hellscape without having a chance to enjoy the fruits of my wallet.
If they turn out to be Ukrainian however, then I suspect we won't hear anything else about it ever again.
(, Tue 15 Nov 2022, 22:31, Reply)
the original BBC report said nothing of the sort
It reported the facts and poland's uncorroborated claim, it nowhere said "these are categorically russian missiles"
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Tue 15 Nov 2022, 23:02,
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they are russian missiles, that was already established by debris photos
it just wasn't established which side fired them. and that wasn't a headline as such, it was just one of many little ticks on the bbc 24 news feed, whose text mentioned the dispute. The feed itself reported the dispute quite accurately throughout the day and the various claims and sources from all the parties. There's no conspiracy here
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 8:23,
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Oh, please.
If the BBC reports 'Russian Missiles Strike Poland'. Don't tell me that the assumptions being made by the vast majority of the readership are not 'fired by Russia' as opposed to 'produced by Russia'. The headline scraped by brb's link is deliberately inflammatory.
(, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 8:43, Reply)
Oh come on. Just accept this one as a loss and move on. Nobody ever leads a headline like that with who made it, only who owned it. If they meant Russian-made missiles, they'd have written that.
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evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 10:29,
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i admit it's ambiguous, I'm just putting it in context.
i did a search for this and only got a single hit from a BBC news blog feed sandwiched within 11 pages of about 70 updates like this in the last 12 hours, with the other hit being swagatha himself. and the blog feed reporting early updates identifying the debris as russian missiles but stating both ukraine and russia use them, at. It was a good and accurate news blog.There was nothing at all during the course of the day that suggested the BBC were taking a view or got it wrong, they were reporting on what the different factions were claiming.
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 12:57,
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What carpet have you gone for?
something to match your bed?
Maybe lino would be a better choice
(, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 8:41, Reply)
Ah yes.
The conflict is a battle between democracy and autocracy, between liberty and repression, between a rules‐based order and one governed by brute force. Any attempt to suggest that Ukraine's integrity is as questionable as Russia's would be tantamount to treason, right?
(, Tue 15 Nov 2022, 22:36, Reply)
you're allowed to make arguments, swaggy, justifying the russian invasion of a sovereign nation and its horrible consequenced
you just don't make very good ones
you also seem to take seriously and even sympathetically the kind of russian propaganda and claims that most people dismiss as stuff even Chemical Ali would have second thought about saying. The denazification, what is it now? Desatanization? and what not
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Tue 15 Nov 2022, 23:25,
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Cool straw manning.
I've never suggested the war in Ukraine was justified in any way whatsoever. However, the tiresome reverence of Zelensky as some kind of Churchill-esque war hero and shining beacon of democracy and liberty is a little hard to swallow. The guy is a crook and all this 'wE sTaNd WiTh UkrAiNe" flag wavery is for the most part nothing more than brb level virtue signalling. Never mind the standing ovations he gets from our glorious world leaders (who know fine well how much of a cunt he is) every time he pops up on a video call.
Both countries are sociopolitical shitholes and although that in no way gives any credence to Putin's actions, I suspect there's going to be a whole lot of Afghanistan-style backpedalling to come in the next few years when we realise that the country that we've been flooding with munitions for the last year or so is basically just as bad as Russia itself.
I hope Putin's latest push is unsuccessful, but only because I don't think the fuckwit needs any more land or power than he already has. Fuck Ukraine, though.
(, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 6:25, Reply)
I don't think it's strawmanning, i distinctly recall you buying into the denazification stuff and attempting to justify it
ah found it b3ta.com/links/1583960#post1583976 you probably entertained the batshit mental justification longer than the russians did, havent heard them mention it for months.
Anyway, there's a difference between healthy skepticism and partisanship, Musks deleted tweet about pelosi's husband being a good example if you're struggling to tell the difference. you think you're independent but christ you sound a lot like one of the neocons that followed trump down his pro-putin rabbithole and rather than shift gears when he invaded instead desperately sought any bullshit rumour to excuse his expansionism, like that fuckstick carlson.
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 10:12,
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I'm terribly sorry,
but i can't seem to find anything posted there by myself that suggests that I feel Russia's actions are justified. Perhaps you could screenshot it, or directly quote the bit that you're referring to?
Claiming that Ukraine is a far-right shithole =/= justification of an invasion.
(, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 10:49, Reply)
like i said, it's like Musk just happening to "suggest theres more to this than meets the eye" then linking to some baseless conspiricy nonsense
You dont say "Putin is right"
Putin makes up the bullshit denazification pretext, as if the fucking russians would give a shit, Putin regular murders critics and jails opposition and acts like a gangster, if hitler walked in the door putin would offer him a job. yet Swaggy just by coincidence think the ukrainians are nazis, and let me quote you about the ukrainians "I use the term 'Nazi' in its most literal sense.". But no, he's not saying he supports Putin. At least not here he's not
Even in this post you're suggesting ukraines integrity is questionable, something that just happens to align with putin's claims. And you pipe up anytime anybody says something positive about the ukraine. If you're not pro-russian you do a convincing impression of someone who is. And now you're saying zelensky is a crook? By what metric? Before the war he already was well on his way to becoming their best president ever, an admittedly low bar on their recent history..But he reformed the constitution for fair referendums, got rid of immunity from prosecutions, and removed a lot of the power of the oligarchs to profit from the privatisation of state assets, not bad for 12 months in power. Now he's fended of an attack by a neighbouring superpower and tireless tried to raise and keep foreign support with 6 million of his citizens homeless, thousands dead and most of the country without power going into winter. So what precisely is it you hate about him, apart from him being jewish?
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 13:33,
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This is clearly an extremely emotional issue for you.
www.cato.org/commentary/whitewashing-ukraines-corruption
Hold on, now I don't like Zelensky because he's Jewish? Are you just pulling random statements out of your arse now, cummy?
(, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 13:41, Reply)
you think posting some koch brothers financed commentary tosh is persuasive? the same fucker who bankrolled trump? Christ swaggy
it just highlights what poor sources you use to inform yourself, even as you hang shit on the BBC. It's always the way with conspiricy theorists. They bitch abut the lying MSM but when you dig deeper they get their version of reality from much worse places, not better ones.
the article mentions no charge or claims against zelensky, and quotes some index a few years before zelensky came to power, ignoring the fact that zelensky himself was voted in specifically for his promises to deal with corruption of previous governments, that why they went with a comedian with no political experience, and had already made a lot of the reforms he promised. It mentions some scandal in 2014, again, nowt to do with him. And frames his media reforms as repression without ever mentioning that the law itself was one against disinformation, something the UK is in dire need of. the rest is just a lot of sour grapes at his worldwide popularity that you seem to share. Again, you said he was a crook? what precisely to do you mean by that
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 14:02,
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So nothing in that article I linked is accurate? Is that what you're suggesting?
Sowwy if I owfended youw poow sensibiwities.
So, tell me. How do you come to the conclusion that I'm anti-semite? I'd love to hear that one. Pretty big accusation to make.
(, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 14:08, Reply)
the whole premise of the article us false, it's a very poor article trying to fashion a hit piece by association
nobody's whitewashing Ukrainian corruption, least of all zelensky. he came to power specifically by acknowledging it and promising a reform agenda to deal with it, which he followed through with. you seem to hate him and call him a crook without being able to articulate any claim against him other than like the author you resent the global esteem he's held in. your antisemitism is just by process of elimination, though concealing a strong pro-putin stance would be an alternative explanation for your antipathy
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 14:49,
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I hear you're an anti-semite now, Swagatha.
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brb Monkhouse Stampede, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 18:59,
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The contrarian foxhole is nice and easy and comfy
Requires little thought, just maintain an illusion of world weary superiority and you're gold
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simbosan is too tired, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 4:52,
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Or, use some critical thinking
and avoid being spoon fed propaganda and knee-jerk social media reporting until the facts are better established. Whatever works for you, I guess.
(, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 7:49, Reply)
But, but social media isn't a slave to the MSM AGENDA
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Turtle Power & Knuckles, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 12:56,
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Not "Oops, sorry, we missed."
But "Fuck you, you did it to yourselves so you could have an excuse to attack us."
You know, back in the 90s I was so happy when Ukraine gave away its nukes. :(
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Invisible Wizard - 12th Level Errorer, Tue 15 Nov 2022, 22:17,
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It's reportedly a missile system used by both Ukraine and Russia,
neither side is making particularly helpful statements about it right now.
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brb Monkhouse Stampede, Tue 15 Nov 2022, 22:34,
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Which seems more likely?
EDIT: Well, thank fuck for that - looks like it was a miss from the Ukrainian defence system.
And now it's dropped off the front page of the news sites - "Nearly Armageddon" isn't as important as the price of milk.
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Invisible Wizard - 12th Level Errorer, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 6:47,
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Understandable, really.
Doesn't really fit the narrative if you can't blame Russia for it.
(, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 14:04, Reply)
At the time
both the Russians and the Ukrainians were making hysterical noise. I hate to be a 'both sides' kind of prick, but both sides' instinct was to dishonestly claim the event to fit their own agenda.
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brb Monkhouse Stampede, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 15:14,
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Well, yes, but only one side here is an invading aggressor
- run by an election-rigging personalty-cult dictator, making nuclear threats.
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Invisible Wizard - 12th Level Errorer, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 18:37,
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True.
Both sides appear quite eager to escalate, though. We do not want to blunder ourselves into world war 3.
Thank fuck there are cool heads prevailing in Poland. Imagine what the outcome could have been if the missiles had hit Hungary.
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brb Monkhouse Stampede, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 18:55,
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Yeah, it's hard to see how NATO can help any more without a massive escalation
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Invisible Wizard - 12th Level Errorer, Wed 16 Nov 2022, 21:46,
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Funny coincidence, or was it
m.youtube.com/watch?v=pwXZcT4b5BU
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FeralCatMan Unusual disease collector., Thu 17 Nov 2022, 2:01,
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I don't trust his journalism at all. What does he say?
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brb Monkhouse Stampede, Thu 17 Nov 2022, 2:24,
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If you take the latitude part of the coordinates for Kyiv and longitude part of the coordinates for Lviv, the resulting location is 7km from the impact.
So it is an error by Russia.
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FeralCatMan Unusual disease collector., Thu 17 Nov 2022, 3:24,
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7km is a pretty poor accuracy even by Russian standards.
I’m calling that a coincidence.
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wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Thu 17 Nov 2022, 14:15,
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Whatever, it looks like an accident.
There doesn't seem to be a target in the vicinity worth attacking by either side.
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FeralCatMan Unusual disease collector., Thu 17 Nov 2022, 14:39,
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It could be someone trolling Denys.
By matching a conveniently nearby coordinate with plausible towns.
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FeralCatMan Unusual disease collector., Thu 17 Nov 2022, 20:42,
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He reports false stuff, which is why I stopped watching him.
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brb Monkhouse Stampede, Thu 17 Nov 2022, 22:38,
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He is unreliable and too personally invested.
This little conspiracy theory (as he admits) was from the comments.
I was hoping for more local background and insights as a pilot.
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FeralCatMan Unusual disease collector., Thu 17 Nov 2022, 23:06,
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