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This is a question Why will you burn in hell?

Repent ye sinners - Tell us about a dreadful thing you've done that means you'll burn in hell.

(, Thu 12 Jul 2012, 14:02)
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Don't worry peeps - here's why it's not real!
I have a very vivid memory of when the whole religion thing lost this sheep. Having been raised by irish catholics, sent to actholic schools from the age of 4, only really socialising with other catholics, hell was a terrifyingly real concept. As silly as it sounds I remember so many nights crying myself to sleep with thoughts of the concept of an eternity of pain (trying to visualised eternity is pretty overwhelming, especially when you're 7).

Fast forward to year 9 religious studies class (compulsory, and not the open minded sort of rs where you learn about other religions. This was memorising the bible and the catechism teachings about everything important - and everyone pissing off the teacher by declaring their support of abortion and euthanasia.)
So one sunny day we had to spend the whole fudging hour learning 3 words: Omnipotent, Omniscient, Benevolent. Half an hour repeating the words and their definitions, half an hour discussing the implication of that.
Basically it was:
1. God is all powerful. Everything happens because he/she makes it happen.
2. God knows everything. Everything that has ever happened or will ever happen.
3. God is all good. Will never do anything without good intentions.

And that's how a catholic religious studies teacher in a very catholic school accidently convinced me that all of religion is just logically wrong.

If God is all of those things then Hell makes f**k all sense!
For example, if you're going to say that gay people go to hell, then by this logic God made them gay. God created them that way, and knew in advance that they would be gay and would have lots of bum fun. But then why do that if God only wants good for people and is going to then send that person to an eternity of pain for doing what they were made to do and which they apparently had no part in - cos everything is by God so it's his choice for them to be gay. And you can apply that to everything.

Or a more recent example that made me want to vomit. (you may have seen this in the news) - basically a 12 yr old girl in Brazil was raped by her stepfather and got pregnant with twins. She had to have an abortion, because aside from anything else, 12yr old bodies can't handle a double pregnancy. So logically (and very morally) the catholic church excommunicated the girl's mother and all doctors involved. They said the stepfather had done somthing bad but was worthy of forgiveness. What the fudge sort of God would KNOW that would happen, MAKE it happen, and then agree with the decision that those trying to protect the girl were the evil ones?! If I needed a final push to renounce Catholicism that was it right there. Maybe I'll write to Pope Benedict and inform him of this...

I haven't got a problem with people being religious, but people threatening to send other people to hell bother me to a rather extreme extent. This logic doesn't prove there's not a God (I'm open to the concept of that) but it does make organised religion seem basically messed up.
(, Tue 17 Jul 2012, 21:19, 16 replies)
A benevolent God at fault?
See also:
Why does He allow famine, plague, poverty and war to continue?
Why did He allow the mass killings in Holocaust, Rwanda and Cambodia?
Why does He allow deformity, congenital disease, blindness, mental handicap etc etc. The list goes on.

Anyone with real conviction in their faith has already considered all of the above, and then made a judgement to accept the concept of a divine being for other reasons.
(, Tue 17 Jul 2012, 21:34, closed)
I hate to break it to your 13 year old self,
but I'm pretty sure that religious scholars have already considered this, and the answer was "free will".
Besides which, did you never read The Old Testament? God is not so much benevolent and forgiving, and more like a petulant toddler, who's been allowed to play Grand Theft Auto by his disinterested parents.
(, Tue 17 Jul 2012, 22:07, closed)
Free will being irrelevant if God is omnipotent.

(, Tue 17 Jul 2012, 23:16, closed)
No, it isn't.
Or are you suggesting that an omnipotent being would be incapable of granting free will to his/her/its creations?
(, Tue 17 Jul 2012, 23:42, closed)
Why are you arguing about free will
if God has erectile dysfunction.
(, Wed 18 Jul 2012, 1:13, closed)
As an all powerful being,
I'd imagine that god both does and does not have trouble getting it up, as the mood takes him.
(, Wed 18 Jul 2012, 9:34, closed)
he's got the ultimate get out card there, I suspect.

(, Wed 18 Jul 2012, 17:15, closed)
Immovable object, meet irresistible force
Enough free will do do something that an omnipotent God can't prevent and an omniscient God can't foresee?
(, Wed 18 Jul 2012, 9:45, closed)
Being omniscient and omnipotent
would neither oblige nor compel any sort of supreme being to intervene to prevent "bad stuff" from happening.
This is fairly elementary theology, and not something that has passed the world's religions by. Talking in logical fallacies isn't going to progress the debate any.
(, Wed 18 Jul 2012, 12:22, closed)
And, indeed, omniscient - since he would know the consequences of the freely made decisions
(putting aside the problem that "omniscient" logically precludes the notion of free will entirely)
(, Wed 18 Jul 2012, 9:51, closed)
no it doesn't. Not in the slightest.
Just because I can see you wanking doesn't stop you wanking now, does it?
(, Wed 18 Jul 2012, 17:00, closed)
I feel your pain.
I was a protestant who went to a Catholic primary school. Fun? No, not really. But ever since the age of ten I've never really cared for the opinions of an elderly transvestite.
(, Tue 17 Jul 2012, 22:43, closed)
Also, I know as a society we swear too much
but please can you not substitute 'fudge' for 'fuck' as it makes you sound like you're wearing a twinset.
(, Wed 18 Jul 2012, 9:12, closed)
people who use the word 'peeps'
Written and/or spoken should be forced to read the daily mirror - daily!
(, Wed 18 Jul 2012, 11:21, closed)
Glossing over the fact that, as double-m points out, this has been covered to death by teenage faux-philosophers and scholars alike already
The simple answer (or at least, what might be considered the religious get-out clause) is that you entirely misunderstand what is meant by omnipotence, omniscience and benevolence in regard to a god.

Omnipotence in the form you believe it to be, after all, is impossible, even if you believe in a beardy sky wizard. Take the challenge - "i want you to create an object so heavy you can't pick it up"

Can't do it? well, you aren't omnipotent. Can do it? ah, well, you can't pick it up, so you aren't omnipotent either.

Christian scholars will tell you that your mistake in the above is to ascribe human meanings incorrectly. Or, that the definition of divine omnipotence is that God can do anything that it is in his nature to do.

Ditto ominscence and benevolence.

If you want to see the scholarly version of your explanation above, it's David Hume "the problem of evil" that you're looking for. But it won't make a jot of difference to Christians, who quite rightly say the entire premise for this being a logical fallicy is flawed to start with.

Not that I believe in God, mind you. Just some philosophers are every bit as much cocks as the church.
(, Wed 18 Jul 2012, 17:13, closed)
I never could quote my sources.
I'll just cite you, in future.
(, Wed 18 Jul 2012, 23:36, closed)

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