Fabrication
In my youth I firmly believed that a university degree would give me an advantage in life.

Turns out it sets you back three years of earnings potential and you just drink a lot of watered-down beer.

Glad that myth has finally been busted though :-)
(BinDipper, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 9:15, 40 replies)

Perhaps you should have done a degree in a proper subject at a proper university.

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 9:17, closed)

By "proper subject" I take it you mean law followed by ten years of 24 hour days?
Because if you don't for every graduate you point to I'll show you someone earning more who never went to university.
In fact the reason I mentioned law is because of the richest people I've met the only ones I've met for whom a degree got them at least part of the way there have been lawyers.
That said, most of the really interesting jobs seem to require a degree, so if money's not your thing a degree is certainly worth it.
(Me, I'm not... in any way intoxicated, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 9:41, closed)

What a sack of old shite.
Degrees in maths, sciences, engineering and medicine all pretty much guarantee higher earnings.

Get away from me with your dirty dirty facts and figures.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 9:50, closed)

This is somewhat unreliable, though.
On the assumption that the people who get degrees are, on the whole, the most capable, we'd expect them to be the higher earners anyway - degree or not. It's not at all clear that having a degree makes you more likely to be a high earner: it's at least as likely that being likely to be a high earner makes you the sort of person who'll have a degree.

I'm unstinting in my support for the idea of higher education for its own sake; but the employment argument is a crock, and degrees have become massively fetishised. There's absolutely no reason to suppose that, careerwise, a degree makes you any better off than a decent apprenticeship system would.

This applies - at least substantially - to the white-collar world as well, of course: what are the clinical years of a medical degree (and the house year) if not an apprenticeship?
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 10:08, closed)

I don't disagree with any of that.
The previous post is a crock of old shite.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 10:14, closed)

Just to chip in,
there is a giant graduating in that article. Awesome.
( Pig Bodine., Fri 20 Jan 2012, 10:16, closed)

Haha.

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 10:23, closed)

I think that just means if you have a degree you're more likely to not take a very poorly paid job.
Perhaps because you're generally harder working or the intelligence which allowed you to get a degree helped you get on in you job.
If you take minimum-wage for life people out of the equation I doubt the spread would be so pronounced.
I base my figures on job adverts and people I know though so I'm not about to claim I know better -- it is just my opinion.
Oh, and I am very much pro education.
(Me, I'm not... in any way intoxicated, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 10:53, closed)

Well at least you have the humility to concede that your previous post was a crock of shite.

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 10:58, closed)

On the contrary.
For an individual I still claim that a degree makes little difference to your earning potential.
(Me, I'm not... in any way intoxicated, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 11:01, closed)

I was being sarcastic.

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 11:06, closed)

Why should I concede something that is not true?
If you have the intelligence and/or resources to get a degree then you have the intelligence and/or resources to get a good job. That much would expect to be true. However, whether or not the degree would get you a higher earning job in that position is certainly not an easy call.
If you want the really big bucks then I am sure there are as many multi-milionaires who didn't use a degree as part of making their millions as there are who did.
The figures you quoted don't prove cause and effect.
(Me, I'm not... in any way intoxicated, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 11:21, closed)

See this:
"By "proper subject" I take it you mean law followed by ten years of 24 hour days?
Because if you don't for every graduate you point to I'll show you someone earning more who never went to university."

This is a crock of shite. I don't mind if you're a bit insecure and don't feel able to admit that it's a crock of shite. It's probably got something to do with the fact that you did a shit degree and have a mediocre life and resent other people their success.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 11:26, closed)

Nope.
I just know graduates and non graduates in similar roles and have also noticed that advertised graduate roles don't seem to pay more than other skilled roles.
The law comment was a little facetious because they're a group who spring to mind who do earn more and need a degree to do so. I know there will be three figure salaries in science and maths but Ive seen nothing to suggest that a degree in science or maths will guarantee that kind of earning potential.
For example if you want to earn a little more than an average graduate seems to me you could do so by takkng a vocational qualification or learning an equivalent skill.
For the record I'm both a non-graduate and a failure -- because I don't have what it takes to get a degree or a career.
(Me, I'm not... in any way intoxicated, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 11:48, closed)

tl;dr
Still a crock of shite.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 12:02, closed)

Which bit and why?
You haven't said yet.
(Me, I'm not... in any way intoxicated, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 12:16, closed)

The whole post.
Honestly ... I'm really not sure why you're banging away at this particular drum. Either you care because you have a chip on your shoulder about your lack of success ... or you're just arguing for the sake of it. I'm not sure at what point you are expecting it to become either endearing or engaging.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 12:37, closed)

Yet your only argument against it were zome irrelevant figures with selection bias.
I think you have an old fashioned view of things is all.
(Me, I'm not... in any way intoxicated, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 12:59, closed)

My only argument was that it's a crock of shite.

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 13:24, closed)

I think I've just come.
Either that or I've burst another abcess.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 14:51, closed)

Perhaps you've just broken a crock of shite.

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Sat 21 Jan 2012, 9:14, closed)

^What this blithering asshole said^
I did a Mickey Mouse degree in a Mickey mouse subject, am far worse off from it, and had the time of my life - more recreational drugs, casual sex, and deep conversations about Fighting The System than you could shake a stick at.

And some of those hippy chicks are VERY open-minded. Brilliant stuff. Stop moaning, you lob.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 9:47, closed)

you went to disneyland?

( Ya What Skiddlyboop, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 9:49, closed)

and had the time of my life - more recreational drugs, casual sex, wanking and deep conversations about Fighting The System than you could shake a stick at.
( The Mock Turtle ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 9:50, closed)

at disneyland?!

( Ya What Skiddlyboop, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 9:51, closed)

You've never been to university
AICMFP.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 9:55, closed)

i've never been to disneyland...

( Ya What Skiddlyboop, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 9:59, closed)

Yes. That's because you're not allowed within 200 yards of any children.

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 10:00, closed)

why would children go to university?

( Ya What Skiddlyboop, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 10:03, closed)

To see Mickey Mouse, perhaps?
Duh.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 10:05, closed)

well that's that then.

( Ya What Skiddlyboop, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 10:13, closed)

I'm with you, on this.
Although I did meet my spouse at university, I don't have much else to show for it (other than some debt, and a slightly higher tolerance for alcohol).
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 9:24, closed)

I got around this problem by setting my life's goal to being as big a bum as possible.

As such, I don't regret my several stints at university or the years spent dossing in enjoyable dead-ends, but consider my current tedious, serious office job a waste of time
(cs1ca, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 9:45, closed)

If nothing else, I consider the friendship of the people I went to university with a huge advantage
As I now know a bunch of accountants, lawyers, doctors and people who do shady arms deals with the Saudis - most of whom have wanted some web work or tech support at one time or another, and consequently owe me favours that I can reel in should I need help with my tax return, my collar being felt, that awkward lump on the small of my back or those cruise missiles I've got stashed away
( emvee cruor deo cruoris, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 10:01, closed)

PhD or GTFO for many things these days.

( Colonel Boris "...a desperate Buzzfeed imitation...", Fri 20 Jan 2012, 10:12, closed)

I'm totally getting GTFO put on my business cards.

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 10:58, closed)

you want to be known as the alternative to tits?

(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 11:09, closed)

There are worse things to be known as.

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 11:28, closed)

"Dr Shambolic - like tits for gays"

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 11:39, closed)

Maybe it's not all about the degree.
I went to University as a mature student. I needed to go just to prove to myself that I could. The whole experience gave me the confidence I needed to pursue my "dream" career. I couldn't have achieved any of that without the suport of the University professors who believed in me, even when I didn't.

Just saying, like.
(Woofie, Fri 20 Jan 2012, 21:17, closed)