education, education, education
As some of you may know, I have recently finished my PhD, which was in itself one of the bigger letdowns of my life, but the real disappointment is now.

I have spent 21 years of my life in education in the UK (ok, so not all of it was technically studying, (see here), but still). Now, when I finally have a qualification which is of any use to me, I thought, 'Great! I can get the job which has been promised to me by the media after all of this time learning!' You know, the usual 'Graduates earn more' 'Everyone should go to university says incompetent government' etc etc. So since January, I've been applying for jobs in the UK. Postdoctoral research, research assistant, college teacher, college lecturer, pharmaceutical company jobs. I've had 14 interviews face to face and 5 phone interviews (within the UK). How many job offers did I get? Yup, that's right, fuck all. The reason was either 'you're too highly educated' or 'you don't have enough experience'.

I thought it must be my interview technique, or my appearance, or my lack of a Y chromosome, but after getting feedback from 3 or 4 of the interviewers who I trusted, it turned out that they wanted me to have either at least 5 years postdoctoral research experience OR no PhD. This is for entry level (i.e low salary) positions.

I then had a phone interview of 1 hour with an eminent researcher in the USA. At the end of which he offered me a perfect (postdoc) job. So I'm leaving London today, and in a couple of weeks I'll be starting a job in America. But where the hell are all the UK jobs?!
I know of at least 5 folk (relatives and friends) who have recently graduated with good degrees who are either having to take jobs with very low pay, unrelated to their degree, or in another country. 2 of them only went to uni because their school told them it would earn them more money in the end.

*goes off in huff at stupid UK education propaganda*
( ascorbate, Fri 27 Jun 2008, 12:07, 23 replies)

Quite so.
I finished my studies when I was just about 27. I then spent three years on about £3000 per year from teaching where I could find it. They forgot to pay me once, for a period of several months. I never noticed the difference.

I promised myself that, if I hadn't found a minimum wage job by the time I was 30, that was it. I was entering the real world. Thankfully, I just made it: I finally got a job a few months before that milestone. But I'm still not on a permanent contract.

The academic wheel is great once you climb aboard - but while you're still trying to get that first job, it's hell. You can't get a job because you haven't got the publications. You haven't got the publications because they require journal and library access... which you haven't got because you haven't got a job.
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Fri 27 Jun 2008, 12:15, closed)

@vitamin c
Congrats on the job.
I was dole scum for 2 years after my degree ended, and then I got a job in a call centre. *shrugs*
( Boss Keloid Got your mother's maiden name tattooed on my arm, Fri 27 Jun 2008, 12:20, closed)

I hold a 2:1 in English Literature.
on exiting university, I was forced to temp for two years. Then I worked in a bowling alley. I then did a low-end publishing job for six months before I finally managed to get into an 18 year old's starting IT job at the age of 26.

I'm now 28 and I'm still earning well below what I really ought to be.

Had I left school and followed the same career path, I'd now be on about half again as much pay.

Any child of mine is only going to university if there's a real benefit. All this wishy-washy "graduates earn more on average with unspecified, vague city jobs and no we're not going to cite our references" just ends up putting you three or four years behind.

NO job wants an Arts grad.

/bitter.
( Kroney, Fri 27 Jun 2008, 12:21, closed)

Took me 7 months..
to get a job related to my degree, so I know your pain! I got lucky with the job I got (right time, right place), had I not have got it I suspect I'd maybe be in your situation now.

Will have been in my job 3 years in October, most jobs I looked at require a minimum of 3 years experience, so should at last open some more doors!

A friend of mine has a 1st class degree in Biology but he works in a lab getting paid poorly. His previous job was turning chicks over at a chicken factory...
(Bad_Dogg, Fri 27 Jun 2008, 12:21, closed)

And
a friend of mine left his well paid pharma job to do a PhD - 3 years later, desperate for any job going, he ended up back in his old job. On a slightly higher salary. The guys he had been working with before are all earning well more than he does, so he has calculated that in terms of yearly salary alone, he's about £5000 worse off due to his PhD, and much worse off in terms of lost savings, pension, etc etc.

we're not bitter, honest.
( ascorbate, Fri 27 Jun 2008, 12:26, closed)

I didn't go to Uni,
didn't even finish college. I'm currently earning £20k per annum in a dead-end, brain-numbing, soul destroying job, and it's taken a hell of a lot of hard work to get here.

Those of you with degrees will be grateful when you hit your thirties, I'll be trying to fight my way through a glass ceiling, but you'll have the experience and qualifications that matter. Please remember to wave as you pass me on the corporate ladder.
( Bert Monkeysex is waiting for the mods to delete him, Fri 27 Jun 2008, 12:27, closed)

I remember when I walked out of my viva with a straight pass
I thought the world would suddenly change, people would have respect for me, and the offers would come flooding in.

Absolutely nothing happened. I was no different.

The highlight was - upon showing my thesis (an old school two volumes job (argument + data)) to my mum for the first time, all she could muster was "that must have taken years" - yes, mother it did. I think the whole concept just passes the majority of people by...
(dxg, Fri 27 Jun 2008, 12:41, closed)

I did a maths degree.
Many of the people on the course went into very high paying jobs.

I went off to do a masters in Computer Animation then spent two years in the wilderness.

I've now had this job for two years but I'm still earning less than the starting salaries of my fellow maths graduates and I'm 4 years salary and £10000 poorer.

But I wouldn't have it any other way.
( chenobble rocking his explorer beard on, Fri 27 Jun 2008, 12:50, closed)

I got my degree
In zoology, and a year later (almost exactly), here I am working health and safety and graphic design.

I actually handed in my notice yesterday, to go to another graphic design job, for a little bit more money (50p more an hour, woo!).

So yeah... Can't see my degree being of any use, ever.
( Cawl, Fri 27 Jun 2008, 12:53, closed)

Some on last week's QOTW said...
Something like "learn a trade or profession as early as you can", and I have to say that I agree with them completely. Well...

Mostly - for the 75% of people (and I include myself in this) who basically what to get by, provide for their families, and have a relatively secure income - this is the best advice. I should have taken it myself, and I'm only realising this 13 years too late. You won't get rich, but unless you're unlucky, you won't die of starvation. However, you might just die of boredom - you have to chose what's best for you.

I didn't do this, but through luck, hard work, and shrewd moves, I'm currently seem to be getting paid (a very reasonably salary) to read B3TA. There are lots of reasons, but basically my job is feels utterly pointless, and there's only so much I can do to influence things around it (apologies - this is deliberatly vague!).

I shouldn't complain, but I'm bored shitless, and I'm bang in the middle of that mid-30s "Is that it" phase, and I just don't know what to do!

However, there is a plan - by the end of next year, the mortgage will be paid off and I'm going to be spending my time up to then trying to figure out what I want to do with the rest of my life. What that is, I don't know, but it's definitely time for a change...
( Fireflier La la la la, not listening on, Fri 27 Jun 2008, 13:03, closed)

try having a degree
in fucking Sports Science!

(from my uni at least) it's a base degree, with no real use except as a platform for many other (infinitely more interesting) degrees, such as physiotherapy, nutrition and so on. I am now teaching English, to children, in Spain, No degree related job for me - EVER
(bamboozled Can hear you getting fatter, Fri 27 Jun 2008, 13:06, closed)

@ kaol
But shirley it comes in handy for the dismembering. I mean recognising which species bits fit together can't be that easy, can it?

(Although with the design side of things, you should at least be able to make it look nice - I always thought Hanibal Lecter had an artistic background given that bit in the cage with the guards in Silence of the Lambs.)
( Fireflier La la la la, not listening on, Fri 27 Jun 2008, 13:06, closed)

@kaol
I nearly did zoology, then realised that parasites were more fun and required less stats.
was particularly pleased when I started the PhD, as my supervisor said 'if you need statistics, your experiment hasn't worked'. Which is my motto for science now.
( ascorbate, Fri 27 Jun 2008, 13:10, closed)

@Kaol.
Now that we've lost Steve Irwin, couldn't you take his place.

Fancy wrestling a croc?
( girlinthehole, Fri 27 Jun 2008, 13:11, closed)

Or
a caprine equivalent?

an alligoater?
( ascorbate, Fri 27 Jun 2008, 13:24, closed)

Haha!
Well, I do have a bit of camera/radio/presenting practice, and Davey A's getting on a bit too...
( Cawl, Fri 27 Jun 2008, 13:53, closed)

@Kaol
You can't have David A's job - you wouldn't want it anyway. There's a rule about not molesting the animals...
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Fri 27 Jun 2008, 14:10, closed)

That's HIS rule
He'll be dead soon.
Then it's my turn.

"This programme features scenes that some viewers may find disturbing"
( Cawl, Fri 27 Jun 2008, 14:11, closed)

@kaol
and some animals may find immensely disturbing.
( ascorbate, Fri 27 Jun 2008, 14:20, closed)

*grins*
Yes indeed...
( Cawl, Fri 27 Jun 2008, 14:21, closed)

Congrats on the job
Hopefully you'll have a good time in the US. Contrary to the warnings I'm sure you'll get, we're not all bumbling idiots here. Most of us, sure, but not all.
(chase, Fri 27 Jun 2008, 16:11, closed)

Good luck with the job
I've just graduated with an education in robotics. I sent out tons of resumes but no robotics places seemed to want me. I ended up pouncing on the first interesting job I was offered. I wanted a job in robotics, but they all wanted a lot of experience. How am I supposed to get experience if no one will give me a job? So now I'm about to start a programming job on Monday. My dreams of working with robots have been shattered. *sob*
(evil_penguin_17 Robots of Doom... Attack!, Sat 28 Jun 2008, 18:15, closed)

I sent
111 applications and got 9 replies, 2 of which were interviews, the rest were "not enough experience" after leaving college.

But, as soon as you get one foot in the door, its plain sailing, so good luck with this job!
(Ethelred is watching cheese grow, Mon 30 Jun 2008, 15:51, closed)