I'm saying no to the 50% off thing because then the sentance for rape would be so low in comparison the damage it can do to someone.

( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 18 May 2011, 10:49, 2 replies, latest was 15 years ago)

Rape should equal life in jail

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 18 May 2011, 10:50, Reply)

I think convicts should have the chance to gamble their sentence.
Put them in a room with, say 5 people, all of them - bar one - have some god-awful STI. The rapist then has to fuck one of them bareback for a month.

If they don't get ill, they get to do half their sentence. But here is the twist. They don't find out if they are ill until they are due to have their parole heard/until their cock falls off.

That'll be agony for 'em.

(I admit I haven't give this due thought)
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:01, Reply)

whatever the circumstances?
What if two really pissed people meet in a bar, flirt a bit, go somewhere, the woman is in no fit state to say no but definitely doesn't want sex and the bloke is in no fit state to ask properly but thinks she does? It's still rape. But you can't (realistially anyway) argue the man solely has the moral responsibility to stay sober enough to get signed permission any more than you could get away with arguing that the woman solely must stay sober enough to be clear about saying no.

bit of a devil's advocate line here, of course, I wouldn't condone the actions of the bloke above in any way, I know, but I still think there are "degrees of severity" like any other crime.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:06, Reply)

but how many cases actually fit this?

( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:13, Reply)

These are the cases that people are arguing about changing the laws for
because women in that situation are making a complaint but because there is no realistic chance of prosecution they aren't going to court.
(Bazongaloid, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:15, Reply)

If you don't pay a prostitute, does that constitute as rape?
I don't mean that in a bad way, I was just wondering.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:17, Reply)

I have no idea
I would have thought most would demand the money up front.
(Bazongaloid, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:19, Reply)

it's fraud, mate
or theft.

just in case anyone actually takes me seriously this was a joke.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:19, Reply)

It only takes one case for there to need to be a range of sentences.
As a lawyer you should know that. Otherwise, if you suggest that there has to be a minimum of fifteen years for rape, it would mean in the case above the bloke would get 15 years (massively over the top) or, more likely, CPS wouldn't prosecute (which would be very wrong)
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:16, Reply)

I imagine it's more than what is reported.

( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:16, Reply)

You can't just impose a life sentence for rape
That is completely unworkable. What you'd probably then find is that a greater percentage of rapes actually ended in murder. No witnesses then, innit?
(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Wed 18 May 2011, 11:30, Reply)

5 years is only the "minimum" sentence for rape
like all crimes, there are degrees of severity. Maybe not for the victim, but that can't be the only consideration. Sentencing is about rehabilitation and removing risk of re-offending primarily. To consider it just about punishing is basically barbaric.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 18 May 2011, 10:56, Reply)

I agree

( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 18 May 2011, 10:57, Reply)

Sorry, I don't think five years should be the minimum, not if you're a rapist.
Lock them up and throw away the key.
(Poppet some assembly required., Wed 18 May 2011, 11:04, Reply)

*points upwards* ^
it's not always black and white.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:07, Reply)

I understand that.
However, having been raped, and then told by the judge that I was a liar because I didn't immediately undergo a rape-test at the hospital afterwards, I have some very strong feelings which colour my opinion on this subject.
(Poppet some assembly required., Wed 18 May 2011, 11:09, Reply)

So he didn't ask you three times if you were sure?

(Bazongaloid, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:10, Reply)

Al mate, far too far here

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:11, Reply)

Nope. He was sober, I was sober.
he made a move, I said no, plainly, and he ignored me. It's not a funny matter. It's made a lot of things really difficult for me in the long term.
(Poppet some assembly required., Wed 18 May 2011, 11:12, Reply)

You absolutely have the right to strong opinions
my point is just why there has to be a low-ish minimum sentence.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:17, Reply)

it'd be nice if the minimum sentence actually got applied though,
It very rarely does here.
(Poppet some assembly required., Wed 18 May 2011, 11:19, Reply)

It does here
that's why it's a minimum. Obviously, though, most people get out in less for good behaviour.

I fully appreciate that it's very hard as the victim of a crime to see prison as anything other than a punishment and therefore to be angry if the sentence is low or shortened, but we are supposed to be civilised human beings not babarians and prison is not meant to be primarily a punishment, that's not really justice. People are released early for other reasons. Not that, I'm sure, that makes you feel any better.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:22, Reply)

See knife crime minimum sentence of 5 years - not

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:27, Reply)

It fucking well should be about punishment!

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:30, Reply)

why?
if it's solely about punishment than flog and/or execute everyone and BAM! well done, back in the middle ages.

A justice system is about rehabilitation, punishment, removal of risk of reoffending and remorse. All four matter in civilised society.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:38, Reply)

I didn't say solely
Sentences should be half harsh punishment, so no one ever wants to go back, and half rehabilitation so that they have the opportunity to not reoffend.

The removal of risk is important, but not in all cases as a person caught embezzling is hardly a massive threat!
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:41, Reply)

But,
What about all the really difficult cases in between though, like mighty badger set out above? Cases where the woman is so drunk she can't actually remember and actually, maybe the night before she did want to have sex with the guy she woke up with, but now bitterly regrets it and assumes she must have said no?
(Bazongaloid, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:09, Reply)

That is for the court to decide I think

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:10, Reply)

But the point is, in that situation, is the man as culpable as someone who hides in an alleyway
and then grabs his victim and rapes them.

I would argue quite clearly not. They may be in the wrong, but they are unlikely to present a long term danger to society, and as Swipey says, it costs a fortune to keep someone in prison.
(Bazongaloid, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:12, Reply)

if the min sentence was high
it would never even get to court (because a jury in that case would probably just acquit) and do even more damage to the rape reporting and convition rate.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:19, Reply)