Been listening to Radio 5 live
and there is quite a controversy regarding the winner of the womans 800 metres final, in that they cannot be 100% sure that the winner is actually a female at all! she might be a little bit man, but must have a few female bits to have got this far surely?

news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/8210471.stm

This brings one very pertinent question to mind...Have we just found the perfect life partner for Big girls blouse?

runs off before I get decked!
(Halfy By light alone, Wed 19 Aug 2009, 22:35, 10 replies, latest was 16 years ago)

Halfy, try to play nice
www.sportsscientists.com/2009/08/caster-semenya-male-or-female.html

Further info on the story. Seems that they think she was born a hermaphrodite.

Also it seems that the lack of a cock and balls is not enough to prove you are not a man!
( Mrs Entity is in hiding., Wed 19 Aug 2009, 23:54, Reply)

I work on the National DNA Database
and there's a monthly report of people who were identified as one sex when booked but turn out to be genetically the other.

There's more than you'd think.
( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Thu 20 Aug 2009, 0:00, Reply)

I remember seeing a program
where a woman in the states had to have her child's DNA tested to prove paternity.

The odd thing was that when the results came back it seemed that she wasn't the mother.

Turned out that her reproductive organs were those of her twin sister who had never been born, she had absorbed her in the womb and this meant that her fanny and that were not technically hers!
( Mrs Entity is in hiding., Thu 20 Aug 2009, 0:10, Reply)

to be honest...
having seen pictures of her from less than 8 months ago, and comparing them to now, this is more likely a case of massive massive doping. take enough male hormones and it can confuse the body completely. not that she couldn't have mixed-up chromosomes/genitalia, but combine her massive sudden growth with massive improvements in her time, and i'd be completely stunned if this doesn't turn out to be a (lady)garden-variety case of doping.
(tuqueboy has been in a medically -induced coma since, Thu 20 Aug 2009, 13:15, Reply)

Oi.
Be nice to BGB. She's a lovely lady and deserves whoever she deigns to be good enough for her - whether that person have dangly bits or tits.

For what it's worth, my opinion is that it doesn't really matter either way. She runs fantastically. :)
(Poppet some assembly required., Thu 20 Aug 2009, 1:31, Reply)

Huh.
"A group of doctors, including an endocrinologist, a gynaecologist, an internal medicine expert, an expert on gender and a psychologist, have started the testing procedure..."

Why don't they just have a look what bits she's got.
( zoldergoose, Thu 20 Aug 2009, 1:32, Reply)

because the bits she may have aren't necessarily indicative of her chromosomes.
IE - Kleinfelters syndrome is where a boy has two or more X chromosomes. He still has a cock and balls but they stay at the prepubescent size for the entirety of that person's life.

Or - Turners Syndrome - where a girl is missing an X chromosome. They are infertile and unless hormone treatment is given - they don't develop at all during puberty.

Those are two of the more well known sex-linked chromosomal disorders (as in X or Y - girls have XX, boys have XY). There are other disorders that it could be - and not many of them are necessarily able to be determined by "looking at what bits she's got".
(Poppet some assembly required., Thu 20 Aug 2009, 5:11, Reply)

*shakes fist*
Don't mock my inability to find love.
( girlinthehole, Thu 20 Aug 2009, 8:45, Reply)

Rules technically state
That entrants must compete as their gender-at-birth.

Which is all well and good, but what if Semenya doesn't slot nicely into one of those 2 categories? Who gets to decide what gender she is?

I have a friend called Jaimie who was born with female organs but male quantities of horemones - i.e. She had the outward appearance of being (quite abundantly) female, but could grow a beard and all sorts.

He has always identified as male, regardless of outward appearances, because (and I'm simplifying, I know) his horemones were telling him he was a boy, not a girl. He underwent gender reassignment therapy and is now certificated as male.

Gender isn't limited to "cock or fanny". Sex is, but gender isn't.

Will be interested to see how this turns out.
(Biscuit Burlesque wants to be Dita von Teas, Thu 20 Aug 2009, 11:22, Reply)

Not quite true
if you've had sex reassignment including hormone treatmnt before puberty, you can compete as your current sex; post puberty, and you have to wait until two years post completion and then undergo a bunch of tests. I think this is more applicable to male-to-female though. The rules are there to stop people competing as women who have high levels of testosterone which gives you a natural advantage in sports. There's other rules regarding androgen insensitivity syndrome and the like (where you're born XY - a bloke - but your body doesn't respond to testosterone, so you go through puberty as a girl)

To be fair, having looked at her picture...she does look fairly ambiguous, but I hope she passes her tests.

*EDIT* and I agree with your point above - gender isn't necessarily defined by what bits and pieces you have.
(berk, Thu 20 Aug 2009, 11:40, Reply)