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This is a question Professions I Hate

Broken Arrow says: Bankers, recruitment consultants, politicians. What professions do you hate and why?

(, Thu 27 May 2010, 12:26)
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Warning: Daily Mail-esque rant abound
I have a large amount of ill-feeling towards professional dole monkeys. Half of the people I left school with are in this category, and haven't had a job in the nearly 4 years since we left. I work damned hard to make less in a week than Kyle and Bekki, sat on their arse drinking Special Brew and excreting sprogs.

No, really. I have recently moved into new digs, so off I toddled to the 'One Stop Shop' we have in my hometown to make it easier for these cunts to defraud the system in the (fairly reasonable) hope that young lad + living alone + low wage = housing benefit, or at least working tax credit.

Sadly, I was not eligible for fuck all. Apparently if you are 18, male, and work full-time, 50 quid a week is enough to pay your rent, bills, feed you and still provide enough excess cash to get the bus to work. Let me just re-emphasise that; 50 quid.

I looked up what I would be eligible for was I not working:

JSA: £50/pw
Local Housing Allowance: £55/pw
Income Support: £50/pw
Council Tax Benefit: £15/pw
(My Wage - £170/pw)

Not to mention the various 'Allowances' one can get for travelling to dole interviews, etc. Really boils my piss.

I understand that some people are genuinely unable to work. Fine, this is aimed at the can't be arsed brigade. But in my view, you should either be learning or earning if you're my age.

So to sum up: Dole rats, you annoy me.

Length? 35 Hours per week.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 12:27, 62 replies)
Hear hear.
As per the previous rant in last week's topic on similar lines, the problem is that in order to justify going to work, parents need a job of approximately £25k to make it worth their while, and that doesn't take into account the babysitter's fees for while they're in the office.

£25k jobs tend to command a certain degree of expertise or at least experience.

So ... in short - ain't gonna happen.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 12:32, closed)
Tell me about it
I get caned because my ex buggered off with my kids after my house caught fire - apparently the stress was all too much for her, so she decided to just jump ship. So, nearly 500 quid a month goes to her to spunk up the wall on new sofas and a f*cking great big telly (I kid you not, I know it's a bit DMish, but it is the truth).

I earn a fair bit more than the 25k needed, yet still, after rent, c/tax, petrol, gas, leccy etc... I'm skint a week after pay day.

I needed a dentist quite urgently at the start of the year - massive pain, coulnd't concentrate on anything. Went to the dentist to be told I need to pay 199 quid to have it done.

Had to wait for 6 months in f****g agony before I could get the 200 quid together.

If I'd banged out a couple of sprogs, or was carrying one in my benefit pouch, then I'd have got that for free, despite the fact that I'm paying into it through NI already.

Because I was working, I had to endure 6 months agony, and then borrow dosh to get to work for the rest of that month.

Something is not quite right here.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 12:43, closed)
My mate is married with three kids. He earns £17k or so, his wife has a part-time job, but it doesn't pay a lot. He gets £47 per week on child benefit which is not means tested. They also get about £160 per week in working tax credits and child tax credits. They'll lose a hefty portion of this when his kids leave full time education but on the whole the government will make sure that families are looked after for not being dole scum.

Huzzah for socialism
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 12:58, closed)
What would they get JSA, child benefit, council tax, rent, medical and dental bills if both were unemployed?
I'll wager it wuold work out as more than £17k.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:03, closed)
dchurch above says he earns well over £25k and is skint
I don't know what his definition of skint is, but if he was on the dole and lived on his own he'd be on the bones of his arse. He might not have to pay rent or council tax and he wouldn't have to fork out £500 a month. But he would have to move into a council flat to qualify for full housing benefit. A private landlord would mean he would have to top up the rent out of his own pocket. The CSA would still take a fiver out of his benefits.

That would leave him with £60. If a partner moved in, he would be £30 a week better off.
So, £90 a week to pay bills and buy food. If they have a child, they are a fair bit better off but then you're having to pay for a child. That means no fags or booze, a shopping list of Smart Price stuff, or more likely Nettos, no holidays and public transport only. I've been in that situation years ago. It's fucking grim.

But the claim that you're worse off working than being on the dole smells of the countryside frankly as people don't compare like for like.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:33, closed)
but then
I wouldn't need a car, so would be 200 quid better off by not having to buy petrol, car tax, and insurance.

CS - 500
RENT - 900
CTAX - 200
ELEC - 40
GAS - 80
PETROL - 200

There's 1920, without even thinking about food or water bills (can't remember how much that one is).

If I wasn't working we could knock the best part of 1600 quid off that.

This is calcluated of course, before fags and booze.

I too have been on the dole - for 19 months to be exact, wasn't much fun I grant you, but on the whole, I'm not really a whole lot better off now than I was then, and that was before all the child-tax-credit stuff and everything else you can, supposedly, get now, like free dentists. That was 200 quid I couldn't afford to give out, so just put up with the agony for 6 months. Then of course there's things like crisis loans for when you washing machine packs up. Mine has packed up, I've got no choice but to wash stuff in the sink now. I don't qualify for a 'crisis' loan.

I still had to pay full price for prescriptions for penicillin prescribed by the dentist as well. All these things add up. If I'm ill I can't go to the docs, as the prescription charge I won't have - depending on when in the month it is. I could choose to only get ill on payday I suppose.

I can only wish for 240 quid a month to spend on food.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:45, closed)
How the hell do you spend £200 a month on petrol?

(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:09, closed)
driving to work and back.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:11, closed)
Do you work at the other end of the country?
Or drive a ferrari?
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:14, closed)

1200 miles per month.
Roughly 8 quid a day.
So about 150 quid, assuming I can go the shortest distance, which I haven't been able to do due to a road collapsing (well, looks more like the moon than a road, so have had to increase my journey by about 2 miles per day - I rounded this up, so guessed at about 200 quid, which isn't far out, plus I have to drive to pick up my kids (as, of course, it would be too much to ask that this driving be shared between my ex and I). That probably adds an extra 50 quid a month.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:20, closed)
anyone seen the price of pertrol recently, loads of people pay £200 a month. If I drove to work it would cost me about that, so i get the train, which is about £15 less a week
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:50, closed)
I would
get the train too.

Sadly, getting the train requires a 10 mile bus journey (in the direction AWAY from where I work), to catch another bus at the bus station to the railway station, then a 2 mile walk at the other end.

It works out about the same financially.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 17:09, closed)
That's not too bad,
It used to be 240-250 for me. I know others who drive even further!
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:23, closed)
That's what I thought
The job I was in before was double that.

I thought I was doing well by getting a slight pay rise to go to a job closer to home.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:27, closed)
A guy I went to college with lives just outside of Sedgefield
and drives to Scarborough each day. 75 miles each way. He very soon bought a dual-fuel car and saved a fair packet.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:29, closed)
no way on Earth I could afford to buy a new (or nearly new) car like that.
I struggled to get my car through it's last MOT with the help of a mechanic friend, desperatly crossing my fingers that I could squeeze another year out of the old bird.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:32, closed)
It wasn't new
It was an Exchange & Mart job or eBay or some such. Bit of a Sally Gunnell.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:59, closed)
Hybryd would surely cost more than I could sell mine for - which would be around 500 quid, if I cleaned it up a little.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 17:10, closed)
Sounds like it's worth more than mine
6 months' tax and a full tank doubles the value. It's in for it's MOT this week, I'm dreading it.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 17:55, closed)
what about petrol for driving other places instead of work?
shops, visiting friends and family etc?

I bet £900pcm for rent gets you a pretty swanky place. If you were that bothered about being skint, you'd find somewhere a damn sight cheaper. That would also save you a load on the council tax.

You're not just fiscally worse off on benefits, your quality of life goes down the pan.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:22, closed)
I'll take
that bet.

It's certainly not swanky. There's no double glazing, the carpet is threadbare, and there's no garden. At all. The kitchen and bathroom are Lime Green and straight from the 60's - which is when they were both installed. We can't take too long a shower as the water comes through into the living room, the landlords plumber mate, of course can find nothing wrong.

I have looked about, and for around 800 quid I could get a 2 bed terraced place. Of course, that would mean my two children sharing, which very soon (within the next 2 years) would become illegal - due to their ages travelling only in one direction; so by law, very soon I would need to find a 3 bed place, and I'd be looking at around 900 quid again, plus I'd have the crap of the upheaval that goes with moving, twice.

I could of course, move to Wales where I believe propertly prices and associated rents are a lot cheaper, but I think the extra in travel to work and back would negate any saving.

Indeed, I do also drive to pick up my kids. That would add about 50 quid to the (g)estimated 200 quid a month.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:26, closed)
Nah, I'm not buying it.
Someone who took the banks on and won does not pay £900 pcm to live in a shabby house with no double glazing and knackered plumbing.

Unless you've found a gold seam under the kitchen floor that is.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 16:06, closed)
I can
provide photographic evidence if it pleases.

If I didn't want knackered plumbing and no double glazing, I'd be paying a shed load more than 900 quid a month.

All taking on the banks did for me, was get my own money back - in total about 2.5k - around 5 years ago now.

Not really enough to live the rock-star lifestyle on, I'm sure you will agree.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 16:52, closed)
Yet you've never
taken the landlord to account over this? His neglect to repair the leaky shower sounds like a breach of Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 Section 11.(1)(b) and arguably Section 10. My mate Ray did the same with his landlord when he had a leaky roof. After threatening the landlord with a formal letter and quoting a bit of legislation adding that he can withhold the rent to pay for it himself if they don't get a move on, they had a roofer round in 24 hours.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 17:46, closed)
Where do you live?

(, Thu 3 Jun 2010, 0:31, closed)
I'm not buying it either.
This is the guy that doesn't have a bank account, and when asked about the lack of interest that the contents of his safe receives, said that he does such things as buys houses, guitars, items of value such as art etc for cash, then sells them later at a profit.

So, you can afford to buy and sell houses for cash, have a safe in your bedroom that always has thousands of pounds cash inside it, but you rent a shit tip house?

I detect the heady stench of bullshit. Either you've made up your current situation in a bizarre display of poverty tourism, or you've lied about your cash-filled safe, your vast income and pretty much your whole lifestyle.

All anyone who's curious about this peculiar state of affairs needs to do is peruse your profile and answers.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 20:05, closed)
Not always.
Sometimes, if I've saved and/or sold something, then there will be a fair chunk of dosh in there.

...and I rarely sell things. The things I have bought were for investment, not quick profit.

Houses here are expensive, this is the best deal I could get.

I nearly had to go for a 4 bed place in the next village along - that would have meant just under 1500 quid a month.

I'm not claiming poverty, I'm merely answering the question, which was; Would I be better off not working - I think there's benefit to both. Not working would mean my outgoings would more than halve, and dental treatment etc... would be free.

Admittedly, at the start of the year when I had massive toothache, I did also have a massive tax bill to pay as well, rendering me unable to pay the 200 quid to get my teeth fixed, so I may have stretched the truth inadvertently by not putting that bit in.
(, Thu 3 Jun 2010, 7:48, closed)
So where do you live then?
Sounds like pretty steep house prices.
Even steeper than London in fact.....
(, Thu 3 Jun 2010, 12:55, closed)
why would it be illegal?
I thought room sharing by family members was perfectly legal?
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 18:11, closed)
Er, it's not illegal
For two or four or even twenty kids to share a room, whatever age and sex they are. All it means is if you were on housing benefit you'd get a higher rate for an extra bedroom requirement.

Interestingly the threshold for this is much lower than the threshold at which the council will admit you are overcrowded. The threshold for overcrowding has not changed since 1935, and counts living rooms and kitchens as well as bedrooms.

But even if you are considered to be legally overcrowded, there's not a lot they will do about it. They're not going to put you in jail for living in a small house, FGS.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 22:27, closed)
was under the impression that a male and female could not sleep in the same room after the age of 12.
(, Thu 3 Jun 2010, 7:45, closed)
that's what I thought
I am pretty sure that I shared a room with my brother and sisters when I was over 12 - sometimes we still do share rooms when visiting family!
(, Thu 3 Jun 2010, 9:35, closed)
Um ... if you're unemployed, I don't think your job seeker's allowance should cover luxuries like fags, booze, holidays or personal transport.
I'd be interested to see what the breakdown is of JSA, child benefit x 3, council tax, av medical and dental bills, and how it all works out.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:50, closed)
If you fancy doing some calculations
The entitledto website is pretty good at breaking down what you would and wouldn't get in any situation.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:56, closed)
Not really.
My basic stance is that anyone on the dole should only really have food/transport stamps, rent, and a provision - perhaps stamps as well - for their children's needs.

Luxuries such as fags, booze, holidays should not come into the equation at all, so if they can afford them, then it had better be Christmas, or that they're celebrating having got a job.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:06, closed)
I remember we used to go to the post office every fortnight
pay the bills with those prepay swipe card things for the gas, electric and water. We couldn't afford to have a phone. We'd then go to Kwik Save with what was left (about half) and get two weeks of shopping. Our treat was a 3-litre bottle of Coke and share a chicken korma from the local curry house every other week.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:11, closed)
similar story
my ex was nearly killed in an accident - had to learn to walk again etc - I could only work part time as he needed a carer due to being totally helpless. Apparently a couple can live on £84 a week.oh - we did get £8 per week council tax benefit but no help with mortgage etc - if we had been dole scroungers we would have been properly looked after.It seems if you do try to help yourself in this country you get no thanks for doing so.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 12:52, closed)
No offense to everyone who has posted here...
Because I feel the same. But rather than just write it all on B3TA - write to your local MP, the council, DSS, whoever about this instead.

I did - hasn't made any difference, but if EVERYONE did, it'd have to.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:14, closed)
I admire your optimism

(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:40, closed)
^What she said.

(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:44, closed)
^What he said, she said.

(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:06, closed)
By daily mail-esque rant do you mean completely misinformed?
Firstly you cannot get JSA and IS at the same time. To my knowledge there is no money paid to get people sign on/interviews.

Also, you work 35 hours and get paid £1.42 an hour for the previlege?
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:04, closed)
he gets £4.86/hour as he said he gets £170/week BUT how do you only have £50/week to live off? Not having a go just asking (being nosy probably)?
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:25, closed)
I thought the £170 was what he would have gotten if he was claiming benefits
ie the £50 of JSA, £55 of housing, £50 of Income support and £15 Council tax benefit = £170. Though I may have misunderstood.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:40, closed)
is pretty normal for a modern apprenticeship, for instance - my niece is training to be a hairdresser and gets paid about that. And yes, you can get grants for interview clothes plus transport to and from interviews etc. Although I don't know if this comes direct from the government but I know for a fact that places like remploy do this.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:33, closed)
I read somewhere
that minimum wage applies to apprenticeships.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:37, closed)
From HMRC website:
From pay reference periods starting on or after 1 October 2006 the special rules for apprentices will be extended to apprentices aged over 25. This will mean that:

apprentices under age 19 will not qualify for the national minimum wage
apprentices over age 19 and in the first 12 months of their apprenticeship will not qualify for the national minimum wage.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:54, closed)
Interviews for work, yes, but not to get to the jobcentre.
Which again was how it reads.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:56, closed)
Yes, this.
It's JSA if you are able to work, ESA if you are unable to work due to illness or disability or IS if you are unable to work due to other reasons (such as being a single parent)

You cannot claim two of these at the same time.

So your total income if you were not in work would be £120 per week. That is intended to cover rent, council tax, bills, food and bus fare to interviews. If your rent comes to more than the LHA then you have to make up the difference yourself. Granted, you get free prescriptions etc on these benefits but the extra £50 a week ought to cover that.

And bear in mind that when you work, you get paid every week/month with no fuss, if you left one job for another the overlap wouldn't leave you out of pocket, and you don't have to tell your employer (wait, make that 2-3 separate departments of your employer, none of which talk to each other) if you move in with someone, have a child or move house. You can take on extra casual or temporary work without having to declare it (except for tax purposes of course) and most of all you have the satisfaction of knowing you are supporting yourself and not relying on handouts.

It's a myth that people are better off on benefits than working, except in some cases when you have a lot of children. Obviously there are some people who are going to sit on their arse and do nothing and be supported, just because they can, but don't assume that the majority of people who are on benefits are having one long party. (And if they are it's probably funded by illegal means, anyway, and not benefits at all)
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:52, closed)
"Obviously there are some people who are going to sit on their arse and do nothing and be supported, just because they can"

is the entire problem.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:57, closed)
These people, you wouldn't want to work with.
I often wonder if the govenment have an active interest in keeping people down. *dons tinfoil hat* The lower classes probably provide the majority of the soldiers on the front line.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:15, closed)
they're too bone idle to sign up.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:24, closed)
I believe it was part of Cameron's manifesto
to do something about that.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:24, closed)
Tony Blair's, John Major's, and Maggie's too, I understand.

(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:27, closed)
...and all of them were going to have "a bonfire of the quangos" as well, so expect a shed load more "sleep councils" and "potato council" type jobs soon.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:30, closed)
I don't know the details, as I do tend to drift off when "news" abounds...
But the new government have plans to fix this apparently. To make it so it's better to work than be on the dole and have medical tests and so forth if needs be.

I'm all for it, but my boyfriend is getting a bit antsy, being a dole scum himself. If it gets him back into work then woohoo! We might actually be able to afford to go on a holiday for once! =D
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 16:29, closed)
thats great and everything but,
People shouldn't have to um and ah and look at calculations about whether they'd be better off being on the dole and/or receiving benefits, or whether they should get a job. Benefits should be cut to a minimum, and I mean BARE minimum to survive i.e food stamps, nappies, second hand clothes, no satellite tv, no perks/freebies, internet, restricted elec and gas so that it is only available to heat and light their home, communal laundry services etc.

If being jobless, without a skill or qualifications or training of some sort, or having kids that the parents have no means of supporting, were made to be so unappealing and harsh then people wouldn't get themselves into such situations, or at least in the unemployment case, wouldn't stay there for long.

I realise relationships end unexpectedly and people badly affected should be helped, but for people that are too stupid to use a condom, then, I believe that the government should help if it happens once(even this seems a bit generous), do it twice and you're on your own.

As for people, who 'can't get a decent job' well maybe if you'd listened to your mummy and daddy and tried harder at school then you wouldn't be in this situation now would you? STFU and go collect your food stamps.

We live in a country where laziness, apathy and an attitude that someone, somewhere, is going to give you something for nothing has been accepted for too long. People aren't worried about the consequences of their actions(or in the most cases, lack of them), nobody actually struggles, in a lot of sink estates they actually thrive ffs.

I was in India last year and one thing that struck me,(apart from the abject poverty) was that everyone was doing something. Nobody was idle. Even the kids at the side of the road with polio so bad that their legs were bowed and they couldn't stand up, even they were carving things from wood or singing or doing anything they could in order to get money or food. Of course we shouldn't look to third world poverty stricken countries as beacons of hope, but the basic message is the same,

Don't work, don't eat, don't live.
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 19:02, closed)
I lost my job in February this year. I'm 50, I was a sub-postmaster in a little village. We bought the place 4 years ago, it was a newsagents, off-licence, village store, post office. I was working from 6 am till 6 pm everyday except Sunday, when I did 6 till 12:30, so 78.5 hours a week. Most of the money we made went to the bank. People dont use village shops anymore. We put somewhere near 80 grand into this place and sold it in Feb this year and still owe the bank around 130k. I live with my missus and 19 year old daughter who is a full time student. I've been out of work since february. I get housing benefit, council tax benefit, free dental and prescriptions. To feed 3 adults, pay electricity, gas, water, phone bill I get £100 per week. We live in a village so we need a car to get anywhere cos the bus service is fucking shite, so that has to be factored in. I'm having to borrow from friends and family all the time.

Don't you fucking dare, you patronising twat, tell me that I need to get off my arse and find a job. I'm looking every fucking day, I've worked ever since the Monday after I left school, I'm never off through sickness and I work fucking hard. I've applied for maybe 20 jobs since feb, I haven't even had a fucking reply. I've been working with IT stuff up until taking the post office on, I can fix computers with my eyes closed, but now I have to have MCSE or MCA which I don't, so I'm having to try for whatevers out there, but I can't get a fucking thing. And twats like you give me shit like this? Because I can't even get an interview, I'm a lazy fucker? Get real you wanker...

I await your fucking smartarse answer.
(, Thu 3 Jun 2010, 0:13, closed)
"People don't use village shops anymore"

(, Thu 3 Jun 2010, 2:58, closed)
So you made a bad investment?
Most people wish they had £80,000 to set up a business, but few ever manage it. It didn't work out and you shouldn't get angry at other people or the state for that.

Perhaps the best way to do it would to make job seeking benefits value based on how much you have contributed to Tax/NI over the years, that would mean the people who are scroungers and refuse to work would get very little (like 10-20%) and people who have worked there whole life would get 100%. Then it would be more like a forced job loss insurance, rather than you just paying for the scroungers.
(, Thu 3 Jun 2010, 13:51, closed)
doley scuffers
maybe you're in a low paid job because you are a bit thick and can't add up?
Somebody wouldn't be entitled to Job Seekers Allowance AND Income Support, it's one or the other.
I don't know where you live but you'd struggle in most towns and cities to even get a room in a house share for £55 p/w and then you might not be entitled tot he council tax benefit if your house mates work.
Housing Benefit typically doesn't cover your rent and you have to top it up out of your dole money.
So your actual weekly allowance from the state for doing fuck all is actually £45p/w. Even your dodgy maths of a £170p/w would only mean a single person would be entitled to £8840 p/a, hardly a lord's ransom. I've been made redundant 3 times in the last 15 years and it is thoroughly depressing existence claiming benefits. You only left school 4 years ago which means you have only ever experienced a Labour government during your working life (in fact most of your life) during which you have experienced one of the longest economic booms in history. In short, shut the fuck up nob head (and take some evening classes).
(, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 17:34, closed)
who crawled up your arse with a razorblade?
(, Thu 3 Jun 2010, 9:38, closed)

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