Fingered...
A little while ago, on /OT, someone mentioned Vibram FiveFingers - a kind of sports shoe that's more like a glove for the foot.

I was interested... so bought a pair to use at the gym. Having a dodgy knee means that I can't really road run - but I do try to do a bit on the treadmill every day just to keep the right muscles working in the hope that, one day, I'll have a knee replacement and be able to start running properly again.

So... the shoes.

They have no support at all. They don't have cushioned soles.

And they are fantastic.

At present, my feet hurt because the shoes hold the foot differently and force you to place it on the ground differently, and I've therefore got a few blisters. But they'll pass, and my running posture is better, I'm more efficient, faster, and - best yet - my knee has gone from alternating between a generalised throb and outright pain to feeling absolutely fine.

OK - correlation and cause and all that stuff. But I'm a convert.

EDIT AND UPDATE: Of course, if I end up completely unable to walk in a couple of years, I'll let y'all know...
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 12:55, 38 replies)

.
Thats good news!

So its just like having bare feet then?
( browser still relating boring anecdotes into a void on, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 13:05, closed)

Yep...
... but without the grit, glass and stuff if and when you go outside.
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 13:06, closed)

I like those shoes!
And as soon as my paycheck comes in im going to buy me a pair
(gingaman, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 13:10, closed)

Nice
I might try me a pair of those. My knees sound like yours :-(
(TheBDI is watching you..., Wed 15 Jul 2009, 13:12, closed)

It's been noticeable.
You also notice that instead of running heel-toe, you go toe-heel. That must make a big difference to the dynamics up the whole leg.
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 13:15, closed)

So...
You're running backwards?
That sounds dangerous.
( gareth_alien will be human again at, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 13:35, closed)

it never did Michael Jackson any harm.
FACT.
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 13:40, closed)

I just wandered around the office walking Toe-Heel.
It felt weird but kinda neat. Might see about a pair.
(Scritty Bakerman., Thu 16 Jul 2009, 11:42, closed)

Sounds intrigueing
I could do with sorting out a new pair of running shoes, I keep getting pains in the heels and achilles ares. I have an odd posture which conspires to make me run like a spaz.
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:01, closed)

Are you sure that's not
Because you ARE a spaz?
( Cawl, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:17, closed)

As I have more money than sense I shall try a pair of these shoes.
But if anyone calls me a knob then I shall cry.
( girlinthehole, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:05, closed)

Easy blister prevention.
The cause of blisters is friction.
Just liberally smear vaseline on your feet before putting on your socks. No more blisters.
(oneinthepink is at your cervix m'lady, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:32, closed)

just looked these up
was actually quite curious. until i saw the cost.


£85?? for a feet-gloves? not a chance.
(TheManWithThePlan cussed your mum on, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:40, closed)

I just looked 'em up too
Cheaper in the US: for $100 you can buy a set inc. shipping to the uk. xe.com gives me price at £65. Have to wait a few weeks, but still.
( LemonEntryMyDearWatson This time, Moriarty, the hand is on the other foot, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 14:58, closed)

.
A feet gloves!!!!

I want a feet gloves. GIVE ME A FEET GLOVES.
( browser still relating boring anecdotes into a void on, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 15:25, closed)

NO A FEET GLOVES FOR YOU
i r a feet gloves nazi
(TheManWithThePlan cussed your mum on, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 15:49, closed)

A friend of mine had them, and he looked stupid.
We mocked him.

For a cheaper alternative, go to a specialised running shop, and get them to fit you properly, including trying out on a treadmill etc... find a nice pair for around £70, and you will be in running heaven!

I was never sure about the whole damage to your knees with these, it doesn't seem to make sense, as the shock of the ground is transferred straight to your legs..
(The Kwyjibo A big, dumb, balding North American ape., Wed 15 Jul 2009, 15:01, closed)

At risk of committing all kinds of teleological fallacy...
... the barefoot principle makes sense from an evolutionary PoV. It's possible that running shoes are an enhancement - but it's also possible that they force your legs to work in a manner that's not biomechanically native to them. For at least some people, I can see how that might generate a problem.

I can only go on experience - and I did, previously, have expensive running shoes, extra support, and all that malarkey - but my running, and my legs, feel better now.
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 15:10, closed)

Also from an evolutionary PoV
I've heard before that the reason most shoes have thicker heels is to provide additional padding to compensate for the harder surfaces we now walk on (concrete, tarmac etc) compared to the earthy, softer surfaces. Our bodies evolved walking on far softer surfaces, as a rule, and we've yet to physically catchup to match the environment we've created for ourselves.
( LemonEntryMyDearWatson This time, Moriarty, the hand is on the other foot, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 15:51, closed)

Not sure about that.
A baked savannah can be pretty hard...
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 16:07, closed)

However
a baked Alaska is much softer.
( K2k6 has a proper job these days, Thu 16 Jul 2009, 12:08, closed)

hmm.. surely with a traditional running-shoe (heel-toe) gait
your legs will (hopefully) be protected by the shock absorbers in the heel of the shoe.

With a toe-heel gait, your ankle joint and associated tendons and ligaments (or whatever) will do the shock absorbing.
(haberman is singing in the changes, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 15:11, closed)

Perhaps
But if you go barefoot, you tend to go toe-heel naturally, so I'd assume that the ligaments, muscles and so on have evolved in that way, and that it's the most biomechanically efficient.

I'm not the sort of person who thinks that "natural" means "normatively powerful" - but, intuitively, it seems plausible to say that, if it's possible to retain the natural gait, that's likely to be better in at least some cases.
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 15:17, closed)

I'm not saying they don't work, just find it interesting...
I suppose barefoot worked for all of the Ethiopians many years ago...

But also, a treadmill is different to a road, which most running shoes are made for, so presumably there is less impact on a treadmill anyway?

Have you tried running on the road with them?
(The Kwyjibo A big, dumb, balding North American ape., Wed 15 Jul 2009, 15:21, closed)

Not tried road running yet...
... but am considering it if the knee improvement holds.
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 16:08, closed)

in the very olden days
when people didn't have shoes, what happened to people's ability to walk and run in old age?
(apeloverage committed the vile act of onanism on, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 15:19, closed)

didn't really matter back then i suppose
you'd probably have been eaten by a sabre tooth tiger before you hit 40. or died from caveman aids.
(TheManWithThePlan cussed your mum on, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 15:50, closed)

40? in the Olden Days?
I'm pretty sure the Life Expectancy during the agricultural revolution was something stupid like 36... and that was without Sabre-Tooth Tigers or AIDS.
( uberdeity Wondered why Owen Lars knew of the term "hell" on, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 16:32, closed)

WATCH OUT!
for Saber-tooth AIDS
( e.m.m.y. foxtrot uniform charlie kilo india tango, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 17:03, closed)

I bought some of these recently for indoor wall climbing....
..because i thought that they looked funky.
I was told by my instructor that they are not good for wall/rock clibing though as your toes are more vunerable to damage and breakage from the rocks.
Bummer :(
( DUMBLONDE is a rubber lover girl, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 16:40, closed)

Eh?
How do you manage to walk toe-heel comfortably?

I tried it down the corridor outside my office just now (hopefully giving some security camera operator a bit of a giggle) and it was incredibly uncomfortable.

I'd agree that when you're barefoot or wearing thin soled shoes and walking anywear at pace you go toe-heel, but for me that's just because the impact on my heel is too painful without proper support.

Maybe my legs are wrong...
( e.m.m.y. foxtrot uniform charlie kilo india tango, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 17:02, closed)

I'm curious -
these aren't going to cure overpronation though, are they?

Also, yes, they look twattish. I'm going to stick to my runners.
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 18:25, closed)

I've no idea...
... I didn't know what that was until I watched a YouTube video just now.

Given that I think I land more on the ball of my foot now, though, I have no idea what that'd mean in terms of pronation.

As for twattishness - the dirty little secret is that noone really looks good when they're exercising. Or, rather, if you still look good, you're probably doing it wrong.
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 15 Jul 2009, 20:48, closed)

There's not looking good,
and there's looking like a fucking twat.
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Thu 16 Jul 2009, 0:08, closed)

In fairness
the 'classic' range do look fucking twattish, but the 'flow' range with the army cammo and the swirly patterns bring to mind Predator (from the original 1987 movie) and that's not fucking twattish @ all. Its more like anti-twat. So it should balance things out, no?
(St Sepulchre's Belle tolled for thee on, Thu 16 Jul 2009, 5:23, closed)

If any of you runners
end up in Loughborough, you could do a lot worse than pop in to

www.running-fox.co.uk/

The best independent sports shop ever. The staff know everything about shoes and fit, you'll always come out more comfortable than when you went in.
( chart cat has an itch, Thu 16 Jul 2009, 2:14, closed)

Are you a community radio dj?
And did they pay you to post that ad?
(St Sepulchre's Belle tolled for thee on, Thu 16 Jul 2009, 4:54, closed)

All backed up by this rather interesting article
www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/07/barefoot/

Now can someone please explain why I have a bizarre ache on the inside of my left arch? It feels like a cramp, but it's not and I've had it for a week
(voodo_kinky, Thu 16 Jul 2009, 10:43, closed)