Conservative voters
For some reason, I find them incredibly offensive. I think it's the grandiose sense of over-inflated self-entitlement that does it.

Although at least they vote. The apathetic idiots who choose not to vote and then complain when the state fucks up have no right to moan.
( jim_bob can herd cats., Thu 6 May 2010, 9:47, 58 replies)

Why don't I have a right to complain if I don't vote? Are you saying my vote is important enough to get exactly what I want, or if I vote for someone and they get in, but I don't like what they do, then it's my fault?

( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Thu 6 May 2010, 9:59, closed)

Why do you find Conservative voters offensive?
Don't you think grouping an entire load of people, a large range of all kinds of people, in a negative manor, is more akin to bigotry than not?
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Thu 6 May 2010, 10:00, closed)

Well, the ones I know are all self-aggrandised Tory boys.
All fwah fwah fwah damn your eyes you filthy socialist type of idiots. Or the curtain-twitching old women who would happily sit in the front row of a public execution sucking peppermints.

And, if you don't vote, then you're wasting your one opportunity to attempt to influence the system on the one chance we are given, a right that was fought for by our ancestors, and hard-won with much pain. It is a dis-service to yourself and their memory not to vote.
( jim_bob can herd cats., Thu 6 May 2010, 10:06, closed)

'self-aggrandised', I'd say using that in your vocab in the context of this forum would make you look like the one with the self inflated ego.
You're using gross generalisations that you've based on your own predigest in order to belittle the voters of a political party, rather than the party themselves.

Maybe I respect the power of the vote to much to taint it with my uneducated viewpoint? I haven't educated myself on the various issues and manifestos and as such it would dishonour the point of the fight for the right to vote to begin with.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Thu 6 May 2010, 10:36, closed)

My choice of vocab has nothing to do with the point I am making.
It's just that I may have swallowed a dictionary when I was a child. A very traumatic experience especially when trying to shit out the latter sections.

Anyways. Many people vote on the basis of what Rupert Murdoch tells them to do and that in and of itself is an insult to the ballot box and democracy, and to the memory of those that fought for and later on to preserve the right to vote. And my dislike of Tory voters is merely based on those I have met, and they are cunts of the highest order.

All in all I would say that not voting is far worse than voting Conservative though, as repulsive as the idea is.
( jim_bob can herd cats., Thu 6 May 2010, 11:26, closed)

Waste of Time
I live in a "safe" seat. It doesn't matter who I vote for as the same MP will get in.

I intend to "spoil" my ballot paper, but that won't make any difference either.

Democracy only applies to people who live in marginals, roll on a hung parliament and PR.
(sigismund, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:55, closed)

That's a start
At least you're going to the polling station because a spoiled vote still counts as a vote.
( jim_bob can herd cats., Thu 6 May 2010, 12:03, closed)

Democracy - a joke!
And it gets me where, exactly?
(sigismund, Thu 6 May 2010, 12:40, closed)

Well for today, out of bed and into the rain.

( jim_bob can herd cats., Thu 6 May 2010, 12:42, closed)

Basically, if you don't do anything about it, then you can't complain, because it's clearly not so bad that you're prepared to do something about it.
Hence, if you don't vote, then you can't complain (oh - except in that childish, teenage, "they're all bastards" manner, which is exactly and only that, and will be taken equally as seriously as a child not eating their supper then complaining that they're hungry), because you didn't even try to change things by using the power you had.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Thu 6 May 2010, 10:37, closed)

I think that's bollocks.
Every party has stuff that I disagree with, and have done stuff in the past that I shouldn't forgive, but I'd have to forgive their past and agree to the things I disagree with if I vote for them.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Thu 6 May 2010, 10:45, closed)

Then you need to get over yourself and accept that parties change, priorities change, and there's only one way that you can change things
Or, y'know, you can just sit there and whine about how it's all so unfair and that you don't like it, but just don't be surprised when people don't take you seriously when you do so.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Thu 6 May 2010, 10:50, closed)

What? How is that even relievent to what I just said?
I shouldn't vote because I've not educated myself on the issue enough, I'm saying that I don't agree with any party on every issue, so would be voting for something I don't believe in.

Or is this one of those "Woooh, I'm so politicly aware, I'm voting so I can look down on people who don't" things?
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Thu 6 May 2010, 10:58, closed)

No, I think this is one of those...
..."do something to try and make a difference, rather than act like an apathetic pedantic tosspot" kind of things.
(NoveltyCondomHead Clanks Wams., Thu 6 May 2010, 11:00, closed)

Why is it down to me to 'make a difference' ?
Would you like to choose my vote for me? is that what you want? You can have it if you want.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:01, closed)

Alrighty, fine. But..
...agree that abstaining from voting comes with the caveat that whatever happens over the next 4 years (that is politically influenced) is absolutely fine with you, irrespective of what actually occurs.
(NoveltyCondomHead Clanks Wams., Thu 6 May 2010, 11:06, closed)

No one's asking you to agree with every party on every issue.
They're asking if you WANT - to assess them and vote for who you feel is best to do the job.

Wrap it up cynically if you like - "who do you think is the least bad?"

Either way, either do something to change the system (or not, if you like it how it is), or accept what you're given.

If you don't say what you want, don't complain about what you get. No one's telepathic.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:07, closed)

What a load of old...
...bollocks.

Effectively you're restricting yourself to only ever voting for a party and a candidate which not only do you agree with 100%, but also which has never in the history of it's politics done anything which it now considers contrary to it's aims.

Never gonna happen. The point others are making is that if you don't bother to exercise the tiny bit of power you have over the future of the country, then you are being a tad hypocritical if you then moan about the state of said country. Bit like never tidying you're flat and then whinging that it's untidy.

Also, lack of knowledge of the policies and pledges of the major parties is not a valid reason to avoid voting - it's only once every 4 years: get off your fat arse and find out, work out which party - on balance - you believe to be best for the country (rather than just your pocket), and whatever happens over the next 4 years at least you'll know you did what you thought was best.
(NoveltyCondomHead Clanks Wams., Thu 6 May 2010, 10:56, closed)

I can complain...
simple fact...
(likeajackhammer, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:06, closed)

You can indeed. Whether or not it's valid or not is a different matter.
I can complain that I can't fly unaided.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:08, closed)

"valid"
that's even worse than not having a right...
(likeajackhammer, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:13, closed)

a right what?

(NoveltyCondomHead Clanks Wams., Thu 6 May 2010, 11:14, closed)

A right moan.

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:16, closed)

My right moan...
..was removed as I had a lump on it. My left moan has swollen to fill the available space.
(NoveltyCondomHead Clanks Wams., Thu 6 May 2010, 11:18, closed)

Sexy tiem!

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:19, closed)

How so?

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:16, closed)

because there are people voting BNP and want "the blacks" removed from britain
I on the other hand am not a racist cunt, and the reasons I'm not voting are out of my control...

are you saying that the racist's argument is more valid than mine?
(likeajackhammer, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:19, closed)

No, but I'm saying it will be more successful in being heard.
That's why you should vote. THere are 99 nice people, and 1 BNP person.

If all the nice people don't vote, and just complain that they're not voting because they pay tax, and that one BNP person votes, then those 100 people will be represented by, and thus assumed to be, a BNP group.

That's how it works.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:21, closed)

no no no...
I didn't say that I'm not voting BECAUSE I pay tax - I'm saying I have the right to moan (between elections) because I pay tax, regardless of whether I vote.

Let's not talk cross purposes here (because we're getting off point - or at least my original point) I think everyone SHOULD vote - I just don't think people should dismiss their views just because they didn't vote...
(likeajackhammer, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:27, closed)

Ah - icy.
To a certain extent I agree with you, except I think everyone should vote and should be obliged to vote.

But yes - I'll listen to people who didn't vote if they're prepared to offer a substantive alternative.

Just complaining that they don't like whoever got in, however, I will treat with short shrift.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:30, closed)

I think that's what I was trying to say.
But writing this at work, dealing with idiots both around me and on the end of the phone tends to sap the mind somewhat.
( jim_bob can herd cats., Thu 6 May 2010, 11:33, closed)

i think it's kind of bollocks to say that choosing not to vote or spoiling your ballot gives you no right to complain about the state.
if you know your votes not going to get what you want then at least it's making a stand.
i do think this year though... i hope that people have faith that there are more than two parties running.
(babyaeroplanes, Thu 6 May 2010, 10:53, closed)

I agree about the more than 2 parties thing...
...but saying "if you know your votes not going to get what you want then at least it's making a stand." is similar to saying that if you know a protest march is not going to change things it's just as supportive to watch it on the telly rather than turn up.

People not bothering because they think it won't make a difference is the reason it never does.
(NoveltyCondomHead Clanks Wams., Thu 6 May 2010, 10:58, closed)

I'm not voting...
I also have EVERY right to whinge about the state of the country...

My vote, as far as I'm concerned, is nothing compared to the fuck-loads of tax I pay... entitling me to have my say where ever and when ever I like...

I suppose it also has something to do with freedom of speech which we have in this country... I dunno
(likeajackhammer, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:05, closed)

Erm....
..."My vote, as far as I'm concerned, is nothing compared to the fuck-loads of tax I pay... entitling me to have my say where ever and when ever I like..."

You're vote not only selects the people who set the tax levels, but also decides who chooses where to spend that tax. Therefore (in my opinion) they kind of go hand in hand.

And of course you have every right to say whatever you want, whenever you want to. I'm just suggesting that some people might want to do a bit more than just groundlessly moan when they did nothing to try to obviate the reasons for the moaning in the first place.
(NoveltyCondomHead Clanks Wams., Thu 6 May 2010, 11:10, closed)

the hilarious thing is the adjectives used
"groundless" "invalid" and no right...

I live in this country and abide by it's rules. I have the right to whinge about anything I don't like.

I totally agree that people shouldn't whinge if they don't vote - but they have as much right to do so as everyone else - and to say that their opinion in invalid because they didn't vote is fucking ludicrous
(likeajackhammer, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:17, closed)

I should have the right to say their opinion is invalid because they didn't vote, shouldn't I?

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:18, closed)

now you're getting it
EDIT: but I do think that regardless of whether they voted or not (and you'll never know unless they confess), you shouldn't dismiss their opinions.
(likeajackhammer, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:19, closed)

Ah, see, now - if I don't vote, then someone who thinks I SHOULDN'T have the right to say their opinion is invalid because they didn't vote could get in.
And that, my sex chicken, is a very slippery slope indeed.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:22, closed)

politics is (and politicians are) fucking slippery to start with...
but I do agree there...
(likeajackhammer, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:24, closed)

Hence you should vote.

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:25, closed)

I hate conversing in two different sub threads...
because I've just explained that in my reply up there ^
(likeajackhammer, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:28, closed)

I agree with you on this though...
...I think I'm running at 3 now and my mind is melting.
(NoveltyCondomHead Clanks Wams., Thu 6 May 2010, 11:29, closed)

I feel you're opinion is somewhat self contradictory...
..."I totally agree that people shouldn't whinge if they don't vote - but they have as much right to do so as everyone else"

So you agree that they shouldn't, but that they should if they want to?

I'm not saying that they shouldn't be allowed. I've hardly suggested censoring the media and black bagging anyone who dares to speak up without voting. I just think that they're being a tiny bit hypocritical.

" - and to say that their opinion in invalid because they didn't vote is fucking ludicrous"

Nope, and sorry if I phrased it like that. They're opinion is totally valid. What is not valid is moaning about it after the fact when they didn't bother trying to ensure there was less to moan about in the first place.

Let me draw a parallel for the hard of thinking. Imagine Bob has a sore shoulder, and after weeks of pain goes to the docs, has a minor opp etc. Lots of sympathy for Bob and his poorly poorly shoulder.

Now Dave has the same shoulder trouble. No docs, no painkillers for manly old Dave. 3 weeks later, no sympathy for Dave, as the stupid cunt has just sat there wallowing in his misery rather than try to fix it.

I'm guessing that you didn't need the 'written in crayon' version, but I'm trying to illustrate this isn't about free speech, it's about people complaining about a situation they themselves have helped to bring about.
(NoveltyCondomHead Clanks Wams., Thu 6 May 2010, 11:26, closed)

Errr
"fwah fwah fwah damn your eyes you filthy socialist type of idiots..."

Have you perhaps got your centuries muddled up? After all, the Liberal party did form a hung parliament after the 1910 elections...

What I don't understand is the resentment directed towards Cameron just for having the education and background that he has, when Tony Blair went to Fettes, the Edinburgh Eton, and showed an absolute sense of entitlement to No. 10's keys when he made that sleazy deal with Brown in an Islington restaurant. "I'll go first then it's your turn to have a go!" As if Britain were some kind of fucking fairground ride. If only poor old John Smith hadn't keeled over.

Must stop. Getting angry with reverse snobbery, politicians, world, self...
(Happybara The jungle came alive and took him, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:10, closed)

you might want to learn to reply in the correct subthread
OTHERWISE YOUR ARGUMENT IS FLAWED!
(likeajackhammer, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:20, closed)

tuppence from a libertarian chaocratically inclined situationist
You really believe your vote - or mine - could in any way 'influence the system'?
You sir *are* a tonic!

I find it extremely distasteful to have to guess which of the professional liars on offer will prove the least offensive, and don't feel in the least bit obliged to do so. It just encourages them.

Politics is a rigged game, and like any human hierarchical system, tends to be one in which sociopaths and ego-driven control freaks are the most successful players.

I would say that it's actually voting, not abstention, that means you can't complain: I can complain as much as I damn well please thank you very much, as I haven't surrendered my mandate to anybody else to do it on my behalf - least of all someone blatantly in pursuit of power for their own ends.

And the idea that your vote is 'your one opportunity to attempt to influence the system', suggests a severe lack of imagination. Those rights that were fought for and won by our ancestors allow us some considerable leeway regards the pursuit and promotion of our ideals and objectives. If you feel strongly enough about something, please do get up and do something about it - just don't try and persuade me that voting is a particularly practical method of attempting to do so.
(kiki chunt now available in blank, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:19, closed)

I find it rather disheartening that spastics can organise en masse and do a rick-roll
but when it comes to more serious aspects that would actually make a difference, they leave it to the hairy tree huggers who also have a predilection to smashing windows and attacking the police
(likeajackhammer, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:23, closed)

Yes, this.

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:26, closed)

Agreed.

(NoveltyCondomHead Clanks Wams., Thu 6 May 2010, 11:28, closed)

Agreed.

( jim_bob can herd cats., Thu 6 May 2010, 11:32, closed)

Voting is just one of the ways that we can influence the system.
But one of the more important ones. Protesting, be it through stopping traffic in a rural Devon village, or writing to your MP are also equally valid. But it all starts with going to the polling station.

Or at least, that's what I believe.

However, I do get what you say with regards to the voting system, which needs a serious overhaul.
( jim_bob can herd cats., Thu 6 May 2010, 11:32, closed)

My problem is that until we get PR
my vote counts for nothing as hell will freeze over, thaw and freeze over again before my constituency changes hands.
(bill, Thu 6 May 2010, 11:54, closed)

Aye...
It's just one of many aspects of the country that are stuck in the 19th Century.
( jim_bob can herd cats., Thu 6 May 2010, 12:04, closed)

"Anyways. Many people vote on the basis of what Rupert Murdoch tells them to do"
Oh dear. Get your head out of the Guardian and think for yourself!

Why are the pinko lefty types always banging on about Murdoch? I know the Simpsons isn't very good anymore, but that's not his fault.
(The Boy Monders I have ginger bits in my beard., Thu 6 May 2010, 11:48, closed)

I don't actually read any papers whatsoever.
Although something tells me you're trolling.
( jim_bob can herd cats., Thu 6 May 2010, 12:04, closed)

I have to say
'a grandiose sense of over-inflated self-entitlement' are hardly the words I think the people who know me would use.

I vote Tory. Shocker. No it doesn't make me a cunt. However people like you generalise based on perhaps one or two people you've met don't really seem to understand that.

'Wah wah every Tory is a rich cunt who wants to ruin the country.' It gets pathetic and boring after a while
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 6 May 2010, 13:00, closed)

Mind
So do Tories.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Thu 6 May 2010, 13:03, closed)