I'm going to lunch in quarter of an hour, save the good stuff for when I get back, this thread has legs I fancy
Alt: Christians, Manchester, the Tate Modern, the enduring popularity of Harry Hill, science
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:49, 2 replies, latest was 14 years ago)

What puzzles you about the Tate Modern?

( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:50, Reply)

Modern art?
10 million hand crafted sunflower seeds? Fuck off
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:51, Reply)

The artist was telling you about China through the art of clay.
China is famous for it's pottery skillz.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:55, Reply)

and its sunflowers

( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:57, Reply)

No, the artist was telling me he is a massive bellend
for making 10 million seeds out of clay. It is art with a silent F
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:57, Reply)

+UCK OFF

(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:59, Reply)

Nottingham is famous for lace, Robin Hood and gun crime
but I'm pretty sure that if I asked to suspend an AK-47 wrapped in a doily from the ceiling by a pair of green tights I'd be told to get to fuck, and rightly so.
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:09, Reply)

lacist

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:09, Reply)

*click*
Works on two levels
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:12, Reply)

Maybe
but I suspect that's because almost no thought whatsoever has gone into the work.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:17, Reply)

If you've been to the Tate in the last year you'll have seen a three-canvas installation by Cy Twombly
in which he has literally gone to town on each with a red brush. Apparently it signifies rage and ecstasy. I would argue it represents laziness, or the result of a drunken bet to see if the Tate Modern will show any old wank, however devoid of artistic merit, as long as there's an established artist's name attached.

At least my idea has three different elements.
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:23, Reply)

This is an interesting illustration of my puzzle
I am not competent right now to explain to you what (if anything) is interesting or important about the work.

I don't know when it was made (he only died this year), how it was painted, how large it is, when it was bought by the Tate, how established Twombly was as an artist when he made it. I haven't even seen the piece of work!

There is a huge amount of data, direct and contextual that you need to understand in order to get, if you will the big picture.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:28, Reply)

I disagree entirely
That is like saying "Well, he's dead and famous so therefore it must be good"
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:30, Reply)

How is it anything like saying that?
What I said was almost the exact opposite of that.

The context and intention behind the artwork is important in understanding whether or not it is interesting. It isn't enough to look at the art say 'I don't like it' and move on. That's just as simplistic as saying 'he;s famous therefore its good'.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:35, Reply)

What does when the Tate bought it have to do with liking it more or less?
Or when it was made?
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:36, Reply)

Lets say he'd made loads of paintings of swans and then suddenly he made this new thing and immediately the Tate bought it.
This creates a different context to
He made fucking thousands of the things that all looked the same and the Tate only bought it just after he died because it could get it cheap before the price went up.

Different context again.

I appreciate this might be new to you so sorry if I'm going a bit fast.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:49, Reply)

Makes absolutely fuck all difference to whether to like it or not
You either like something or don't. Context doesn't come into it
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:53, Reply)

I like "The importance of being Ernest"
but without understanding the context I doubt I'd find it very funny at all.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:55, Reply)

Moving it across to a film is slightly different I think
I know film is "art" before you fucking start
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:57, Reply)

"The importance of being Ernest" is a play
maybe the work of Hogarth might be a better example.
Taken out of context it isn't half as interesting, witty and enjoyable.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:07, Reply)

Now with a painting by Hogarth
there are already embedded visual clues that allow you to guess pretty accurately at the historical context.Art doesn't exist in a vacuum.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:08, Reply)

I do appreciate that
Over the course of our visit we joined four tours elaborating on various pieces, and I learned a lot about the artists, their motivations and histories and what was going into some of the work which I otherwise wouldn't have understood at all. Nonetheless certain things leave me totally perplexed as to why anyone would show interest. I can't help but wonder if there were art critics aplenty who were thinking, but didn't dare to say, "Hang on... this is shite!" for fear that their peers would decry them.
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:33, Reply)

The "Emperor's New Clothes"

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:35, Reply)

Remember that a piece of art can be important whilst not being particularly good.
Imagine if you had a museum devoted to the appreciation of mobile phones.
there would be some which were interesting because they were really well designed and looked really nice, sure but there would be others that it was important to have in the museum because they demonstrated some movement or moment in phone technology, design or use that was interesting and flavoured some other part.

Clearly there are going to be pieces of art that leave us cold. I don't enjoy Cy Twobley's work for instance but I am able to appreciate its place in the grander scheme of art and understanding it allows me to better understand some other artists like Robert Rauschenberg or Jasper Johns, whose work I really enjoy.

then you start to see connections and patterns emerge that allow the work to convey other meanings.

I used to not like Barnet Newman's work very much but I read a lot about some other Jewish American painters at the time and seeing Newman's work and its message within that context gave it a meaning and power I hadn't appreciated in it before.

You want to know what critics thought about the work, go and read what they said! Most critics hate new things, some of the most vociferous and unpleasant things I've read by critics have been against artworks which are now considered masterpieces in their various fields.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:45, Reply)

Some people will never GET IT no matter how much background info they have.

( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:34, Reply)

Perhaps
what's your point?
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:37, Reply)

Give me a minute while I think of the best way to phrase this.
I'm not good with words.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:41, Reply)

If this was countdown most of the studio audience would have fucked off by now

( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:53, Reply)

Unless Rachel Riley was on screen

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:53, Reply)

Cor

( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:54, Reply)

indeed

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:55, Reply)

I'd like to hold hands with her

( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:56, Reply)

It's no good.
I do have a point but cannot put it into words. This is probably why I prefer drawing to writing.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:56, Reply)

You could tell us, though the medium of dance!

( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:57, Reply)

*bops*

( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:00, Reply)

*pogos*

( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:03, Reply)

I love that name.
You'd have to be an artist with a name like that.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:35, Reply)

He MUST have lived in Wimbledon

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:37, Reply)

Modern art is a period in art history that ends int he 1960's
True, the Tate Modern has a fair amount of modern art in it, it also has some contemporary art and art since 1960.

Is it all of the art that puzzles you or just some bits of it?
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:16, Reply)

What Sportscow said
We spent 6 fucking hours in there on Thursday. I tried so hard to understand and appreciate it for Ms Foxtrot's sake, but some of the stuff in there really is just utter shite that a child could have done.
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:56, Reply)

Thank goodness you're back in Norfolk then, you wouldn't want to be thinking too much about your surroundings.

( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:03, Reply)

There's some really nice stuff there too though

( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:04, Reply)

Very true
but the question was "What puzzles you?" and the addition of impressive artwork to unadulterated toss only exacerbates the confusion.
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:06, Reply)

There's a fair bit I don't get, but having it just around the corner from me (relatively speaking) and free is one of life's joys.

( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:10, Reply)

The British Film Museum is just along the river
Go to that instead, make up for my not being able to due to the aforementioned six fucking hours. God knows your film appreciation could do with some revision.
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:14, Reply)

The day we were there
we walked along the embankment from the Eye, and saw a massive jive-off on a big temporary dance floor.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:17, Reply)

I read that as jizz off.
I'm a sick woman.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:18, Reply)

You really are.
But we love you anyway.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:19, Reply)

Don't make me think about a /talk bash

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:20, Reply)

*envies*
That must have been the Thames Festival
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:19, Reply)

We saw that.
Bloody nightmare to get through wheeling a small suitcase.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:21, Reply)

I think it would most likely have been
when they held the vintage market. There were loads of 1950's type shenanigans going on here that week.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:22, Reply)

I didn't know it was on until it was nearly over. Gutted.
Had a great views of the closing fireworks from our hotel though. Being on the top floor has its advantages.
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:24, Reply)

It was more like
handicrafts, world food, and other overpriced shit.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:25, Reply)

That's just a normal day on The South Bank, I think...

( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:26, Reply)

No, it was a festival of some description

( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:28, Reply)

I was just being facetious, sorry.
I work on The South Bank and it seems there's always some overpriced something going on.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:29, Reply)

What do you do?
I'm up there a fair bit.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:31, Reply)

I'm a human statue of Mickey Mouse.
But sometimes I juggle. It's hard to combine the statue part with the juggling admittedly...


(actually I just work in an office near The Shell building).
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:33, Reply)

We saw one of them. It was quite bizarre.

( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:36, Reply)

I am a great fan of your work.

( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:48, Reply)

It was the Thames Festival that you saw.
Ignore him. Darth may have seen the gay 50's thing however.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:31, Reply)

Actually it was Melvyn Bragg's Birthday

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:31, Reply)

Bragg Hayes
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:37, Reply)

Joining the BFI (which I suspect is what you meant) is on my todo list
Last year's film festival was great, hope to make some of this year's too.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:22, Reply)

There's the BFI down by the NT
but there's also the actual London Film Museum in County Hall.

The latter is good fun, but not very educmacashional really.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:24, Reply)

Oh, that one.
Always looked pretty cheap and crappy from the outside, I'll check it out if it's any good.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:32, Reply)

I enjoyed it, yeah.
But it's really a collection of props and costumes and the like, doesn't really tell you a great deal coherently.

It's fun, but don't expect to learn much.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:34, Reply)

It's more whether it's worth the money really
But will give it more consideration than I had previously.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:36, Reply)

I went with the other half
on a 2 for 1 voucher, and it was definitely worth that, but full price...

I dunno, i think most London attractions are overpriced, but you can also get 2 for 1 for most of them with a valid train ticket, so I never pay full price anyway.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:37, Reply)

I enjoyed the Eye, even for £20
and I'm trying to get round all the other touristy things at some point as it seems silly to ignore them just because I live locally, might do some in the winter though when there may be less tourists.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:53, Reply)

Yes, The Eye is fantastic
that's probably the exception to the 'not worth the money' claim.

I started to make a point of doing things about 5 years ago when I had an a American friend visiting who was shocked that I kept saying 'I don't know, I've never been' to the question 'what is so and so like?'.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:56, Reply)

Similar.
My last 2 girlfriends were Russian and German, by birth, both knew London better than I. The Tower of London is the main one I want to do but haven't yet.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:59, Reply)

That's actually still on my list.
It taunts me every day, as I use Tower Hill, so I have a daily reminder of my failure to have been in there yet.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:01, Reply)

I think I'll try in over the winter.
and try and interest a few friends if I can. IO wonder if any of the London B3tans would be interested, it's a fair bet they've not been either.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:04, Reply)

I'd be happy to, certainly.

( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:15, Reply)

I will float the idea at some point.

( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:34, Reply)

BFI has a room where you can access for free anything from their archives.
Its quite cool
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:32, Reply)

There are people who understand and appreciate art who get to make the decisions about it.
this is why the Tate Modern is full of interesting and varied artwork not 1000's of stencils of stills from cult films.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:32, Reply)

You fancy this thread's legs?

( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:50, Reply)

This thread is Kristina Rihanoff AICMFP

(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:55, Reply)

Or ZZ Top

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:56, Reply)