Long thread is unwieldy.
Let's have a philosophical discussion.

Why do people still sell postcards, when everyone has a digital camera or a camera phone?

Alt: What puzzles you?
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:38, 251 replies, latest was 14 years ago)

To stick on the fridge

Alt:
Sticking postcards on the fridge
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:40, Reply)

Receiving something handwritten is far more personal than simply a picture message saying
"Wish U where her LOL!"

*feels dirty*

Alt: Anti abortionists.
( Agnostic Antichrist Baltimora, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:40, Reply)

They don't puzzle me, they think it's a life
They're wrong but at least we know why they are against it.
( Peej, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:23, Reply)

That has very little to do with it
It's mostly about punishing women for having sex.

www.amptoons.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/pro-life-belief-chart.png
( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:33, Reply)

I am puzzled by
* Why people read (and believe what they read in) the Daily Mail
* Anyone would want to play or watch football
* Exactly how big a cunt you have to be to be one of these fixed wheel cyclist cunts.
( Fucking hell Jeff I am not a robot, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:41, Reply)

Low IQ
It's a very interesting game, especially when played well
I don't know what one of those is.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:43, Reply)

Afternoon Mcb3th
How are we today?
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:44, Reply)

I'm still fucking knackered.
I feel like I could sleep for a week. I have a shitload of unpacking and laundry to do before I can even think about starting work again.
At the moment I'm wasting the entire day on here, and trying not to fall asleep.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:46, Reply)

Airing your dirty laundry on here then?

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:47, Reply)

I can do, if you want. Anything you're interested in particularly?

( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:48, Reply)

*is not sure how to reply to this without sounding like a massive pervert*

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:49, Reply)

I think that ship sailed long ago

( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:49, Reply)

*titanics*

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:50, Reply)

On the thrid point:
A fucking big one. Even worse are the one who pretend to ride fixed gear but have a free-wheel as they aspire to be cunts.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:46, Reply)

I truly hate them. I have a plan to stop all cyclists running red lights - when the light turns to amber a series of wires strung across the road are automatically raised from the ground. Any cunt, regardless of height would then be decapitated if they attempt to run a red light. The wires would then fall when the light turns green.
( Fucking hell Jeff I am not a robot, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:00, Reply)

Genius

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:02, Reply)

Get's my vote.

( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:24, Reply)

I sometimes read the mail
It's the only daily that really covers courts and crime.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:13, Reply)

Nothing wrong with fixed wheel bikes
on a track. The cunts in shoreditch would still be cunt even without the bike.
( Peej, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:24, Reply)

Electricity puzzles me
I have absolutely no idea at all how it works. I can only assume devilry is at work in there somewhere

*peers down plug*
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:43, Reply)

Best of all the Bash Street Kids

( Bill Clay a.k.a. Claudio, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:25, Reply)

haha!
He was that
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:26, Reply)

It's tradition or an old charter or something
There's still probably a good sized generation of people who consider postcards the norm and a generation below them who find them nostalgic.

Alt: Cryptic crosswords. My brain just doesn't function in the right way to be able to have the first fucking clue what the answers are.
( Bill Clay a.k.a. Claudio, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:44, Reply)

I keep every postcard I receive
I've got some extremely worrying ones.

There's a mystery one from someone from b3ta which came to my old work address which was pretty fucking scary.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:48, Reply)

That was your old address? Damn
*updates spreadsheet*
( Bill Clay a.k.a. Claudio, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:56, Reply)

Because not everyone has a digital camera or a cameraphone
Also you cannot stick digital photo's to the fridge, you also cannot always take the same pictures that they have on postcards your self and sometimes, even if you could you'd rather just pay 50p for a post card. In short, you really haven't though this through, have you?

Alt: Why people ask stupid questions. Also what joy people derive from coming on internet messages boards and being consistently cuntish to everyone. Also people in general.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:44, Reply)

Cuntish can be funny though
If it is funny then it is fine
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:45, Reply)

When it is occasional, maybe
when it is constant, not so much.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:47, Reply)

Agreed
*nods in CQ's direction*
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:48, Reply)

*cries*

( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:47, Reply)

Things that puzzle me
1. Why people believe in ghosts, homoeopathy, religion.
2. Why Americans all claim to be 'Irish', 'Italian' etc.
3. Why people wear ties (they seem pretty ridiculous to me)
4. why people with no artistic training feel competent to talk about art and why doesn't this apply to other things.
5. What connection the crisis in Palestine has with cuts to public services in the UK, or any of the other myriad protests you see the Palestinian flag waved at for that matter.
6. Why is it acceptable to wear clothes branded with the emblems and names of the Soviet Union but not ok to go around wearing the equivalent symbols of Nazi German.
7. Why trainers are so expensive.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:45, Reply)

Also magnets

( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:45, Reply)

I agree.
Magnets are the devils work.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:53, Reply)

No, that's peppers.

( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:54, Reply)

Do you not like peppers?

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:55, Reply)

There's obviously some chemical in them that doesn't agree with me.
I can't be in the same room as them. And I can tell if they've just been in the rrrom before I got there. And on the odd occasions I haven't been able to get out of eating them, I discovered they taste horrible too.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:57, Reply)

Interesting
I like them though they do not like me

*burps*
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:58, Reply)

Answers:
1. Stupidity
2. Stupidity
3. Not a clue
4. It does!
5. They like to riot
6. I NO RITE
7. ??
8. Profit
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:47, Reply)

Art is purely subjective.
It doesn't matter how well you wield a paintbrush if no-one likes your paintings.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:52, Reply)

Liking pictures, sculptures, etc is all well and good
I just hate the pretentiousness of "It show mankind's struggle agsint consumerism, juxtaposed with the suffering of the red squirrel" fucking bollocks that they all go on about.

No, its a picture/sculpture/etc...
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:02, Reply)

There is so much art in the world and you don't have to like or understand all of it.

( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:08, Reply)

For me, it isn't about understanding it at all
I dont have to understand the Mona Lisa but I can appreciate that is is quite well painted
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:10, Reply)

No problem. Modern art is more about ideas and concepts than beauty or storytelling.
Art can make us think as well as smile or feel sad. A lot of modern art leaves me cold too and I went to art school.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:14, Reply)

I have nothing against modern art per se
It is just the whole unmade bed with condoms shite that gets on my tits. I even like some of Damien Hirst's stuff
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:15, Reply)

Haha! You should have seen my installation in my final year.

( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:17, Reply)

Tell the group please.....

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:18, Reply)

Is was about violence against women and it was crap.
It involved a life size rag doll and a video on loop of my face being slapped. There were other factors but for the life of me I can't remember.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:20, Reply)

My mate's boyfriend is an "artist"
He stood in the corner of a room with a lampshade on his head and a video camera as a piece once

W.T.F.
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:22, Reply)

Was his cock the light switch?
Like Jesus
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:25, Reply)

I have to say I do not know the answer to this

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:26, Reply)

I could see how not understanding something would frustrate you when it isn't instantly accessible.
A person who understands art a little better might get more from it than you and might well be better qualified to talk about it.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:20, Reply)

So there is art for the masses and art for other artists?

( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:22, Reply)

This is the puzzle for me.
If I wrote a novel, it wouldn't be reviewed by people who couldn't read very well, people who couldn't read at all couldn't really hope to experience it as it was intended, obviously they could get an audiobook or have someone explain it to them but something essential to it would be lost.

It would be common ground amongst most people that an expert in literature would be better placed to pass judgement on the novel and whilst people with no formal education in literature were free to read the novel and comment on it, in any consultation about the novel their opinion would not carry the same weight.

It seems to me that people with no formal education or training in art seem much happier to chime in with 'I know what I like' and 'a 5 year old could have done it' and expect to be taken seriously. This puzzles me and I don't think it should be indulged.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:24, Reply)

I doubt very much Joe Bloggs expect to be taken seriously when passing judgement on art or literature.
They are just giving their opinion whether right or wrong. I'm quite well read for a non literature buff but I wouldn't expect anyone to take my opinion seriously when judging a book.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:30, Reply)

So people who read a book and don't like it should not be allowed to tell others why they didn't like it
because they have no formal training in literature?

*edit* What I mean is the same as Blousie really. just because people have an opinion on something doesn't mean they will be taken seriously at all. I went to Vatican City and had a look at all the fancy paintings and statues. I know nothing of Ancient Roman Art but I still felt qualified to say to people, hey you should go see that stuff it was awesome.

The people who comment on art with no formal training seem to only get told off for it when they say something negative. When they say "I love that bed/shark/glass of water" no-one has a problem. When they say "That's shit" they're opinion isn't valid because they aren't trained.
( Peej, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:31, Reply)

It was the elitist eliment in art school that really pushed my buttons when I was there.

( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:38, Reply)

I work for a top 20 art college/university
99% of the stuff I see created is toss but the students strut about like they are geniuses. My brother has a fine art degree, he is 23, unemployed and has only ever found unskilled labouring jobs.
( Peej, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:43, Reply)

Would you say literature was purely subjective?

( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:14, Reply)

In so far as what the story is, yes.
Obviously spelling and punctuation are the artist's paintbrush in that respect.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:26, Reply)

I saw art attack once, I feel fully emboldened as a result to pass comment on 'art'

( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:59, Reply)

Buchanan!

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:59, Reply)

Bukkakke!

( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:00, Reply)

*SPUNKS*

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:02, Reply)

1) Because they want to explain what is conceptually unexplainable to them; I am one of these people.
2) Because they're seriously culturly insecure in regards to their roots.
3) To add an air of occasion to an occasion; in my case.
4) Because unless the 'art' is made to only be viewed by the fellow art comunity, then it is made for public concumption, and as such, they are allowed to have an opinion on that something.
5) Donno
6) Donno eaither.
7) Gross mark-ups between the manufacturing owners and the high street. I don't see 'nike' as the ones taking advantage of the poor, but more like who Nike are paying to manufacture. And to tell you the truth, a lot of people in these poor countries are waaay better off under a sweatshop system than not; at least they can eat. Not saying it's right, not in the slightest, but it's the owners of these sweatshops who are doing the grose abuse of people... but ask any of them if they'd rather earn $1/day and be able to eat, or earn nothing and not, most of them would say they would preffer it.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:20, Reply)

Why do women get a raging libido in later life. It makes no sense.
Why does my nephew hate nuts. I don't think he's ever eaten one.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:48, Reply)

I hope those two thoughts aren't linked in your thought process.

( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:49, Reply)

My brother hates mushrooms
I'm pretty sure he's never eaten one.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:49, Reply)

Mushrooms are fucking brilliant!

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:50, Reply)

^This
As a vegetarian's boyfriend, I'm pretty sure I would have either starved to death or staged some sort of anti-Tofu (dirty) protest by now if not for mushrooms.
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:03, Reply)

Roasted mushrooms with butter, garlic and a tiny amount of Worcester sauce
in a bun with mustard. Fucking nom
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:06, Reply)

Tofu = devil's food.

( Fucking hell Jeff I am not a robot, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:09, Reply)

Quorn.
What is the fucking point? Seriously? It tastes *nothing* like meat.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:12, Reply)

It's not really supposed to.
It's a protein suppliment.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:14, Reply)

*SPUNKS*

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:16, Reply)

If it's not supposed to taste like meat
why do they have 'quorn sausages', 'quorn mince', 'quorn fish fingers' etc?
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:23, Reply)

Familiarity.

( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:36, Reply)

Contempt

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:40, Reply)

No, it doesn't
But it's vastly preferable to Tofu when bulking out a stir fry, believe me.
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:17, Reply)

I don't mind it myself, it's easy on the digestion, _can_ be flavourable, _can_ have a great texture.
What I don't like is when it's pretending to be meat though
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:20, Reply)

I demand "vegetarian's boyfriend"
replaces "friend of Dorothy" as top bumder euphamism.

sorry Darth old chap, for once this isn't a memeattack, I just think it sounds brilliant and covers all the bases
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:38, Reply)

The only meat I eat is his
*points*
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:40, Reply)

How late? my wife is 25 how long before a get loads of sexytimes?
With I be to tired by then?
( Peej, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:37, Reply)

I'm going to lunch in quarter of an hour, save the good stuff for when I get back, this thread has legs I fancy
Alt: Christians, Manchester, the Tate Modern, the enduring popularity of Harry Hill, science
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:49, Reply)

What puzzles you about the Tate Modern?

( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:50, Reply)

Modern art?
10 million hand crafted sunflower seeds? Fuck off
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:51, Reply)

The artist was telling you about China through the art of clay.
China is famous for it's pottery skillz.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:55, Reply)

and its sunflowers

( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:57, Reply)

No, the artist was telling me he is a massive bellend
for making 10 million seeds out of clay. It is art with a silent F
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:57, Reply)

+UCK OFF

(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:59, Reply)

Nottingham is famous for lace, Robin Hood and gun crime
but I'm pretty sure that if I asked to suspend an AK-47 wrapped in a doily from the ceiling by a pair of green tights I'd be told to get to fuck, and rightly so.
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:09, Reply)

lacist

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:09, Reply)

*click*
Works on two levels
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:12, Reply)

Maybe
but I suspect that's because almost no thought whatsoever has gone into the work.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:17, Reply)

If you've been to the Tate in the last year you'll have seen a three-canvas installation by Cy Twombly
in which he has literally gone to town on each with a red brush. Apparently it signifies rage and ecstasy. I would argue it represents laziness, or the result of a drunken bet to see if the Tate Modern will show any old wank, however devoid of artistic merit, as long as there's an established artist's name attached.

At least my idea has three different elements.
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:23, Reply)

This is an interesting illustration of my puzzle
I am not competent right now to explain to you what (if anything) is interesting or important about the work.

I don't know when it was made (he only died this year), how it was painted, how large it is, when it was bought by the Tate, how established Twombly was as an artist when he made it. I haven't even seen the piece of work!

There is a huge amount of data, direct and contextual that you need to understand in order to get, if you will the big picture.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:28, Reply)

I disagree entirely
That is like saying "Well, he's dead and famous so therefore it must be good"
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:30, Reply)

How is it anything like saying that?
What I said was almost the exact opposite of that.

The context and intention behind the artwork is important in understanding whether or not it is interesting. It isn't enough to look at the art say 'I don't like it' and move on. That's just as simplistic as saying 'he;s famous therefore its good'.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:35, Reply)

What does when the Tate bought it have to do with liking it more or less?
Or when it was made?
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:36, Reply)

Lets say he'd made loads of paintings of swans and then suddenly he made this new thing and immediately the Tate bought it.
This creates a different context to
He made fucking thousands of the things that all looked the same and the Tate only bought it just after he died because it could get it cheap before the price went up.

Different context again.

I appreciate this might be new to you so sorry if I'm going a bit fast.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:49, Reply)

Makes absolutely fuck all difference to whether to like it or not
You either like something or don't. Context doesn't come into it
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:53, Reply)

I like "The importance of being Ernest"
but without understanding the context I doubt I'd find it very funny at all.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:55, Reply)

Moving it across to a film is slightly different I think
I know film is "art" before you fucking start
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:57, Reply)

"The importance of being Ernest" is a play
maybe the work of Hogarth might be a better example.
Taken out of context it isn't half as interesting, witty and enjoyable.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:07, Reply)

Now with a painting by Hogarth
there are already embedded visual clues that allow you to guess pretty accurately at the historical context.Art doesn't exist in a vacuum.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:08, Reply)

I do appreciate that
Over the course of our visit we joined four tours elaborating on various pieces, and I learned a lot about the artists, their motivations and histories and what was going into some of the work which I otherwise wouldn't have understood at all. Nonetheless certain things leave me totally perplexed as to why anyone would show interest. I can't help but wonder if there were art critics aplenty who were thinking, but didn't dare to say, "Hang on... this is shite!" for fear that their peers would decry them.
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:33, Reply)

The "Emperor's New Clothes"

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:35, Reply)

Remember that a piece of art can be important whilst not being particularly good.
Imagine if you had a museum devoted to the appreciation of mobile phones.
there would be some which were interesting because they were really well designed and looked really nice, sure but there would be others that it was important to have in the museum because they demonstrated some movement or moment in phone technology, design or use that was interesting and flavoured some other part.

Clearly there are going to be pieces of art that leave us cold. I don't enjoy Cy Twobley's work for instance but I am able to appreciate its place in the grander scheme of art and understanding it allows me to better understand some other artists like Robert Rauschenberg or Jasper Johns, whose work I really enjoy.

then you start to see connections and patterns emerge that allow the work to convey other meanings.

I used to not like Barnet Newman's work very much but I read a lot about some other Jewish American painters at the time and seeing Newman's work and its message within that context gave it a meaning and power I hadn't appreciated in it before.

You want to know what critics thought about the work, go and read what they said! Most critics hate new things, some of the most vociferous and unpleasant things I've read by critics have been against artworks which are now considered masterpieces in their various fields.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:45, Reply)

Some people will never GET IT no matter how much background info they have.

( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:34, Reply)

Perhaps
what's your point?
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:37, Reply)

Give me a minute while I think of the best way to phrase this.
I'm not good with words.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:41, Reply)

If this was countdown most of the studio audience would have fucked off by now

( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:53, Reply)

Unless Rachel Riley was on screen

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:53, Reply)

Cor

( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:54, Reply)

indeed

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:55, Reply)

I'd like to hold hands with her

( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:56, Reply)

It's no good.
I do have a point but cannot put it into words. This is probably why I prefer drawing to writing.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:56, Reply)

You could tell us, though the medium of dance!

( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:57, Reply)

*bops*

( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:00, Reply)

*pogos*

( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:03, Reply)

I love that name.
You'd have to be an artist with a name like that.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:35, Reply)

He MUST have lived in Wimbledon

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:37, Reply)

Modern art is a period in art history that ends int he 1960's
True, the Tate Modern has a fair amount of modern art in it, it also has some contemporary art and art since 1960.

Is it all of the art that puzzles you or just some bits of it?
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:16, Reply)

What Sportscow said
We spent 6 fucking hours in there on Thursday. I tried so hard to understand and appreciate it for Ms Foxtrot's sake, but some of the stuff in there really is just utter shite that a child could have done.
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:56, Reply)

Thank goodness you're back in Norfolk then, you wouldn't want to be thinking too much about your surroundings.

( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:03, Reply)

There's some really nice stuff there too though

( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:04, Reply)

Very true
but the question was "What puzzles you?" and the addition of impressive artwork to unadulterated toss only exacerbates the confusion.
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:06, Reply)

There's a fair bit I don't get, but having it just around the corner from me (relatively speaking) and free is one of life's joys.

( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:10, Reply)

The British Film Museum is just along the river
Go to that instead, make up for my not being able to due to the aforementioned six fucking hours. God knows your film appreciation could do with some revision.
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:14, Reply)

The day we were there
we walked along the embankment from the Eye, and saw a massive jive-off on a big temporary dance floor.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:17, Reply)

I read that as jizz off.
I'm a sick woman.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:18, Reply)

You really are.
But we love you anyway.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:19, Reply)

Don't make me think about a /talk bash

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:20, Reply)

*envies*
That must have been the Thames Festival
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:19, Reply)

We saw that.
Bloody nightmare to get through wheeling a small suitcase.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:21, Reply)

I think it would most likely have been
when they held the vintage market. There were loads of 1950's type shenanigans going on here that week.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:22, Reply)

I didn't know it was on until it was nearly over. Gutted.
Had a great views of the closing fireworks from our hotel though. Being on the top floor has its advantages.
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:24, Reply)

It was more like
handicrafts, world food, and other overpriced shit.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:25, Reply)

That's just a normal day on The South Bank, I think...

( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:26, Reply)

No, it was a festival of some description

( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:28, Reply)

I was just being facetious, sorry.
I work on The South Bank and it seems there's always some overpriced something going on.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:29, Reply)

What do you do?
I'm up there a fair bit.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:31, Reply)

I'm a human statue of Mickey Mouse.
But sometimes I juggle. It's hard to combine the statue part with the juggling admittedly...


(actually I just work in an office near The Shell building).
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:33, Reply)

We saw one of them. It was quite bizarre.

( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:36, Reply)

I am a great fan of your work.

( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:48, Reply)

It was the Thames Festival that you saw.
Ignore him. Darth may have seen the gay 50's thing however.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:31, Reply)

Actually it was Melvyn Bragg's Birthday

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:31, Reply)

Bragg Hayes
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:37, Reply)

Joining the BFI (which I suspect is what you meant) is on my todo list
Last year's film festival was great, hope to make some of this year's too.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:22, Reply)

There's the BFI down by the NT
but there's also the actual London Film Museum in County Hall.

The latter is good fun, but not very educmacashional really.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:24, Reply)

Oh, that one.
Always looked pretty cheap and crappy from the outside, I'll check it out if it's any good.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:32, Reply)

I enjoyed it, yeah.
But it's really a collection of props and costumes and the like, doesn't really tell you a great deal coherently.

It's fun, but don't expect to learn much.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:34, Reply)

It's more whether it's worth the money really
But will give it more consideration than I had previously.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:36, Reply)

I went with the other half
on a 2 for 1 voucher, and it was definitely worth that, but full price...

I dunno, i think most London attractions are overpriced, but you can also get 2 for 1 for most of them with a valid train ticket, so I never pay full price anyway.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:37, Reply)

I enjoyed the Eye, even for £20
and I'm trying to get round all the other touristy things at some point as it seems silly to ignore them just because I live locally, might do some in the winter though when there may be less tourists.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:53, Reply)

Yes, The Eye is fantastic
that's probably the exception to the 'not worth the money' claim.

I started to make a point of doing things about 5 years ago when I had an a American friend visiting who was shocked that I kept saying 'I don't know, I've never been' to the question 'what is so and so like?'.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:56, Reply)

Similar.
My last 2 girlfriends were Russian and German, by birth, both knew London better than I. The Tower of London is the main one I want to do but haven't yet.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:59, Reply)

That's actually still on my list.
It taunts me every day, as I use Tower Hill, so I have a daily reminder of my failure to have been in there yet.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:01, Reply)

I think I'll try in over the winter.
and try and interest a few friends if I can. IO wonder if any of the London B3tans would be interested, it's a fair bet they've not been either.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:04, Reply)

I'd be happy to, certainly.

( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:15, Reply)

I will float the idea at some point.

( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:34, Reply)

BFI has a room where you can access for free anything from their archives.
Its quite cool
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:32, Reply)

There are people who understand and appreciate art who get to make the decisions about it.
this is why the Tate Modern is full of interesting and varied artwork not 1000's of stencils of stills from cult films.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:32, Reply)

You fancy this thread's legs?

( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:50, Reply)

This thread is Kristina Rihanoff AICMFP

(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:55, Reply)

Or ZZ Top

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:56, Reply)

Well, it's nice isn't it
taking your own photos is all very well, but usually you can't get the best view because the weather is shit, or your vantage point isn't as good as the professional photographer ones. And they're fun to receive; it's a lot more personal than a text or seeing somebody's holiday snaps on facebook.

Creationists. I understand why some people believe in God; that's fine as long as you don't try and persuade me that you're right and I'm wrong. But creationism...words fail me, they really do. I'll just have to settle for this: *BELM*
(berk, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:54, Reply)

I agree with you 100%
something about a newsletter, I forget.

Also, how most Christians ignore most of the stuff Jesus(allegedly) said.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:05, Reply)

Why do old people wear so much biege?

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:13, Reply)

To blend in
Ninjas, the lot of them
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:14, Reply)

Is biege some Ape word for snot?

(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:14, Reply)

Yes, I'll rephrase for you
'Why do old people wear so much ape snot?'
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:18, Reply)

Because you have a nose like Barry Manilow
and the respect for the aged of an Eskimo.
(Darth Foxtrot A one-man army dedicated to making fetch happen, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:19, Reply)

Well old people are a bit shit

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:20, Reply)

Innuit

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:20, Reply)

izzzit?

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:21, Reply)

Yupik

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:23, Reply)

Bright colours confuse them.

( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:15, Reply)

I can't buy
a postcard of my cat eating pizza.


And I can't take a photo of some bare breasts painted to resemble mice saying 'All the breast from London'
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:21, Reply)

I think this sums up the postcard/picture debate nicely

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:24, Reply)

I donno how someone can throw acid in their daughter's face because she got raped by a neighbour and got knocked up from it.

( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:27, Reply)

This^
Honour? WTF?
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:28, Reply)

I donno how someone can lead an army of people to rape, pilidge and murder other villages.

( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:28, Reply)

I donno how someone can consider someone else absolute and utter complete scum, because of the football team they support.

( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:29, Reply)

I donno how someone who's a fully functioning adult can't cook up any meals that they would enjoy...
... I can see how occasionally, or even more times than not, not being bothered.... but claiming they actually can't knock up some pasta and stir-in sauce (for example) is so beyond me. For a fully functioning adult.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:31, Reply)

How someone can abuse their family in any way shape or form.

( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:31, Reply)

How people can enjoy 'speedcore' and it's veriants.

( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:32, Reply)

*Googles, regrets, agrees*

( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:35, Reply)

My brother has a chap staying with him at the moment.
He's about 50, and has managed to reach that age with absolutely no dpomestic skills at all. He cannot iron (his 23 year old daughter comes round to do this for him) or cook. At all.

My brother was peeling some potatoes and he came over and asked him what he was doing. He didn't know how boiled potatoes were cooked.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:39, Reply)

Sounds "special"

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:41, Reply)

In the cab office, there were a lot of greeks/turks who were like that.
They grew up with Ma' or Gran cooking, only left home when they got wives, ended up devorced and back at their ma's place... some of them got their sisters to come 'round and do it all for them too. I think it's quite pathetic to tell you the truth, some of them can put together an edible steak, but that's about it.

Which is really really strange considering how embedded food is into their culture.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:57, Reply)

Evidently sexism is pretty well embedded too.

( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:05, Reply)

I am having a massive post lunch lull...might go for a power nap on the bog

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:36, Reply)

Fascinating.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:40, Reply)

Oh good 'you're' here

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:47, Reply)

I am puzzled about how defensive people get over art
Mathematics is far more beautiful.
( Peej, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:48, Reply)

Yeah, well you what else is beautiful...YOUR MUM*


* truth be told she's a bit of munter
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:50, Reply)

My mother is younger than a lot of B3tans that frequent OT
So isn't actually as munterish as you might imagine
( Peej, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:54, Reply)

go on...

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:56, Reply)

Ummm
48, Blonde, slim, goes to those bloody zumba classes and swims a lot. Likes 70's rock music, owns a Yamaha FJ1200 and 2 proper arcade pinball machines, drinks pints and like live music. Got married in Vegas by Elvis to her third husband two years ago, he is a 6'4" massive biker dude.
( Peej, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:09, Reply)

Would!

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:37, Reply)

It is odd isn't it?
Personally I don't particularly see the beauty in Maths in the same way, or appreciate it as such, but I doubt you will call me a philistine or impugn my ability to judge based on this.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:51, Reply)

I have no formal training in Maths so cannot comment sorry

( Peej, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:53, Reply)

It's to do with how the brain is wired I believe.
Some people have maths brains and some do not.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:57, Reply)

but you wouldn't indulge someone coming up to a huge complicated equation and saying
'This is crap, I don't get it, its rubbish my 5 year old daughter could have done it, its just lines on a page and random numbers'

would you?
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:57, Reply)

People say this sort of thing about art
and don't feel like idiots.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:58, Reply)

There is a point to a mathematic equation though
It has an answer
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:58, Reply)

Lets say the equation reached the wrong answer
and the bloke was bad at maths.

Does that then validate the same opinion? 'This is crap I don't understand it, my daughter etc'

Of course not.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:01, Reply)

Then it would be shite

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:02, Reply)

but the person looking at it wouldn't know this.

( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:03, Reply)

I think you are missing the point
The beauty of maths is in the patterns and symmetries, etc.

11,22,33
9,19,27 all adding up to 9, etc.
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:08, Reply)

you meant 18 right?

( Peej, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:10, Reply)

Of course I didn't
*looks round nervously*
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:22, Reply)

Here we go.
I don't understand maths, I've never really been taught it beyond GCSE level, in this conversation your opinion carries much more weight.

Why doesn't this apply to art? Where does the idea that once an artist makes a piece of work the public somehow own it, I don't make art for other people, I make it for me and people that might be interested in it.

I suspect mathematicians couldn't give a fig what bloke in the street thinks about their work.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:11, Reply)

If that's the case then why are you bothered what other people think?

( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:14, Reply)

That's not the case
It's only when art is displayed in a public that it invites comment. When the comments are positive its fine, when they are negative they are unqualified to comment.
( Peej, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:18, Reply)

If you're going to be an artist you are going to have to get used to people having an opinion on your work.
Whether they are 'experts' or not. It comes with the territory.

There are some artists who are technically very good but paint boring pictures. Which is more important, the knowledge and ability or the message?
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:09, Reply)

This is my puzzle
Why do we tolerate this in art when we wouldn't tolerate it in any other area of human endeavour. It might be that art is just really unimportant, that might be the answer, I don't know. Hence it being one of my puzzles.
( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:59, Reply)

Is the whole point of art that it is not necessary?
Maths solves problems, statues don't
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:00, Reply)

How else would the illiterate masses know who controls them?

( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:03, Reply)

Is it pigeons?

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:03, Reply)

Mass literacy is relatively recent, coins and statues would convey to the public who their lord master and god was
See the continuation of the Roman equestrian statue throughout history
( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:06, Reply)

Art is necessary.
It's one of the things that sets us apart from the animals.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:03, Reply)

What about that painting elephant?

( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:05, Reply)

It isn't necessary though
It is just nice (in some cases), scary, good, bad, pretentious, etc.
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:05, Reply)

Animals make art
Maths sets us apart from the animals!
( Peej, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:05, Reply)

What about counting horses?

( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:09, Reply)

That would be a boring job.

( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:10, Reply)

I bet you'd get a lot of sleep though.

( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:15, Reply)

Counting isn't maths
My Daughter can count but she can't do multiplications
( Peej, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:11, Reply)

Yes but when you say to the horse "what's 2 X 2"
It taps it's hoof 4 times. I've seem it, it was dead impressive.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:12, Reply)

Trained to do it I bet
Like when that bloke in that film taught his kid to spell really long words but she couldn't spell cat. I bet the horse couldn't spell cat either!
( Peej, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:26, Reply)

but we are all trained to do Maths
it's not like it's innate.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:29, Reply)

Of course he couldn't.
He's a mathmatician, not Mr Ed.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:29, Reply)

No they don't.
Name me one animal that makes art.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:11, Reply)

Apes
Oh and Elephants
( Peej, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:12, Reply)

POIDH

( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:13, Reply)

Clever fucker eh?
( Peej, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:15, Reply)

Pics
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:15, Reply)

Ok then....................show me a pic of an animal that isn't a human that has produced art without being aided by a human.

( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:17, Reply)

My dog once did a shit
that looked like The Virgin Mary.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:19, Reply)

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:19, Reply)

A lot of human artists are aided by humans
and apes have been knows to use white clay to paint in the wild
( Peej, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:23, Reply)

Also along this line
I cannot do art, does this make me not human?

It's not that I doubt the importance of art, I just don't think it's essential to being human.

Same goes for Maths BTW.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:31, Reply)

Can you re-phrase?
I cannot make sense of that sentence.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:24, Reply)

Humans.

( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:13, Reply)

I've often wondered about the importance of art
of course art is important as it is another way of documenting history. Like music for example.

If we destroyed every artwork would the world end? No but it would be less interesting.
( Peej, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:05, Reply)

There's an answer to maths, art is more ambiguous

( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:00, Reply)

So those people aren't idiots?

( WormuIus, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:03, Reply)

When dealing in the world of the subjective why bother drawing any great conclusions.
Art's a personal experience.
( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:04, Reply)

Well
If someone wrote 2+2=4 on a piece of paper unless it was done by your 3 year old kid no-one would be impressed the same goes for people who look art and go "but a 5 year old could have done that"

People don't generally go up to beautifully complicated paintings and say they are crap. They go up to the artwork that appears lazy and say it.

Believe me, there really are a lot of people in the maths world saying "That huge complicated equation is crap!"
( Peej, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 14:02, Reply)

Hardly the same thing.

( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Sep 2011, 13:58, Reply)