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(, Sun 1 Apr 2001, 1:00)
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I hate people who bang on about the music industry based on the opinion of one of their "mates"
and only that.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 14:45, 1 reply, 13 years ago)
You're right, first hand accounts from inside the industry - what would they know???

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 14:47, Reply)
I always get tips on how the Oil price will change over the next 2 years from the guy at Total who sells me fags.

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 14:49, Reply)
I have tried that.
I don't recommend you buy shares on the strength of said advice.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 14:51, Reply)
I imagine all his colleagues were only joking when they said they were made redundant and cleared their desks.
And left the building and never came back again. Really they're just on holiday I expect. And that relocation to smaller premises and the doubling of everyone's workloads was just a crazy dream.

The redundancy consultation process that the entire department went through twice in two years was actually just a wind-up because really they were doing great! That and the fact that it was only a shitty little firm - Universal are small fry.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 14:50, Reply)
I'm not saying people haven't been made redundant from universal.
What I don't believe is that it's because of piracy. I mean it may be because of that.
But do you think that it could be that they've been planing a takeover of EMI for the last three years and maybe they didn't need as many staff in London? I mean just a thought.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 14:54, Reply)
If your industry consists of selling stuff
which no-one is buying any more because they've beeen getting it free, you are in trouble.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 14:57, Reply)
Conversely, Chompy's problem is the other way around.
His industry has been providing its services for free, but some people think it will ultimately have to be paid for.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 14:59, Reply)
It's a waqqqi old world!!!!

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:01, Reply)
Bollocks.

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:05, Reply)
Adele's already sold 50million albums in 4 years.

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:15, Reply)
She probably ate them.
The fat bobbins.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:19, Reply)
To you.

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:19, Reply)
Rihanna has outsold The Doors and barry manilow.

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:25, Reply)
This is the end

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:28, Reply)
In Milton Keynes

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:29, Reply)
Beyonce has outsold Nirvana and the Spice Girls

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:27, Reply)
In your house

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:29, Reply)
Taylor Swift has outsold Bob Dylan.

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:28, Reply)
You are floundering
because you like to think of yourself as right-on and moral but the fact of the matter is you've nicked* stuff which you should have paid thousands of pounds for, you know it's wrong and no amount of Taylor Swift albums will assuage the underlying unease you feel about being dishonest, repeatedly and over a long period of time.

*whatever name you choose to give it. How about Nigel? You've Nigelled it all, OK?
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:34, Reply)
I don't torrent music by the way, I had a pro spotify account.
Before that I had the paid for napster, before that I nicked my housemates CD's at uni.
Now I just use youtube if I really want to listen to something or listen to the radio.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:40, Reply)
Just games and films then?

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:50, Reply)
TV shows mainly.
I don't torrent games because I use Steam. Here's an interview with the guy who runs steam about piracy. www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-11-28-valve-piracy-a-non-issue-for-steam
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:55, Reply)
Here's a link about how ABC has reduced piracy on TV shows
www.news.com.au/technology/abc-warps-time-to-put-dr-who-online-early-at-iview/story-e6frfro0-1226460269988
This is the sort of thing that stops piracy, make what you sell better than what the pirates offer and bingo.
Waaahhing about the terrible theft won't stop anything.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 16:02, Reply)
This is so true
I love steam, I've bought loads of games through it.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 16:03, Reply)
Monty, calm down, no-one here has argued that dowloading stuff via torrents and not paying for it is morally correct in any way
all we've done is consistantly pointed out that what it most certainly is not, is theft. It just isn't. It doesn't matter how annoyed you get or how many friends you know in the music industry, downloading copies of music from the internet is not theft.

It may be wrong, it may be right, it may not be a love song (/music reference).
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:41, Reply)
I hope you're going to pay for that reference.

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:42, Reply)
I got it off the internet, you don't have to pay for things on the internet.

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:43, Reply)
That's alright then.

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:49, Reply)
Except that studies have demonstrated that people who download music and movies
actually tend to pay for more music and movies as well. The real problem is them sinking millions into shit that only retards would listen to/watch.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:22, Reply)
They volunteered for redundancy. Rather than work with 'Chompy.

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 14:54, Reply)
Anyone who bases their opinion on something their mate said definitely happend
is a twat.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:04, Reply)
What if your mate is Jonathan Sumption?

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:10, Reply)
Widespread redundancies throughout the music industry haven't been happening at all.

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:10, Reply)
Even if they were (which they haven't, it's all made up by my friend)
it's just because of the EMI takeover and are specific to those two companies. But they haven't anyway so that's alright.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:12, Reply)
I used to own EMI.
True story.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:20, Reply)
actually Monty
A mate of mine has a 'record' label who sell their tracks via Beatport, you know, paid for downloads to support his business. He regularly finds tracks of his on torrent sites, which means that these are genuine instances of torrents equating to lost sales.

I would name the underground house label in question, but then my cover would be blown.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:22, Reply)
No they aren't.
Just because something is torrented doesn't mean it is a lost sale. You have provided no evidence for this being the case.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:29, Reply)
Every time I listen to the radio I'm stealing a sale.

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:31, Reply)
I hummed a tune this morning and the artist that wrote it commited suicide because he could no longer afford cheese.

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:32, Reply)
Ever heard of PRS?
Friends of mine get occasional cheques from radio play of stuff they wrote years ago. Money. Going to the artist.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:37, Reply)
in his view they are.
I've torrented stuff before, some of it I have later bought on a physical format, some not, but if the only way to buy them is digitally, and I acquire digital versions without paying then there is dishonesty at work. It drives him mental when he finds the torrents, it really does.

On the whole though, I'm ambivalent about it. There's loads of stuff I torrent that I would never buy, so no lost sales. It's a grey area really.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:33, Reply)
NO NO NO HE'S WRONG. WHAT WOULD HE KNOW?
AND THE FACT THAT YOU'RE PASSING ON THE FIRST HAND OPINIONS OF AN INDUSTRY INSIDER MAKES YOU A 'TWAT' BECAUSE HE IS YOUR MATE - IT SAYS SO UP THERE. IF YOU DON'T KNOW THEM AND THEY ARE, SAY, A JOURNALIST, IT'S FINE THOUGH.

FFS.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:35, Reply)
Hang on, how do you reconcile these two statements:
"which means that these are genuine instances of torrents equating to lost sales"

and

"There's loads of stuff I torrent that I would never buy, so no lost sales"
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:38, Reply)
because he has no physical product to sell
Only the digital ones, which end up being torrented. It's not a loss leader situation.

I buy digital content very very rarely, I prefer to own artwork and sleeve etc.

In any case, he views these as lost sales with that lack of income having a direct impact on his bottom line.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:49, Reply)
So what? It still doesn't equate to a lost sale in exactly the same way that a download of a physical album doesn't equate a lost sale.

Following your edit, it still makes fuck all difference whether he views them as such or not, there is just not the evidence out there to suggest that a download equals a lost sale.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:51, Reply)
it's alright Al
I just emailed him a link to this thread. He's sending it on to his accountant. He's been a bit of a silly billy it deems!
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:54, Reply)
Yeah, joking aside, you don't actually have an answer though do you?
You've already said yourself that you download stuff you wouldn't buy, so no matter how angry he gets that someone is sharing his stuff via torrents or whatever, it still doesn't mean that people who would otherwise have bought his stuff are getting it for free. They are just as likely to be downloading it and going "this is shit".
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:58, Reply)
Perhaps he should release less shit music?

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 16:00, Reply)
I would if I were him.
I'd release stuff that people actually wanted to buy.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 16:01, Reply)
I'm ambivalent about it.
Just saying that someone who's livelihood depends on selling downloads views the illegal distribution of hid products as theft. He's not a lawyer, neither am I and neither are you. But he gets angry when he finds that his copyright has been violated. So crime, yes, theft, questionable. There needs to be a sale in the first place, so the uploader breaks the terms of use. That's illegal, but not theft.

Semantics semantics semantic Patel.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 16:03, Reply)
You've already said this
but the issue is that you started saying this "He regularly finds tracks of his on torrent sites, which means that these are genuine instances of torrents equating to lost sales" but as I've said, this is an incorrect statement.

And he can view the copyright infringement as theft all he likes, much like monty, but the fact that I am not a lawyer makes no difference to the fact that he is wrong.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 16:07, Reply)
His friend is an idiot.
Partially for this, but mainly for being friends with Dozer
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 16:15, Reply)
It's a gay area more like.
Like the one you live in.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:41, Reply)
NO, this is all made up.
I realise that now.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:30, Reply)
I love it when people on the internet pretend to misunderstand things in a deliberately humurous way.
It makes me think they're all like:

(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:31, Reply)
People who torrent music either would have bought it otherwise or they wouldn't
If they wouldn't - no lost sale.
If they would - that money hasn't disappeared, they'll just buy something else with it. And since they like music anyway, nothing says they can't have bought music.
(, Wed 3 Oct 2012, 15:56, Reply)

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