Hmm
Just to wade in with my 10 pence.

KMWIP's post, issues of whether he's a rapist/comitted a sexual assault are all well covered so I won't bore anyone with that.

The woman who Legless so callously refers to as a "bunny boiler" is still clearly fucked up by what happened to her. Others on here have said "well I was raped too" - fine, you're dealing with it. This woman is clearly not, so how about laying off the poor girl!?
( rofl harris, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 11:05, 2 replies)

Good Point!
.
I lied. It's a shite point.

The bunnie-boiler clearly does has issues and she's been through a terrible ordeal. However, that doesn't give her the right to call other men rapists when they're clearly not. That is bunnie-boiler behaviour.

I just calls it as I sees it...

Cheers
( Legless Mister Stabby - shanks for the memory, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 11:13, closed)

Legless
Are you a gayer?
You are, I knows it.
You love the bum fun.
Better look out for teh aids
(little lord muthafuckin fauntleroy, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 11:23, closed)

/Talk
is thataway ------
( Legless Mister Stabby - shanks for the memory, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 11:29, closed)

that cunt
isnt one of us mate :D
( Azra3l Lubrication Persuasion and Brute Force ™, Thu 2 Oct 2008, 1:38, closed)

Of course
I categorically agree that it does not give her the right to call other men rapists when they're clearly not - I just think it's harsh to name call on an open forum such as this, when the recipient is such an easy target, whom you agree has been through a "terrible ordeal".

All I'm saying is cut her some slack.
( rofl harris, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 11:30, closed)

I Would
but I'm deeply offended by her term "relationship overlap".

Until I get over that breathtaking euphemism I'm afraid I've no slack to cut her.

Might as well call her rape "an unexpected sexual encounter" and have done with it..


Cheers
( Legless Mister Stabby - shanks for the memory, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 11:35, closed)

Pfffffffft!

( jim_bob can herd cats., Tue 30 Sep 2008, 11:46, closed)

Calling it as you see it?
"I just calls it as I sees it..."

Ahhh the cry of the self-righteous tosspot. I'm pretty sure she was just calling it as she saw it as well. Legally I think she was wrong to call KMWIP a rapist, but she's more qualified than any of us to call it, since none of us have had capsaicin jammed up our ladybits. Even those of us who think that what KMWIP did was wrong (and probably illegal) concede that he's not a rapist. Why not just agree, therefore, that the "bunny-boiler" is wrong? You don't need to start deriding her to try to make a point, especially since she has had a pretty horrendous time, and her viewpoint is understandable.

As for "just deserts", to (misquote) Gandalf:

"Many that cheat deserve capsaicin up the ladybits. Some that get capsaicin up the ladybits deserve not to. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out capsaicin up the ladybits in judgment."

Thank god we don't live in a society where it's acceptable to dish out summary retribution for any and all slights, real or perceived.
(flimflam_machine, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 13:05, closed)

Snarf!
"Ahhh the cry of the self-righteous tosspot."

Glad you said that.We can dispense with the pleasantries and get right on to it.

"Legally I think she was wrong to call KMWIP a rapist, but she's more qualified than any of us to call it, since none of us have had capsaicin jammed up our ladybits."

Firstly, it's capsicum you illiterate. Secondly, that sentence doesn't make any sense. So having been raped qualifies someone to judge what rape is or isn't? Not the legal system? You sure about that? Following this logic seeing that I've had a parking ticket that qualifies me to judge what is or isn't a parking offence. Hmm. Your logic's not too hot there sport.



I'll leave the Gandalf quote as it's neither funny nor witty nor has anything to do with what we're talking about. (BTW - the main gist of which is that infidelity is wrong...)

But it's a shame that we don't live in a society where retribution can be dished out for infidelity. As I've mentioned, infidelity is one of the worst things one person can, legally, do to another. And if I had my way there should be some sort of comeback for the intense pain, heartbreak and physiological mayhem caused by such behaviour. KMWIP's actions might have been legally wrong but they were morally justified.


So any more names you'd like to call me? How about what you called your girlfriend when you found out she was cheating on you? Whore wasn't it? (Your profile is my friend)

So you can take your indignation and stick it up your arse and come back when you can string a coherent argument together.



Cheers
( Legless Mister Stabby - shanks for the memory, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 13:37, closed)

Over-reaction
"Firstly, it's capsicum you illiterate."

No it's not, unless KMWIP actually coerced his ex into sticking an entire chili pepper up her snatch:

Capsaicin /ˌkæpˈseˌɪ.sɪn/ (8-methyl-N-vanillyl-6-nonenamide) is the active component of chili peppers, which are plants belonging to the genus Capsicum. It is an irritant for mammals, including humans, and produces a sensation of burning in any tissue with which it comes into contact.


"Secondly, that sentence doesn't make any sense. So having been raped qualifies someone to judge what rape is or isn't? Not the legal system?"

Nope, the legal system gets the call, which is why I said "*Legally* I think she was wrong to call KMWIP a rapist."

Allow me to clarify, I think that the "bunny-boiler" ("BB" in the absence of her real name) is more qualified than any of us to explain the pain and (potentially long-term) psychological and physical damage that could have resulted from KMWIP's actions, since it has happened to her and to none of us. I thought KMWIP's original story was quite funny (I read it after this thread), but only because of the apparent absence of any long term effects to his ex which, as it tuns out in light of BB's comments, was through luck rather than judgement. Her comments (although legally incorrect) should have given us and KMWIP pause for thought.


"But it's a shame that we don't live in a society where retribution can be dished out for infidelity."

Such societies do exist, under sharia law people can be stoned to death for extra-marital sex. Although I don't believe that you'd advocate that, I simply think that you're wrong in saying that physical retribution is a morally justified comeback to emotional pain, and that's not because I haven't experienced the pain of being cheated on. In a divorce court infidelity would count against you, so it is recognised as being morally wrong. But potential physical/legal retribution for legal immorailities is just dangerous and difficult to implement and (more importantly) limit. What should there be legal retribution for? Emotional pain? Giving offense? Blasphemy?


"So any more names you'd like to call me?"

Nope, and apologies for giving offense. My point was that the "I call it like I see it" gambit is often used in order to over-simplify a situation and accompanied by glib, ad-hom labels ("bunny-boiler","self-righteous tosspot") that dismiss the writer, rather than dealing with why he/she is wrong. BB's labelling of KMWIP as a rapist was probably justified by such a thought process and was equally unhelpful.


"How about what you called your girlfriend when you found out she was cheating on you? Whore wasn't it?"

Nope, I never called her that. I wrote that word in a b3ta story, retrospectively for comic (in)effect.


"So you can take your indignation and stick it up your arse."

No thanks, who knows what could be on it! The indignation, it burns!
(flimflam_machine, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 14:18, closed)

Well
I'll give you the capsicum argument as my missus had already corrected me.

And seeing that you're playing nicely now, so will I.

I think there's a world of difference, hell a UNIVERSE of difference between KMWIP's case, where he rubbed chilli on a vibrator and his ex voluntarily had it stuck inside her. Yes, it would have hurt, yes it probably would have been excruciating, but I still think it was more than deserved. BB's case is entirely different. That was rape and then having chilli forced into her. I can't imagine how that must have been for her. But it's still a world away from KMWIP's case.

Cheers
( Legless Mister Stabby - shanks for the memory, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 14:30, closed)

Playing nicely
I agree it's a completely different situation and BB's experience was much much worse. But I do think that her description casts KMWIP's action in a rather less favourable (and less funny) light.

In a more general sense I think it worries me because there's such an increase in people feeling that they have to resort to physical retribution in response to having been given offence or suffering emotional pain. The apparent epidemic of knife crime in London is, I suspect, partly due to people's failure or inability to shrug off things that they should be able to deal with. Even if the intention isn't lethal, the outcome can be (I'm aware that a supermarket altercation isn't as emotionally traumatic as a relationship breakup):

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1025855/Murder-checkout-Shopper-killed-Sainsburys-queue-jumping-row.html

ETA: apologies for posting a link to the mail, I feel dirty. In case it's not clear from that article, he apparently punched (and killed) someone who was not involved with the original altercation.
(flimflam_machine, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 14:45, closed)

I'm Not
advocating physical retribution for infidelity but there should be *some* sort of payback. At one time there was societies condemnation and, in the divorce courts, financial penalties were exacted on the guilty party. Not these days.

And I'm making a distinction between infidelity (overlapping relationship - gotta love that term) and the break-up of a relationship. Break-up's happen. People fall out of love. It's sad but it happens. But that doesn't excuse infidelity. You should finish with your current relationship before embarking on another.

And yes, I know that sometimes one party in a relationship can fall in love with someone else. In that case, finish the current relationship before consummating the new one. I mean, come on, it's the least you can do.

It's down to respect. Respect for your former partner, respect for what you had together and respect for yourself. Doing it the decent way at least allows the slim chance that they can one day be friends again.


But I can't equate what I'm arguing for with the current wave of knife crime in London. That has fuck-all to do with what I understand about respect. Their version of respect is respect based on fear. "You looking at me you fuck?" or, as it used to be in Newcastle "You calling my pint a puff?"

So physical retribution when someone is caught cheating isn't what I want. It might be what I feel but it would be wrong. But there really should be some sort of penalty. A week in the stocks (mushy fruit only), a tattoo on the forehead "I CAN'T KEEP MY KNICKERS/UNDERPANTS UP" or, at the very least, some sort of shunning.

Yeah. I know. I sound like a really old bastard and should just get over it. But think of this. Think of the suicides, attempted suicides, major depression and the rest of the associated damage. True, you get this with a normal break-up but it's multiplied a thousandfold when infidelity is thrown into the mix.

Do you think I've got my point across that I think cheating is bad? I bloody hope so 'cos now I feel like I'm banging on like the old bore down the pub that no-one will talk to...

Cheers
( Legless Mister Stabby - shanks for the memory, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 15:12, closed)

Cheating low-life's obviously in the wrong
"I'm not advocating physical retribution for infidelity..."

Your response to KMWIP makes it sound like you are:

"So good on you Kiss.Me.Where.I.Poo. I, for one, salute you."


"... but there should be *some* sort of payback."

I agree that it would be nice if there were some kind of payback and, on reflection, I would hope that the loss of a long-term relationship and the contempt of all the couple's mutual friends should be a downside to infidelity. In a perfect world it there would be a legal recourse, but I think that this is simply too complicated an problem to be dealt with officially.


"Do you think I've got my point across that I think cheating is bad?"

I don't think that anyone ever disputed that. Nor do I think that anyone but BB thought that KMWIP was actually a rapist. Those two points can, I think, be taken as read from now on.

I think some people are disapproving of KMWIPs actions because they recognise that it is basically a really nasty act camouflaged by an, admittedly quite amusing, "she got chili on her snatch" story (god knows we've seen a few of those). If he had simply gone round and slapped her I think fewer people would have been so amused and approving, and that would have been less painful and, in light of BB's comments, less likely to cause her long-term physical damage.

My point about knife crime was not really about respect (however that word is misused). But I think there is a similar sense (if not degree) of overreaction in the response, and the escalation from an emotional/perceived-social slight to a physical one. "That bloke's looking at me funny so I'll stab him" vs. "That woman's hurt my feelings so I'll cause her intense genital pain." Although the outcome is obviously very different I think they both stem from a failure to deal with the slight without resorting to physical violence. A tenuous comparison I know but arguably there is some common ground and I think that a civilised society is largely built on supressing their initial urge to react physically to any such problem.

Oh, and "relationship-overlap" is a spineless and weaselly bit of language. I'm with you 100% there.
(flimflam_machine, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 16:11, closed)

ermmm, you're wrong
KMWIP actually rubbed the juice from a chilli pepper onto her Rabbit toy, so you're trying to score pedantry points whilst you've actually got your facts wrong.

Also, the whole point is that the reaction to KMWIPs post was toally unbalanced - we've had lots of posts of girls getting guys with pranks and that's fine, but as soon as a guy does it, he's villified, despite him being the one who had been cheated on. In fact, the person who sent him the PM had actually implied that women should be allowed to do as they please without any comeback as they are likely to cheat and holding against them would be wrong.

Also, if you cheat on your wife, she'll divorce you, take the house, the kids and half your income. If your long-term wife cheats on you and you file for divorce, the odds are that under our PC-friendly legal system, she'll still get the house, the kids and your money.

However, if your long-term girlfriend cheats on you, causing just as much pain and heartache as if it was your wife, you won't be able to divorce, or claim damages or god knows what else. The best you can do to get some sort of justice is to rip up her favourite posters, or wank on her teddy bear, or kick her cat...or play a childish prank, which is what KMWIP did.

That's all.

She endangered his life by potentially exposing him to an STD, she betrayed his trust and she threw 8 years of trust back into his face, but he couldn't divorce, or claim compensation, or indeed do anything to get some respite or justice. So he took a bit of dildo-based justice into his own hands and I don't think that anyone who has been in his situation would have been thinking "oh, that's unfair on her - all she did was fuck her boss".
(Chad, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 17:45, closed)

Chili counter-pedantry
"ermmm, you're wrong
KMWIP actually rubbed the juice from a chilli pepper onto her Rabbit toy, so you're trying to score pedantry points whilst you've actually got your facts wrong."

Have I? He rubbed the juice from a capsicum (a chili pepper of the capsicum family) onto her rabbit. But the chemical in the pepper that actually produces the burning sensation is capsaicin (and scotch bonnet peppers contain hefty amounts of this).


"Also, the whole point is that the reaction to KMWIPs post was toally unbalanced - we've had lots of posts of girls getting guys with pranks and that's fine, but as soon as a guy does it, he's villified"

Possibly, it could well be that men are (unfairly) expected to take such retribution with a stiff upper lip. But I and other posters have mentioned that they found the story of a woman breaking her cheating ex-boyfriend's leg equally abhorrent. I don't think the response to KMWIP's post was unbalanced, rather the response to previous posts should have been more like this; physical harm shouldn't be accepted whether it's female on male or vice versa. BB's response to KMWIP was certainly pretty biased but understandably so given what she's been through. What she said does suggest that KMWIP's actions went, inadvertantly, beyond a childish prank.

Much of what you say is true, although the points about inequality in divorce proceedings is more a problem with the legal system than a problem with women. However, none of what you say actually refutes the most salient point which is that *we live in a society which doesn't accept "taking justice into his own hands" much less premeditated physical/sexual pain in retribution for emotional pain* (and I think many people are glad about that). If KMWIP had wanked on her teddy bear or ripped up her posters there probably wouldn't be any controversy. If he had inflicted some other sort of physical pain (like just slapping her) most would think that it was pretty fucking nasty, the fact that his physical retribution was an inventive and superfically amusing chili up the ladybits scheme does not make it any less physical and nasty, or more justified.
(flimflam_machine, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 18:21, closed)

I kind of agree...
You're right, it's not women skewing the legal system in a divorce case. Or, rather, it's not the woman involved in the divroce case, but we now live in a society that is so unwilling to put what is right, decent, fair or morally justified above what is dictated by the PC Thought Police (or Guardian readers, whatever you wish to call them is fine by me), that we have a situation where it is seen as acceptable to villify or victimise KMWIP as he's a man (and therefore must be wrong), whilst there are many posts of girls doing things just as bad/far worse to ex-boyfriends/ex-husbands and we are all expected to laugh along with the "woman scorned".

Legally, you aren't allowed to take retribution on anyone. Legally, it doesn't matter if you are a "woman scorned", if you harm another human being, you are breaking the law. But the PC brigade ignore this because criticising her actions might (in their warped minds) be seen as sexist. The same with the potential minefields of race, sexuality and religion.

In my eyes, either we allow all such posts to be laughed at, or none. There should be zero distinction (after all, there was a food revenge story last week in which a girl put a used tampon in a boyfriends cup of tea and no-one pilloried her, did they?), but in bringing up this point the self-appointed bastions of decency labelled me as bigoted for merely asking if it was right that KMWIP was treated in the way he has been when there weren't page after page of rants about posts where female posters had taken revenge on their boyfriend/husband.

Surely, that makes them bigoted for only allowing an act of revenge to be justified if performed by a woman? I merely argued that either all such actions should be seen as justified, or none should be.

Without wishing to spoil the debate, we on b3ta have a generally-recognised sick sense of humour, so I think that anyone moralising on here about a chilli up the flange needs to think if that is fair considering the amount of jokes about paedophiles, rape, missing children and suchlike that are met with gales of laughter on a regular basis.

Either we treat all posts like KMWIPs as a bit of fun (and don't skew the reaction based on the poster's gender, race, sexuality or religion), or we take everything seriously and kill off the whole point of this site - that it is a PC-free zone where people can say just exactly what they think. If we start letting the Emos and hairy-armpit brigade dictate what people can say and think on here, then we might as well all give up and go home - because this site will have lost its whole raison d'etre.
(Chad, Wed 1 Oct 2008, 12:28, closed)

Broadly
I understand what you mean, but I think you're overestimating the bias around here, and the degree to which reactions like this are down to Guardian-reading, hairy-armpitted, emo, self-appointed bastions of decency, rather than just normal people reacting to something that they think is unpleasant.

Most revenge stories around here are acts against somone's property or reputation. These are generally seen as funny and deserved and having no real long-term consequences. The food contamination stories generally get at least some responses along the lines of "you sad inadequate little twat" (at least the ones written by people in crappy jobs taking petty, smug revenge on people that they don't like). Stories of intentional physical pain or harm are pretty rare and quite a few people have said that they find them abhorrent, whatever the genders of the people involved, and have said so here; presumably because they happened to real people (rather than just being sick jokes). They know they can't stop other people laughing at them (nor do they probably want to) but that doesn't stop them offering a perfectly valid opinion.

I think that people have a weird ability to laugh at something and recognise it as nasty at the same time, and KMWIP's story was quite funny. People's responses according to this fine balance vary, and they're not obliged to treat every instance the same just because *you* feel that they are the same. Nor are they obliged to scan the boards for every possible act that steps over the line and come down on it like this. The board will survive, sick jokes and all, and just as people don't need to read the board, you certainly don't need to read the comments and KMWIP certainly doesn't need to post the most extreme PM that he received. If he was looking for this kind of response (which is possible) he was going the right way about it.
(flimflam_machine, Wed 1 Oct 2008, 15:20, closed)

bang on the money there...
we're supposed to tip-toe round the nutjob as she's got issues, whilst she's allowed to treat every man on the planet as she would the guy who attacked her. I'm sorry she's fucked up, but I won't let anone take their issues out on me or anyone else. After all, I had an ex who stalked me and who attacked me with a kitchen knife (when I offered to wash up after dinner, of all things), so I should be justified in treating all women as psychotic potential knife-wielders, but I don't, so if she or anyone else is offlaying their baggage onto the general populace, I take great offence and feel that they should either get their shit together, or get help with their issues.

Again, we are adults, not little children, so should be held accountable for our actions, be they acts of violence, betrayal, projection or simple passive-aggressive behaviour.

Sorry to go on a bit, but the whole KMWIP backlash has gotten on my tits a bit!
(Chad, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 16:55, closed)

Her behaviour is a bit odd, hence the bunny boiler tag
Personally, I think she needs help but she was bang out of order sending a message like that privately. If she is going to send something like that, why not have the backbone to say it in public? This is after all a public forum, and any email you send can be posted quite easily. I've done it myself once or twice when I was messaged by a rather odd South African girl.
( jim_bob can herd cats., Tue 30 Sep 2008, 11:23, closed)

Can I just say
It's called 'just desserts'?

Unless of course the Sahara, Kalahari etc are where cheating partners are sent - kind of like a more severe version of sending someone to Coventry...?

Pedantry - go on, give it a try! It's not like I've 'chili-dildoed' anyone, now is it?
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 12:17, closed)

I'll
see your pedantry and raise you with proof..

www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/just-deserts.html


And www.wisegeek.com/what-does-just-deserts-mean.htm


Cheers
( Legless Mister Stabby - shanks for the memory, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 12:24, closed)

No to be pedantic...
But you've replied to the wrong post.
( jim_bob can herd cats., Tue 30 Sep 2008, 12:25, closed)

So..
Pedantic, wrong and incompetent....

Not your day Monty..

(He's a lovely bloke though....Special. That's the word I was looking for.....)

Cheers
( Legless Mister Stabby - shanks for the memory, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 12:28, closed)

Probably just having a senior moment or something
Which apparently frequently happens to those over 40...
( jim_bob can herd cats., Tue 30 Sep 2008, 13:23, closed)

What!
Who said that?

mumble

*is 48*

Falls asleep
( Legless Mister Stabby - shanks for the memory, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 13:40, closed)

hoisted by my own petard
I'm doing well today, right kids?

Actually I've turned 35 today and am still drunk from the Biblical-scale boozeup forced on me, like the chili-dildo of myth and legend, last night.

*realises that this is not an excuse for ignorance or technical spasticity*
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 13:53, closed)

.
rapist.
( browser still relating boring anecdotes into a void on, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 15:19, closed)

Actually
that's "hoist by your own Picard".

It came into common usage after Star Trek TNG, series 2, episode 5 according to this link:

www.daftdoggy.com/b3ta/star-trek.jpg

Cheers
( Legless Mister Stabby - shanks for the memory, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 15:24, closed)

Grrrrr
I didn't even consider it would be that link!!

Well played
(Masterb3ta, Tue 30 Sep 2008, 21:49, closed)