On the subject of water
I refuse to pay my water bill.

It's not that I can't afford it, because I can, but I flat out refuse to pay for something which comes from the ground and the sky, for free.

And yes, I know what you're going to say: "Then why don't you go and get it from a stream, or collect rainwater?"

Because all the streams around here have buildings on top of them, and the rainwater is full of noxious chemicals. That's why.




I also refuse to pay my TV license, because there's never anything good on. I know my rights, and if they come to my door then I tell them to go away.
(Half of Stephen Fry's right buttock pissed on your dog on, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 10:48, 64 replies)

then
You should go and live in a cave.
( rofl harris, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 10:49, closed)

Ummm
This makes no sense at all.
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 10:51, closed)

I'm guessing
... he means that it wasn't his decision to build on top of everything and change the landscape such that he has to now pay for something which was previously accessible and free for all.

Or maybe I'm reading too much into it.
( rofl harris, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 10:57, closed)

As far as I can see...
... this boils down to "perfectly potable water is available for free, even though it isn't."
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 11:08, closed)

I think it boils down to
"I like having a free ride at everyone else's expense, and I've developed a piss weak excuse for my taking a free ride at everyone else's expense" without of course realising that his argument is entirely indefensible.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 11:10, closed)

That's ok, I refuse to pay my gas bill
why should I pay for something that my arse produces free of charge?
( Colonel Dracula Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 10:55, closed)

You shouldn't.
But start paying for the equipment to capture it all- and the vast quantity of beans required to keep yourself at the same amount of gas produced (and medical attention required after a few weeks of that)- and you'll suddenly find that gas is the cheap option!
( uberdeity Wondered why Owen Lars knew of the term "hell" on, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 11:10, closed)

Fine, I wont cancel my direct debit then.
you just had to piss on my bonfire didn't you? Tsk
( Colonel Dracula Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 11:45, closed)

...
Better than you farting on your bonfire...
(annexed, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 13:35, closed)

Ha!

( Colonel Dracula Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 14:21, closed)

And the cost for *removing* the noxious chemicals
and then delivering the results to your door is covered by whom?
( IHaveABadFeelingAboutThis most likely working from home on, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 10:55, closed)

"the rainwater is full of noxious chemicals"
which is why the water companies expend a large amount of money and energy treating and filtering this water so that it's not full of noxious chemicals when it comes out of your taps.

EDIT: Sorry, I see two of you have beaten me to the same counter-argument.
(LongJohnBaldry, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 10:56, closed)

The reason water costs
is the infrastructure involved in getting it to you. Watertight pipes and facilities to get the "noxious chemicals" out of the water don't come free.

Why not collect rainwater then either drink it (it's not that bad, at least not up where I am) or collect it & boil it then drink it.

And you have to pay the TV license. If you tell them to go away, they come back with the police. Who have a bit of paper negating your right to tell them to bugger off. You'd be far better off getting rid of your TV since there's nothing good on then inviting them round to let them know you don't have a TV. That way you don't need to buy a TV license or replaced a kicked in front door.

Edit: Bugger. Beaten by 3 others.
( uberdeity Wondered why Owen Lars knew of the term "hell" on, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 10:57, closed)

tightarses
the reason you pay is to have clean water delivered to your door you twat
(lazyozboy, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 11:01, closed)

Mine is delivered to my tap
Were it delivered to my door, my carpets would be all wet.
(ThomsonsPier consumes, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:02, closed)

who dirties the water
with noxious chemicals and such?

Shouldn't they pay to have it cleaned or am I right in assuming that industry pays the government to charge the taxpayer to clean the water they are dirtying?
(bazmorningstar efil4nat3b, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 11:19, closed)

The EA
is there to stop industry dirtying the water and to fine them and make them pay for the clean up if they do.

But there is a world of difference between water polluted by industry and water pulled out of the ground which, while not "polluted" is not fit for human consumption by virtue of containing bacteria and various suspended solids (such as fecal material) which would be present even if industry didn't exist.

To supply clean drinking water to the number of people which require it cleaning is essential and costs money.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 11:25, closed)

thanks al!
but I'm a bit scoobied here - what's the point of electing a government and paying taxes if they then get to charge us for everything anyway?
(bazmorningstar efil4nat3b, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 11:26, closed)

N'owt wrong with privatisation of infrastructure...
Water's a commodity, dont you know. If you can't afford to pay for it, then you shouldn't have any.
( flake has nothing against your right leg, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 11:31, closed)

Aren't our taxes bailing out private industry at the moment?
or did i miss something in the financial papers?
(bazmorningstar efil4nat3b, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 11:43, closed)

Our taxes
are bailing out the banks at the moment, banks aren't known for their extensive record of polluting groundwater.

And to baz's point, the governement doesnt supply the water, a private industry does, hence you need to pay them.

If they nationalised the water boards again, then you would end up paying increased tax instead of your water bill, and you would probably pay more in increased tax since the government run department would have far less incentive to make efficiency savings than a private company who's ability to charge is regulated quite strictly.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:00, closed)

I appreciate your point, al - thank you
My point is that private industry and the govt. are in cahoots to extract as much wonga from John Citizen as possible.

I dont want to head into conspiracy theory territory here or even socialism but it is quite simply not fair. Not in an emo way but in a we elected the fuckers and they are doing us bottomly without even the courtesy of a half-decent reach-around.
(bazmorningstar efil4nat3b, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:05, closed)

You can certainly
argue that point, but on the other hand, we could live in Zimbabwe where you elect the party who don't set you on fire and beat you with sticks and then they keep all the money, waste the most fertile land in the whole of the continent and refuse to give it up.

Just saying.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:08, closed)

yeah but you could also live in France
or Spain or Italy or any one of the countries your countrymen and mine holiday in or retire to for the good life.

French telly is shit though.
And it's in French.

Point being, the 'it could be worse' theory doesnt hold water for me cos, well, 'it could be better'.
(bazmorningstar efil4nat3b, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:12, closed)

It could be better
and it damn well should be, given that we're a [former] almost-world-dominating power, first world, high-tech (in theory) country.
( uberdeity Wondered why Owen Lars knew of the term "hell" on, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:18, closed)

"Doesn't hold water!"
Was that a deliberate pun?
(LongJohnBaldry, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:18, closed)

Im going to say, "yes"
but that mightn't be the truth.
(bazmorningstar efil4nat3b, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:19, closed)

There are lots of good things
about other european countries, but there are lots of problems too. France has very high unemployment, especially amongst the young. Germany in suffering an influx of oompah-bands and large men in lederhosen and they don't know what to do about it.

So yes, in Britain we have a government which isn't providing the greatest service in many areas, but we still have universal health care which that's free at point of service. So you can complain about lots of things quite rightly, but any situation "could be better".

I realise not all these arguments are totally applicable to Ireland, but the two governments are fairly similar in their outlooks.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:19, closed)

@al - agreed
That was the most polite argument ever.

We should be running the world.
(bazmorningstar efil4nat3b, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:23, closed)

Oh we could
but I'd be afraid that you'd bugger off and drink Guinness whenever an important decision had to be made!
(Bazongaloid, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:33, closed)

and you with your newcy brown...
I have made most of my best decisions down the pub.
(bazmorningstar efil4nat3b, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:37, closed)

But
I would tell everyone I was off to walk the dog. Hence the delightful nickname of newcy brown.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:40, closed)

im using that excuse
I cant read this anymore though.
(bazmorningstar efil4nat3b, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:50, closed)

Similar to this
My boss (who is an otherwise decent family sort of fella) makes a point of stealing things whenever he goes into a supermarket, because mass hoarding of food to be sold on at a profit to people with no other choice is bad and stuff. Right on, stick it to the man etc.
( Wet-chinned bag shanker Cannot parse Wogan, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 11:26, closed)

I, too, refuse to pay for a TV license
But that's because I don't have a television. Not out of any sort of smug middle-class anti-TV snobbery, but just because I never got round to buying one. On the odd occasion I contemplate getting one I usually end up distracted by something else anyway.

I just ignore the threatening letters accusing me of committing all sorts of foul crimes. If the cunts want to pay me a visit, like they keep threatening to, they're welcome to.
( flake has nothing against your right leg, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 11:30, closed)

Your water bill also covers waste costs.
So as long as you dont take shits in your house, or showers or baths or wash any dishes or any clothes then you might be onto something :)
(Miggyman, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 11:33, closed)

Odd.
I have to pay two water bills.

'In' water, and 'out' water.

Incidently, so long as they know the property is being lived in, they cannot cut off the supply regardless of you not paying the bill.

Not saying I agree, but that's the law.
(dchurch bah, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 13:50, closed)

Where did I say I actually have a TV?
I don't, but I tell them to bugger off anyway. And if they decide to kick my front door in, they won't find anything and then will then have to pay to replace the front door.

All the programs I want to watch, I can watch on the internet anyway.
(Half of Stephen Fry's right buttock pissed on your dog on, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 11:37, closed)

Well, if you say "I refuse to pay my licence, because there's nothing good on,"
that suggested to most of us that: 1. you probably owned a telly in order to know there was nothing on.

2. You must have owned a telly if there was any issue of "refusal" about it - if you didn't own a telly, there was no obligation to pay for a licence in the first place, and so nothing to be refused.

Purely a semantic issue, I'm afraid. Though I'm with you on t'interweb - anything I actually want to watch never seems to be on when I'm around, so the iPlayer is a godsend when my interweb connection isn't being shite.
(LongJohnBaldry, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 11:40, closed)

TV licences are utterly wrong
A television is an expensive advertisement delivery device. They should be handing them out for free.
(bazmorningstar efil4nat3b, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 11:41, closed)

Although - just purely to be a pedant here
I believe you only strictly pay your TV licence to watch the two channels that aren't allowed to broadcast commercial adverts - BBC1 & 2.

At least, I think that's that case; please correct me if I'm wrong.

As for the other 3 terrestrial channels, I couldn't agree more. Adverts within 30 seconds of the opening credits of a program? I could scream at channel 4 sometimes.
(LongJohnBaldry, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 11:49, closed)

Im in Ireland
All channels have ads here. And besides, I have a SKY box which I pay for monthly to be advertised it every 7-8 minutes for regular programming (repeats and reality TV with occasional original programming). To watch movies or sports, I pay extra to be advertised at non-stop.
(bazmorningstar efil4nat3b, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 11:54, closed)

In the UK
you are obliged to have a TV license to watch any of the terrestrial channels broadcast, not just the BBC ones.

Also, if you are watching TV programmes on the internet via the bbc iplayer, and possibly the channel four and ITV equivalents, I think you are also obliged to have a license. I'm sure the law is a bit vague there.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 11:57, closed)

For fear of sounding like an idiot
but surely the license fee also helps pay for the running of ALL BBC facilities including Radio and the website?

And If we didn't have a license fee would we have had some of the best TV shows ever over the years (Blackadder, Fawlty Towers etc).

If you get a chance, Stephen Fry has a podcast about the license fee which may is very interesting.
(Holy Cremola Foam Batman will be back on, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:26, closed)

Blackadder and Fawlty Towers
are on near constant repeat on the satellite channels whilst being viciously punctuated with ads every few minutes. I'd assume BBC are getting a few quid out of that.
(bazmorningstar efil4nat3b, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:40, closed)

No doubt they are
Gotta love Dave.

But the point I was trying to make is without the license fee would they have been made in the first place?

It's been pointed out that many actors started their careers with the BBC (including Stephen Fry, Hugh Laurie, Rowen Atkinson, John Cleese) might not have got the chances they did if it hadn't existed.
(Holy Cremola Foam Batman will be back on, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:45, closed)

Them boys were all Cambridge Review alumnii.
I suspect they'd have done alright.
(bazmorningstar efil4nat3b, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:49, closed)

They
might not have been made in the first place, but some of those are over 20 years old.

I realise that you pay a licence to pay for these things to be made, but surely they didn't expect each and every one of us to cover the whole cost of making them each did they?

I mean, surely just one licence fee pays for things like 'Dog Borstal'?
(dchurch bah, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 13:52, closed)

all the UKTV network (including davem uktv food, watch, alalbi ect)
are part owned by bbc and virgin media so there makning shit loads out of it already down with the licence
( hooker1uk Filth monger of the lowest degree!, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 20:47, closed)

@althegeordie
you only need a licence if you're watching programs on the internet that are being broadcast live. so iplayer and the others and fine!
(rosie-pie, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:45, closed)

Oh right
thanks for clearing that up.

Do you need one to listen to the radio online?
(Bazongaloid, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:46, closed)

nope
i think you can get it on iplayer too?
(rosie-pie, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:53, closed)

iPlayer's paid for
by the BBC, hence the license fee. As is the content streamed over it.

It's all GeoIP locked to make sure you can only see it in the UK (license-fee-payer area).

So any iPlayer stuff's covered by the requirement for the License to, no?
( uberdeity Wondered why Owen Lars knew of the term "hell" on, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 13:10, closed)

only
if you're watching it live, as it's being broadcast. "If you use the BBC iPlayer to watch BBC programmes after they have been broadcast - either to download, or via streaming 'on demand' you will not need a TV Licence."
(rosie-pie, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 13:20, closed)

not all is locked
certain news articles containing video can be seen abroad, and coccasionally some sports as well
(bamboozled Can hear you getting fatter, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 14:59, closed)

Law's not vague. No license needed.
T'Interwebs don't count as "reception equipment". You can watch all the TV you fancy courtesy of the Intertubes and don't have to pay a penny to Gordon McCunt and his cronies. However, if you have a TV card in your computer (or USB TV receiver stick thing) then you do need a license, as that piece of hardware is considered to be reception equipment.

Can the gizmo pick up TV via RF? Yes? It needs licensing. No? It doesn't need licensing.
( flake has nothing against your right leg, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 19:14, closed)

You can pump out groundwater
and drink that, if you like, but I would wager that it's got some nasties in it as well.

If you drink from a stream you'll be getting it with its full contingent of animal shit- and most likely giardia, as that's been spread all over the globe by people camping with their dogs. In which case you'll be shitting and puking simultaneously while your fever spikes.

Offhand I'd say that paying for treated water is really your best option.

I work for a company that's in the water treatment business. That doesn't mean that I'm acting in my own interests here- it merely means that I'm more aware than most of exactly what's in that water in the stream or the ground.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:27, closed)

In Ireland, we used to have utility charges which were abolished
then replaced with income tax to cover all utilities. As yet, there are no water charges in this country but they are under review. If they are introduced, we will be paying twice.

To me, that's wrong.
(bazmorningstar efil4nat3b, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:33, closed)

Don't mind if I've been beated by a hundred others...
You're not paying for the water. You're paying for them to clean it, to build the pipes that get it to you, to maintain these pipes and for them to make sure you never go without.

You're paying for a service, not the water.
( vix0r was not Matthew on, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 12:55, closed)

which is fully understood by most, I believe,
but the point is it should be provided by the government out of income tax revenue.
(bazmorningstar efil4nat3b, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 13:02, closed)

The utilities were privatised
... by the government and they spent the money on lowering income tax.

So we used to own the water companies, and any profits they made were passed back to us through the dividend to government, which lowered taxes (like the post office has on occasion done). But now, we don't own it, so we have to buy (cleaned) water from companies, who pass the profits back to their shareholders, as a reward for them stumping up the working capital for the business.

This isn't true for all the UK - Scotland's water is still public, and I think Hyder in Wales and Kelda were either renationalised or are not for profit companies.
(cheesehead, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 15:16, closed)

The utilities were privatised by the government and they spent the money on lowering income tax
That's a very optimistic rose-tinted view of things. When Thatcher sold off all the utilities in the 80's, tax didn't go down at all.
( sandettie light vessel automatic New Twitter - @bollocksreally, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 17:02, closed)

TV Licence & Water
The TV Licence is a licence to install and use devices that can receive broadcasted tv-signals as they are being shown on TV. This includes TVs, video recorders, your SKY/Freeview/other subscription-based tv package, DVD recorders, computers and mobile phones.


You could try sinking a well on your land, or catch rainwater and store it. This water can be filtered and sterilised as it was what people have been doing for centuries.
Even if you have no water supplied to your premises, you still have to pay for your waste to be ferried away.

If you purify and process your own waste somehow and maybe sell the processed sterilised waste onto a farmer to throw on his land, any rainwater that drains off your land enters drains owned by the local water authority, so they'll still bill you for that.

You cannot avoid the man.
( sandettie light vessel automatic New Twitter - @bollocksreally, Mon 27 Oct 2008, 17:12, closed)

If you don't pay the water bill
It pushes up the price for everyone else...the non-payers as a whole only cost each actual water bill payer about £10 per year, but it's not very fair. I suppose it's a bit like an 'honesty box' system, because they won't cut the supply.

I'm very glad we have the BBC, so I don't resent the licence too much.
(Ovaltina, Tue 28 Oct 2008, 1:37, closed)