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# There are far too many Ham Touchers
and what the hell is Tofu made of anyway!
(I helped save b3ta! maiden is filmed before a live studio audience, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 13:59, archived)
# cock cheese and phlegm
(I helped save b3ta! Paul_P http://www.Paul-hub.com, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:00, archived)
# bean curd, made by coagulating soy milk
all of those words just spell delicious :D
(I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:01, archived)
# Yum yum get in my tum!
that sounds so much better than a bacon sandwich with crispy lettuce and tomato.
(I helped save b3ta! maiden is filmed before a live studio audience, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:05, archived)
# only because of the conditioning your brain has been through to accept "bacon"
read this if you have time:
www.animalsandsociety.org/assets/462_mitchellsa.pdf
fascinating stuff about how the brain accepts things like animal farming in the same way people did the holocaust.
Genuinely great read for anyone interested in how the brain works.
(I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:08, archived)
# 21 pages probably don;t have time since I should be setting off to work in 10minutes or so
I suppose if you were brought on tofu and such then you'd be used to it.
(I helped save b3ta! maiden is filmed before a live studio audience, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:11, archived)
# I don't think the jews were as tasty as bacon
(I helped save b3ta! Paul_P http://www.Paul-hub.com, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:13, archived)
# Jews are almost 100% bacon free
so they are the healthier choice.
(I helped save b3ta! maiden is filmed before a live studio audience, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:19, archived)
# The free range ones
are far too expensive.
(I helped save b3ta! Smallbrainfield, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:22, archived)
# I'm against the battery farm variety
they suffer so much.
(I helped save b3ta! maiden is filmed before a live studio audience, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:24, archived)
# That's outrageous I can't believe you said that!
:P
(I helped save b3ta! arrangedletters, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:35, archived)
# *skim-reads*
Well, that looks like nonsense. It utterly ignored the differences between persons and non-persons - comparing animal husbandry to the holocaust is only going to be plausible if you think that farm-animals are persons, or Jews non-persons. Both of these would be false.

The language is loaded, therefore question-begging.

Also, this paper ignores all the important philosophical work that's been done on animal welfare in the last 40 years - it doesn't even cite Singer or Rachels, who would be plausible allies, let alone give a hearing to those who think that nonhumans are of little to no moral importance.

How does stuff like this pass peer-review, grumble grumble.

Right: I'm off to spend an afternoon doing real philosophy. Dispassionately. With arguments.
(I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:24, archived)
# that's some impressive skin reading, you seem to have missed all the points and taken it to be about something that it isn't
the holocaust comment I made is a very tiny comparison made almost as an aside, its not what the blokes paper is about.
(I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:28, archived)
# I imagine the rationale is the same for most things people consider unpleasant.
So long as it's not going on under your nose and there's offical sanction, it's okay, even when it's not. That said, pigs aren't animals and they're very tasty, whereas jewish people aren't tasty and complain more
(I helped save b3ta! Smallbrainfield, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:37, archived)
# I'm reading it in a bit more detail at the moment.
There's a lot of highly morally loaded language in there, and precious little argument to support it. And there remains a big, big, big problem along the lines that comparing treatments of different kinds of animal in this way is only ever going to be more than empty formalism if there is some serious sense in which the animals are morally comparable. That doesn't seem to be established here.

I simply don't buy the argument - not least because the important bits are left out.
(I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:37, archived)
# I skimmed your comments
and they sound like, "I like meat, they're animals, shut up".
(I helped save b3ta! mofaha ┐( ˘_˘)┌ ʅ(́◡◝)ʃ, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:47, archived)
# Pigs have a lot to answer for
I mean, pork chops are vile.
(I helped save b3ta! arrangedletters, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:50, archived)
# I skimmed your post
It sounded like 'comments..sound..meat'. Coincidentally the new album by Nine Inch Nails.
(I helped save b3ta! Smallbrainfield, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:51, archived)
# I skimmed my stone across your pond
and now we're caught in a sexual allegory :(
(I helped save b3ta! arrangedletters, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:53, archived)
# is that business or pleassure?
(I helped save b3ta! arrangedletters, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:43, archived)
# As a counterpoint:
www.lloydianaspects.co.uk/opinion/veggie.html
(I helped save b3ta! gronkpan https://twitter.com/VomitingLarry, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 15:02, archived)
# Hahahaha
(I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 15:50, archived)
# This person sounds terribly naïve
"Whenever and wherever possible, it is important that nonhuman farming be portrayed as abusive in its essential character, even in its supposedly more benign forms such as “free range,” “traditional,” or “grass fed.” It needs to be apprehended by the public as a system in which nonhumans are held captive, mutilated, controlled, impregnated, castrated, and killed."

...what did they think happened on farms?
(I helped save b3ta! emvee cruor deo cruoris, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 15:06, archived)
# Those few lines
are enought to tell me there is no point me reading the article.

I do hope everyone's high horses are being treated ethically though!
(I helped save b3ta! Wasp Box like a nervous random stranger at a glory hole, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 15:39, archived)
# My inlaws have farms
I a few days in December as a hand on a farm for pigs and cattle - sorry, I mean an institution for the abuse of nonhumans.

Mmmm, tasty, tasty nonhumans.
(I helped save b3ta! emvee cruor deo cruoris, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 15:48, archived)
# but that's the point, the masses don't think that happens
(I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 16:17, archived)
# 0_o
You see ^This^ is whay I hate the fact the internet is text based... I simply can't tell if people are being sarcastic or genuine. I really hope you don't mean that :(
(I helped save b3ta! The magic of chutney Shakes it like an Instagram filter!, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:09, archived)
# Of course I'm being sarcastic - I love BLTs
as for Tofu I've never ventured to try it but my brain immediately tells me as I've tasted soya milk before then Tofu isn't going to be a pleasant experience.
(I helped save b3ta! maiden is filmed before a live studio audience, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:14, archived)
# it's almost tasteless
with the texture of sheep brains
(I helped save b3ta! Paul_P http://www.Paul-hub.com, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:15, archived)
# Now I'm really hungry
(I helped save b3ta! maiden is filmed before a live studio audience, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:17, archived)
# Tofu
is ok as a 'carrier' of flavour. I had a nice sweet and sour tofu once, but it was the sauce, not the tofu that made it.
(I helped save b3ta! TheSundaeLunch I'm a fucking shrub, alright?, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:17, archived)
# Yeah I figured that was the case. Still not tempted though.
(I helped save b3ta! maiden is filmed before a live studio audience, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:20, archived)
# My mate got handed some tofu
at the end of a long day touring a factory in China. He'd never had it before and thought it would be like cheese. The taste was so weird he immediately brought up his lunch in front of half a dozen horrified chinese businessmen and his chortling workmates.
(I helped save b3ta! Smallbrainfield, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:03, archived)
# In some countries that's a sign of a delicious meal!
or is that diarrhea?
(I helped save b3ta! maiden is filmed before a live studio audience, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:06, archived)
# :D
it's like cream cheese cross bred with rubber with all the flavour removed
(I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:06, archived)
# That's a fair description.
The Chinese had got it into their heads that every meal should be a banquet for their wonderful English customers who were buying all their stuff. After 2 days of glistening meat and rich, oily sauces something had to give.
(I helped save b3ta! Smallbrainfield, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:14, archived)
# When I was a kid,
I used to confuse the word "tofu" with the word "futon".

I can remember which is which now. One is tasteless and chewy; the other's a kind of sofa-bed.
(I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Mon 18 Apr 2011, 14:07, archived)