I bet Noah tricked them. He probably told them the ark was made of bamboo
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:05,
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They probably planned on eating the boat, making the other animals extinct too.
And what is up with those macaws eh?
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:09,
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And what is up with those macaws eh?
the animals are going onto the boat there, but the rainbow doesn't appear until they disembark.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:07,
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so there should be seven sheep there, not just two.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:09,
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not paying attention.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:12,
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At least not when I'm around
Those animals are fucked.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:10,
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Unless it's already beached, and animals walk backwards in the bible, I dunno.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:13,
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there's a massive flood about to happen.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:15,
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they believed in spontaneous generation, see. Deucalion never had to take any animals on board, he just threw some pebbles on the ground afterwards and everything grew straight out of the swamp again, at least according to Ovid.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:21,
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I guess we have to thank them for inspiring those plastic animals you grow by putting them in water.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:24,
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it's well funny. I reckon the Hebrews were on the sensible side of the fence on this one.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:32,
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You'd be in with more of a chance of storing everything on a single ship. Who's the sensible one now, huh?
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:39,
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Maybe it's a metaphor - two by two - double helix.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:41,
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Though if you worked with a selection of gametes you might just be on to something...
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:47,
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in fact the Greeks were making good headway in discrediting religion and mysticism, when Christianity came along and set us back 2000 years
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:54,
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they gave us Aristotle, who held science back for 2000 years.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:06,
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Epicurus, Euclidean Geometry, Archimedes?
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:14,
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as for Epicurus, yeah I'll give him points for his philosophy of science, but it hardly "discredits religion and mysticism".
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:20,
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as opposed to the culture the catholic church presided over, under which people were burned at the stake for not believing that bread actually turned into christ in your stomach during the eucharist
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:30,
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but I will point out that the "shoulders of giants" that Newton spoke of may well have been the mediaeval Muslim scientists who made enormous advances in the field of optics, amongst others, apparently because of a Qur'anic imperative to "observe nature and learn". I'd also suggest you read up on "the Conflict Thesis".
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:35,
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Aristotle/Plato, anyway if we're going to bring newton into it, i shall refer back to Euclidean Geometry
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:40,
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not saying anything about Euclidean Geometry either, because it's irrelevant. But let's come back to Epicurus again and see how it relates to what we started with here in the first place. If you are going to go by his philosophy and get your theories by observation of the natural world, well, there was no evidence for the spontaneous generation theory of the Greeks, and really quite a lot for the common Hebrew knowledge that animals only ever come from other animals of the same species. This is why I give the Hebrews the points in this particular game.
There were people in the Enlightenment who liked to ascribe Greek primacy to everything, but it was often just Eurocentric prejudice. A lot of good maths and science originated in Babylon, because they needed it to do their astrology. They were also heavily influenced by the Egyptians and the Phoenicians.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:54,
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There were people in the Enlightenment who liked to ascribe Greek primacy to everything, but it was often just Eurocentric prejudice. A lot of good maths and science originated in Babylon, because they needed it to do their astrology. They were also heavily influenced by the Egyptians and the Phoenicians.
obviously the Greeks got things wrong, but they got other things right and they did so by keeping an open mind, one which was shut by the ignorance of religion.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 18:20,
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It's good to have an open mind, maybe if you had one you'd see that this doctrine of yours (or did you uncritically receive it from that Dawkins chap?) that religion is the same thing as ignorance was, well, ignorant.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 18:33,
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i actually went to sunday school untill the age of 10, basically because it was a free babysitter, my parents have no religious standing, but they never told me what to think. since the age of 10 i gradually discredited the bible and decided that instead of believing that god created the earth in seven days (etc) the earth was created over billions of years from leftover dust from a supernova. instead of beliving that humans come from some ribs and some dust we evolved from apes of millions of years. instead of believing that after death your spirit flies off (somewhere) and your reunited with dead relatives, your constituent atoms are re-distributed in the ground or in the air and continue a cycle of life that's been going for billions of years.
you want to talk about ignorance.
yes i do think preaching a book written by men 2000 years ago as scientific fact is ignorant, when all it is at best is a philosophical document on the human nature and society.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 19:22,
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you want to talk about ignorance.
yes i do think preaching a book written by men 2000 years ago as scientific fact is ignorant, when all it is at best is a philosophical document on the human nature and society.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 19:42,
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Then let's bring Einstein's General Theory of Relativity into it and throw Euclidean Geometry out the window.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 18:00,
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i think a theory that explains the three dimensional world, without knowledge of gravitation, that still stands today is pretty good.
and the hebrews, christians or muslims contribution to this field in the intervening 2000 years is what?
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 18:18,
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and the hebrews, christians or muslims contribution to this field in the intervening 2000 years is what?
I've already told you the Muslim contribution, they did loads of good science. As did a lot of Christians, Christianity founded a great deal of research. We also have to thank such people as William of Ockham, the 13th century Franciscan Friar who gave us that Ockham's Razor thing you atheists like to bang on about. The Muslims did so well partly because while they had read the works of Aristotle, they didn't take it as gospel truth. Then Galileo came along and proved it wrong on a few more points. I can hardly emphasize this point enough so I'll even capitalise it: ARISTOTLE'S PHYSICS COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING.
Plato did a little better, to be honest. He came up with the idea, foreign to previous generations of Greeks, of a God created the universe. He also inspired the various Gnostic sects. Unfortunately some people took his story of Atlantis a little seriously, although mostly not until the modern day I must add.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 18:28,
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Plato did a little better, to be honest. He came up with the idea, foreign to previous generations of Greeks, of a God created the universe. He also inspired the various Gnostic sects. Unfortunately some people took his story of Atlantis a little seriously, although mostly not until the modern day I must add.
this house was built in the 1950s. I don't think they used a computer.
Euclidean Geometry - yes, great. Consequences for religion and mysticism: NIL.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 18:37,
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Euclidean Geometry - yes, great. Consequences for religion and mysticism: NIL.
so when a christian, a hebrew or a muslim makes a scientific discovery it's because of their religion and therefore of great importance, but when someone like euclid comes up with something of real significance it's irrelevant.
smacks of apologist sentiment to me.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 18:47,
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smacks of apologist sentiment to me.
that "the Greeks were making good headway in discrediting religion and mysticism". Quite a lot of the Greek philosophers were very mystical, in fact. Of course Galileo et al didn't discredit Aristotelian physics because he was a Christian, but you speak as if religious people never said anything clever at all, as if religion were opposed in principle to science, or even to thinking, and that the bounties of modernity are all ultimately creditable to the Greeks.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 18:58,
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especially with an administration like the catholic church as the dominant authority
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 19:05,
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Religious people have said clever things throughout the ages and not because they were any less religious than their contemporaries. Being clever and being religious are entirely orthogonal properties. And you haven't read up on the Conflict Thesis yet, have you?
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 19:09,
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is in no way a hindrance?
I did the conflict thesis at university yes, shall I list a load of literature and you can tell me if you've read up on it?
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 19:28,
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I did the conflict thesis at university yes, shall I list a load of literature and you can tell me if you've read up on it?
you pulled an ace out of your sleeve just there though, gaz me the bibliography and I'll look into it.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 19:37,
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that doesn't appear to be about the Conflict Thesis at all.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 19:46,
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Early retirement not an option back then?
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:15,
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Verily I am going to fuck this pig hard and fast, tis either that or I further tatter Japeth's ragged ringpiece.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:23,
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and everyone's watching them back down the ramp.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:26,
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There should be a good million or so species to have two of everything
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:16,
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the boring animals come later
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:19,
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with the millions of different species of beetles in the world, Noah must have spent a lot of his time on his knees, scrabbling around underneath logs and rocks...
...I also would question the wisdom of saving, say, black widow spiders or scorpions...
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:21,
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...I also would question the wisdom of saving, say, black widow spiders or scorpions...
apparently he had to take on board Sirens as well, and various sorts of demons. Which sounds like fun.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:26,
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Oh no, they were killed by the flood and instantly fossilised by the sedimentation on its retreat. Sorry.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:43,
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in theory they should have been taken on board as well though if they were still around. Which they weren't, obviously.
There's an interesting mention of the reason why apes resemble humans so much, apparently Adam and Eve were far more spectacular creatures to begin with, and were some 200m tall as well—it's only because of the Fall that they came to resemble the beasts.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:47,
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There's an interesting mention of the reason why apes resemble humans so much, apparently Adam and Eve were far more spectacular creatures to begin with, and were some 200m tall as well—it's only because of the Fall that they came to resemble the beasts.
You know, the "giants" who were the product of angels fucking human women, which were supposedly wiped out in the flood...then turn up again a few books later anyway...
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:49,
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I don't remember off the top of my head.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:51,
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these and all the other bad guys were utterly destroyed by God during the flood, rather than just drowned, hence the lack of humanoid remains in strata contemporary with all the fossils of extinct beasts.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:00,
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which is set after the flood...
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:24,
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there are various early writings about what they actually were, "offspring of angels and humans" being one theory, the other that they were entirely human and that "sons of God" oughtn't be taken literally. The Roman Catholic Church maintains the latter view, I think.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:31,
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what's all the fuss about this Jesus fella?
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:34,
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well it does mean something special, in Judaism, it means "a righteous person".
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:37,
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I like to delude myself that I'm funnier than that
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:26,
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Although those unicorns look like they were drawn by Escher...which one's in front?
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:24,
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and a cow Indian Elephant.
And the two bears are of different species leading to infertile offspring.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:31,
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And the two bears are of different species leading to infertile offspring.
presumably it happened at some point.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:40,
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You know the hardcore bible bashers reckon dinosaur fossils were put there by God to test our faith.
Fucking LOL.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:44,
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Fucking LOL.
I've never heard an actual Christian say that.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:48,
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and also that it was the devil who buried them. I think more current creationist hokum is that dinosaurs existed, just much more recently than scientists say as they were clearly created on the same day as all the other land animals.
I'm not entirely sure what they think happened to them.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:11,
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I'm not entirely sure what they think happened to them.
the penguins must have started out very early.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:47,
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:50,
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it's supposed to be about 450 feet long.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:43,
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You would need a boat the size of Wales (maybe even bigger) to house that many animals, and with durable enclosures, food supplies, etc.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:48,
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Standing room only, mind you.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:49,
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the fucker would have to be more than half aquarium...
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:50,
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is akin to criticising plot flaws in the tale of the Brothers Grimme
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:50,
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I should get back to making this Daft Punk helmet soon.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:52,
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is significantly more fun
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:54,
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Other than a group of people got together, wrote a few stories to explain what science couldn't at that time, and everyone got wet over it?
And yes I am a bit cranky today. XD
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:12,
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And yes I am a bit cranky today. XD
especially not the New Testament. Most of it isn't even stories.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:23,
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along with dismissing large parts of it as "metaphorical" because, for example, it would be inconvenient to sell all your possessions and give the money away to the poor
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:19,
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The new testament is more Hans Christian Andersson
see what I did there?
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:17,
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see what I did there?
though apparently he often spoke, and acted, metaphorically - presumably with a nod and a wink to Matthew, Mark, Luke or whoever had the notepad on that particular day...
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:23,
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It's a METAPHORICAL boat to house metaphorical animals
Everything's code for flying saucers and aliens etc
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:53,
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Everything's code for flying saucers and aliens etc
Sorry, I sneezed just now.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:55,
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Bartholomew%27s_Church,_Brighton
is supposedly exactly the same dimensions as the Ark as given in the Bible. It's certainly impressive, if nothing else.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:53,
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is supposedly exactly the same dimensions as the Ark as given in the Bible. It's certainly impressive, if nothing else.
It's actually a long, narrow hover-ship extending several miles into the distance over the water.
Either that or that black gloom inside disguises the fact that it's just a process of cell extraction for cloning and the bodies are being dumped in the sea behind.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:52,
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Either that or that black gloom inside disguises the fact that it's just a process of cell extraction for cloning and the bodies are being dumped in the sea behind.
And that is aside from all the other logistical flaws in the plot line.
Someone really should have proof-read the bible before they published it.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:54,
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Someone really should have proof-read the bible before they published it.
when the credulous will just lap it up anyway?
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:56,
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:P
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 16:59,
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I just wouldn't want to go and watch a zombie movie with you people.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:05,
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*shrugs*
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:11,
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:26,
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not like that other time, when it was a miracle and a really big deal and all that
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:00,
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you don't have to poo when you eat Manna. Which would certainly have been a boon in this case.
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:03,
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Uh-huh. 9 out of 10 tigers can't tell the difference between Mannaâ„¢ and the leading brand of real meat
It's GREEEEAAAAAT!
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:02,
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It's GREEEEAAAAAT!
but never realised he was going round and round in circles until this massive mound of crap broke the surface in the middle of the vast ocean.
Then three and a half thousand years later, along comes Columbus and sticks a flag in it...
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:04,
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Then three and a half thousand years later, along comes Columbus and sticks a flag in it...
This one was made 1/2 scale
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UddT1RXpqtQ&feature=related
also a full size replica in hong kong
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSXd1CiH6cE
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Wed 26 Oct 2011, 17:07,
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=UddT1RXpqtQ&feature=related
also a full size replica in hong kong
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSXd1CiH6cE

