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Home » Messageboard » New Uses For Old Monuments » Message 7445259

[challenge entry] What with the flood levels rising...


I give you Glastonbury Torch.

From the New Uses For Old Monuments challenge. See all 253 entries (closed)

(I helped save b3ta! An Eagle in Your Mind, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 15:57, archived)
# thats nice
that is
(I helped save b3ta! war3n3xt < I'm with stupid, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 15:58, archived)
# Woah, that's ace!
(Professor Kenny Martin Hmm? What?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 15:58, archived)
# ha
haagagagaga
(iamah, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 18:11, archived)
# coooooooooooooooool!
(I helped save b3ta! ivesb Highly specialised Clinical Physiologist crapbag, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 15:59, archived)
# third one's best, i think
(I helped save b3ta! plentyofants more ghee, vicar?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:01, archived)
# cool!!!
Mink!! come and look at these!!
(I helped save b3ta! ivesb Highly specialised Clinical Physiologist crapbag, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:02, archived)
# *comes running over*
*puff pant*

what is it?
(I helped save b3ta! Aphex The Mink Snackless, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:08, archived)
# you need to get into shape!
look!!
barnesy badges!
(I helped save b3ta! ivesb Highly specialised Clinical Physiologist crapbag, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:09, archived)
# Stop calling me Barnesy Badges!!!
(I helped save b3ta! Dixipoos Bye Bye Blackbird, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:10, archived)
# you said you liked it!!!
*sobs*
(I helped save b3ta! ivesb Highly specialised Clinical Physiologist crapbag, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:11, archived)
# Careful now son, you'll make your eyes run.
(Professor Kenny Martin Hmm? What?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:11, archived)
# they look ace!!
i can scare little kids on the bus now!
bwahahaha!
(I helped save b3ta! ivesb Highly specialised Clinical Physiologist crapbag, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:12, archived)
#
little kids on the bus my dad

O_o
(Professor Kenny Martin Hmm? What?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:13, archived)
# they work!
(I helped save b3ta! ivesb Highly specialised Clinical Physiologist crapbag, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:15, archived)
# i like the third one best
what about you?
(I helped save b3ta! Aphex The Mink Snackless, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:12, archived)
# third ftw!
if only i could stick it in me profile!
=(
(I helped save b3ta! ivesb Highly specialised Clinical Physiologist crapbag, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:13, archived)
# Give me your password and I'll do it
(I helped save b3ta! Dixipoos Bye Bye Blackbird, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:15, archived)
# haha!!
nice try!
(I helped save b3ta! ivesb Highly specialised Clinical Physiologist crapbag, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:17, archived)
# can't you do it at home?
(I helped save b3ta! Aphex The Mink Snackless, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:20, archived)
# nope.
since we've moved all the bills have increased so we are without cable, phone and tinterwebs for the moment.
(I helped save b3ta! ivesb Highly specialised Clinical Physiologist crapbag, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:21, archived)
#
*cough* pikey *cough*
(I helped save b3ta! Aphex The Mink Snackless, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:25, archived)
# quiet LIAR!!
wheres gronkpan and his baseless accusations when you need him?!
(I helped save b3ta! ivesb Highly specialised Clinical Physiologist crapbag, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:26, archived)
# What?
I'm serious
(I helped save b3ta! Dixipoos Bye Bye Blackbird, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:28, archived)
# He is trustworthy.
(I helped save b3ta! Captain Wow currently being a cunt in Infamous, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:30, archived)
# what about this?
(I helped save b3ta! Aphex The Mink Snackless, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:17, archived)
# nice!
looks like a ball!
(I helped save b3ta! ivesb Highly specialised Clinical Physiologist crapbag, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:18, archived)
# *tucks away*
*zips up fly*

now look at the badge!
(I helped save b3ta! Aphex The Mink Snackless, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:19, archived)
# yes yes very nice now get 'em off again!
(I helped save b3ta! ivesb Highly specialised Clinical Physiologist crapbag, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:20, archived)
# Aww

Lookit his little legs go
(I helped save b3ta! Jessie © needs pirate name suggestions, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:09, archived)
# *real lols*
(Professor Kenny Martin Hmm? What?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:11, archived)
# *runs like scooby doo*
(I helped save b3ta! Aphex The Mink Snackless, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:11, archived)
# JESSIE?
is it really you?
(I helped save b3ta! Aphex The Mink Snackless, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:12, archived)
# I think so
*has a good feel to check*
(I helped save b3ta! Jessie © needs pirate name suggestions, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:13, archived)
# *helps*
(Professor Kenny Martin Hmm? What?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:14, archived)
# *watches with the red death eyes*
(I helped save b3ta! ivesb Highly specialised Clinical Physiologist crapbag, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:15, archived)
# *deliberately doesn't look*
*hair stands up on back of neck anyway*
(Professor Kenny Martin Hmm? What?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:21, archived)
# *stares*
(I helped save b3ta! ivesb Highly specialised Clinical Physiologist crapbag, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:25, archived)
# *back of neck starts to singe*
(Professor Kenny Martin Hmm? What?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:27, archived)
# *curls round neck*
*sniffs*

yeah it's you.

*purrs*
(I helped save b3ta! Aphex The Mink Snackless, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:16, archived)
# do minks purr?
i mean really?
*curious*
(I helped save b3ta! ivesb Highly specialised Clinical Physiologist crapbag, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:17, archived)
#
i'm not really a mink
(I helped save b3ta! Aphex The Mink Snackless, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:19, archived)
# :-o
You're not?!

*keeps tasty tasty mink-snacks for self*
(Professor Kenny Martin Hmm? What?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:22, archived)
# *nervous laugh*
of course i am, i'm just trying to shut balsa boy up


now get with the mink snacks! gimme gimme gimme
(I helped save b3ta! Aphex The Mink Snackless, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:26, archived)
# Mmmf, ngff mmp huhuh!
*swallows*

Sorry, I've only got a couple... I'll try and steal get you some more for tomorrow.
(Professor Kenny Martin Hmm? What?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:28, archived)
# Whatcha eating meester?
(I helped save b3ta! Jessie © needs pirate name suggestions, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:30, archived)
# Nothing!
I wouldn't be eating at this time of day would I? I'd spoil my dinner!

No, not eating, nosir. Nothing to see here, not eating at all.

*tries to avoid breathing in Jessie's direction*
(Professor Kenny Martin Hmm? What?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:32, archived)
# *dobs in*
Miss! Miss! Kenny's EATING!


(I helped save b3ta! Sir Aunty Grampa Dave the Hat - enjoying a post-meridian muncheon - Ta! Cannaoogim!?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:33, archived)
# *stares*
(I helped save b3ta! Jessie © needs pirate name suggestions, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:34, archived)
# *avoids eyes*
(Professor Kenny Martin Hmm? What?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:45, archived)
# he's eating my mink snacks Jessie
*sobs pathetically*
(I helped save b3ta! Aphex The Mink Snackless, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:34, archived)
# What?!
HOW DARE YOU!

Why, I've never been so offended!


/guilty conscience blog
(Professor Kenny Martin Hmm? What?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:44, archived)
# LIES!!
*world falls apart*
(I helped save b3ta! ivesb Highly specialised Clinical Physiologist crapbag, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:23, archived)
# *scratches behind ears*
(I helped save b3ta! Jessie © needs pirate name suggestions, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:17, archived)
# *back leg twitches involuntarily*
(I helped save b3ta! Aphex The Mink Snackless, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:18, archived)
# you never replied to my gaz :(
(I helped save b3ta! mictoboy shitting in your cunt since, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:03, archived)
# : (
(I helped save b3ta! Aphex The Mink Snackless, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:17, archived)
# I think it's gone faulty.
(I helped save b3ta! The magic of chutney Shakes it like an Instagram filter!, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:00, archived)
# Heh! Aces!
I used to drive past the Tor every day to work ages ago. This would've made my journey lots more interesting.
(I helped save b3ta! An Eagle in Your Mind, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:02, archived)
# RAR
thats burnt my eye bag
(I helped save b3ta! war3n3xt < I'm with stupid, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:07, archived)
# You just burnt a hole in my monitor you irresponsible thug.
(I helped save b3ta! Dixipoos Bye Bye Blackbird, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:11, archived)
# CHRIST! It's Thursday!
A new day, a new challenge.

Woo to the lovely light.
(I helped save b3ta! collapsibletank procreates, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:06, archived)
# sorry, TJ (hooker). nicely done to the pic, though
did people reach a consensus on the zoo gaz's? i've had the standard request from the YOU'VE GOT SPAM account (asking to use this)
i had a look back at people's posts on the matter and in the newsletter but couldn't make out what the general opinion was.

(i) is it really them, or a wind-up? i'm presuming genuine
(ii) i don't mind them using my pictures as long as they credit me (they did last time, but didn't ask). i don't do this stuff to make a fortune - just for a bit of fun. it seems fair that i should get the same as a reader who sends an image in (but unless it's the reader winner, that's not an issue)
(iii) i know to be wary about the 'confirm you are the originator' bit, as, though i put it together, it uses a number of source pics i don't own the copyright to. i plan to tell them that
(iv) as the request doesn't say anything about transferring copyright to them (just asks to publish it in next week's mag), i don't how there can be any legal basis for this to be the case. i presume fears along those lines are unfounded

what do people think?
(I helped save b3ta! plentyofants more ghee, vicar?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:07, archived)
# personally, i think it's an easy decision
if you like the magazine, say yes
if you think it's a shite rag for idiots, say no
(I helped save b3ta! mictoboy shitting in your cunt since, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:10, archived)
# i think it's a shite rag for idiots
but,
i don't want to be too precious about "oh no, my copyrights". i take freely from source pictures on the web to use in the first place
i've always put stuff that's all my own work (like, say, my flickr pics) under a creative commons attribution-sharealike licence. so if, for some reason, they had wanted to use one of them, they'd have been free to, even though i don't personally like the magazine
(I helped save b3ta! plentyofants more ghee, vicar?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:15, archived)
# that's all well and good
i appreciate all the complex legal issues

but at the end of the day, if you think they're shite, why give them something for free?

i was asked by a charity if they could use one of my images, i said yes, no probs
but if zoo or nuts asked, they could go fuck themselves
(I helped save b3ta! mictoboy shitting in your cunt since, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:17, archived)
#
...with a 16 year old's cock
(I helped save b3ta! Dixipoos Bye Bye Blackbird, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:18, archived)
# pfft.
to address mictoboy & mofaha's comments above and below, though:
i suppose the comparison i have is to free software. whereas my silly pictures aren't comparable in terms of usefulness to, say an operating system or a web server, the producers of these things have released them under licences which allow anyone, even organisations they are completely opposed to, to use them, without the need to ask permission. i admire the spirit of that kind of thing.
(and that's why the work i can legitimately release under creative commons doesn't have the 'non-commercial use' restriction)
(I helped save b3ta! plentyofants more ghee, vicar?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:31, archived)
# no, fair do's
really,
i don't have an issue either way, if you think that letting them publish your pic is ok, do it. at least they've started asking (sort of)

all i know is, i wouldn't
(I helped save b3ta! mictoboy shitting in your cunt since, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:35, archived)
# That's fair enough.
I have some strong opinions about this but I'm happy to accept that they're just that - opinions.
Obviously this is a personal choice issue, and I definitely respect your right to make that choice.
(I helped save b3ta! mofaha ┐( ˘_˘)┌ ʅ(́◡◝)ʃ, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:47, archived)
# The difference is
you are not seeking material gain, and they are. Even if you argue that the 'you've got spam' images do not themselves make the publication money, they are essential filler which adds value and it would be easy to argue that they form an inducement to purchase. Thus, they have a monitary value. Why the fuck should these worthless imbeciles gain from your efforts?
(I helped save b3ta! mofaha ┐( ˘_˘)┌ ʅ(́◡◝)ʃ, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:18, archived)
#
(i) I don't know
(ii) I'm not sure
(iii) No idea
(iv) Couldn't really say

Hope this helps.


I'm sorry, I know I'm a cock. I make myself laugh sometimes though...
(Professor Kenny Martin Hmm? What?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:10, archived)
# look down \/
(I helped save b3ta! ivesb Highly specialised Clinical Physiologist crapbag, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:11, archived)
# You make others laugh too
Quite frequently infact
(I helped save b3ta! Jessie © needs pirate name suggestions, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:12, archived)
# Hooray!
*does happy dance*

*invites out to dinner tonight*
(Professor Kenny Martin Hmm? What?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:13, archived)
# *overhears*
*stops adjusting tie*
*looks across at huge bouquet*
*bursts into tears*
(I helped save b3ta! Dixipoos Bye Bye Blackbird, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:14, archived)
# ahem...
*bats red eyes*
(I helped save b3ta! ivesb Highly specialised Clinical Physiologist crapbag, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:16, archived)
# Aw, I'm sorry Dixon.
I'll take you out another night, m'kay?
(Professor Kenny Martin Hmm? What?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:24, archived)
# I thought our date was tomorrow night baby?
(I helped save b3ta! Jessie © needs pirate name suggestions, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:25, archived)
# Right, so I'll take him out on Saturday while you're at work.
Winnar!
(Professor Kenny Martin Hmm? What?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:26, archived)
# *glowers*
NOOOOOOOOO!


(I helped save b3ta! Sir Aunty Grampa Dave the Hat - enjoying a post-meridian muncheon - Ta! Cannaoogim!?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:39, archived)
# doesn't help
but does make me laugh...
(I helped save b3ta! plentyofants more ghee, vicar?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:16, archived)
# Will it be the winning entry and get you a prize
or just a filler where it gets printed and you get nowt?
(I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:11, archived)
# Even a consenting creator of the 'winning entry'
get nothing... take a look at the pages, they all claim to be sent in by some third party, and the 'consent' email makes it clear you'll get nothing in any event.
(I helped save b3ta! mofaha ┐( ˘_˘)┌ ʅ(́◡◝)ʃ, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:15, archived)
# I got a portable DVD player
and, er, I forget what the other thing was
(I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:18, archived)
# But didn't you actively threaten them?
(I helped save b3ta! mofaha ┐( ˘_˘)┌ ʅ(́◡◝)ʃ, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:19, archived)
# no, just asked them nicely
I find anger and violence rarely gets you what you want
(I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:21, archived)
# My point is
they did not offer, and had you let it go you would have received nothing. I think that's sharp practice.
Seriously, this whole thing would be a non-issue for me were it not for the fact that the publications themselves are so fucking horrible and their methods are so demonstrably underhand and dishonest.
(I helped save b3ta! mofaha ┐( ˘_˘)┌ ʅ(́◡◝)ʃ, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:25, archived)
# true
If they had asked before printing I would have said no - unless the prize was worth it ;)

They really are a shocking excuse for a publication, and I think Riverghost deserves a medal for having the nerve to buy them each week.
(I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:34, archived)
# Yeah, though to be honest
I think he uses this as an excuse ;)
(I helped save b3ta! mofaha ┐( ˘_˘)┌ ʅ(́◡◝)ʃ, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:36, archived)
# ^This
I felt kind of dirty just for flicking through one when I was first told about the 'all pics stolen from b3ta' disclaimer and wanted to see it for myself.
(I helped save b3ta! Afinkawan Yes I can hear you Clem Fandango, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:37, archived)
# I got one for emailing them when they used one of my pics as 'Reader Winner'.
Didn't need to threaten them but I assume that is only because others had already done the good work putting them on the run.
(I helped save b3ta! Afinkawan Yes I can hear you Clem Fandango, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:22, archived)
# Personally
I've gotten to the point where I think anyone who consents to this is actively encouraging the continuing theft of our images.
(I helped save b3ta! mofaha ┐( ˘_˘)┌ ʅ(́◡◝)ʃ, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:13, archived)
# ^ This
Tell 'em to fuck off. They're only throwing a strop because TGA, Manic, BBD'or etc. won't let them use their stuff.

Do you really want to be second choice for a shitrag like Zoo?

WELL? DO YOU?
(I helped save b3ta! Afinkawan Yes I can hear you Clem Fandango, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:19, archived)
# SCAAAABS!!!!
(I helped save b3ta! Dixipoos Bye Bye Blackbird, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:19, archived)
# SPLITTERS!!!
(I helped save b3ta! mofaha ┐( ˘_˘)┌ ʅ(́◡◝)ʃ, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:20, archived)
# *downloads lots of copywrited source pics from google*
(I helped save b3ta! mictoboy shitting in your cunt since, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:20, archived)
# Fair use dude, fair use.
(I helped save b3ta! mofaha ┐( ˘_˘)┌ ʅ(́◡◝)ʃ, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:21, archived)
# not in the uk
(I helped save b3ta! mictoboy shitting in your cunt since, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:22, archived)
# I don't know about that
but I've very sure about the laws that govern my usage of materials, and they fall within fair use.
(I helped save b3ta! mofaha ┐( ˘_˘)┌ ʅ(́◡◝)ʃ, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:28, archived)
# fair use is a US trade law
and copyrights have limitations and exemptions under that. There is no real legal thing called 'fair use' However placing images on the internet without establishing intellectual property rights could be deemed as releasing them into the public domain.
(I helped save b3ta! Pasanonic 's been known to cause insanity in laboratory mice, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:26, archived)
# Semantics.
There is a well-established and workable definition of fair use in most media in the US. Granted it is open to interpretation, but my personal use of images falls easily within the accepted definition.
(I helped save b3ta! mofaha ┐( ˘_˘)┌ ʅ(́◡◝)ʃ, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:30, archived)
# do you only use images you have permission to use in the creation of your work?
because i don't. and i'd feel a bit reluctant to stop other people using those images i've created from them.
in fact, i'd like to credit my source images when i post, only i know that probably opens me up to more trouble than it's worth
(I helped save b3ta! plentyofants more ghee, vicar?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:24, archived)
# The difference here
is we don't make money from those images so we're either just about legal or at least not worth the effort of suing.

Zoo makes money from selling the magazine. They wouldn't be allowed to just steal people's articles off the net to print, nor would they get away with raiding the flickr pages of freelance photographers to reprint, for example.

Add to that the fact that you don't have permission to use the source images you use and you might be on shaky ground then allowing someone else to use the pics for gain.
(I helped save b3ta! Afinkawan Yes I can hear you Clem Fandango, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:27, archived)
# Also
you say you'd be reluctant to stop someone doing something with a picture you'd made from other people's pictures.

Fair enough but you can't stop them. Actively telling them they can use them might sort of absolve them from any legal difficulty.

Don't actively do either one then all you have to worry about is whether you're okay making the pictures you make.
(I helped save b3ta! Afinkawan Yes I can hear you Clem Fandango, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:33, archived)
# that last bit is more the side i was worried about
i don't want to expose myself to legal risk just by letting them print it. i was hoping that a fairly informal "well, i don't object to you printing it if you like, but bear in mind that it was made with the use of other people's work that i don't own the copyright to"
(I helped save b3ta! plentyofants more ghee, vicar?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:36, archived)
# They'll read that as 'Yes'
Especially if they also want you to actively email it to them.
(I helped save b3ta! Afinkawan Yes I can hear you Clem Fandango, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:43, archived)
# no, they don't want me to email them - just email telling them it's ok to use it
and i presume (thinking about Barbarossa's comment), that just mailing the address with the subject couldn't considered consent to additional terms not mentioned in the gaz, as there can be no presumption that i would have seen & agreed to such terms (indeed, i haven't seen any)
(I helped save b3ta! plentyofants more ghee, vicar?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:49, archived)
# like I said, if you want the kudos then do it
but ensure you explain that it's created under a CC license ( and put it in your profile, linking to said license and tell them it's a one use deal for this issue.

I'd rather hope that you'd hold out though.
(I helped save b3ta! Pasanonic 's been known to cause insanity in laboratory mice, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:52, archived)
# no. i don't really like zoo, so it's not about kudos (& they've used ones before, anyway)
it's more about what i'd see as the right thing to do, and not wanting to be hypocritical, given my own attitude to sources
sadly, i'd like to put my work under a cc licence, but there's only about 3 of them that don't use anyone else's work, so i don't feel in a position to do so. better to leave the legal situation murky rather than be accused of licensing out other people's pictures
(I helped save b3ta! plentyofants more ghee, vicar?, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 17:01, archived)
# If your work
is considered parody of the original then it can be deemed as 'transformative' and no-one can claim breach of copyright. I read it and there is legal precedence.
Mattel vs Tom Forsyth regarding food chain barbie. (cf. the 2003 9th Circuit case Mattel Inc. v. Walking Mountain Productions). ( apprently)
(I helped save b3ta! Pasanonic 's been known to cause insanity in laboratory mice, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 17:06, archived)
# Is the Kudos of your name in a
tits and ass mag really worth it when most of b3ta are holding out? If they can't get the source material this way they will have to continue to have a shitty page like the recent non b3ta ones or they will have to admit that they have a wealth of talent on tap here that they could encourage with compensation.

Oh and you can be sure that they are reading all this. Wednesday/Thursday is their trawl b3ta time. They have to get things to the printer by morning I would expect. It hits the shelves Sunday night.
(I helped save b3ta! Pasanonic 's been known to cause insanity in laboratory mice, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:31, archived)
# I think ignore them
like most of us are doing. Perhaps they will adopt a different stance soon. Like fucking paying for their material.
(I helped save b3ta! Pasanonic 's been known to cause insanity in laboratory mice, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:20, archived)
# excellent!
]

(I helped save b3ta! Wasp Box like a nervous random stranger at a glory hole, Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:12, archived)