Debate vote of no confidence for Jeremy Hunt
It's gaining momentum; only takes a sec.
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Turquoise Hexagon Sun has just dropped acid on, Wed 22 Jul 2015, 19:52,
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160,161 signatures of a required 100,000.
Tories will whip it through against anyway so what will it achieve?
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wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Wed 22 Jul 2015, 19:59,
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Yeah.
All hospitals should close on the weekends. No more night shifts either. When I'm prime minister this will happen. I'll also outlaw private healthcare.
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Prufrock Lucifer, son of the morning!, Wed 22 Jul 2015, 20:03,
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Heart attack at 6pm on a Friday?
TOUGH FUCKING SHIT, LOSER
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drimble he'd been white, he'd been black, Wed 22 Jul 2015, 20:10,
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Actually
Statistically most heart attacks occur on Monday mornings, and under my plans all the doctors will be well rested after their weekend off so will be in a better state to treat their cardiacally challenged fatties.
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Prufrock Lucifer, son of the morning!, Wed 22 Jul 2015, 20:41,
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Last time I was in hospital a nurse pointed out to me it already was a 7 day a week service for them.
Except for staff like doctors, consultants lab workers etc.
Health seems to be the only emergency service that has weekends off.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 22 Jul 2015, 20:55,
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Except that is a fucking lie.
i am a consultant. I am in this weekend. As i was last weekend, and the weekend before that. The lab runs a 24/7 service.
Weekends off my fucking arse.
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sm.pl.crt.rs I don't fucking know, do I?, Wed 22 Jul 2015, 22:43,
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^This^
Massively.
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sir_spicious2000 Crap I've watched: www.filmplop.blogspot.com/, Wed 22 Jul 2015, 23:00,
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Fucking lie my arse.
2 months ago my boy was in Neo Natal on a ventilator.
Nursing levels were 100% 7 days a week, consultants dropped right off at the weekend.
The nurses told me they have massive problems tracking down a consultant at weekends.
Yes you get some cover but it's not the same level.
So are you sitting there and telling me it is a lie that staffing levels are reduced at weekends?
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Thu 23 Jul 2015, 8:47,
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calm down both of you...
he was clearly saying that "the health service has the weekends off" as a catch all phrase is a lie... as he himself works weekends...
you are saying that your experience is different, having not had access to consultants at weekends...
he's probably a little bullish, because it's his job and he's passionate about it.
you are being reactionary because the story is about 'your boy' and people lose rationality when talking about their kids.
(, Thu 23 Jul 2015, 9:51, Reply)
Is this like when all the teachers decided they didn't like Michael Gove
simply because he had the gall to say they should be binned if they're shit?
Not being able to get a doctor at the weekend is bordering on insanity. Why shouldn't they have to do a shift at the weekend every now and again?
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evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Wed 22 Jul 2015, 21:38,
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Fucking hell, why do you believe this bullshit?
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sm.pl.crt.rs I don't fucking know, do I?, Wed 22 Jul 2015, 22:44,
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Why is it bullshit to want to see a G.P at weekends?
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Thu 23 Jul 2015, 8:53,
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It wasn't just that though was it?
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wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Wed 22 Jul 2015, 22:46,
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You retarded cunt. THERE. ARE. CONSULTANTS. WORKING. EVERY. FUCKING. DAY. OF. THE. FUCKING. YEAR.
Swallow the tory lies along with Michael Gove's cum why don't you?
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da5id <YOUR SIG HERE>, Wed 22 Jul 2015, 22:54,
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Hospitals and supporting functions? Fine. I have no issues there, waiting times excepted.
But if I want an appointment with my doctor (i.e. GP) it means taking a full day* off work for about ten minutes worth of attention. That's assuming I can get an appointment within the next fortnight, otherwise it's a case of ringing up every morning in the hope that I can both get a cancellation there and short-notice leave from work.
To be honest I've all but given up and just go to the walk-in centre with anything I can't get over myself; at least they're open on Saturdays. I've got a lot of respect for doctors having seen what my cousin has had to do to get into general practice, but the fact of the matter is that the day when it's easiest for most people to visit the doctor is the same day that they're closed. If I could find a practice that was open even just one or two Saturdays in a month I'd switch before you can say repeat prescription.
Gove is still a clueless tory, but even raving lunatics will occasionally say something that makes sense.
*I could manage just a half day but my journey to work is 90 minutes each way and doctors tend not to want patients on their books who don't live locally.
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jonbob loves you, Wed 22 Jul 2015, 23:14,
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90 mins journey to work?! you poor bastard.
I'm lucky, my GP is open Saturdays and has early and late appts for people who work. The receptionists still conform to the miserable, dried up, husk-bitch industry standard tho.
(, Thu 23 Jul 2015, 7:24, Reply)
Same as me, 90 minute journey to work.
I have to phone up at 8:30 when I should already be at work to find out if I can be seen that day otherwise it's at least a 2 week wait.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Thu 23 Jul 2015, 8:59,
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So basically you want the doctor to work Saturdays so you can have a nice 9 to 5 weekday job?
And your solution is to clog up the walk in centre on a Saturday and wonder why the healthcare budget keeps spiralling?
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da5id <YOUR SIG HERE>, Thu 23 Jul 2015, 9:17,
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The bastard probably expects the Fire Brigade and Police workers to work shifts at weekends as well so he can enjoy those public services.
What an ungrateful cunt he is.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Thu 23 Jul 2015, 9:23,
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Well...
Don't forget that most paediatric fractures also happen at weekends (kids playing out), most drunken injuries happen at weekends (friday and Saturday night out because no work the next day), most granny dumping happens at weekends and most sporting injuries happen at weekends.
Perhaps if everybody worked 7 days full shift there'd be no excess mortality at weekends...
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da5id <YOUR SIG HERE>, Thu 23 Jul 2015, 10:08,
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"7 day FULL shift" Nice strawman there.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Thu 23 Jul 2015, 10:54,
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Actually I work 10-6 and alternate Saturdays.
I do that so I can make sure my nan is ok on a morning but still get back in time to make her a hot meal and spend some time before she goes to bed.
Normally you seem quite reasonable da5id but in this case I'm inclined to say get off your fucking high horse.
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jonbob loves you, Thu 23 Jul 2015, 10:47,
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You're right. Sorry. It's just every new term of every government the same cycle of events happens:
1. The incoming health secretary realises that healthcare costs have spiralled out of control, mainly because social support backup has died leaving the NHS to provide services well beyond its original remit
2. They impose a cosmetic system change that ends up burning out already stressed out staff of all levels (nurses, doctors both junior and consultant).
3. They can't blame the nurses (the Sun would never stand for that) but because consultants are still seen as they were in 1930s Punch cartoons, they blame them. Said consultants oppose the cosmetic system change, and get accused of being lazy and uncooperative.
TL:DR version: when someone suggests by implication that Michael Gove is right, the red mist descends!
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da5id <YOUR SIG HERE>, Thu 23 Jul 2015, 11:29,
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Forgiven, forgotten.
As a public sector worker I'm also acutely aware of what the rhetoric is any time there's a change of government. At the moment I'm looking forward to seeing them try to explain why they don't pay a lot of their civil servants the so-called living wage.
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jonbob loves you, Thu 23 Jul 2015, 11:55,
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*slow claps*
When someone dares, point out ANYTHING they are not quite happy with in teaching or health they are branded Tory Scum.
How dare the plebs have a say in these sainted institutions.
Are you claiming that there are the same amount of consultants, doctors etc on staff at weekends?
Because if you are you are fucking deluded.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Thu 23 Jul 2015, 8:52,
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No, there aren't.
If however you want to pay for the consultant dermatologist to be sat in clinic at 3am Saturday night, and pay the ambulance transport people to bring patients to see him then, and pay the heating, lighting and electricity costs to keep outpatients busy at that time then fine.
If however you want to assume that all consultants are dealing with life-threatening emergencies, but then are all swanning off to the golf course to leave people to die, then you have been watching far too much Holby City.
Consultants were accused of not putting the hours in, so the last lot introduced stringent checks on exactly what they do, and paid by the hour worked in hospital (DCC PAs) as well as all the supporting paperwork and training that is mandatory (SPA PAs).
They thought a baseline should be 10 PAs of 4 hours each, yet were surprised that most consultants were doing 12 or so, yet only being paid for 10. There was no mechanism to allow consultants to continue working for free, so many trusts had to give the consultant body a pay rise OR DELIBERATELY BRING THEIR HOURS DOWN AGAINST THE WISHES OF THE CONSULTANTS DOING THE EXTRA WORK FOR FREE!!!
To then blame lazy consultants for the understaffing and underfunding is would be laughable if it were not so tragic
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da5id <YOUR SIG HERE>, Thu 23 Jul 2015, 9:15,
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I'm talking about consultants on high dependency wards like neo natal.
Not dermatologists.
Bedfordshire Hospital, neo natal unit, 2 months ago. Consultants at weekends were hardly seen doing rounds. compared to during weekday hours.
Nursing staff told me that they have problems tracking down a consultant at weekends.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Thu 23 Jul 2015, 9:25,
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OK. Just as a matter of interest, does the hospital actually employ consultants to do this?
Most hospitals are happy paying for 'on call availability' which means a consultant is available to come in to work if there is an exceptional emergency. If you want routine availability on the ward, in A&E etc then you need the staff.
It's the difference between paying a plumber full fee for standing next to your boiler all day in case there's a problem vs paying him when needed (or not in the case of on call availability). Look upon it as a type of zero hours contract.
When most 50 year old consultants were training, they worked 120 hour weeks commonly, and there were outcries about tired doctors making mistakes. The EWTD has limited this to 48 hours (though most consultants voluntarily 'opt out')
Who therefore is there on NICU at weekends? There are not enough NICU consultants to go around. This has been known for years, and the obvious solution is to have full shift consultant care in larger centres.
This has happened since the Darzi review of trauma services centred trauma care in London to The Royal London, Kings, Georges and Mary's. All these centres have 24/7/365 consultants in A&E, ITU, theatres etc.
So what does Joe Public do? whines that they want to close the poor quality, understaffed and underexperienced local A&E departments.
Unfortunately the same holds true for NICU. If you want high quality care, there are minimum volumes compatible with being able to staff with consultants and this means supra-regional centres I'm afraid. It may mean you have to travel to GOSH, but at least you'd have the care when there.
It may also be in your specific case that the consultant was operating (NICU consultants are usually paediatric anaesthetists and as such may have been providing a GA for little George's broken wrist.
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da5id <YOUR SIG HERE>, Thu 23 Jul 2015, 10:05,
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How they employ them is not something they deemed to share with me.
All I know is what I saw and was told I didn't get to inspect the wording of their contracts.
Monday to Friday, adequate cover by consultants.
Weekends inadequate cover.
Source nursing staff on a neo natal ward.
If there is deemed a need for a certain amount of staff monday to friday, why is there less staff on a weekend?
The nurses seem pretty fucked off that they were expected to take up the slack when there was reduced cover.
So, there is already a 7 day a week NHS for Nursing staff.
But not for Doctors, G.Ps etc. Reduced cover is not the same.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Thu 23 Jul 2015, 10:59,
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OK, we agree. There is inadequate cover at weekends by consultants.
What i object to is the implication that it is consultants who are employed to work then not turning up. It is in fact that the trusts do not employ enough to be able to staff the place at weekends and the weekdays.
If they shifted people around, you'd just end up with a bit less cover spread out through the week, and the same mortality/ morbidity.
All I'm saying is that it is the employing trusts that decide to have fewer staff on at weekends to save money, not the consultants themselves skiving off.
Anyway, back to clinic!
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da5id <YOUR SIG HERE>, Thu 23 Jul 2015, 11:35,
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It would indeed be insanity. That's why it doesn't happen.
Privatising the NHS would be insanity.
(, Wed 22 Jul 2015, 23:00, Reply)
Quick question?
Dont want to get all political but was it all so much better under a labour government?
Genuinely want to know from those who work in the health service. I get the sense
it has little to do with the colour of the ruling party.
(, Thu 23 Jul 2015, 1:27, Reply)
Nobody died between 1997 and 2010.
It was a golden age of health where the blind could see, the crippled could walk and everyone had a shiny colon.
As soon as the tories came in everyone got AIDs :(
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Draconacticus Reject shampoo. Demand real poo!, Thu 23 Jul 2015, 11:21,
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