Thanks France.
Thance.
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Ambegris likes his tea stirred anti-clockwise, Mon 8 Jul 2024, 1:24,
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Serious question.
But what makes National Rally 'Far-right'?
About the only policy I've seen that would come close to constituting 'far-right' would be their stance on preventing dual-nationality citizens from being employed in sensitive defence/military positions. But I've only done a few minutes reading on them. Can somebody summarise?
(, Mon 8 Jul 2024, 5:43, Share, Reply)
serious reply
they're proposing to deprive babies born in France of the possibility of becoming French citizens for one you faux-ignorant fuckwit. Preserving 'the bloodline' - Marshal Pétain would be proud.
(, Mon 8 Jul 2024, 6:47, Share, Reply)
'The National Rally has vowed to end birthright citizenship, under which children born to two foreign parents in France automatically obtain French citizenship at the age of 18. To be eligible they must also be living in the country at the time they turn 18 and have lived in the country for a minimum of five years since the age of 11'
I dunno. Seems reasonable to me. But I'm clearly not as emotionally invested in it all as you seem to be.
(, Mon 8 Jul 2024, 9:07, Share, Reply)
Thank you for assuming I'm faux-ignorant and not just ignorant, pet.
Means a lot.
(, Mon 8 Jul 2024, 9:23, Share, Reply)
I only assume people are being faux-ignorant
if I have seen them saying things in the past that are not ignorant.
In this particular case, I don't have enough information to say either way.
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My Name was saying these words inside your head on, Mon 8 Jul 2024, 15:07,
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these are just generalist buckets, but in le pen's case i reckon it's the right one, no pun intended
to give a few examples, she proposes a national preference policy, where french citizens born in france would get preferential access to a variety of government services over french citizens born overseas, essentially creating two classes of citizenship. Then you've got the "de-islamification" policies, the halting of all legal immigration, creating a "privileged partnership with russia", taking france out of nato, withdrawing support for renewables, bring back the death penalty, cut people off welfare, etc.
But essentially they're a party that blames all frances woes on immigrants, offering the return to white paradise vision that Farage was selling with brexit. she has cut out some of the heavy racist, super extreme positions like holocaust denialism that the party (and her dad) used to have to try to win more of the centre, though how much they've really moved away is debatable.
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Mon 8 Jul 2024, 7:03,
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A great deal of that sounds like standard right-wing fare as opposed to being 'far-right', though.
I do get the impression that people are comparing her party to the National Front when it was under her Dad's leadership and assuming 'Oh, they must still be far-right, then', and no doubt they're popular with the far-right in France.
Much of the immigration stuff they're proposing seems incredibly similar to what is already in place: www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2023/12/20/what-s-in-france-s-controversial-immigration-law_6361995_7.html
(, Mon 8 Jul 2024, 9:05, Share, Reply)
Is that not a case of the right moving further towards the far right
as opposed to the far right moving towards the centre?
Suella Braverman providing a good example.
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wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Mon 8 Jul 2024, 10:44,
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these things are subjective, but those changes are a long way from le pen's platform
just say the tories in england decided to enact le pen's policy and halt ALL immigration and routes to citizenship, not just posturing about boats. And just say they told all the indian and pakistani born british citizens in england that they couldnt access services. Or me for that matter. I swore allegiance to betty and paid taxes for 10 years. Or that they were supporting putin now. I reckon people would reasonably consider they'd moved a lot further to the right to a more extreme position, to the far right. That's where le pen's party sits.
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Mon 8 Jul 2024, 15:43,
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The restriction to services is for foreign nationals living in France, not to naturalised French citizens.
And there's been no mention by her party about halting ALL immigration from what I've read so far.
Not that I'm doubting you, but do you have a link that more accurately outlines their manifesto?
(, Mon 8 Jul 2024, 16:32, Share, Reply)
www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39625509.amp
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/politics/article/2024/06/23/le-pen-s-rn-takes-aim-at-dual-nationals-and-french-of-foreign-origin_6675497_5.html
I should add that their policies on many things arent that well articulated or clear. There's very little detail on how any would be implemented, and many would require a change in the constitution and a withdrawal from the EU. They say certain things to certain groups, or the party president will say one thing then Le Pen will play it down. They said foreign born french citizens would be treated differently, but then they say the next week they and dual citizens have nothing to fear if they don't make trouble, but they've already said dual french citizens would be restricted from public positions under them. They're certainly dog whistling to their racist nationalist base. What will they do if given power? I guess that depend on how much you think they've changed their spots from their relatively recent extremist views.
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Mon 8 Jul 2024, 23:25,
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And Labour?
Do they have delineated policies, or were they a bit vague before the election.
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An Egg ,D, Tue 9 Jul 2024, 2:00,
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This may be true too, but the question was what makes the national rally far right
Starmer might be planning to launch some secret socialist five year plan but most people's guesses are that he'll be more likely centrist and disappoint most of the corbyn brigade, and we have the fairly centrist blair years as their benchmark.
Im making the argument that le pen's party are far more to the right than the tories, and may well be quite extreme if given power over policy. Like reform, they attract their fair share of fruitcake candidates that even the tories would disown. Their bedfellows certainly are far right, they're not reaching out to the tories, its Orban and Bannon. Nationalist, xenophobic, authoritarian, great replacement theory cunts
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Tue 9 Jul 2024, 3:15,
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But if we're going strictly by National Rally's manifesto as it stands
They're Right-wing as opposed to 'Far-right', no?
I completely agree that the party certainly has the potential to become far-right should they ever come into power, but the media labeling them as such at the moment just feels like an opportunity for extra clicks, and it goes without saying why their opposition are using that particular term.
(, Tue 9 Jul 2024, 5:46, Share, Reply)
Do you think the Nazi's were elected on a platform of killing millions of people in death camps?
Why would you go on the manifesto as it stands when the party and it's most influential people have a history of being openly fascist? I doubt you went purely on what Corbyn said as leader and ignored what he'd said before winning leadership of Labour.
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tickle I was away, Tue 9 Jul 2024, 8:40,
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The NSDAP manifesto was significantly more Right-wing than National Rally's
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Program
(, Tue 9 Jul 2024, 9:18, Share, Reply)
The Nazis didn't have the history of the Nazis reminding people that Nazis are bad
so it's not surprising the new Nazis are hiding their Naziness more than the OG Nazis.
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tickle I was away, Sat 20 Jul 2024, 11:19,
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no Macron's party is the centre right party, the national rally is the far right, as is their current manifesto such as it is
I've explained it as concisely as I can. this categorisation, though not precise, is not something that is disputed in France, the originator of the terms. National Rally are a far right nativist, anti-islam, authoritarian party.. they share similar platforms with other far right parties like the German AFD, Geert's freedom party, Meloni's Fratelli party, orbans fidesz. all these countries also have centre right wing parties, these are the far right alternatives.
And they're all shit. Hungary's economy is tanking, 25% inflation, but he's fucking the press and the judiciary to stay in power. Meloni in italy is trying to get powers to broadcast nothing but party propaganda in the lead up to the election. Like brexit, it's s simple bullshit fantasy of returning to an idealised white past, designed to appeal to the simple, racists, and growing army of incels, but what they deliver is to make things shitter and nastier for everyone while consolidating undemocratic, unaccountable power
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Tue 9 Jul 2024, 11:33,
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Maybe do a few more minutes of research then.
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wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Mon 8 Jul 2024, 7:54,
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It's okay.
A couple of people who actually knew how to answer the question helped out :)
(, Mon 8 Jul 2024, 9:22, Share, Reply)
But is she a pen?
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evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Mon 8 Jul 2024, 12:19,
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Ceci n'est pas une stilo
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Ambegris likes his tea stirred anti-clockwise, Mon 8 Jul 2024, 13:37,
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"I'm just asking questions"
timjwise.medium.com/im-just-asking-questions-is-the-rhetoric-of-assholes-and-grifters-5cd0825daac
(, Tue 9 Jul 2024, 11:11, Share, Reply)