Getting Old
Drimble asks: When was it last brought home to you just how old you're getting? We last asked this in 2004, and you're eight years older now. Eight. Years.
( , Thu 7 Jun 2012, 13:24)
Drimble asks: When was it last brought home to you just how old you're getting? We last asked this in 2004, and you're eight years older now. Eight. Years.
( , Thu 7 Jun 2012, 13:24)
This question is now closed.
Just this morning
Faith no More's ANGEL DUST is 20 years old.
I think it's time I had a talk with my kids, I'll just tell 'em what my daddy told me...
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 14:00, 5 replies)
Faith no More's ANGEL DUST is 20 years old.
I think it's time I had a talk with my kids, I'll just tell 'em what my daddy told me...
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 14:00, 5 replies)
old
Realising last weekend that I remember the silver jubilee and exactly what we all dressed up as for the street party. ( doctor who, a Darlek, miss world and a bunny girl )
35 fucking years ago......
I'm ONLY 40.
I was forced to telephone my mum to complain, then shared my pain by asking where she was for the coronation. Cheered me right up that did!
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 13:58, 1 reply)
Realising last weekend that I remember the silver jubilee and exactly what we all dressed up as for the street party. ( doctor who, a Darlek, miss world and a bunny girl )
35 fucking years ago......
I'm ONLY 40.
I was forced to telephone my mum to complain, then shared my pain by asking where she was for the coronation. Cheered me right up that did!
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 13:58, 1 reply)
When I was young
the Sex Pistols were old-style punk, and the Dead Kennedys were new punk. Some time ago my ex's little brother told me that, to his friends, the Dead Kennedys were old-style punk and Blink182 were new punk. I think Blink182 are old-style punk now.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 13:54, 1 reply)
the Sex Pistols were old-style punk, and the Dead Kennedys were new punk. Some time ago my ex's little brother told me that, to his friends, the Dead Kennedys were old-style punk and Blink182 were new punk. I think Blink182 are old-style punk now.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 13:54, 1 reply)
I work with a chap who's 21
I have to keep telling him off for starting sentences with the words "Back in the day..." on the basis that, at 21 years of age, there IS no 'day' for anything to be 'back in'.
For example: "I remember back in the day, when they first started using Chip and Pin..." Bollocks! Back in the day, they had great big clunky plastic roller things that they'd use to take a copy of the details on your Access card (your flexible friend). And that's only if you were flash. Most of us had chequebooks and a handful of groats. Chip and Pin came in about six months ago.
It's like a sales assistant in PC World starting a sentence "To my knowledge..."
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 13:48, 2 replies)
I have to keep telling him off for starting sentences with the words "Back in the day..." on the basis that, at 21 years of age, there IS no 'day' for anything to be 'back in'.
For example: "I remember back in the day, when they first started using Chip and Pin..." Bollocks! Back in the day, they had great big clunky plastic roller things that they'd use to take a copy of the details on your Access card (your flexible friend). And that's only if you were flash. Most of us had chequebooks and a handful of groats. Chip and Pin came in about six months ago.
It's like a sales assistant in PC World starting a sentence "To my knowledge..."
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 13:48, 2 replies)
One of the ace things I'm looking forward to when I become an old man
Is talking about The Old Days(TM) in terms of how much a gallon of petrol cost, and how much a pint of beer was back then.
For shits n' giggles (which may become unavoidable), I may chuck in references to cigarettes, to see the faces of the young ones go "Cigar ... what, now?"
I'm halfway there already - I clearly remember my mate swearing that he'd give up smoking when it became £2-50 a pack, because that's just ridiculous.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 13:41, 2 replies)
Is talking about The Old Days(TM) in terms of how much a gallon of petrol cost, and how much a pint of beer was back then.
For shits n' giggles (which may become unavoidable), I may chuck in references to cigarettes, to see the faces of the young ones go "Cigar ... what, now?"
I'm halfway there already - I clearly remember my mate swearing that he'd give up smoking when it became £2-50 a pack, because that's just ridiculous.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 13:41, 2 replies)
Pub Conversation
Having a nice quiet pint in a pub recently with a friend and I pointed out two other customers. "Look at those two sad, fat, balding old gits over there; Thats us in 30 years time"
"You short-sighted fool," he replied "thats a mirror!"
(Stolen from someone on t'internet)
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 13:26, Reply)
Having a nice quiet pint in a pub recently with a friend and I pointed out two other customers. "Look at those two sad, fat, balding old gits over there; Thats us in 30 years time"
"You short-sighted fool," he replied "thats a mirror!"
(Stolen from someone on t'internet)
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 13:26, Reply)
Your age
is directly proportionate to the amount of trolley token keyrings you own.
Just keep a pound coin for fuck's sake
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 13:22, 4 replies)
is directly proportionate to the amount of trolley token keyrings you own.
Just keep a pound coin for fuck's sake
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 13:22, 4 replies)
2 days ago
standing on the doorstep, watching my nephews playing in the garden.
postman comes along, sees the kids and hands them a few letters.
"here you go, boys," he says, "give these to your grandma."
i could have punched the cunt.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 12:57, 9 replies)
standing on the doorstep, watching my nephews playing in the garden.
postman comes along, sees the kids and hands them a few letters.
"here you go, boys," he says, "give these to your grandma."
i could have punched the cunt.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 12:57, 9 replies)
Pesky kids...
When my 8yr old held up a VHS tape and looking puzzled asked what it was.
More recently when my 4yr old held up a CD (in case) and asked "Is this a DVD?"
My response of "No, it's a CD", confused him no end...."But it looks like a DVD dad!".....
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 12:43, 5 replies)
When my 8yr old held up a VHS tape and looking puzzled asked what it was.
More recently when my 4yr old held up a CD (in case) and asked "Is this a DVD?"
My response of "No, it's a CD", confused him no end...."But it looks like a DVD dad!".....
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 12:43, 5 replies)
My first legal pint...
Cost 72p. First night a fair setup in town, all the rides were 10p a go. 8p admittance to the (now closed) local swimming pool. White dog poo was everywhere (probably because I'd just tracked it through the house on the bottom of my shoes).
Uh huh - I'm getting old
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 12:41, 2 replies)
Cost 72p. First night a fair setup in town, all the rides were 10p a go. 8p admittance to the (now closed) local swimming pool. White dog poo was everywhere (probably because I'd just tracked it through the house on the bottom of my shoes).
Uh huh - I'm getting old
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 12:41, 2 replies)
Oh holy crap.
Time and Time ago a somewhat older Chum of mine had children, a daughter and a son. I used to stay out of their way as far as possible because having an enthusiastic four year old run face first into your kneecaps is painful and inconvenient. But in general I was aware that there were small children about the place.
Fast forward a decade or so, I'm hanging out with a lovely lass who in addition to being mouthwateringly attractive and enthusiastic in most of the places that matter* also has the clever thinky brain and teaches maths.
Chum's daughter could do with a little extra help in the sums department so an arrangement is made and Best Beloved teaches her in exchange for pictures of the Queen.
More years pass, and a party is held at Chum's place, wine flows, cheese is eaten in quantity, and for some reason tequilla slammers are perpetrated in the increasingly loud and chaotic kitchen.
I choose this point to head outside for air.
Where I discover that the "young people" are having their own separate party in gazebo in the garden, relaxing on rugs, smoking slightly illicit rollies and talking about where they're headed for university.
A pretty girl is lying face down on a rug, one foot at the end of a long shapely leg kicking idling in the air as she expounds to a friend regarding some variety of utter nonsense.
The wind picks up just a little. A single errant zephyr with mischief on its mind scampers over the garden, carving swirling patterns into the long grass and playfully flicking the hem of her short skirt up over her back at the very same moment that she shifts position a little on the rug in an attempt to get more comfortable.
Perception kicked all my mental recording gear into high def, time slowed to a crawl, and a smile began to drift over my face as I took in the view.
Long Long legs, leading the eye towards the lightly tanned cheeks of a beautifully shaped behind. Firm, inviting, and entirely unfettered by lace, cotton, nylon or indeed anything at all. Causing my my eyebrows to leap into action and parts of my brain to start making very urgent suggestions regarding evolutionary biology and fitness functions.
Whole real world seconds pass, the girl apparently oblivious to her situation and still blithley talking bollocks to her chum. Clearly though she's enjoying the sensation of the light breeze over her most intimate crevices. She shifts again. Back arching just a little, making the sight of her even more delectable and, alas causing a less restrained friend to reach out and lightly pat her on the bot.
Which of course causes her to glance over her shoulder with a look of surprised amusement that rapidly turns to shock, and finally to that resigned expression that conveys clearer than any words "Can't make it any worse now..."
She rolls over, carefully pulls her legs in and stands up. Stalking away from her giggling friends with theatrical hauteur. She walks towards the door of the house where she glances over towards me and I finally get a good look at her face.
Of course it's my chum's daughter. The girl I've watched growing up over the last 19 years...
Memory flickers through nearly two decades at breathtaking speed.
Images of the girl in her romper suit, in her first school uniform, in an appalling princess dress for a school play, in her next school uniform...
All now overlaid with the image of a her long long legs parted a little to show just a hint of gorgeously kissable snatch between.
I'm entirely old enough to be her father, in only slightly different circumstances I might have been her father.
I am _so_ going to Hull...
*Best Beloved is a yogurt weaving veggie, bacon sarnies are harder to come by
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 12:30, 30 replies)
Time and Time ago a somewhat older Chum of mine had children, a daughter and a son. I used to stay out of their way as far as possible because having an enthusiastic four year old run face first into your kneecaps is painful and inconvenient. But in general I was aware that there were small children about the place.
Fast forward a decade or so, I'm hanging out with a lovely lass who in addition to being mouthwateringly attractive and enthusiastic in most of the places that matter* also has the clever thinky brain and teaches maths.
Chum's daughter could do with a little extra help in the sums department so an arrangement is made and Best Beloved teaches her in exchange for pictures of the Queen.
More years pass, and a party is held at Chum's place, wine flows, cheese is eaten in quantity, and for some reason tequilla slammers are perpetrated in the increasingly loud and chaotic kitchen.
I choose this point to head outside for air.
Where I discover that the "young people" are having their own separate party in gazebo in the garden, relaxing on rugs, smoking slightly illicit rollies and talking about where they're headed for university.
A pretty girl is lying face down on a rug, one foot at the end of a long shapely leg kicking idling in the air as she expounds to a friend regarding some variety of utter nonsense.
The wind picks up just a little. A single errant zephyr with mischief on its mind scampers over the garden, carving swirling patterns into the long grass and playfully flicking the hem of her short skirt up over her back at the very same moment that she shifts position a little on the rug in an attempt to get more comfortable.
Perception kicked all my mental recording gear into high def, time slowed to a crawl, and a smile began to drift over my face as I took in the view.
Long Long legs, leading the eye towards the lightly tanned cheeks of a beautifully shaped behind. Firm, inviting, and entirely unfettered by lace, cotton, nylon or indeed anything at all. Causing my my eyebrows to leap into action and parts of my brain to start making very urgent suggestions regarding evolutionary biology and fitness functions.
Whole real world seconds pass, the girl apparently oblivious to her situation and still blithley talking bollocks to her chum. Clearly though she's enjoying the sensation of the light breeze over her most intimate crevices. She shifts again. Back arching just a little, making the sight of her even more delectable and, alas causing a less restrained friend to reach out and lightly pat her on the bot.
Which of course causes her to glance over her shoulder with a look of surprised amusement that rapidly turns to shock, and finally to that resigned expression that conveys clearer than any words "Can't make it any worse now..."
She rolls over, carefully pulls her legs in and stands up. Stalking away from her giggling friends with theatrical hauteur. She walks towards the door of the house where she glances over towards me and I finally get a good look at her face.
Of course it's my chum's daughter. The girl I've watched growing up over the last 19 years...
Memory flickers through nearly two decades at breathtaking speed.
Images of the girl in her romper suit, in her first school uniform, in an appalling princess dress for a school play, in her next school uniform...
All now overlaid with the image of a her long long legs parted a little to show just a hint of gorgeously kissable snatch between.
I'm entirely old enough to be her father, in only slightly different circumstances I might have been her father.
I am _so_ going to Hull...
*Best Beloved is a yogurt weaving veggie, bacon sarnies are harder to come by
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 12:30, 30 replies)
I went
to Rebellions Punk festival in Blackpool last year, and felt like I was one of the youngest there.
I'm 44.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 12:00, 2 replies)
to Rebellions Punk festival in Blackpool last year, and felt like I was one of the youngest there.
I'm 44.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 12:00, 2 replies)
SittingDuck reminded me
that last year I went with a mate to see Roger Daltrey perform Tommy at the Bridgewater Hall in Manchester.
One of the getting old signs was not being bothered to watch the support act, another was deciding to stock up on chocs and soft drinks before we went in.
By far the worst was talking about what a bunch of old/fat/grey/thinning/scruffy lot the other concert-goers were and then noticing our reflections in a restaurant window.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 11:57, 3 replies)
that last year I went with a mate to see Roger Daltrey perform Tommy at the Bridgewater Hall in Manchester.
One of the getting old signs was not being bothered to watch the support act, another was deciding to stock up on chocs and soft drinks before we went in.
By far the worst was talking about what a bunch of old/fat/grey/thinning/scruffy lot the other concert-goers were and then noticing our reflections in a restaurant window.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 11:57, 3 replies)
I'm going bald faster than I'm going grey
Which means I'm more likely to end up looking like like Terry Nutkins than George Peppard.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 11:52, 2 replies)
Which means I'm more likely to end up looking like like Terry Nutkins than George Peppard.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 11:52, 2 replies)
I love Hyracotheria
Best of all the animals
(Edited; grammar corrected, thanks to FengPooey)
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 11:49, 3 replies)
Best of all the animals
(Edited; grammar corrected, thanks to FengPooey)
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 11:49, 3 replies)
In 1995 I paired up with a 19 year old to go travelling.
Talking on the plane it turned out they didn't remember Live Aid as they were nine at the time. So I first felt old in my mid 20's.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 11:44, Reply)
Talking on the plane it turned out they didn't remember Live Aid as they were nine at the time. So I first felt old in my mid 20's.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 11:44, Reply)
On the flip side, however, Mrs Vagabond is older than me
And she got ID'd for booze the other day.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 11:41, 1 reply)
And she got ID'd for booze the other day.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 11:41, 1 reply)
I will be 32 next week and I don’t think that’s old at all. I get ID’d buying booze in Sainsbury on a regular basis and this is something I am very proud of (which probably shows my age).
I like myself and know myself better than I ever did in my teens and 20s. I am fatter and going ever so slightly grey which means dying my hair is no longer a girlish whim of experimentation but vain necessity. In spite of physically aging, I feel, most days, a sort of calm confidence that I really didn’t have in my 20s.
The houseshares I lived in, the friends and lovers that I thought I would know forever, the excess of the weekends.
Now, I check my bank balance daily, successfully grow veg in my garden, I clean, I switch off the radio if Justin Beiber/Katy Perry/Gaga comes on and I tut when I see next doors kids smoking on the flat roof. I have monumental hangovers that last days and I own one of those rafia bag for life bags.
But I know who I am and I am happy with that and I don’t have to try to be anything else anymore. Well, until I actually get wrinkles and an old lady hump back and then I will unleash the crotchety old boot within.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 11:39, 1 reply)
Children of the noughties
My mate is a secondary school teacher. This year the youngest of his Year 7s were born in 2000.
I now drink pints of lime and soda if it's a school night and I've already reached my 2 beer limit.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 11:26, 3 replies)
My mate is a secondary school teacher. This year the youngest of his Year 7s were born in 2000.
I now drink pints of lime and soda if it's a school night and I've already reached my 2 beer limit.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 11:26, 3 replies)
Pass the punk zimmer
In my youth I was a punk not an original from the 1st wave in 77 I'm not that old (but I listened to the music and loved it). It was bands like the Dead Kennedys, DRI, Exploited, Subhumans, Butthole Surfers and the misfits that I flung myself around mosh pits to all night long. I loved it.
Many years have passed, my hair is still spiky (I'd have killed for the modern gel back then) not thinning but greying. My stomach is rounder and I could probably fill an A cup bra. But I still listen to punk.
A while back the Dead Kennedys did a tour. Okay it was minus Jello Biafra but I still had to go with my old moshing pall Jim. At the gig we are waiting down the front for the gig to start with a bunch of 30-40 year olds all sporting faded old punk T-shirts and paunches. The DK's come on and launch into Police Truck. We all go mental. Then have a little breather to one side. Go mental again. Have a little breather. Go mental .....Ah maybe we'll just watch.
There was plenty of younger guys moshing because kick ass music never dies.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 11:22, 1 reply)
In my youth I was a punk not an original from the 1st wave in 77 I'm not that old (but I listened to the music and loved it). It was bands like the Dead Kennedys, DRI, Exploited, Subhumans, Butthole Surfers and the misfits that I flung myself around mosh pits to all night long. I loved it.
Many years have passed, my hair is still spiky (I'd have killed for the modern gel back then) not thinning but greying. My stomach is rounder and I could probably fill an A cup bra. But I still listen to punk.
A while back the Dead Kennedys did a tour. Okay it was minus Jello Biafra but I still had to go with my old moshing pall Jim. At the gig we are waiting down the front for the gig to start with a bunch of 30-40 year olds all sporting faded old punk T-shirts and paunches. The DK's come on and launch into Police Truck. We all go mental. Then have a little breather to one side. Go mental again. Have a little breather. Go mental .....Ah maybe we'll just watch.
There was plenty of younger guys moshing because kick ass music never dies.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 11:22, 1 reply)
I enjoyed the novelty of women minding their children to "Get out of the man's way", and being surprised that they were referring to me.
T'other day, however, I was in PC World, and asked a very pretty young female shop assistant about a product.
Her response was lovely - polite, smiling, slightly flirtatious, which was exactly what I was after - I was flattered, until I suddenly realised how easily it came to her, and how safe and un-self-conscious she clearly must feel around me due to the fact that she didn't consider the middle-aged man in front of her in any way sexually.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 11:11, 10 replies)
T'other day, however, I was in PC World, and asked a very pretty young female shop assistant about a product.
Her response was lovely - polite, smiling, slightly flirtatious, which was exactly what I was after - I was flattered, until I suddenly realised how easily it came to her, and how safe and un-self-conscious she clearly must feel around me due to the fact that she didn't consider the middle-aged man in front of her in any way sexually.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 11:11, 10 replies)
A bloke I know
went to pick up a prescription and was surpised when the pharmacist waved away his credit card. Thinking they only accepted cash, he started getting his money out and then the Pharmacist explained he didn't have to pay at all, with being over 60. That pissed him right off.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 10:35, Reply)
went to pick up a prescription and was surpised when the pharmacist waved away his credit card. Thinking they only accepted cash, he started getting his money out and then the Pharmacist explained he didn't have to pay at all, with being over 60. That pissed him right off.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 10:35, Reply)
world of work
Started a new job last month as another uniformed hi viz nameless wage slave in some crappy warehouse.
I spotted some pretty girlie who wasn't from some country that used to be part of the former USSR, so I sucked in the gut and turned on the cheeky charm only to discover i'm older than her parents and was getting shitfaced in some field down Staffordshire in the early 90's when she was a just a pound coin her dad later probably regretted not spending in the gents.
Sigh!!!
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 10:34, 5 replies)
Started a new job last month as another uniformed hi viz nameless wage slave in some crappy warehouse.
I spotted some pretty girlie who wasn't from some country that used to be part of the former USSR, so I sucked in the gut and turned on the cheeky charm only to discover i'm older than her parents and was getting shitfaced in some field down Staffordshire in the early 90's when she was a just a pound coin her dad later probably regretted not spending in the gents.
Sigh!!!
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 10:34, 5 replies)
I seem to be enjoying Paul Weller's recent solo output,
despite the fact that it's the sound of an old man, attempting to sound like a much younger musician from about 15 years ago.
Tragic all round, really.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 9:59, 11 replies)
despite the fact that it's the sound of an old man, attempting to sound like a much younger musician from about 15 years ago.
Tragic all round, really.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 9:59, 11 replies)
Bisexuals.
When I was young, bisexual men were accused of being gay and trying to hide it. Now bisexual women are accused of being heterosexual and trying to make themselves more interesting.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 9:30, 15 replies)
When I was young, bisexual men were accused of being gay and trying to hide it. Now bisexual women are accused of being heterosexual and trying to make themselves more interesting.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 9:30, 15 replies)
Doctor Who.
When people talk about the old series, meaning the first few series of the revival. Or 'the first Doctor', again only counting the revival.
(Reminded by Dr Skagra's post below)
PS Tom Baker was only Dr Who for seven years, but it feels like he was always Dr Who.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 9:24, 2 replies)
When people talk about the old series, meaning the first few series of the revival. Or 'the first Doctor', again only counting the revival.
(Reminded by Dr Skagra's post below)
PS Tom Baker was only Dr Who for seven years, but it feels like he was always Dr Who.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 9:24, 2 replies)
I recently noticed something that made me feel a lot older than I thought.
I remember when i was a kid in the back seat of the car and my dad driving to wherever... sometimes we would pass buildings, car parks, or shops and my dad would say something like 'me and your mum used to drink in there' or 'we had our 2nd date in there' but the pub/club had long since gone and was now just a car park. I would think my dad was really old and couldn't picture there ever being a trendy nightspot where this car park used to be.
Then it hit me. I have a daughter and was driving through our local retail park recently, when i realised that my once local trendy nightclub is now a gym. I used to spend most weekends there getting slaughtered on Metz and Hooch. Now its a Gym. No trace of its legacy to be seen anywhere.
You know you are getting old when your local pubs/bars/clubs have been demolished and are now occupied by a housing estate/soliciters/ASDA.
Brings a tear to my eye...
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 9:11, 1 reply)
The
trouser height to age ratio is an interesting one.....By the time that most men reach there 80's there usually around the nipple area. It's also the only way you can tell how old Simon Cowell is.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 9:10, Reply)
trouser height to age ratio is an interesting one.....By the time that most men reach there 80's there usually around the nipple area. It's also the only way you can tell how old Simon Cowell is.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 9:10, Reply)
21?
On the train one day was chatting to two young lasses who were about 16 years old,one asked me how old I was,20 I replied ,only to be told life ends after 21....Wtf? I thinks.
I,m 46 now ,thank fuck I can still remember that day,would be interesting to know if they still feel that way now.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 8:37, 2 replies)
On the train one day was chatting to two young lasses who were about 16 years old,one asked me how old I was,20 I replied ,only to be told life ends after 21....Wtf? I thinks.
I,m 46 now ,thank fuck I can still remember that day,would be interesting to know if they still feel that way now.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 8:37, 2 replies)
Over the past month or so,
I've decided that I'm going to give up on career development and just cruise towards retirement.
I retire in about 40 years.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 8:22, 5 replies)
I've decided that I'm going to give up on career development and just cruise towards retirement.
I retire in about 40 years.
( , Fri 8 Jun 2012, 8:22, 5 replies)
This question is now closed.