NEWS
news.bbc.co.uk/
if you're in cumbria stay indoors.

Has anyone seen the Newswipe about these killing sprees and how the media coverage actually increases the likelyhood of it happening.

So do you think the media are responsible?
(PsychoChomp, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:28, 61 replies, latest was 16 years ago)

I don't think the media are responsible for someone flipping out and shooting people, no.
But I do think that the media are at least partially responsible for how shitfucked society is.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:31, Reply)

If I was at home I'd show you a link to the video
but it was basically saying that making people infamous by flashing lights sirens and a constant update of the body count encourages suicidal people to go out in a blaze of "glory"
(PsychoChomp, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:33, Reply)

Maybe
But not every person who's made the step to actively trying to kill themselves is capable of killing others in the process. They'll always be nutters, and we ought to know about them, but I just wish that the media would stop jumping on computer games, music, violent films etc. as the sole cause for a tragedy.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:35, Reply)

Yeah, it's not like you enjoy wearing leather chaps and chewing tobacco, is it?

( Noeli overtheshoulderboulderholderthingstraplatchboobs, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:50, Reply)

Don't confuse correlation with causation ;)

( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:51, Reply)

I see your lips moving
but all I hear is 'YEEEEE-HAW!'
( Noeli overtheshoulderboulderholderthingstraplatchboobs, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:52, Reply)

I don't think the media
convinces anybody to do something the potential isn't there for in the first place. It might get them more het up or decide to take out more people, but I doubt it would trigger actual 'it's not enough to kill myself, I have to take everyone out' thoughts
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:38, Reply)

Well there's always going to be someone who is capable of that around isn't there?
I think that the media should take some responsibility for the style they report these sort of things, I'm not saying they shouldn't be reported.
(PsychoChomp, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:42, Reply)

Is that the clip
Where they get that very well renowned criminal psychologist to comment on how exactly coverage of spree/serial killings should be done to minimise the idea of going out in a blaze of glory, then show directly afterwards the way that german school shooting was covered, where they basicaly take the complete opposite of his reccomendations?
(Fredz A graveyard of hopes, a dump of ambition, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:45, Reply)

yeah that's the one.

(PsychoChomp, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:46, Reply)

On the other hand, if they don't tell the world, then people will cry out "Why wern't we warned?".
I bought an electronic ciggerette today because it was £3.50 instead of the usual £30 + £7/cartridge, it's disposable but lasts about 25 fags worth.

I got to admit, it actually tastes and feels like a fag, including it being slightly warm and biting at the back of the throat, the 'cherry' lights up too, and a white smoke comes out your mouth when you breath out. In fact, the only differance between this and a real one is that it feels heavier in the hand and you can smoke it indoors. It's actually not bad at all, I wasn't planning on quitting, but I've only had one proper fag since I opened up the packet, where as normally I would have had quite a few.

Anyway, it's one of these things: www.nicolites.co.uk , and I quite like it.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:35, Reply)

Also, while I'm going on about irelivent information.
Anyone going to Wireless? I wanna go on the friday and sunday.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:52, Reply)

Nope decent line up though

(PsychoChomp, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:53, Reply)

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7874291.stm
( Noeli overtheshoulderboulderholderthingstraplatchboobs, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:55, Reply)

If he's who I think he is, he's quite famous in iPhone Development circles.
I think Jobs flew him to California for one of the last dev conferance and used him as an example of 'how easy' it is to program for the iPhone.

I wish I had more time to dedicate to my first iPhone app, I had a Eurika moment on the weekend when I worked out how to do something I couldn't do before, which'll allow for me to do a lot more things.

I'm just finishing up this cab software today and demo'ing it later on, then going to make the iPhone/Android version over the next couple of weeks and then go live after that; yay, that's a year's worth of work coming to fruitation, and I've already got a few more buyers that want me to demo it. HUZZAH. but no time for proper iPhone/iPad development =(
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:06, Reply)

I looked into learning XCode in order to make an app
But I have no drive. Shame, I'd like to make something like a 'Choose your own Adventure' game, as a showcase for my (non-existent) video game writing skills.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:09, Reply)

I've read "Objective-C for dummys" and "iPhone Development for dummys", and between them I've worked it out.
But it was a lot easier for me as I already know quite a few languages, a "For"/"While"/"If" statement, which is integral to most programing languages is the same each time, if only written a little bit different. As I already know OOP based PHP quite well, I didn't get too confused with the Class/Function structures eaither... but if I had to start from not knowing anything, programing wise, it would be a tough job, it would be better to start with something like OOP based PHP to teach you control structures and how to deal with classes.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:14, Reply)

Thanks for the advice!
I know nothing about programming, which is why I struggled with XCode of an afternoon, then gave up ;)
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:16, Reply)

Heh, I almost gave up a few times.
It's best to learn Objective-C and _then_ x-code. The other way around is a bit like learning how to photoshop without having any concept of artistic direction.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:40, Reply)

I'm not good enough in Objective-C / X-Code to teach it to other people yet, but I am with PHP.
If you want, I can set you up some webspace and some basic PHP files that you can use to learn how to do things. In fact, I could make that a section of my blog, which would be good for the both of us. I'll start off very simply and then move onto complicated stuff later on.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:41, Reply)

And besides, you need a lisance for iPhone development which costs £59pa, where as PHP wouldn't cost anything appart from webspace, which I already have.

( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:42, Reply)

Gaz me if you're interested in the lessons thing, and that offer is open to anyone else too.

( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:43, Reply)

Thanks mate, I'll do some reading around first :)

( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:48, Reply)

Cool, once you get around the basics, it's not to hard at all.
I've got frameworks you can use to make life easier, for example, I can return a load of database entries inside one line of code, rather than without the framework would take at least 4 or 5.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:54, Reply)

Might take you up on that over the summer
Though should probably get more fluent in one of the languages I half know (c/c++, Java and ActionScript) first.

Best suggestion I can make is to start with a simple project that can be easily extended.
Since I'm a massive geek, mine is a D&D character builder (i.e. basically making databse software, simple GUI), which I'm going to extend to incorporate NPCs/monsters (more of the same), then try and do something that will let me rub battles on the comp (more rules, simple pathing, proper (2D) graphics programming) (with a final ambition to make it work on a tablet PC so it's touch sensitive). First attempt failed, but have switched the campaign to 4th edition since (from my dad's old 1st ed books), and so going to reattempt it in that over the summer.
( Tedium Alduce me to interlow myself., Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:54, Reply)

Totally agree that an expandable simple project is the way to go.
I come from a web background, so I'd suggest a blog that expands into a portfolio and all that.

One of the troubles with learning PHP to begin with though is that you need a grasp on HTML/CSS to do anything useful with it, but personally I find it the easiest 'programing' language (rather than 'formatting' language like html/css is). Plus you then really quickly want to learn Javascript to do something with a 'wow' factor to it. But to be honest, with Javascript, if someone was starting from scratch, I'd recomend they learn jQuery, you can do pretty much anything in Javscript much easier inside that framework.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:08, Reply)

Not overly fussed about web stuff yet
Have a couple of very competent codey friends that can do all that for me if needs be.

Dammit, I keep thinking of things to do with making the program, and I know that I really should write them down, but if I do I'll start actually working on it before the end of term, do no revision, and fail :(
( Tedium Alduce me to interlow myself., Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:16, Reply)

Serious question.
How do you get on with spelling in your coding?
( Noeli overtheshoulderboulderholderthingstraplatchboobs, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:16, Reply)

I find it better, personally, for example.
for($i = 0; $i < 10; $i++) { echo "The number is ".$i; }

I look at that and can see it'll go through a loop where $i = 0 while $i is less than 10 and incriment $i by 1 each time. When it does this, it'll print out the text "The number is " followed by the current number. Then $i is disgarded when the loop is finished.

To 'normal' people, I find, they can't get their head around that, or if they do, it's unnatural. To me, I read it as perfectly as someone would read english, it just makes sense. A lot of the time, you'll have to jump around, like inside that loop you might decide to something to a database, so my head would jump to what it's doing inside there and see that it's doing it 10 times.

Or another way of explaining it, most people see.

a, b, c, d, e.

But sometimes B would effect D, so I would read it a, b, d, c, e, which my dyslexic brain sees easierly.
( G/PP &#128169;&#128169;&#128169;&#128169;&#128169;&#128, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:38, Reply)

interesting to hear a review of one of those
not known anyone else who's used one
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:58, Reply)

Cunt better stay away from Barrow and Dalton

( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:42, Reply)

Innit.

( girlinthehole, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:53, Reply)

Fuck.
That's scary.
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:46, Reply)

No matter how unlikely it is to happen to you
the thought some nut job can just shoot you at random is awful.
(PsychoChomp, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:51, Reply)

To be honest, I read the article and wasn't moved in the slightest
"Oh" was all I thought.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:54, Reply)

looks like you'll be the next one going on a spree.

(PsychoChomp, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:58, Reply)

Nah, I'm too lazy
I'm rather desensitised at times, I admit.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:00, Reply)

I don't neccisarily beleive that the media has a direct influence as such
I just think the entire "oh it's because he played violent videogames" or "Media coverage of violent crimes glamourises them leading to others being encouraged to do the same" treats the audience as something of a passive sponge, and ignores the hundereds of other variables and factors that influence such an occurance. However I do think that it's naive to beleive that something as ubiquitous as "the media" however you want to define it has no influence on how people think and behave whatsoever.

As to the violent videogames/movies/music whatever influencing kids to do bad stuff, the answer is rather simple. Firstly, don't expose childeren who may have an undeveloped sense of morality (I.E one that is external to themselves not internal) to violent media. You're their parents for christ sake, and games/videos ect come with a very handy rating. Don't buy the saw films and show them to your 7 year old kid for fucks sake. Of course the other issue is with already mentaly unstable people accessing such media and somehow being negatively influenced. Of course, we COULD call for violence in media to be censored, due to the potentialy negative effects on a very small minority of individuals, or you know, we could always put some money into developing a decent mental health service that would theoreticaly help those unfortunate individuals. Oh, and while we're at it we could always have a go at combating some of the horrific levels of inner city poverty cos that's a massive fucking cause of loads of violent crimes right there.
(Fredz A graveyard of hopes, a dump of ambition, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:53, Reply)

I find it hilarious that the like of Marilyn Manson were mentioned as influencing factors
yet nobody mentioned the video for pearl Jam's Jeremy, which was all over MTV when the Columbine fellas were 11. It won the MTV award for best video when these two were about 12. It was a blueprint for going into school and teaching everyone a lesson. But no, make-up wearing nancypants Manson got all the credit.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:01, Reply)

The video for Strength Through Music
scares the fuck out of me.
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:02, Reply)

I like how the film "Elephant" had a gay element between the two shooters
That's a kick in the balls to the Columbine pricks.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:02, Reply)

To be fair
MM does have a song about going into school with a gun and teaching everyone a lesson... I do think blaming him is ridiculous though.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:04, Reply)

Me too
And Jeremy had a handy step-by-step video
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:06, Reply)

Yep. Great song though.

( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:07, Reply)

Bloody love it
I think I resent the fact that it's now called 'doing a Columbine' and not 'doing a Jeremy'.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:10, Reply)

Yeah, Columbine was the biggy
Mass-media portrayed, plus it hit all the current fears of evil music and computer games training kids to be killers.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:11, Reply)

pah
there'd have been a lot more widespread carnage if they had been taught by something like GTA. There was no car-jacking going on. Where was the helicopter gunship rampage?
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:27, Reply)

I know, rite?
Couldn't even survive a 2-3 star cop rating.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:28, Reply)

yeah
useless. he should have holed up till the cops showed up and then got into the SWAT truck to get more body armour. A quick dash for the coast, into a speedboat and caned it to his nearest safe house.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:30, Reply)

Or built a killdozer?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Heemeyer
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:08, Reply)

the media is not to blame
if the media were to not exist, this guy would probably still have done it - we just wouldn't hear about it so quickly
(bamboozled Can hear you getting fatter, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:02, Reply)

I blame the parents.
Too lenient by half.
( girlinthehole, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:03, Reply)

I blame Jeremy Kyle.

( Noeli overtheshoulderboulderholderthingstraplatchboobs, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:08, Reply)

I think the Devil made him do it.

( girlinthehole, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:09, Reply)

That's what I said.

( Noeli overtheshoulderboulderholderthingstraplatchboobs, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:13, Reply)

My auntie used that excuse when she cut off her left ponytail
Our Great Grandad had just died.
Coincidence?
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:21, Reply)

I use it all the time.
Comes in useful when I've been caught with my hand down my knickers.
( girlinthehole, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:25, Reply)

Didn;t they also say that about the Bridgend (or whatever it was) suicides?
that when it was reported, there was a string of copy-cats or inspired suicides?
I remember they weren't allowed to report the methods used in some cases.
Or maybe it's my imagination.
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:05, Reply)

If you're too thick to work out a way to kill yourself you deserve to die.

(TheColonel, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:31, Reply)

It's making sure you succeed that's the problem

( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:07, Reply)

FFS it's Whitehaven.
I think I would eventually go postal if I lived there.
It is a truly horrid place.
Nothing to do with the media this time.
(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:35, Reply)