today
I witnessed the following:

7 drivers on their mobile phones whilst driving.etc.
40-50 drivers speeding.
5 or 6 drivers undertaking.
4 or 5 'dangerous' incidents or at least what looked like the could be.
Numerous instances of not using indicators.
1 child not in a child seat, standing up in the back seat facing backwards (a heinous crime and one that should result in the parents being fucking crucified in my opinion).
2 jumping of red lights
3 or 4 brake lights not working
1 headlamp not working
2 overtaking on double white/hatching.

All in about 25 minutes on 2 motorways and 5 miles of A roads. This was probably a normal-low number of incidents day.
Number of police officers/cars seen in the vicinty of my journey during the last 5 years? Probably 1. Getting breakfast at a drive thru McDonalds.

Yes i'm a bit old and grumpy to notice all this but seriously, how many crimes must be being committed on the roads alone, over the course of a day, and countrywide? I cannot fathom.

We are a nation of criminals. I wholeheartedly support traffic/speed cameras when appropriate - and the really nasty 'averaging' ones at that - i love the fact they get people too fucking stupid to understand what that means!, traffic police, traffic calming, random stops and inspections and more frequent and higher fines.

Those who bang on about "victimisation of drivers" are people who seem to think that they can break the law if they dont like that law. I hope you all go to prison and therefore are totally unable to run me or my family down. I can fucking manage, so can you.

And just what is it about the BMW drivers? Without exception - all fucking shockingly bad drivers.
( I have run out of coke is a little sweaty, Thu 14 Feb 2008, 13:13, 18 replies)

BMW drivers
I agree. Too full of self-importance to bother indicating when coming off a roundabout. REALLY ANNOYING though i guess not really a crime!
( The Helpful Bear, Thu 14 Feb 2008, 13:26, closed)

I agree with everything but the BMW comment.
And that's only because I haven't seen enough BMWs to form an opinion of the driving.

The other day I was nearly forced off the road whilst on my moped, by a van driver who wanted me to go faster. I was doing the speed limit (note: limit, not target), on a stretch of road with several speed cameras on it.
( OneSullenBrit *air sandwiches*, Thu 14 Feb 2008, 13:26, closed)

Hear,hear!
Couldn't agree more.
(misspiggy In danger of having to get a job, Thu 14 Feb 2008, 13:28, closed)

BMW drivers? Hmmm, not as bad as
Maybe, but the fuckers who get me are the Hummer drivers. This TWAT always parks his in the same disabled spot outside the supermsrket.
It's got the full kit, tinted windows spinning hubcaps etc. And, honest to god, the reg is "BIG CUN" ; at least, it's meant to look like that, maybe some of the letters are doctored numbers?
What are the odds the owner is a guy with a little cock?
(Bear Pookie The Frankly Challenged. Halloween is coming to town., Thu 14 Feb 2008, 14:07, closed)

.
Only 1 headlamp not working...that's all the rage round here, that and really poorly adjusted headlights that blind you! With you on phones... I don't care who you are no call is that important .
(cmouse is pondering about life in other jobs, Thu 14 Feb 2008, 14:18, closed)

THIS^^^
My flatmate is very anti-speed-cameras.

He's never given me a satisfactory answer to the question "why do you care if they only catch people who are, when you get right down to it, breaking the law?"

The only bad thing about cameras is that they are unable to process context and as such are not as good as an actual human would be. This does not make them a bad idea, just not as good as the "best" option.
( Mockingbird Practitioner of SCIENCE, Thu 14 Feb 2008, 14:22, closed)

We're not really a nation of criminals, just a nation of bad drivers. Why do people undertake? Because the 'innocent' drivers have such bad lane discipline that they are quite happy to pootle along in the fast lane. Middle lane hoggers are the worst on motorways, they're oblivious to whats going on around them, making them more dangerous than someone who is doing 80.

I agree with clive Owen in 'Shoot 'em up' about BMW drivers, watch it to know what I mean!
( Moonraker isn't the droid you were looking for, Thu 14 Feb 2008, 14:39, closed)

I agree with all of this
and I must sound like an old fuddy-duddy when I say that there's no respect on the roads. Roll on personality tests for new drivers and retests every five years, that's what I say.

I'm only 21 and I sound at least 50...
(Mr._Pickles, Thu 14 Feb 2008, 14:46, closed)

Clearly I'm in a minority but...
I think you're a div. Lots of smug arseholes who get uppity about doing a perfectly safe 90mph on a clear road, who then position themselves 3 feet from my bumper in the 50mph zones, just because they can finally catch up. Speed limits are frequently bizarre, sometimes inadequate (there are plenty of self-policing national speed limit roads that work fine, noone feels compelled to drive at 60mph) and made worse because of an unofficial understanding with the police that breaking the limit is fine up to a point.

I can't see how a night time 70mph, 5 metres behind someone in the rain, which is legal (and therefore ignored by speed cameras) is worse than driving at 80mph on a quiet motorway applying common sense (which isn't legal, and risks fines and bans etc). There is dick all justification for cameras, except they're cheaper than real cops and make more money by not applying judgement to catch dangerous drivers.

With you on the rest though except undertaking. You should be in the inside lane unless you're overtaking. If there is time and space for you to be undertaken, you are the one who should be punished, because you should have pulled in to let the other person pass.

If you live in or around Oxford, I will probably overtake you soon, and you and your family will be quite unchanged by the experience. Unless you're a fucking dreadful driver who mistakes meticulous adherence to the law for driving ability. In which case your children will learn new words and gestures from me through the window...
(Mumm-ra, Thu 14 Feb 2008, 15:59, closed)

hehe you talk funny
undertaking is legal in certain circumstances. On 2 lane roads, you can be on the right hand lane - preparing for a rh turn later on, only for some arsehole to come tearing out of no where on the left and cut you up. Thats illegal undertaking.

There is no excuse for sitting in the middle lane but in heavy but slow moving traffic on a motorway, it happens, and some people progress by zipping in and out of all lanes at about 20 mph faster than the rest of the traffic often catching me unaware.

Youre right that the speed signs etc can be a mess but in the vast majority of our roads its perfectly obvious what the speed limit is. Most people ONLY HAVE A PROBLEM AFTER THEY GET CAUGHT OUT. In my experience thats all. Personally, i would love speed cameras with the film taken out or dummies - or better still, widespread use of averaging speed cameras over a distance.

Doing 90 on a motorway in the middle of the night with noone around - well mayhe theres a case but you never know whats around the corner, its dark and that 20mph equates to a lot of extra braking distance. It could be the difference between life and death. That is all.
( I have run out of coke is a little sweaty, Thu 14 Feb 2008, 17:45, closed)

Speed limits.
I'd have more respect for speed limits if they made sense. Near where I am, there seems to be a habit of extending 30 zones further and further out into the country roads. All that does is wind everyone up and make them less likely to respect the 30 limit when it's needed.
(Musuko, Thu 14 Feb 2008, 19:11, closed)

Undertaking
Not sure how I feel about undertaking. It's perfectly legal here in the US. On the one hand, it gives you recourse when you're stuck behind someone from Ohio (they're ALWAYS from Ohio!) going 55mph in the fast lane, in a 70mph zone. On the other hand, if undertaking were illegal, maybe Ohioperson would be less likely to be making a jerk of him/herself? Or, maybe I just need to stop living in a state that borders Ohio.
(chase, Thu 14 Feb 2008, 21:15, closed)

My dad does 80 on the motorway when he can.
Never hurt anyone, or got caught.
( idonthaveafunnynickname Drink-Aware? Sure. I'm aware I want another drink., Fri 15 Feb 2008, 1:12, closed)

Undecided
I can't make my mind up whether or not I like speed cameras. Sometimes I do, others I don't. I mean, if they are clearly and obviously highlighted and they are placed in spots where there is a possibility of speed causing an accident then i think it's good - eg. school areas. However, putting them on nice big straight stretches of motorway is a proper pisstake. Other countries manage to have either very high or no speed limits on such pieces of road in a safe way.


Oh, and as for speed limits in the Us - they are plain stupid. The cars are like huge feckin bricks and would withstand a helluva lot of torture, the roads are almost all straight and so enormously wide. The cars are stupidly overpowered and capable of doing very high speeds yet they can't drive over 55. I find most american drivers coming to the UK shit themself when they come across a country lane. They're not used to driving small cars at much higher speeds on small lanes that only just seem to accomodate the car's width. Are americans that shite at driving that they can't be trusted above 55mph on staight mahoosive roads?!
( MadAdamUk was last alive on, Fri 15 Feb 2008, 3:55, closed)

"Undertaking"
Undertaking, or more accurately "passing on the left" is not, and has never been, illegal. It is merely advised against. Quite frankly if there is somebody in the lane 2 or lane 3 driving at 10 mph below the speed limit I will quite happily pass on the left (especially if they're in lane 3 and I'm in lane 1). The sooner they start pulling people over for lane 2 and lane 3 hogging the better.

Not using indicators is, again, not illegal - just socipathic.

On the subject of speed cameras, they are bad for several reasons:
1) People brake hard when they see a speed camera, usually without checking mirrors or even whether they're breaking the limit - this may cause accidents or traffic delays.
2) More speed cameras mean less police cars on the road, meaning less chance of catching the cunt-puffins who do stupid things (e.g. BMW drivers, driving 3cm from your arse)
3) In certain circumstances, increasing your speed to above the speed limit is safer. I will always choose safety above a limit which was picked out of the air in the 1970s when very few cars could do 70mph.

Couldn't agree more about Beamer drivers - they seriously need to have distance sensors on the front of their car screaming out "You're being a twat" when they get too close to the car in front.
(resident deity, Sat 16 Feb 2008, 14:16, closed)

BMW drivers.
How to deal with tailgating BMW drivers.

Step one: compare the likely value of their vehicle.
Step two: calculate the level of inconvenience that would result in losing the use of your vehicle.
Step three: calculate the cost-benefit ratio between the loss of your vehicle and the write-off of a dickhead's expensive BMW.
Step four: Slam on the brakes and watch their BMW plough into your boot.
Step five: Allow the BMW driver to find out that in any rear end collision, the following driver is ALWAYS automatically in the wrong, as they should always leave enough space to cope with even the event of sudden braking.
Step six: Get your car replaced on his insurance, and enjoy knowing that his car is totalled and his insurance premiums have shot through the roof.

:D
(Musuko, Sat 16 Feb 2008, 15:34, closed)

One point
I have no major problem with Speed Cameras, but I do think that each one should have a speed limit sign on - by me we have the A449 which is a dual carriageway, but part of it is 50mph, then 70mph. Mind, I saw a bloke the other night doing abouut 70, slows to 49 on the white lines and then back to 70, so whats the point?
(kitescreech still here, Sun 17 Feb 2008, 19:16, closed)

yes
It would be nice if cameras had the speed limit printed on them. There are a few sections of road i have driven along with cameras and i have looked and found no speed limit markings at all.

As for undertaking. Whilst i don't think in itself it is classed as illegal. It is nearly always related to dangerous driving or other similar offences, so you'd still get a slap or worse.

I agree that generally it is the fault of the person in the middle lane which makes people have to undertake, but this is not true in 100% of cases. I drive various vehicles from cars to vans to larger trucks (non articulated) and often i will pull out to the middle lane to allow a vehicle (often much smaller than myself) on to the motorway. Then, rather than get on quickly and allow me to pull back in behind them, or keep their speed down to allow me to overtake fully, so i can be back in the inside lane (not holding anyone else up) they just sit there 1 or 2mph less than me. I'm then stuck there at 56 in the middle lane, going some way to holding up the motorway because of some clown who can't think ahead.

And then you get those who drive at 45 in the middle lane. I'm not allowed in the outside lane. So what do i do? sit at 45 in the inside lane and pretty much bring the entire motorway to 45mph with the exception of filtering through the outside lane, clogging the first 2 lanes up with lorries who aren't allowed in the outside lane, or undertake (with the hard shoulder as a backup plan if the prick decides that after 13 miles in the middle lane he'd like a change of scenery) where it's safe and keep the motorway running freely (instead of congested where most accidents occur)
(clayud, Mon 18 Feb 2008, 19:15, closed)