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This is a link post $361 million F-22 can not out-dogfight a €90 million Eurofighter.
F-22 takes another knock. Not only is it currently suffocating pilots, its airframe g restrictions and rate-of-turn limitations mean it can't escape from a Typhoon up close. As the beyond visual range missile technology is only 10% as effective as suggested after a study of all air-to-air combat engagements since the 1950s, the F-22 isn't all that- and that's before the EFA has finished developing thrust vectoring nozzles. Just as well Eurofighter consortium reversed the decision to ditch the Vulcan cannon and balance the airframe with a concrete dummy instead.
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 18:48, Reply)
This is a normal post also I hope this works out
www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18784866
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 18:57, Reply)
This is a normal post jeez, liquid helium as a refrigerant?
good luck making it leak-proof.
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:10, Reply)
This is a normal post I don't see any mention of liquid helium
Still, if they can keep it in MRI machines it's not an intractable problem.
 (I helped save b3ta! jonbob loves you, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 23:23, Reply)
This is a normal post They were supposed to be testing the pre-cooler a couple of months back
but I never saw the results
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:24, Reply)
This is a normal post It works

(I helped save b3ta! Lord Keeps meaning to procrastinate., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:29, Reply)
This is a normal post Got a link?

(I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:32, Reply)
This is a normal post Guess that's a 'no' then

(Spin Its a thing., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 23:21, Reply)
This is a normal post they say so. I'm not vouching for it one way or another.
hobbyspace.com/nucleus/index.php?catid=14
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 23:28, Reply)
This is a normal post Huh?
Where on earth have you got the idea that EFA will be upgraded to thrust vector? First I've heard of it.

As for losing dogfights to EFA, that's hardly the biggest embarassment it's faced. It's previously lost to an Electronics Warfare variant of the F/A 18: www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2009/02/growler-power-ea-18g-boasts-f-.html
 (I helped save b3ta! wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:00, Reply)
This is a normal post it was in the plan from the inception
I researched F22-EFA200-Su27 for an article for T3 back in the 90s, spoke to military sources, looked at the MOD presentations. It was not going to be 1st gen but was planned for. According to this article, Eurojet are trying to get budget.
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:08, Reply)
This is a normal post and what's going on here
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18919388
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:09, Reply)
This is a normal post they lost a packet on swapping back from a catapult launch/arrestor hook with no VTOL
to one that does ski jump/vertical land because the non-nuclear aircraft carriers we have couldn't provide the steam for the launch. If I recall correctly.
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:14, Reply)
This is a normal post I mean why are we buying yank planes instead of Eurofighters

(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:17, Reply)
This is a normal post BAE Systems build something like 20% of the plane
And it'll be cheaper than trying to convert the Typhoon (which we build about 25% of) to carrier use.
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:20, Reply)
This is a normal post Carriers, innit.
Our non-nuclear carriers can't generate the steam force to launch the Typhoon, the typhoon airframe wouldn't like the stresses of arresting without modification and its limited air/ground attack capability make it pointless for the role. And it's not stealthy.
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:23, Reply)
This is a normal post For the cost of a navalised Typhoon
You could probably buy two or three Rafales. That'd be a hard sell.
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:28, Reply)
This is a normal post It's nice to see Dassault finally stop
turning out new versions of the Mirage. Take Heed, Porsche. Stop making 911s.
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:35, Reply)
This is a normal post In order to get the Typhoon to fly from a carrier...
...BAe would have to fit new undercarriage, reinforced folding wings, more powerful engines and flight controls, an arrestor hook complete with strengthened mounts, not to mention the necessary strengthened structure.

The end result would be heavier, more expensive and have less range than a carrier plane designed as such from the outset like an F-18 or Rafale. The Royal Navy has looked at buying Rafales, which could well be an option if the US decide to can the STOVL version of the F-35.

/nerd
 (Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Mon 30 Jul 2012, 21:03, Reply)
This is a normal post I forgot about the folding wings requirement.
well done sir.
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 21:25, Reply)
This is a normal post The powerplant of the QE carriers....
...is four gas turbine engines, with what is in effect a dynamo to supply electric power to the engines directly instead of the old fashioned system of boilers and turbines, which used to supply the steam needed for catapults. Moreover, the torque of a steam catapult cannot be adjusted, so they cannot launch very light UAVs, hence the need for modern carriers to be fitted with a sci-fi railgun. BAe managed to accidentally "inflate" the cost of adapting the QE carrier for a railgun, just in case the MoD decided that the F-35 is too expensive to procure and went down the route of buying F-18s or Rafales instead. Remember that BAe and Rolls Royce have a lot at stake if the F-35 turns out to be a massive white elephant.

/cynic.
 (Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Mon 30 Jul 2012, 21:07, Reply)
This is a normal post that reminds me of the time when Jaguar were taken over by Ford
in the design of the next XJ the engine bay monocoque was deliberately made too narrow for Ford to buy in Rover 60 degree V8s (and becoming common) so their engine choice became a home-designed 90-degree vee after the straight-sixers.
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 21:37, Reply)
This is a normal post I read this story too...
...there are parallels with Triumph designing their own V8 for the Stag, rather than installing Rover V8s too.
 (Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Mon 30 Jul 2012, 22:14, Reply)
This is a normal post two straight fours on a common crank
the term 'notoriously weak' is often used, which is a shame. Then again, did not Daimler refer to their V12s as a 'Double 6'?
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 22:20, Reply)
This is a normal post Two straight fours on a common crank...
...pretty much sums up the Audi V8's origins - basically two Golf GTi 16v units spliced together. It's not an unusual arrangement.
 (Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Mon 30 Jul 2012, 22:37, Reply)
This is a normal post I understand there are some problems with compression
because at any one time you have a single combustion chamber trying to pressurise two other cylinders at various states of compression. But heck, I'm Diagnostics, that's for the people in Calibration or base engine design.
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 23:10, Reply)
This is a normal post Its being proposed as an in-service upgrade
But given the state of defence spending at the moment I wouldn't bet on it getting past the planning stage.
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:14, Reply)
This is a normal post You wrote for T3?
Coolness.
 (I helped save b3ta! wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 21:07, Reply)
This is a normal post '96 ish for a couple of years
Not staff, freelance.

www.spencerfreelance.co.uk/Shinkansen.htm#Japanese%20Bullet%20Trains
www.spencerfreelance.co.uk/Weather.htm#Weather%20Prediction#
www.spencerfreelance.co.uk/Space.htm#Space%20Propulsion

I don't have the originals anymore but they're in there, somewhere between issue 19 and 30. They're currently on about 205.
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 22:01, Reply)
This is a normal post hah hah!
The one they call 'The growler' :-)
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:12, Reply)
This is a normal post Aww shucks, I was going to buy one :-(

(pissflaps. FSPW, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:00, Reply)
This is a normal post does that matter?
the f-22 will probably never engage in close air to air combat anyway. It still has capabilities that the Typhoon doesn't - like stealth.
 (augsav forgot about B3ta, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:08, Reply)
This is a normal post We'll just Bob Marley it.
We be jamming.
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:16, Reply)
This is a normal post it's all important stuff to know
if the US ever goes to war with Europe
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:18, Reply)
This is a normal post it is important if the US decide to attack some countries like Saudi
who we have sold them to. And that's just a comparison, what about Mig 35s? EDIT thank you andy, Sukhoi 35.
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:25, Reply)
This is a normal post The F-22 will never face off against a Typhoon
However put it close up against the latest Sukhois like the Su-35 and it'll get murdered.

I'd not read too much into that report about BVR missiles either. Technology is always improving and inferring performance of the latest missiles from stats dating back to the 50's is a bit disingenuous.
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:19, Reply)
This is a normal post ... so long as they never fall out with Saudi.
and I can't see that happening.
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:29, Reply)
This is a normal post hmm there seems to be a pattern here.
Afghanistan - Russian planes
Iraq - Russian planes
Libya - Russian planes
Syria? Russian planes
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:48, Reply)
This is a normal post mainly Fencers, Fishbeds, Floggers.
Less of the Flankers and Fulcrums and Foxbats that could be a potential problem.
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:59, Reply)
This is a normal post what do you mean "problem"?
the problem as I see it, the US decides who to attack based on where they get their gear.

Iran - Russian/Chinese arms. They're next on the list.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 20:03, Reply)
This is a normal post Migs 25 and 29 are not to be taken lightly, nor the Su27
Dassault have sold plenty of fighters to the Arab nations though. Friendly and unfriendly.
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 20:08, Reply)
This is a normal post I'm saving up for a MiG 25 myself

(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 20:11, Reply)
This is a normal post for a while in the 2000s, it was possible to pay £30,000 for a go in the back of one
as it was the only way for the Russian air force to be able to pay for their pilots to be able to maintain flying hours.
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 20:22, Reply)
This is a normal post Until very recently you could pay £5k
For a trip in a BAe Lightning - the proper one, not the new fangled plastic F-35.
 (Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Mon 30 Jul 2012, 21:33, Reply)
This is a normal post some forrin air force?
I was aware of a project to keep one going at Bruntingthorpe but I thought all you got there was a taxi as it didn't have an airworthiness certificate?
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 22:03, Reply)
This is a normal post Sort of...Classic Jets in Cape Town
The Lightnings were ex-RAF and maintained and flown by ex-RAF folk. All went well until a 2 seater Lightning (ZU-BEX) well out of the sky at an air show a while back and the whole operation was grounded.
 (Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Mon 30 Jul 2012, 22:09, Reply)
This is a normal post Awww :-(
My uncle flew Vulcans (too tall for fighters, an ejection would have cleaved his kneecaps off on the cockpit frame), his mate did Lightnings and Phantoms, and then got a secondment to the USAF where he got to learn the F-15. He said the F-4 was a handful but at least if you ended up in a flat spin you could deploy the landing drag chute which pulled you back into line, then automatically snapped off as you throttled away from the situation. With shit in your pants, presumably.
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 22:17, Reply)
This is a normal post Lightnings and F-15s are quite similar in terms of performance so I hear
Mike Hale has flown both and makes some interesting comparisons. The Lightning was actually very agile too.

My old chap designed bits of Lightnings, Victors, Buccaneers and stuff. He's got a lot of Lightning related stories.
 (Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Mon 30 Jul 2012, 22:30, Reply)
This is a normal post Dude!
:-)
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 22:57, Reply)
This is a normal post As I understand it
They were pretty matched in agility, speed and time-to-height, but the F15 had far greater endurance and a better payload.
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 23:53, Reply)
This is a normal post Sounds like that song that bearded rapper did.
The Kinks , just a band etc
 (I helped save b3ta! jakedamusss I understand, and dont care., Tue 31 Jul 2012, 1:26, Reply)
This is a normal post Isn't the F-22 being replaced by the F-35?

(I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:23, Reply)
This is a normal post No
The F-22 replaces the F-15.
The F-35 replaces the F-16 and F-18.
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:25, Reply)
This is a normal post Ah, cool

(I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:37, Reply)
This is a normal post :-(
I loved the F16 and F15 when i were a nipper.
 (I helped save b3ta! taters Bah weep grahnah weep ninibong, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:54, Reply)
This is a normal post I do like an F-16
www.flickr.com/photos/xsgerry/977387061/in/set-72157601148507968
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 20:02, Reply)
This is a normal post I liked that bit in jewel of the nile where michael douglas drove an F16 round a market and fucked shit up

(I helped save b3ta! taters Bah weep grahnah weep ninibong, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 20:11, Reply)
This is a normal post Air Superiority role is F22
carrier multirole is for the F35

personally, just give me an old tough slow A-10 and drill holes through the landscape with the gun :-)
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:27, Reply)
This is a normal post Hahaha
Yes, quite
 (I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:38, Reply)
This is a normal post big hands up for the wart hog

(I helped save b3ta! fluffybunnykiller Is feasting on the clitoris of life, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:53, Reply)
This is a normal post Yessss
4200 2 pound projectiles a minute :-0
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 20:04, Reply)
This is a normal post practically a massive gun with wings and two big engines attached
delightfully ugly
 (augsav forgot about B3ta, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 20:15, Reply)
This is a normal post I like the GEC Lightning
Two massive engines, a couple of wings from a paper plane and a bubble on the top for the little pilot guy to sit in.
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 20:24, Reply)
This is a normal post GEC? Heathen!
English Electric.
 (I helped save b3ta! wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 20:47, Reply)
This is a normal post I just think
'Electric Lightning' is a bit of an odd designation :-)
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 20:50, Reply)
This is a normal post It'll be EDF now anyway.

(I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 20:53, Reply)
This is a normal post the important question is
how good is it for murdering civilians on the ground?
 (I helped save b3ta! Mousing, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 19:52, Reply)
This is a normal post
murdering civilians killing zombies.
 (I helped save b3ta! JamTallons, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 20:45, Reply)
This is a normal post On the other hand TIE Fighters are propelled by Twin Ion Engines.

(I helped save b3ta! Pig Bodine., Mon 30 Jul 2012, 20:01, Reply)
This is a normal post Mine wasn't
Mine was propelled by me picking it up and swooping it around the room going NEEEEEOOOOOOWWWW!!! PEW!!! PEW!!!
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 20:05, Reply)
This is a normal post Cold War Plane
period

But hey, contractors
 (I helped save b3ta! The Scrunt Wants a Dozen Pints, Mon 30 Jul 2012, 21:22, Reply)
This is a normal post Can we have Harriers back?
I just like the notion that they were designed to operate out of petrol stations if need be.
 (I helped save b3ta! Extinct Jesus Dossier "...I think it counteracts Hitler's magic...", Tue 31 Jul 2012, 0:02, Reply)
This is a normal post Imagine the nectar points :-)
that, and lightly prepared Norwegian spruce stands, as per the 1980s recruitment images.
 (I helped save b3ta! Rotating Wobbly Hat That's not a banana. THIS is a banana., Tue 31 Jul 2012, 1:00, Reply)