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This is a question Changing Your Mind

monkeon writes, "People tend to seek things that back up already held beliefs, but what books, films, or real-life events have actually changed the way you think about a subject?"

(, Thu 2 Apr 2015, 14:27)
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I have spent the majority of my 47 years being inculcated (by myself as well as others) in one particular form of religiosity, that of the 'religion' of Christianity. This gradually became for me, more insular, hateful and spiteful. In the last 6 months I became aware of the true meaning of 'Grace' in Christianity and I 'got it'. I'm now a whole lot happier and no longer feel the need to explain myself to anyone else or defend the indefensible hate that religion seems to have. In truth, its a bit more complicated than that, but as I'm now happy, I don't feel the need to say much more. No doubt I'll feel the ire of the atheist/humanist/secular/anti-religion brigade but I can even feel warm toward them too. Philip Yancey has a lot to answer for in this regard. His book : Whats so amazing about grace, marked a real turning point for me.

Whats slightly more interesting is that which led me to even bother thinking why I truly held onto defective beliefs in the first place. Thats quite simple: three years ago, someone committed a serious violent act against my wife and she 'lost her contact with God', amongst other things. Its still gone but it forced me to properly consider what I believed in.
(, Fri 3 Apr 2015, 11:52, closed)
Secularism doesn't mean being anti-religion.
It simply means that religion has no place in public policy. To distance yourself from secularism is to show yourself to be either a nitwit, or a theocrat, or some combination of the two.
(, Fri 3 Apr 2015, 13:15, closed)
I'm disappointed that you think
that atheists et al would be annoyed by your post. If you're happy and you know it clap your hands, we'll be over there looking at the stars, or perhaps at a beetle climbing along a twig.

It may surprise you, but we feel warmth towards our fellow man/woman too. If you don't push your own personal Jesus down our throats, we'll all get along fine.
(, Fri 3 Apr 2015, 19:53, closed)
^This guy gets it.^

(, Fri 3 Apr 2015, 20:15, closed)
funny that
because I agree - Its my belief that if you have to push your thoughts on another then its likely that what you're trying to force upon them isn't worth it. Sad thing is, I hear even less humanity from atheist/humanists than I do from fellow Christians and in both cases I don't like it - it isn't attractive. In this regard, Fred Phelps and Christopher Hitchens belong in the same box. The problem comes because, by daring to try and be counter-cultural, the only response by the secular mob is to try and shout so loud that they drown out any other voice. For the record, I do not 'clap my hands', that would be embarassing. Neither am I a YEcreationist - I'm not naiive.
(, Fri 3 Apr 2015, 20:49, closed)
Which secular mob is this?
I mean, notwithstanding that you don't know what secularism is, could you elaborate a bit more on this mob and what it does?
(, Sat 4 Apr 2015, 8:57, closed)
I was wondering the same thing. He probably means obsessive atheists, like Richard Darkins. Not many of those aroound, really.

(, Sat 4 Apr 2015, 10:25, closed)
And they don't really mob anyone.
Campainging against religious privilege isn't the same as trying to shut people up.

I think that gearanach is suffering from a bit of fatwa-envy, what say?
(, Sat 4 Apr 2015, 13:04, closed)
An atheist thinks society & humanity would be better off if we act decently to each other, look after the planet and generally not be cunts. He acts as such.

A Christian acts in a similar manner not because he has come to the innate thinking that it is a 'good' way to behave, but because an invisible super-being will punish him if he doesn't.

Which is the better person?
(, Sat 4 Apr 2015, 11:41, closed)
The one who buys me a pint?

(, Sat 4 Apr 2015, 16:04, closed)
you're welcome. ALthough, if asked for money by a homeless person I am quite likely to go and buy them something to eat. Its amazing the conversations that one starts.
(, Sat 4 Apr 2015, 17:36, closed)
"How am I supposed to buy smack with a fucking pasty?"
Is how I assume these conversations normally start.
(, Sat 4 Apr 2015, 18:14, closed)
It's a well known fact that all homeless people are smackheads.

(, Sat 4 Apr 2015, 23:04, closed)
right there...
That bit about punishment - thats the bit which is all wrong. It is not about punishment - thats all a bit Old Testament and Jesus came to do away with 'the law'. I'm really not a Jew and still not a creationist. And whats more... I don't have to act in a particular way to get a 'reward', I merely have to be thankful for that which I already have. This is very misunderstood by most Christians let alone any atheists. It really is a lot less complicated than some would have you believe. If someone could just explain why a number of militant atheists see the need to be downright nasty then that would be great. However I'm still not going to apologise for the nasty Christians as I don't much like them either.
(, Sat 4 Apr 2015, 16:06, closed)
Once again, these "militant atheists" are a figment of your imagination.
What's your opinion of the doctrine of the Elect, by the way? Or is yours the version of Christianity that doesn't require knowing much about Christianity?
(, Sat 4 Apr 2015, 17:10, closed)
tricky one - right there with 'predestination'. Largely due to a Paul-ine construct in my theology which is personally gospel based rather than OT. Its the only place to start.
(, Sat 4 Apr 2015, 17:32, closed)

Oh, sod it. I really can't be arsed with this, and would only get myself in trouble, since I'm almost as theologically incompetent as you.
(, Sat 4 Apr 2015, 19:42, closed)
^^^Didn't realize that
other people had top secret access to Google, too.
(, Sun 5 Apr 2015, 23:13, closed)
That would be an ecumenical matter

(, Mon 6 Apr 2015, 8:27, closed)
"If someone could just explain why a number of militant atheists see the need to be downright nasty"
So, they make comments on the internet and write books laughing at superstition.

As opposed to (just off the top of my head) The crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, The persecution of the Catholics, Protestants, Huegenots, Orthodox, Amish, Mormons, Presbyterians or whichever flavour of Christianity is wrong at that moment in time.

This is without up-to-date Christian believers in caves in the US prepping for Doomsday (I'm looking at you Gunmetal!) who may occasionally decide to blow up a government building or two.

This however pales into insignificance next to the misery imposed on children by religious belief. Look at the Catholic Church. OK, every walk of life has it's kiddie fiddlers, but to move them around to cover up their crimes? The beatings, the children's homes, the having people locked up as insane for premarital sex, the Irish Laundries, and generally alienating people within their own society for any kind of deviation from the norm (homosexuality being the most obvious)

Oh, and while we are on it, you know those muslim women who dress head to toe in black, cover their heads with a scarf and are mocked for being extremely devout? At least they get married, unlike nuns who dress exactly the same and believe they are actually married to Jesus.

Religion is not a bunch of harmless, superstitious, Vicar of Dibley types; it is an evil cancer that should be stamped out hard wherever it rears its vicious, deluded, holier-than-though head.

TL;DR: Fuck right off. Then forgive me. Happy Easter.
(, Sun 5 Apr 2015, 10:53, closed)
misunderstanding forgiveness
and how it works would be one thing. The vicious ad-hominen attack is quit another. Good luck with your short life, I sincerely hope its better than you imagine it to be.
(, Sun 5 Apr 2015, 14:04, closed)
The right to swing your arm stops where someone else's nose begins.

(, Fri 3 Apr 2015, 20:19, closed)

(, Mon 6 Apr 2015, 0:04, closed)
I liked "Pull up to the bumper"

(, Fri 3 Apr 2015, 22:26, closed)
Of all the times you could bring up Jesus,
I hardly think that Easter weekend is appropriate.
(, Fri 3 Apr 2015, 23:17, closed)
I just started reading about moveable feasts and it made me think of the opposite, an enormous ice cream lolly

(, Sat 4 Apr 2015, 13:18, closed)
sorry about that!
However I am wondering about my ability to 'bring up' Jesus. Does that not make me God (a fantasy which does not need feeding). Much as I may possess resurrection abilities, they don't seem that much in evidence.
(, Sat 4 Apr 2015, 16:08, closed)
Hold on, I've seen Ghostbusters.
You're about to summon Mr. Stay Puft, right?
(, Sat 4 Apr 2015, 19:47, closed)
Replies to win, etc.

(, Sat 4 Apr 2015, 20:48, closed)
I'm not in the least bit religious and don't subscribe to many Christian beliefs
but one thing I do know is that if it weren't for the grace of God I wouldn't be here, I'd be long since dead.

The turning point in my life was when I decided to quit playing God. My selfishness was killing me and I realised that if I wanted to live a contented life then I needed to be rid of it. For me, cultivating the concept of a loving God makes that possible.

Peace and Love to you and yours.
(, Sat 4 Apr 2015, 17:07, closed)
Read the bible again, carefully.
It is the word of your god Jehova.
If you pick and choose from it then admit you're just pathetic and need a mental crutch and if you believe it all and still worship Jehova I hope you die the worst possible long death.
Really, you prick, just read the hate-filled shit that is "The Holy Bible". Then defend torture and killing due to sexuality, race or sex. Go on, do it, you fucking waste of oxygen.
(, Sat 4 Apr 2015, 17:23, closed)
hmm 'hate filled shit'
don't try and describe yourself too harshly my friend
(, Sat 4 Apr 2015, 17:27, closed)
Nice comeback.
Defend the bible, go on, you piece of shit. Why should women who cheat be stoned to death? Why should those who take the name of Jehova in vain be killed? Why ought we to kill gay men?
Give some answers or admit to being a scared little kid who wnats big daddy Jehova to make it all go away.
By the way, yes, I am angry I'm angry because cunts like you promote torture and violence throughout the world.
Read the fucking bible again, you piece of shit.
(, Sat 4 Apr 2015, 17:38, closed)
so far your entire philosophy
appears to be to insult me in a rather pointed fashion. I'm kind of glad you exist if only that it gives me a sense of self-righteous affirmation.
(, Sun 5 Apr 2015, 14:00, closed)
Well, I always tend to insult those who condone rape and genecide.
Perhaps it's just me but I find people who think death is a fitting punishment for sexual orientation should be treated with contempt.
Again, if you can give a cogent argument as to why you condone such things then feel free.
(, Sun 5 Apr 2015, 14:28, closed)
I'm pretty sure
I said that I wasn't going to defend the indefensible and in particular I'm not going to defend anything to do with any anti-homosexual leanings. In fact I was waiting for this moment.

If you can point out exactly where it is that Jesus specifically states that homosexuals are to be put to the death, then please do so. Meanwhile, much to your inevitable disgust, I shan't hold my breath.
(, Sun 5 Apr 2015, 14:44, closed)
Oh, so it must be Jesus who said it?
Your religion is not based upon "The New Testament" but on it all. If you're just talking about Jesus then, hell, murder may not be off the cards.
(, Wed 8 Apr 2015, 18:17, closed)
For a troll
you're not bad but not that good at it either.
(, Wed 8 Apr 2015, 19:33, closed)
I know Grace
Tidy for her age, and Welsh Pete reckons she does anal if you slip her a line first
(, Sun 5 Apr 2015, 8:58, closed)
Are you one of the pedophiles on here?
I get confused about who is and who isn't, and wanted to know if I made a joke about the line "tidy for her age", would everyone LOL or not?
(, Sun 5 Apr 2015, 23:16, closed)
Nah, I was implying that "Grace" is probably in her late 30s or early 40s maybe
but still maintains an allure for a man in his 20s
(, Tue 7 Apr 2015, 13:18, closed)

(, Sun 5 Apr 2015, 9:22, closed)
It's back now.
As if by magic...
(, Sun 5 Apr 2015, 12:46, closed)
Dunno what you mean, I was referring to all the stuff after 'hate filled shit'

(, Sun 5 Apr 2015, 13:00, closed)
Now the bit that where someone mentioned some Rob guy and I asked why it's all empty when I click "more", is gone.
What's that about?
(, Mon 6 Apr 2015, 0:22, closed)
I deleted nothng

(, Sun 5 Apr 2015, 14:05, closed)

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