George Galloway comes to Assanges defence
Apparently fucking a woman whilst she sleeps is just bad manners.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 17:28,
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I didn't realise
Mr Inman's looky-likey had a sleep fetish.
Not surprised though.
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JeremyBeadlesHands, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 17:41,
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Can't they just try him "in absentia"?
By "him" I mean Assange. Galloway just needs yoghurts thrown at him until he shuts up.
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Extinct Jesus Dossier "...I think it counteracts Hitler's magic...", Mon 20 Aug 2012, 17:51,
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America can't extradite him from Sweden In Absentia.
While I'm not keen on Assange generally, it really does come across as if someone's pulling a lot of strings to get to him, and not particularly subtly either (Which screams USA). I'm guessing he's got someone or some organization powerful terrified of what info Wikileaks has, and they want to Waterboard it out of him before they execute him.
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Kerrisis There's someone in my head, but it's not me., Mon 20 Aug 2012, 17:59,
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To extradite him from sweden they'd need permission from us and the swedes
That's a lot more protection than what you would get in central America.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 18:32,
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?
He's not got asylum form any country in Central America.
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Invisible Wizard - 12th Level Errorer, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 19:18,
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Ok south America
Tell you what, if the geography police come knocking I won't do a runner to the nearest embassy.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 19:21,
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I may have this wrong,
but I heard he is just "wanted for questioning" in Sweden, so not necessarily even a full trial to answer. It is simply Sweden en route to USA.
(, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 19:49, Reply)
Why not just go to Sweden then? He could always still run into the Ecuadorian embassy there if he wants?
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JamTallons, Tue 21 Aug 2012, 0:08,
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Hmmm...
I regularly wake the missus up with the old pork sword alarm. Does that make me a rapist too?
(, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 17:54, Reply)
From what I've heard of married life
It sounds like it makes you a "husband".
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Extinct Jesus Dossier "...I think it counteracts Hitler's magic...", Mon 20 Aug 2012, 18:36,
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Couple of times I've woken up from a saucy dream "mid act"
So not sure what that makes me, either. There were no complaints, mind, so it's not like "We were both asleep, your honour" has had to be tested in court.
(, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 19:47, Reply)
Most people have done similar, they're just not brave enough to admit it
Shagging whilst pissed, shagging whilst dreaming, waking up not knowing what the Hell you've done due to drugs / alcohol, busting a condom yet carrying on regardless, yada yada. We're all rapists then. The whole thing's bullshit but nobody dare speak the truth in case they offend somebody.
(, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 20:02, Reply)
Most people really?
Putting aside the shagging whilst pissed and stoned because that's not what he's accused of.
I've never had a second pop and any woman whilst they were out of it.
Let alone one i've just met.
I bust a condom I stop and put a new one on.
Wearing it for a reason.
Maybe she doesn't want some guys spunk up her?
So I for one am not a rapist.
If this was just some tourist that overstepped the bounds whilst on holiday he wouldn't get any support.
But because he's Saint bloody Julian it's all ok.
He didn't do it and if he did those women are just getting upset over nothing.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 20:14,
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Hang on, hang on...
We don't know what happened and maybe never will. We don't know whether she was asleep and he tiptoed in and thought "I'll have another crack at that", rubbed his hands together in glee and jumped on or whether they both woke up in the throes of passion which she later regretted. I won't defend the chap, whoever he is, but I'm not going to polish my pitchfork until I've seen some evidence. Till then it is a few interesting articles and (mostly) opinion pieces.
(, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 20:36, Reply)
He should really
face up to a court case and clear his name or face the charges I feel.
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Herb Alpert's Taxi Driver I have very beautiful lips, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 20:40,
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Oh, I agree.
There's got to be some way of this happening.
Why can't he stand trial for it over here? Rape is rape, after all, and we would try him the same and lock him up the same if guilty.
(, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 20:45, Reply)
Though if what I said above about just being wanted for questioning is true,
there wouldn't be a trial about it anyway. The girls would disappear after the questioning, as would Assange.
(, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 20:46, Reply)
Because the victims were Swedish
and it took place in Sweden. They have every right to hold any trial there.
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evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 21:08,
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^this
No country in the EU can deport someone to another country where they could potentially face the death penalty anyway, so he's not going to find himself on a plane to the United States
In the meantime, two women have made legal accusations of sexual misconduct by him, on them, that have every right to be addressed by a court of law in the country where it occurred.
He is now hiding behind conspiracy theories to not take his sexual conduct on the chin and deal with it, and either clear his name, or be exposed for sexual misconduct. You never know, he might actually be guilty of rape or one of the charges, it's not entirely beyond the bounds of possibility.
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Jahled Three shades of black, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 21:28,
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More than this
The longer he stays in hiding and the more extreme the lengths he goes to to avoid a trial make me more suspicious that he's actually concerned there's a case to answer.
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evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 21:49,
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And this is how i'm now viewing what the guy's up to
Accusations of rape or sexual misconduct won't have been levelled lightly for a guy in his obvious predicament; especially not by former fans of what he's been doing. If they were two plants all along from the beginning, a court of law somewhere like Sweden would probably be one the best places on earth to expose this. He has sat himself in the middle of the cauldron, shit like this was always on the cards.
Even if this has all been not much more than a case of shagging the fans, and the disgruntled consequence when his attention moved on, these are still extremely serious accusations I personally would want to have off my back at the earliest opportunity.
Ultimately, he has himself to blame for all this; wikileaks is an extremely clumsy and irresponsible way of exposing stolen information as it does. And not everything it exposes, in the manor it does, is actually beneficial to wider public knowledge.
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Jahled Three shades of black, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 22:09,
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there has now been two confirmations that their has been a secret arrest inditement made out for him.
the leaked Stratfor emails, and recently an Australian intelligence confirmation www.theage.com.au/national/us-in-pursuit-of-assange-cables-reveal-20120817-24e8u.html . Given that the Swedish Government has refused to confirm that they won't extradite him, something they could easily do in a simple statement, his fears of extradition to the US seem quite reasonable.
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 22:11,
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Regardless of any of that
if a woman feels violated then she is well within her rights to complain to the authorities.
'most people have done similar' is no excuse, brave enough to admit it or not.
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Herb Alpert's Taxi Driver I have very beautiful lips, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 20:32,
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Sexist!
I've woke up some mornings and felt extremely violated after seeing what's sleeping next to me...
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Fadgebadger Sweaty sumo wanks for everyone!, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 20:37,
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You might want to leave your
MASSIVE DRUGS goggles at home then.
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Herb Alpert's Taxi Driver I have very beautiful lips, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 20:38,
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You fancy Gail from Corrie?
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Herb Alpert's Taxi Driver I have very beautiful lips, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 20:52,
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Is she the one who looks like a turtle?
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Fadgebadger Sweaty sumo wanks for everyone!, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 20:55,
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Turtle/hamster cross
a Turtster. That one.
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Herb Alpert's Taxi Driver I have very beautiful lips, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 20:58,
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Hell yeah
Pass the kleenex
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Fadgebadger Sweaty sumo wanks for everyone!, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 21:00,
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Pfft
What do you think I'm made of money?
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Fadgebadger Sweaty sumo wanks for everyone!, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 20:51,
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It's hard to find the extra cash isn't it
when you are paying by the hour
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Herb Alpert's Taxi Driver I have very beautiful lips, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 20:52,
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I think my wallets been stolen...
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Fadgebadger Sweaty sumo wanks for everyone!, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 21:02,
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Hi Herb,
the problem comes from legislating criminal behaviour around verbal consent when in a majority of cases of real human behaviour verbal consent is never given. Should people change their behaviour to comply with the law. The uk imposes an extra level that the accused "does not reasonably believe" that consent has been given for it to be rape. Given that they already had had consensual sex, is it unreasonable that Assange might have expected a second time to be consensual. And as for "feeling violated", women can also have these feeling when they regret sleeping with someone (in the assange case the two women did nothing until they found out he'd slept with both of them). Is this alone enough to condem someone. the other accuser (the condom one, not the sleeping one) was tweeting three hours later what a great party she was at.
Assange aside, (im not boasting, just giving examples), I've met a woman at a disco in Denmark, gone home with her and slept together, without saying a single word until the morning (in may ways it was the perfect one-night-stand). Why should any government legislate so we can't do this without getting verbal consent, or risk rape convictions. It changing human behaviour to suit the law, rather than having cleverer laws, and it takes the fun and spontanaity out it. Ive been married 10 years now, and I've always prefered sex where we don't negotiate it like a business meeting.
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 22:28,
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Hey!
I have done the same. I see no problem in one night stands, for me. And yes, the fact we are going to have sex is implied.
Not now as I have a lovely fella of course.
I do get what you say about the 'she said/didnt say' thing.
But, yet again, If you are going to indulge in that behaviour, then there may just be a time when someone is going to say they didn't feel entirely comfortable with what happened. Going into the bedroom with a stranger is risky in countless ways.
He does have charges to answer to in a court of law. The women no matter what their motivations have said how they feel and he should make an attempt to clear his name.
I have friends who have been all OK about their encounters, then as reality hits, they feel awful. Smokescreen defenses going up maybe?
I dunno.
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Herb Alpert's Taxi Driver I have very beautiful lips, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 23:00,
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Well, I wasn't going to go _that_ far...
both occasions were with girlfriends, and we were both sober. Just Saturday morning friskiness, really.
(, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 20:42, Reply)
Slight threadjack...
A mate of mine, who was cheating on his current girlfriend, was caught out via some text messaging which went to the wrong participant. Being the quick minded fellow he was, his excuse was that he must have been "sleep texting"
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Fadgebadger Sweaty sumo wanks for everyone!, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 20:45,
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Yes she did
For a few months
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Fadgebadger Sweaty sumo wanks for everyone!, Tue 21 Aug 2012, 9:18,
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He should have a chat with that US Republican Todd Akin who sits on the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology
And thinks, regarding abortions for rape victims:
"It seems to me, from what I understand from doctors, that is really rare.
If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.
But let's assume that maybe that didn't work or something: I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be of the rapist, and not attacking the child."
He's maniacally pro life but I don't understand why he's okay with the woman repressing pregnancy and killing the unborn rape baby. He should be demanding she gets the death penalty.
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Professor Fnord Regius Professor of B3ta Chronology, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 17:56,
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Romney thinks making all abortions illegal would be "terrific"
www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/mitt-romney-said-in-2007-he-would-be-delighted-t
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HappyToast Groat froth, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 18:28,
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Romney will say anything his audience wants to hear to gain power,
and then say the exact opposite a few years down the line for the same reasons.
He's a very clever and very dangerous man.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 23:00,
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i am scared to say
you are 100% right on this one.
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miss fortunate last posted ages ago, Tue 21 Aug 2012, 0:17,
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fucking hell
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h3donist tryin' to play me out as if my name is Sega.., Mon 20 Aug 2012, 18:40,
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"not everybody needs to be asked prior to each insertion"
WHAT? I despair.
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Herb Alpert's Taxi Driver I have very beautiful lips, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 19:15,
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FFS!
I will actually punch this cunt, if I ever have the displeasure of meeting him.
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war3n3xt < I'm with stupid, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 19:47,
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i think if you did a poll of men asking how many obtained verbal consent before fucking it would be very low, probably in single digits
Galloway has a point, whatever you think about the fucker or his politics. In reality, sex is often initiated and agreed to without any verbal discusion. It starts with kissing, then fondling, then stripping off.
As much as anti-sexual violence campaigners would wish it otherwise, generally asking "May I fuck you?" or "Do you give your informed consent to have sexual relations with me?" is the exception rather than the norm of human sexual interaction.
To call intiating sex without verbal consent (allegedly) while in bed together after already having mutually consensual sex as rape does cheapen the term, as it equates people who don't ask for permission for each time they do it under the impression that it's consensual (ie, the majority of sexual encounters) with people who use physical violence or intimidation for sex.
This is just speaking in general terms. In the assange case there are a lot of other factors (one of the accusers tweeting a few hours after the rape about what a cool party she was at), the political nature of the prosecution (a known anti-rape campaigner with something to gain (in sweden the prosecutors are political appointments) who convinced the two women to change there accusation from wanting Assange to have an STI test to accusing him of rape), the leaking to the press of assange details on the prosecutors blog, the texts from the accusers saying they want to get paid (this is alleged, as the prosecution is refusing to release them), their refusal for him to be questioned of give pre-trial appearance by video link, and other factors point towards a bullshit prosecution without having to delve into consipiricy theories
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 21:50,
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You are right in the sense
that verbal 'ok, we can have sex now' very rarely happens. However, is that a defense? 'She didn't say no'. Oh that's OK then.
Even if I had sex with someone and took then back to my house and went to bed, I would still defend my right to say they had non-consensual sex with me while I was asleep.
You cannot, CANNOT take anything for granted when it comes to how you feel about fucking or being fucked.
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Herb Alpert's Taxi Driver I have very beautiful lips, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 22:17,
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in sweden you can't, it seems, and that a shame in my opinion
in England they've sensibly included the "reasonable belief" element into the law. Im not saying the rape law is perfect, and there are huge problems with how rape accusers are treated in the the UK, but this shouldn't be a stick to beat people who question assanges conviction over the head with or say that all rape accusations are of equal merit whatever the circumstances
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 22:34,
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This
and any 'verbal consent' argument is bollocks, you both know if you want to shag, you don't need some kind of verbal confirmation to enforce this
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Jahled Three shades of black, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 22:35,
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This is one of the most contentious points of law there is at the moment.
I have to agree with you, Herbs, if you're asleep you cannot consent to an act you're not aware of being initiated. I don't just start having sex with my wife because I feel like it, I wake her up, get told to 'fuck off, it's three in the morning!' then go back to sleep.
But Galloway needs to shut up and die. Akin, too.
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NooShmoo It's a fantazmagorical pile of ultra bollocks, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 22:44,
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yes, but when you say "wake her up" i bet you don't turn the lights on and wait til she's fully awake and say "I would like to have sex, is it ok"
like me, you probably give her squeeze and see how she physically responds, judging by her body language if she awake enought and into it enough before you continue. You wouldn't rush straight to fucking, but you wouldn't do the lights thing either. In sweden, you're a rapist
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 22:58,
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I have said before that waking someone up by having sex with them is a bit rapey,
and been accused of being boring.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 22:37,
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Really?!
Jesus H Monte Christo! Boring for suggesting that? well, take sloace in the fact that at least one person agrees with you....
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NooShmoo It's a fantazmagorical pile of ultra bollocks, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 22:48,
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like all things, it depends on the circumstances. it's not a crime to want to go again.
have they had had sex before, or is it the first time. Had they had sex that night before? Did it happen half an hour later, or at 4 in the morning when she was dreaming of ponies?
did she wake half-way through to find he was on top of her boning away, or did she respond well to his fondling in a half-asleep sort of way that encouraged him to think it was cool, or did he wake her up and she was fully into it, but she forgot to ask him to put a condom on because she was a bit sleepy and blamed him afterwards?
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 22:49,
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I think this was a regular partner type scenario,
apparently some people are cool with that, personally I'd be absolutely livid.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 22:52,
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fair enough, but is is behaviour so far outside the norms that it should be considered rape
I guess what im trying to say in my usual wordy sort of way is that sexual interaction is complicated and often a little bit animalistic under normal human circumstances, and Im a bit nervous about locking someone up for 5 years if they honestly misinterpret the signals in a non violent sort of way
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 23:06,
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Then if he doesn't want to be locked up
he should give his side of the story where it's appropriate.
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Herb Alpert's Taxi Driver I have very beautiful lips, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 23:09,
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When I dream of ponies
I always feel sexy.
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Herb Alpert's Taxi Driver I have very beautiful lips, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 23:02,
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I'll see you in court.
I am a pony, and fiddling with my fetlock without my consent even while you're asleep is tantamount to rape.
(, Tue 21 Aug 2012, 2:45, Reply)