I saw 'cap' and 'household'
and I thought you were Cavy for a minute there.

Personally, I'd love to be given the chance to survive on £26k, as it would be a marked improvement in my financial state. I also get all 'Daily Mail' when I see people who don't work, but who can afford top of the range technology, brand name clothes, and holidays every year.
I don't want to see anyone go without hte basics, and there's no justification for punishing the poor, but what happened to living within our means? Why are we all automatically entitled to a 50" HD television whether we can afford it or not?

Ooh, I've come over all tory again. I may need to have a lie down and a go of the Daily Star.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:18, 4 replies, latest was 14 years ago)

I wonder how many people on benefits have these 50 inch TV's everyone goes on about.
I doubt there's that many.
(PsychoChomp, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:19, Reply)

Yeah, I think my knee just jerked a bit.

( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:22, Reply)

THEY'VE ALL GOT THEM, PC!!!!!

(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:28, Reply)

I've got a 32 inch flat panel
it was £40 off a mate.
(PsychoChomp, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:36, Reply)

£26k is only £500 a week
After morgtage, council tax, life in general it's not that much really.
(Bear Pookie The Frankly Challenged. Halloween is coming to town., Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:26, Reply)

I totally agree here

( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:30, Reply)

It is a significant something for nothing.

(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:32, Reply)

I very much doubt that it is £500 per week, but I can't be arsed looking into it
Not everyone qualifies for the maximum by any stretch
( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:37, Reply)

Quite
I think the real focus of the argument ought to be not "why are people on beenfits getting over 26K" but "why are people who are working in jobs not taking home over 26K" and also "Why are there not enough jobs to go round and why is the economy shrinking" and finally "why are the cunts at the top of the pile STILL taking home far more than they could ever possibly need to the detriment of everyone else in the country".


This is just typical Tory policy, lets pit the badly off against the worse off by appealing to the nasty, bitter, selfish side of people too stupid to know any better. That way we can make everybody's life equally shit, rather than trying to make everyone's life equally good.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:33, Reply)

Should we all get paid the same?
I baggsy a 35/hr a week job doing light duties. Someone else can do 18 hour days for the same pay as me.
(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:42, Reply)

No, of course we shouldn't all get paid the same, and at no point in my post did I imply this
You're just taking the typical Daily Mail line, I'm assuming partly tongue in cheek.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:45, Reply)

Yes, mate. Sorry.

(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:47, Reply)

^ this ^
i agree with the rest of these questions, and would add more, like "why don't nurses and teachers and other valuable professions get paid more when they work they do is so important".

but not this: "why are the cunts at the top of the pile STILL taking home far more than they could ever possibly need to the detriment of everyone else in the country" - if they work in the private sector, then it's their firm's choice to pay them that. nobody else's business. and the firm will only do that if they think they are worth it.

there should be much greater transparency about those who get paid huge amounts in the public sector, though. i would like to start with my local council, and the dude at the top who gets paid a LOT for FUCK-ALL as far as i can see!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:49, Reply)

Swipe, as you well know
the shareholders which decide the pay packets of these CEOs are institutional investors who sit on each others boards and will always award whatever wage increases they want.

There is plenty of transparency in the public sector already, a bit more in the private sector would be preferable, along with an actual government commitment to simplifying the tax system so there are fewer loopholes.

I don't mind someone earning that much as long as they are paying the same percentage of tax as me, but at that amount they are paying far lower rates of tax than someone earning a pittance.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:05, Reply)

Whilst that may be so....
www.payscale.com/research/UK/Country=United_Kingdom/Salary

....it seems to be considerably more than a lot of people have to do 40h pw in a shitty job to earn. With this in mind one can understand how people choose unemployment/churning out children as a 'career'.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:34, Reply)

Now before your horse gets too high, answer me this Monty
Exactly how many people in this country are actually claiming benefits worth more than 26K a year?

I'm just curious, because it has been acknowledged that this cap will only save the government a few hundred million of a benefits bill that is over 40 billion.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:37, Reply)

I heard on the news it's likely to affect about 60,000 households.
This is, they said, three times higher than estimated.

Whilst compared with the entire bill it's a smaller amount, a few hundred million pounds is not 'only' anything, if you ask me.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:39, Reply)

Now, since Job Seekers Allowance is currently £67.50 a week (which equates to £3.5K a year)
is it not reasonable to assume that these people must be eligible for some quite serious benefits to get the total up to 26K plus?

Please put aside all your anecdotes about "my mate who has a colour TV and is on the dole".
(Bazongaloid, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:43, Reply)

I haven't got any, Al.
Keep your wig on.

The only people I know who don't work are crooks who claim nothing.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:44, Reply)

You get council tax, rent, morgtage interest, free prescriptions, shitloads.

(Bear Pookie The Frankly Challenged. Halloween is coming to town., Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:44, Reply)

Free dentist. Free local authority pool and gym entry.
All the bins you can rummage.
(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:46, Reply)

The vast majority is on housing benifit, when landlords can just keep upping the rent and the DWP will rubber stamp it.
I'm glad that'll put a stop to that sort of thing.
(PsychoChomp, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:45, Reply)

When I first rented out my flat
it went to someone on housing allowance. Granted this was in Scotland, so it might be a different story up there, but the council agreed an amount of rent, and two years later when I wanted to put the rent up by £50, they refused to honour it. I knew I'd never get the extra from the tenant, so I dropped the matter.
I'm sure what you say is true, and there are some seriously overinflated rental prices, just because councils are willing to pay them - maybe the reform should be focused on that instead. A cap on private sector rental to a certain percentage above rateable value, or something.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:48, Reply)

That's partly why we have the problem.
The previous government allowed landlords to charge councils something closer to market rents.
(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:49, Reply)

If only we could have a system where councils themselves owned properties
because something the size of a council could take out a mortgage at fucking great rates of interest and then they could let people stay in the houses and it wouldn't really be costing the council anything, especially after a few years once the mortgage was paid off.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:51, Reply)

There are very few council properties left.
Most have transferres to housing associations, laughingly called non profit making groups.
(Bear Pookie The Frankly Challenged. Halloween is coming to town., Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:55, Reply)

Bloody Thatcher

( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:57, Reply)

But without the market really being involved.
Say a good 4 bed house goes for £1500 a month in an area, a shit one with rubbish heating damp etc should be more like £1000-£1200, but because the "market rate" is £1500 they can charge that to the council.
fucking cowboys.
(PsychoChomp, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:59, Reply)

But will it?
Because the government line is that you should move "somewhere you can afford" and whilst in principle I'm in favour of people living according to their actual capacity to pay their rent, the problem is that a) they are not doing anything to address inflating rents for sub standard properties and b) this looks very much like it will simply lead to creating ghettos that will become even more self perpetuating than those we presently have.

I'm not actually arguing that better allocation of benefits is a bad idea, but a crude cap doesn't appear to be a good way of doing it.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:49, Reply)

Who knows? The rental sector at the moment is a mess.
I think with only 67,000 homes affected it won't make a massive difference. I think a total revisiting of housing benefit would be for the best.
Not necessarily focused on reducing the cost, but a combination of that and increasing the standard of housing to a fit if basic state for a family on benefits.
(PsychoChomp, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:56, Reply)

A crude cap, earlier:

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:57, Reply)

I hope you own one of these.

(Bazongaloid, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:06, Reply)

It probably includes things like
housing benefit, child benefit, council tax benefit, free prescriptions, dental and eye care, free school meals, school uniform allowances, additional child credits for means tested benefits... and so on.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:46, Reply)

So once almost all of life's bills are paid for you,
you then get £67.50 left over? That's £67.50 a week more than I get.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:47, Reply)

You owe me £67.50, btw.

(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:48, Reply)

He owes it to me first.
I bought him a beer before christmas and he never sent me a thank you card and with the interest payments it quickly mounted up.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:50, Reply)

*gasses self*



*realises gas has been disconnected*
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:51, Reply)

You should drown yourself
they can't cut your water off.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:52, Reply)

There's always Wonga.com
Very reasonable pay day lending rates.
(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:52, Reply)

I have 6p to last me til Friday.
Lunch today was two wholemeal pitta breads and butter. I had to borrow the butter.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:53, Reply)

78p worth of buns from Sainsburys and a cuppasoup
*sobs*
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:57, Reply)

I shall be having seared scallops followed by loin of roe deer for dinner
Student food, innit.
( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:04, Reply)

Hahahah

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:07, Reply)

No food or travel on the dole.
Honestly it's fucking hard.
(PsychoChomp, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:49, Reply)

This.
If you're single, on the dole and have no kids, you're knackered really.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:52, Reply)

Yeah, but if you have a mortgage, then you're basically fucked.
The last I knew, you had to wait 40 weeks before you got help on just the interest alone.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:50, Reply)

If I lose my job I think it's fair enough that I'll have to sell my house to pay for my life, to be honest.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:52, Reply)

Assuming you could sell it quickly I'd agree.
Not always the case, though.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:54, Reply)

Despite it needing work
I could sell mine in days, I suspect. My brother (who is up for redundancy) is not in the same boat, poor cunt.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:00, Reply)

We live in an area of town that is generally highly sought after.
Properties tend to go on the market and get snapped up more or less immediately. Our neighbour's put their place on the market about three years ago and didn't even get a sniff of an offer, whilst other properties around the estate were proudly displaying 'Sold' signs. No idea why.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:03, Reply)

Maybe they were only renting it.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:05, Reply)

I reckon the fact that it reeked of brown ale, gravy, coal and despair
is what put the potential buyers off.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:06, Reply)

haha

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:08, Reply)

That reminds me
when I next go to Davros' house I want one his gravy sandwich things from the shop near his house.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:11, Reply)

That and the neighbours were cunts.

(PsychoChomp, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:11, Reply)

10/10

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:13, Reply)

:(

( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Mon 23 Jan 2012, 15:22, Reply)

67000 housholds.
So fuck all really.
(PsychoChomp, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:42, Reply)

67000 x £26000 (at the minimum) = £1,742,000,000
hardly "fuck all", is it?
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:00, Reply)

The total cost of benefits is over 40 billion though
And by reducing maximum benefits to 26K you only save about 200 million. So it's not making any sort of significant difference in total government spending.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:10, Reply)

that's only one way to look at it though
what could you do for hospitals/schools if you had another 200,000,000?
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:13, Reply)

I doubt that any "savings"
Will actually end up with hospitals etc
(Bonzodog29 is an unemployed sponge of the worst kind, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 15:21, Reply)

OH FOR FUCKS SAKE, it's taken me 10 minutes of form after form after form.
I'm on way below the lowest, the average being around 1.75* times what I get. But I'm more than happy where I am.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:52, Reply)

hmmm
i can't decide if my result will help my pay review or hinder it. urgh.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:08, Reply)

If you're paying a mortgage and council tax
you're probably not collecting much in the way of benefits.

But £500 a week is quite a lot in my book. I wouldn't mind bringing home that much without having to work for it.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:39, Reply)

I get Daily Mail when I see people who DON'T WORK
I know of a brother and sister and neither of them have jobs.
Life of Riley for months, the pair of them.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:32, Reply)

I get fucking apoplectic when people use anecdotes of one or two people to justify their opinions of an entire country
whilst not bothering to do any research to see if they are correct in their wide reaching assertions.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:35, Reply)

Bear in mind, though, Roota is from Liverpool.
I'm sure she has more than one or two similar anecdotes.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:37, Reply)

I'm pretty sure she'd have to throw a rock extremely accuratly
and about 50 miles, to hit someone who wasn't on the fiddle.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:38, Reply)

*nose/pointy gesture*

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:38, Reply)

It was a joke about b3th and djtp you soft twat

( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:41, Reply)

Watch out Roota, he's got a self rightious erection and he knows how to use it.

(PsychoChomp, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:46, Reply)

Best of all the erections.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:48, Reply)

Has someone poured salt on him or what?

( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:48, Reply)

Calm down la',
calm down.
(Bear Pookie The Frankly Challenged. Halloween is coming to town., Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:45, Reply)

Oh, you mean the Riley twins?

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:35, Reply)

That's shocking.
I heard one of them was on a sabbatical and one of them was actually self employed.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:36, Reply)

A likely story
I heard they go to Alton Towers EVERY day
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:42, Reply)

I heard one of them was so determined to do his bit for society
he's offered to take in a Scouser and teach it to use cutlery.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:44, Reply)

just knives
ON YOUR FACE
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:44, Reply)

Oh, you'll get yours, bitch








love you really kiss kiss
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:49, Reply)

Go and take some Evening Primrose, cunty
Love you too wevs
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:51, Reply)

hahahaha!

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:54, Reply)

Is that wearing a bad shellsuit?

(Bear Pookie The Frankly Challenged. Halloween is coming to town., Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:48, Reply)

What really f'cking gets me is how the press make life on benfits seem like an easy option.
I don't know anyone who's needed them and gotten them in an acceptable timeframe. Sick Benfit is a fucking joke, around 60% of denied claims go through as granted on appeal. 60%, that's almost 2/3rds of this country's most vulnrable people who have to go through hell for no reason.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:55, Reply)

i keep thinking of my poor godmother. She's away to the fairies and really vulnerable, but physically 'ok'.
I just know they're going to throw her off 'the sick' and I swear she would get fired anyway becuase she has short-term amnesia and doesn't know where she's been/going. She's the type of trusting person who would get raped in the store-room or something.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:58, Reply)

Has she tried taking lots of polaroids and plotting her revenge?

(PsychoChomp, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:02, Reply)

is this off a film?
I only know the one where he writes all over himself in permanent marker. Sometimes my nana says to her "In Tesco, remind me to get eggs" or whatever. And she says "Are you being funny?!"
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:04, Reply)

Memento, it's a fucking excellent film.
Go watch it. NOW
(PsychoChomp, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:08, Reply)

Does he write over himself in marker?

( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:11, Reply)

If you can't go to your assesment, then you're being lazy and can go do one, if you can go, then you can go to work instead.
Payments being rediculously late, like, weeks and months, seem normal. Forms and letters always go missing, it's mass incompitancy, they _never_ call back, unless you owe them. They'll make mistake after mistake, if they over-pay you, it's no problem, they'll just take it out later on.

And they make the system so hellish that people make themselves really ill going back to work, and when they fail after a week because they aren't ready, they have to start all over again.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:07, Reply)

They also lie in the 'transcripts'
I'm going to go with her and take a dictaphone
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:09, Reply)

but that wouldn't make a screaming front page, so it wouldn't sell papers, gonzo
the lone 3rd generation scrounger who earns £100k on the side, however, will get the daily fail readers frothing at the gash.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 13:59, Reply)

Exactly, and then they vilify the person who accepts what they're given rather than the system which gave them it.

( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:08, Reply)

You can be on incapacity benefit for being an alkie,
which strikes me as a bit much.
(Bear Pookie The Frankly Challenged. Halloween is coming to town., Mon 23 Jan 2012, 14:12, Reply)