DRUGS
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-10990921
Interesting opinions in that article, so why do you think the government will dismiss them this time?
(PsychoChomp, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:24, 138 replies, latest was 16 years ago)

whichever government decides to trial this
will lose power for ages. In my opinion the majority of the country would be against this. Plus I hate to think how taxed it would be.
( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:27, Reply)

Even if it's taxed to fuck I wouldn't mind.
Drinking and smoking is expensive, still do it though.

I think the majority of the country won't care but the anti drugs lobby is going to be louder and better funded than the pro drugs
(PsychoChomp, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:29, Reply)

See I think the majority of the country would care.
We're all fairly liberal on here but we're not exactly an accurate portrayal of society just one part of it. If you could start getting coke and heroin in Boots it would freak a lot of people out. I like it the way it is. All grimy and seedy and uncontrolled. I don't want to have to buy a pack of 5 b&h spliffs and pay some ridiculous price for the privelige.

edit - apologies for spelling
( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:32, Reply)

I don't do drugs
I'm scared of them, and I'm with Gonz when he says they make people mad and stupid (he used better words). That is why I'd be happy if drug addicts could buy the drugs at Boots, in a controlled way, with explanations on how the drug might affect them (same as it's done with alcohol and cigarrets). I'd be even happier knowing that because the composition of the drugs is controlled, a lot fewer of them will need a doctor. And on top of that, the ones that will need a doctor for abusing them, would have paid part of the treatment to the NHS on taxes. It's all advantages.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:41, Reply)

your sensible
and well reasoned argument has made me think. That would be beneficial but as a recreational drug user (weed) I'm pretty much happy the way it is.
( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:44, Reply)

Yes, I can see your point and why
But I think weed is not the problem here. There is a lot of crime around drugs because they're illegal. It was proved in the States during the dry period (no idea how you call it in English, but that time when they couldn't sell alcohol). They only managed to get a lot of criminals involved on smuggling it around, charging extorsionate prices for it. Nothing good.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:47, Reply)

Prohibition
it was called.
( Kroney, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:54, Reply)

It didn't work
And they had to de-prohibit.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:56, Reply)

Mind you
two arguments against it, are 1) that it's a bit unlikely those dosed up on heroin or crack have or are paying tax to support their own lifestyle, and 2) there will still be crime because people will still steal and rob to get the funds to buy the stuff
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:11, Reply)

but whatever they do
illegal drugs will still be available and the cycle will continue. I think I am a nihilist now so don't see the point in anything.
( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:56, Reply)

Yes
We'll always find a way to get illegal things, like there's always people who speed on the cars, park on yellow lines, steal, kill... that doesn't mean those things shouldn't be regulated, don't you think?
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:58, Reply)

regulation requires enforcement
and I am always against that. Do what we say or we'll bash you!
( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:02, Reply)

And prohibition doesn't?
Really? Don't you think that prohibiting the use of drugs is enforcing the prohibition?
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:04, Reply)

sorry Aber I'm a bit confused explain that last bit to me again? xx

( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:06, Reply)

Oi Bob.
How did you get on with that ginger Doris from B&Q?

Will she let you 'do it' 'cos she works in B&Q (it)?
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:07, Reply)

she wasn't there just the bald sweaty guy.
Did change my grinder though to the party sized one. Am gonna go back as I'm a little smitten. I was almost tempted to ask sweaty man but might be bad if it's his missus or daughter or sister or something.
( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:09, Reply)

Have you worked out your 'patter'?
Why not go all Pat Mustard on her and see if she'll let you put your massive tool in her box?
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:11, Reply)

I was thinking of just buying the biggest rocket or firework in there
and make very unsubtle and obvious penis jokes before casually getting my cock out
( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:16, Reply)

If she working in B&Q
She'll be concious of the world and health and safety.

Buy the biggest firework they've got, but rather than asking for a bag will you get to the till, whip out a giant Rover biscuit tip - put the firework in there, give her a wink and walk out with a swagger.

She'll be putty in your hands. Absolutely no way you can fail. Trust me. *I'm a natural with the ladies.*

JTDF
*Internet lies.
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:20, Reply)

it's the firework shop not B&Q
natural with raper of
( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:22, Reply)

What? Firework shops sell grinders?
Catherine Wheels, yes. Sparklers, yes. But a grinder for grinding things?
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:25, Reply)

yeah for Marijuana
You know on Gloucester road near the Hobgoblin. Other side of the road bout 50 yards up. Little fire work shop.
( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:28, Reply)

Tell ya what.
I'm in a benevolent mood today, and I'm heading into Bristol later on so if you want, I'll go to the shop and say.

'My mate, well, I say mate, this bloke I know, well, I don't actually know him, but this character on the Internet says he fancies the ginger girl what works here. If she's interested, here is a link to a thread where he says he likes her'

I'll buy a box of bangers, just to show I'm the real deal, not some weirdo.

When you next go in there, her fuse will be well lit and all you'll need to do is stand back as she explodes into a sparkly, spinning love rocket.

Warning. Should she fail to go off, don't approach her again.
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:33, Reply)

and if you could also pop into tesco express just a bit further up
opposite the flyer and tell the blonde/redhead in there she is also on my LIST that would be appreciated.
( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:38, Reply)

They enforce their way, don't they
You do as they say (don't take drugs) or they'll bash you.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:16, Reply)

yup I know what you mean
but I assume that with new laws mean new enforcement laws which will only make things shitter in my opinion. I can't imagine it working and hope I never see it in practice.
( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:26, Reply)

Again,
look at the example of the States and alcohol. They had to enforce a lot more laws on everyday people during the dry period than now.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:28, Reply)

but look at the time
it was the 1920's it wasn't exactly easy to enforce it which is why the bootleggers ran amok. The whole thing is cycular but everynow and again someone changes the rules and the baddies find new ways to break them. Just no point. Besides the whole species is doomed anyway may as well just give drugs away and let's end it on a high.
( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:32, Reply)

And it's easy to enforce the law now, isn't it?
That's why nobody takes drugs, because you can't find them on the street because the law is so well inforced.

And I don't think we're doomed, sorry. I think we'll do just fine.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:40, Reply)

If they were sold in boots on a prescription basis with the intention of helping people get off them for addiction reasons, such as Methadone.
Then that is cool, but the whole point of this is to sell them on recreational basis, which will never happen with doctor's concen, and therefore the only way to do it would be to sell them on a retail/high-street basis.

Maybe some sort of 'drug card' would be a good idea, where you present a card, or even some pin-prick blood test to see what you've got in your system; and on that basis, you can buy a pill from a registared person. But people will cheat the system, and the infrastructer would be huge for this to work.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:18, Reply)

Leah Betts' dad is a fucking twat.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:36, Reply)

yeah he ruined it for the rest of us

( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:51, Reply)

Because the voting public
as a whole just don't want drugs legalised. I've heard all the arguments for and against and the fact of the matter is that people won't change their minds once they've been made up. The majority of people have made their minds up in the negative.

The Government, self-serving as only a short term democratic government can be, will do what the majority want regardless of whatever proof is given to them by science.
( Kroney, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:28, Reply)

People are and always have been pro death penalty
still worth getting rid of it.
(PsychoChomp, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:31, Reply)

Not in my experience,
but I guess that's subjective.
( Kroney, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:32, Reply)

Last poll I saw put it about 51% against

( WormuIus, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:38, Reply)

There's always about a 3% margin for error.

(PsychoChomp, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:47, Reply)

So 54% could be against it
That's good.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:48, Reply)

fight grumpiness with cheerfulness :)

( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:13, Reply)

I'm good at that
and I think he hates me for that.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:18, Reply)

I don't hate you,
you're one of the nicer ones.
(PsychoChomp, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:20, Reply)

I was just joking
I'd be very sad if you hated me. I don't like people hating me.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:22, Reply)

They could at least try with a referendum
Or a non-commited voting something, to let people have a say. I think legalizing will stop a shit load of crime happening.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:44, Reply)

because you touch yourself at night

(The Cat Hater punch a cow for the planet, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:28, Reply)

Fuck off bert

(PsychoChomp, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:30, Reply)

Oh God it probably is as well.

( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:33, Reply)

I'm not bert
so you fuck off
(The Cat Hater punch a cow for the planet, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:33, Reply)

Shut up Bert

( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:34, Reply)

Shut up Bert

(PenguinOfDeath is Scottish, and most likely angry, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:34, Reply)

tou
fucking che!
( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:35, Reply)

I'm not Bert
my name is Jim
(The Cat Hater punch a cow for the planet, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:48, Reply)

You seem to be a very angry person

(PenguinOfDeath is Scottish, and most likely angry, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:34, Reply)

I'm not angry at all

(The Cat Hater punch a cow for the planet, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:48, Reply)

This won't make a difference at all
The government has a history of ignoring its appointed experts, unless their opinion fits what the ruling party wants to do anyway.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:31, Reply)

^ this
just look at what happened to that chap who said riding a horse was more dangerous than taking e.
(berk, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:37, Reply)

Won't someone please think of Dr David Kelly?

( fuck shit up the best you never had, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:44, Reply)

He was good on 'Game for a Laugh'
but I didn't like 'Stars in Their Eyes'.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:45, Reply)

The Government has already set out it's stall
and was elected on that basis.

The better question is who should decide?
( WormuIus, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:37, Reply)

Jimmy Saville.
He seems a level-headed fellow.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:42, Reply)

The deciderer obv.

(PsychoChomp, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:46, Reply)

Won't someone please think of the children?

( fuck shit up the best you never had, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:45, Reply)

I'm not allowed.

(PsychoChomp, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:45, Reply)

Admitting this is the first step to recovery
Srsly, what are the drug runner kids supposed to do if drugs become legal? Where are they going to get their classroom kudos if they're not ferrying skag and meth for Benny the pimp anymore? Will the politicians spare a thought for lil tiff who's been supporting her entire extended family through whoring herself and selling crack to foetus'? Bet your arse they won't.
( fuck shit up the best you never had, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:48, Reply)

kinky bitch

( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:45, Reply)

gary glitter

( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:45, Reply)

Where's SuperMatt when we need him?

( stuj (^(^;;^)^) GO TEAM SPIDERS!(^(^;;^)^), Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:46, Reply)

:(

( fuck shit up the best you never had, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:50, Reply)

*thinks of the children*

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:47, Reply)

Same reasons as always Chompy.
A mixture of fear, ignorance, greed and love of power.
( stuj (^(^;;^)^) GO TEAM SPIDERS!(^(^;;^)^), Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:45, Reply)

Here's a thought
The only reason we have drugs in the UK is because a desire to take them exists. Perhaps we could come up with a way to neutralise that desire?
( WormuIus, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:47, Reply)

just no!

( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:47, Reply)

I don't take illegal drugs
and I'm generally quite scornful of people that do, in fact I'm quite scornful of people that do anything that harms their body to any meaningful degree.

I don't know if this is because I'm much cleverer than everybody else or just less ignorant, but it would be good if everyone could be like me.
( WormuIus, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:51, Reply)

you sound like a right boring bastard.

( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:54, Reply)

And how do you propose to do so?
I've convinced only 1 person in all my life to stop taking drugs. That's not a very good statistic. Maybe I'm using the wrong method, can you help?
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:55, Reply)

It will be very difficult
Not everybody has the genetic capacity to be as staggeringly brilliant as me.
( WormuIus, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:58, Reply)

Yes, obviously
I don't think you'd do very well as a counsellor:

Poor guy: How could I improve my (insert anything you want to improve here)?
Wormulus: Are you anything like me?
PG: I don't think so...
W: Then you're fucked.

I don't think it'll work very well.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:00, Reply)

That's the kindest way really.

( WormuIus, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:26, Reply)

But you drink alcohol
and thus you are talking shit.

Drink harms one's body to a considerably more meaningful degree than most illegal drugs, you Deacon.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:15, Reply)

I don't drink very much because I'm aware of the harmful effects it has on the human body.
This is in essence the reason that I am scornful of people that damage their bodies through poor decision making based in ignorance.

Does this assist?
( WormuIus, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:27, Reply)

What do you eat?

(Himjim died a little more inside on, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:36, Reply)

A little.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:36, Reply)

There's not a pill big or strong enough
to remove Monty's desire for drugs!
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:48, Reply)

Deport smack addicts to France?
Fuck you, France.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:48, Reply)

With a drug that makes you happy?
But you have to take it all the time, otherwise you don't feel happy anymore? To the point you might get addict to it? And we can buy it over the counter?

That's pretty much legalizing drugs.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:49, Reply)

You're suggesting that we kill all the druggies?
I'm shocked and appalled.
(wellgroomedwookiee is a filthy-minded hobgoblin, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:49, Reply)

Since substance abuse has been recorded, it's stayed fairly stationary at 3% of the population.
Nothing has changed this no matter how much money is spent.
(PsychoChomp, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:51, Reply)

I would imagine that most people over 40 wouldn't consider taking drugs
and most people under 12 would find getting access to them quite difficult.

If you look at the number of people between the ages of 13-35 and the volume of imported illegal drugs you can only conclude that amongst that group there is a high demand.

High-end enforcement is working, but at present this is simply translating into lower purity rates of drugs, which again is consistent with a high demand.

Sorry, don't find your argument compelling.
( WormuIus, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:56, Reply)

"I imagine" not a good way to counter a point.
High end enforcment isn't "working" in any actual way, it's just slightly limiting supply, it's not a victory by any measure. It's just that everyone knows that they can't stop all drugs coming in so they lower their expectations.
(PsychoChomp, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:09, Reply)

If the number of drug takers remained constant
the amount of drugs imported would remain roughly constant.
( WormuIus, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:28, Reply)

Interesting
That he has only come to this conclusion now he's the 'outgoing' president (by outgoing, I assume he's about to leave the role, rather than him being uber confident and chatty).

Why wasn't that his view when he took the job on? Simple. He wouldn't have got it if he was in the 'pro' camp.
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:51, Reply)

I look at it like this....
You know the problem with drunks on the streets, I'm talking about the after-pub crowd. Look at a lot of city-centres on a weekend-night... there is fighting, people throwing up and people in a right mess. I'm not saying that's everyone.

But I would have thought if you include drugs into the equation, it would exasborate the problem.

.... or, maybe, people will spark up a zute instead of going out, causing problems for those industries.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 10:55, Reply)

that's the thing though isn't it
legalising drugs just brings them into the public view rather than in the home. I'm not talking about party drugs like coke and E but more things like heroin, opium etc you don't see everyday. It's just too much of a radical change.
( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:00, Reply)

Drugs, like alcohol
Could only be sold in authorised stores. Prices for the license would be high. They should be places like the chemist, rather than like the pub.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:03, Reply)

I could be wrong here, but I thought the point of this drug system is to get it on a recreational basis.
Putting them in phamacys and needing prescriptions, I could live with, because no doctor would prescribe the drugs for recreational use.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:07, Reply)

No, not like a prescription
but like a medicine. You can buy it only in places authorised to sell them. You don't need anyones signature to buy it, but you need to go to this place to get it, rather than anywhere on the street (like alcohol)

In fact, you could get them cheaper if you agree to visit an specialist to get it (like with the morning after pill)
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:20, Reply)

Without being in the industry, there are 4 types of medicen.
- Things like Paracetimol - anyone can sale it
- Things like Solphadeen - Only phamacists can sale it.
- Things like Codiene - Needs a Prescription
- Things like Morphine - Control drug: Needs a prescsription and isn't kept on premises unless they have a patient who has it reguarly.

What way would you class it? Because no medical proffesional would prescribe any drug for recreational use.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:41, Reply)

Drugs have a bad public image
You mention the subject and people don't think about recreational users, they think about pasty skag-heads, hookers with their faces scarred by meth, dope-fiends who've had all their motivation sapped out of them by too much skunk and gurning, sweating clubbers taking E and dying in alleys.

That's the problem you see, people are scared of all these things becoming the norm. They don't see crime decreasing, they see hordes of people robbing stuff to ay for their addiction.

The public is stupid. Fact.
( Kroney, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:14, Reply)

Misinformed maybe.
Nothing like a good drug scare to get people angry or scared. Not only is there the fear that your kids could be taking meow meow or whatever the fuck they decided it was called, but also some junkie might come along and nick all your stuff or punch a granny for her pension. Media representation always seems to focus on the end result - junkies. And of course we can all feel superior to them because they're basicaly scum aren't they? Aren't we successfull?

The media as a whole doesn't realy like to challenge peoples preconceptions much, or try to make people think, or present different or new ideas about how to tackle the entire problem. Its there to entertain first, inform second.
(Fredz A graveyard of hopes, a dump of ambition, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:20, Reply)

Take booze as an example, because that's the closest mind-altering thing that's out there in the high-street.
It's not often you hear of someone robbing a stranger for booze money, but you do get them robbing their family. Addicts are addicts, and will lie and cheat for their drug, weather it's booze, gambling or sushi.

Ok, let's say we are going to put these drugs onto the streets, how do we go about doing it?
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:22, Reply)

Controlled cheap and clean.
Drive the fuckers that profit from getting people hooked on illegal substances out of the market. Concentrate on the pushers, the big players.... Oh, and couple that with some decent social reforms of some nature that aim to close the massive poverty gap in this country, work towards social justice and getting people out of a situation where addiction to a drug seems like a viable alternative to daily life.
(Fredz A graveyard of hopes, a dump of ambition, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:25, Reply)

Ok
Let's say we prohibit alcohol, as it's a bad drug. Do you think it'll help anyone? Again, as I said before, it didn't help in the States. It increased crime around it, people drunk it as always and a lot of deaths were counted for people drinking what they bought as alcohol but wasn't.

It didn't help anyone, that's why they took it back. I think with drugs it'd be the same.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:25, Reply)

I'll do it, no problem.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:26, Reply)

Specialised clinics
for the class A addicts, with the intention of weaning people off them. Or if there's a way of removing the chemicals that create the physical dependancy, then that should be investigated. Really, nothing that's as easy as nicotine or heroin to get addicted to should be legal, as far as I'm concerned.

For things like cocaine, of which I'm personally not a massive fan, that don't appear to be addictive, there's no reason why people shouldn't be able to buy them in specialist shops.

I don't see any particular reason why things like weed can't be bought and smoked in Dutch style cafes.
( Kroney, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:27, Reply)

The problem with the cafes is that the trade in the substance is still illegal.
It's kind of the worst of both worlds.
( WormuIus, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:30, Reply)

Hm
Everyone here seems to be considering the idea that somehow drug stores would open up on every street corner. I was under the impression that legalising "illegal" drugs would instead mean that drug users would not be turned into criminals merely for possessing drugs and/or using them and that the orgonised crime groups currently smuggling large quantities of drugs and dealing them would come under slightly revised but just as severe legislation.

Coupled with certain very controlled outlets supplying cheap clean and legal drugs to addicts (at prices that would drive the orgonised criminal groups out of buisness) this seems like quite a good way of not only cutting off revenue to the orgonised criminal groups profiting from the desire for illegal recreational drugs but also ensuring that people truly addicted to drugs don't just fall through the net, that they aren't criminalised and don't neccisarily have to resort to violent crime to get enough money to feed their habit.
(Fredz A graveyard of hopes, a dump of ambition, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:12, Reply)

I think you are correct in your reasons for this change.

( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:14, Reply)

according to that BBC article
they would merely decriminalise not legalise.

Meh it's obviously an error of conscience with me, but I find it difficult to give a damn about drug-abusers. It's their lookout, everyone knows the risks associated and if you choose to risk them and fuck your life up, then that's your own fault. How long before the first of the junkies tries to sue the government for making drugs available?
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:20, Reply)

Thing is not everyone does know the risks associated.
Or they just don't consider them. Or they're so fucking depressed and down about their situation that drugs seem a fairly good way of quitting the universe temporarily. Think about it - if people are so well informed, and know what it's like to be a junkie and everything how desprate would you have to be for escape, any escape from your situation that something like Heroin seems a viable alternative?
(Fredz A graveyard of hopes, a dump of ambition, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:22, Reply)

Well then
rather than focusing on how to get the largest quantity of drugs to the people least suited to be able to cope once they are on them, people with mental health problems, depression etc who can't afford them in the first place, I think there are other more worthwhile avenues to put money in. Awareness of the damage they do, better education to provide an alternative, and better pinpointing of that vulnerable sub-section of society. Don't give them more to alleviate their pain, do something about it.

Edit: I should stress here, that I am not anti drug-decriminalisation but that I think it is far too complex to simply be implemented, and that there are other more worthwhile avenues. Plus weed shouldn't even be part of the argument. That should just be legalised
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:26, Reply)

Oh don't get me wrong
There's no way this would realy work without some form of pretty major social policy change - focusing on some of the more unpleasent aspects of society that most of us don't realy like thinking about - mental health issues, poverty gap ect... I'm just saying that decriminalisation and supply of cheap and clean alternatives would mean that junkies are not criminalised on top of their other problems and don't have to commit various crimes to fund their habit.
(Fredz A graveyard of hopes, a dump of ambition, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:33, Reply)

It's a difficult one
I think I'm probably just a bad person, because I have less sympathy in this instance. Other addictions you can see how they start things like alcohol, cigarettes, gambling, even cocaine etc. Smack and crack are a bit beyond my comprehension. Regardless it is society that needs to be fixed, rather than what is essentially a 'make life easier' for the junky fix
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:37, Reply)

Ah. Well I guess it depends
And I do totaly agree with you. There are aspects of our society that realy do need changing. Trouble is how to go about it. I personaly think that decriminalisation would be a rather usefull tool if it's combined with certain other social reforms.
(Fredz A graveyard of hopes, a dump of ambition, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:41, Reply)

Has anyone ever tried to sue the government
for making alcohol available?
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:27, Reply)

I don't think alcohol
is on the same level as crack. And I'd point out that several cigarette companies have been sued (success is not the point)
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:31, Reply)

Volenti non fit injuria would presumably prevent liability for the brewers etc
I suppose you could attempt to JR the government's decision to make alcohol legal but you would fail, it being a non justiciable subject and a whole host of other reasons.

In summary, your idea is made of fail.
( WormuIus, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:35, Reply)

What idea is that?
Amber said junkies might try to sue the govt for making drugs available, all I did was point out that this has not happened with alkies and the govt.

So, my post contains no idea of mine nor of anyone else, and thus in summary, your post is made of fail.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:42, Reply)

there's no place here for your sensible and realistic arguments

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:20, Reply)

Goddamnit!
erm... Drugs are bad? Will that do?
(Fredz A graveyard of hopes, a dump of ambition, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:25, Reply)

nope
I've smoked drugs every day for 10 years or more, and it hasn't done me any harm.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:26, Reply)

Erm, we're over here, mate.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:27, Reply)

^ same as this enlightened chap

( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:28, Reply)

Heh, well I tried making it more simple...
Drugs are good?
(Fredz A graveyard of hopes, a dump of ambition, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:33, Reply)

damn right

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:35, Reply)

I agree with you
I've tried to write it like that myself, but you're much better than me.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:27, Reply)

Eh, To be fair I did focus on stuff like this in my degree
Personaly I beleive that the criminalisation of certain drugs just leads to the development of an underclass of junkies ect. that we can all safely ignore because it's probably their fault right? I mean, it's not like we realy have to consider the bigger picture or some of the slightly more moraly grey areas if we just dismiss them all as dirty junkies robbing grannies and that.
(Fredz A graveyard of hopes, a dump of ambition, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:36, Reply)

I think that's a bit complex
a lot of them do steal, rob and occasionally kill to fund their habit. And regardless a lot of them did choose to go on the stuff to begin with.

Yes there are problems that need to be sorted, but I don't think painting drug-abusers as merely in need of sympathetic help will work
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:40, Reply)

True.
But I'm not realy saying that we should paint all drug addicts as merely in need of sympathetic help, after all stating that they're all just victims is just putting another label on them, what is needed is intelligent investigation into the problem in the mainstream media, not just one opinion or another that can be eisily summed up with a soundbite.
(Fredz A graveyard of hopes, a dump of ambition, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:44, Reply)

People do seem to think that
these drug shops would be available as some kind of private enterprise. I would envision it as more the Canadian off-licence model. They have specific outlets owned and regulated directly by the government under a kind of franchise scheme.

People in effect buy their booze from the government through an intermediary.
( Kroney, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:36, Reply)

Thats more or less what I was thinking too
It's been suggested before now, but the entire idea of government intervention in such things and the expansion of the state is rather unpopular with the right wing, and most left wing parties know that if they even suggested such a thing it'd be more or less political suicide.
(Fredz A graveyard of hopes, a dump of ambition, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:39, Reply)

The problem here isn't that too many people are on drugs, or pushing drugs
It's that there are too many people.

A nice cull, or better yet some sort of disease/disaster/zombie apocalypse would sort it all out.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:29, Reply)

i'll take "Zombie Apocalypse" please Bob
i've got my survival plan all worked out.

Step 1: Kill my next door neighbour and steal his shotguns
Step 2: Some kind of rampage
Step 3: ...
Step 4: Profit
( Colonel Dracula Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:41, Reply)

People seem to get up in arms about crack & smack etc...
How about legalising some of the less hardcore drugs - weed, ecstacy etc? After all, more people smoke and drink than take drugs and sure, some of this is societal conditioning but some of it is also a matter of availability and price. Legal class B & C drugs might reduce the number of people who choose to take class A (at least recreationally - this won't help with addicts, but might help reduce the number of future addicts).

Also I'm sure I read that the mark up for illegal drugs at the moment is in the region of 1000% - you can tax weed harder than tobacco for similar production costs. And all that money is going to the government.

On a largely unrelated note, anyone get pissed off with drug-fueled hippies? Oh, all my food is fair trade organic. And I'm a vegan. And a pacifist. Yeah, and the people who keep you in cocaine are just nice as pie, aren't they?
(wellgroomedwookiee is a filthy-minded hobgoblin, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:33, Reply)

I just hate hippies

( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:35, Reply)

Sanctimonious cunts.
West-coast American hippies are the worst of all.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:37, Reply)

There's a guy in Texas or New Mexico
or somewhere, who's built his house out of tyres and recycles his urine and so on.

As ecologically aware as I try to be, this (literal) shit-eating prick makes me want to dump crude oil all over his smug hippie face.
( Kroney, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:41, Reply)

now this makes sense
and yes I hate hippies
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:41, Reply)

I've just realised....
If we legalise the sale of drugs then there will be no more drug dealers to run over in our Hondas!
(Fredz A graveyard of hopes, a dump of ambition, Tue 17 Aug 2010, 11:49, Reply)

It's simple
All drugs should be available legally to anyone who is

- over 25
- employed

Why over 25? Well, there's no point escaping from reality until you have some fucking grasp of what reality is! Kids on drugs annoy me because they can't possibly appreciate them. What a waste!
(moon monkey is busy making memories worth repressing, Thu 19 Aug 2010, 11:57, Reply)