EMERGENCY BBC LINK
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20053244

So do you think prisoners should get the vote? I do, so if you don't you're wrong. Opinions?
(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:35, 221 replies, latest was 13 years ago)

of course they shouldn't be allowed to vote.
you silly sossige.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:37, Reply)

Why not?
The actual EU ruling says that banning certain prisoners from voting is allowed, but a blanket ban is illegal.
So ban anyone that you consider has lost the right to vote, but not everyone.
(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:39, Reply)

fuck that shit. you get sent down, you lose the right to be involved in society.
it's not fucking rocket science.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:40, Reply)

What if you get sent down for breaking into a military base protesting against nuclear weapons?

(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:41, Reply)

well, those cunts should have been shot.
it makes no difference. you get banged up, you broke the law.
law says you can't break into a military base, so you shouldn't have. thems the rules you filthy pinko.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:42, Reply)

What if you're in prison for something that an opposition party is going to decriminilise?

(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:47, Reply)

stop trolling me you wanker.
you've been convicted of a crime = no vote.
that simple enough for you?
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:49, Reply)

... until you've paid for that crime.

( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:02, Reply)

It's too simple, that's the problem.

(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:03, Reply)

no YOU'RE too simple.

( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:07, Reply)

Since you're Scottish, I think that makes your comment ironic.

(Bazongaloid, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:10, Reply)

christ, at least keep the bigoted comments to type you fucking wanker.

( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:13, Reply)

Why should I?
What possible right do you have to dictate to me how and when I should be offensive to people with low intelligence who spend all their time on he internet being "edgy"?
(Bazongaloid, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:15, Reply)

by being edgy and calling me scottish?
wow, FP THIS NOW!!!!!
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:16, Reply)

Calling you Scottish isn't really very edgy, so I don't think it deserves to be on the front page.
you see, the joke was that I implied that because you were scottish you were simple. That was reasonably funny, but then you went and got all upset about it and started trying to tell me what I could and couldn't do and it all got a bit messy especially since it wasn't like it was either the greatest joke in the world, or the most cutting insult.
(Bazongaloid, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:20, Reply)

and totally misreading people that post on b3ta makes you a typical QOTWer.
well played, you massive bender.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:29, Reply)

^ this ^

( Fucking hell Jeff I am not a robot, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:41, Reply)

No
they lost their civil liberties when they went in.
(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:40, Reply)

For all crimes?
What about political crimes?
(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:40, Reply)

yeah, lets give oirish terrorists the vote.

( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:41, Reply)

Well we let them sit in Parliament
they just chose not to
(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:43, Reply)

Such as?

(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:42, Reply)

Striking miners in the 80s
having a sit in at a vodafones protesting the taxes they pay.
(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:43, Reply)

oh get right to fuck chompy you terrible troll.
those are not political prisoners you fucking prick.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:46, Reply)

They are in prison because of a political protest.

(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:47, Reply)

get right to fuck, do not pass fuck, do collect a big fuck off.
these pricks are not political prisoners you fucking gimp.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:48, Reply)

You haven't convinced me that a blanket ban is moral or useful.

(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:50, Reply)

I couldn't really give a fuck what you think chompy.
they're not going to get the vote. they don't deserve it either.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:51, Reply)

Yeah they will
because the only thing that makes worse headline than "prisoners get the vote" is "prisoners get awarded compensation for not being given the vote"
(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:56, Reply)

pffft, whatevrz hippy

( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:58, Reply)

Why would they ignore the EU on a point of law
but then follow the EU by paying compensation for ignoring the law?

Surely they'd just ignore that too?
(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:10, Reply)

They would try, but they would continue to lose
and what makes a headline even worse is "Government wastes enormous amounts of public money fighting a legal case it knew it was going to lose and then ha to pay out anyway"
(Bazongaloid, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:12, Reply)

Might depend how many UKIP voters they want to attract back then

(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:30, Reply)

Can you have civil responsibilities without civil liberties?
And vice versa?
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:41, Reply)

That's the problem
lots of people want "rights" and "entitlements" but aren't prepared to have any "responsibilities" towards their fellow men and women.
This applies across all the social spectrum.
(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:46, Reply)

well "said" you "nob".

( The Doveston haunted by the memory of his own amnesia, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:49, Reply)

Voting is both a right and a responsibility, so that argument doesn't make much sense to me.

(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:51, Reply)

voting isn't a right and not one extended to all of society.

( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:53, Reply)

And it's not compulsory
but that's another argument
(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:56, Reply)

I think it is in Australia.
And I like the concept. Everyone can moan then because they voted.
(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:58, Reply)

I like the idea
but you'd need a "none of the above" option, and the way things are at the moment it'd probably win.
If you were imprisoned for not voting, would that make you a political prisoner?
(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:03, Reply)

I think the non of the above catergory and the polling stations opened over two days could make it work.

(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:05, Reply)

I GET THIS JOKE!!!!!

(Bazongaloid, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:11, Reply)

they're not allowed to vote on Strictly either are they?

( glued eel /questions/questionsyoudliketoask/post1648081, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:43, Reply)

i'd like to see eric pickles campaigning for votes in a prison.

( The Doveston haunted by the memory of his own amnesia, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:48, Reply)

I'm torn
but mostly I think that if people inside believe they are inside unfairly they should be able to vote for a party the agrees that they should be released. Not so long ago you could be banged up for buggery. Perhaps those people thought "I want to vote for a lefty hippy party that will decide bumming people is OK and let me out"

So yes I guess I think everyone should have the vote and the voting age should be lowered.
( Peej, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:49, Reply)

Which constiuencey will they vote in?
The political cross section of the Isle of White will change pretty radically I should think. The first MP representing the shit in a bucket party.

Mind you, having been to the Isle, that's not much of an improvment.
( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:51, Reply)

I think the idea is they vote in the constituency where they were last resident.
like a postal vote.
(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:53, Reply)

Damn, I could do with a laugh.

( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:04, Reply)

I donno if anyone is interested, but you can get 6 bottles of champaign for £8.15 each here.
www.moneysavingexpert.com/deals/cheap-champagne-sparkling-wine
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:54, Reply)

6 bottles of particularly shit Champagne too

( Peej, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:03, Reply)

I don't.
Take Dartmoor, prison population about 600, total population less than 50,000. In theory, the inmates could have a significant vote in who represents the region.
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:54, Reply)

Nah it's where they come from originally.

(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:55, Reply)

But all wrong 'uns are darkies from over the water.
Or so Monty told me.
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:56, Reply)

He is a wise man. You should wrissen to him.

(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:59, Reply)

Did you treat Lusty to the full lunch with Stunned experience?

( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:01, Reply)

He did

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:11, Reply)

You'll be cooking your own dinner this evening then.

( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:13, Reply)

who said that?
are you just making this up as you go along?
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:56, Reply)

www.google.com/url?q=http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/briefings/snpc-01764.pdf&sa=U&ei=x-aHUKywA6Ke0QX6kIDoAQ&ved=0CBgQFjAB&usg=AFQjCNGARid5AH8oDY5i6s4mZmQ_U0UKPA
(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:02, Reply)

yeah, let them vote.
most of us have committed a few crimes in our time, even if not major. trying to create an arbitrary line between criminals and 'normal decent people' is bollocks. more devicive bullshit, along the same lines as painitng OAPs as 'drains on society' and the unemployed as scroungers
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:56, Reply)

yeah, no line at all between a convicted nonce and you.

( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 13:58, Reply)

not all prisoners ar nonces, most of them aren't
some probably went down for doing things I've done but not been caught for. iF committing a crime makes you ineligible to vote, then Boyce definitely doesn't get one.

or is it just being caught?
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:00, Reply)

no, you're right. most prisoners are fine people.
using monty boyce to boost your argument. fucking hell.
of course that prick shouldn't be allowed to vote.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:02, Reply)

What about people who speed?
Drive drunk? Lie on a mortgage application?
(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:03, Reply)

yeah, drink driving is just a minor offence. no real problems there.
people who lie on a mortgage application?? so, what, the bank forecloses their mortgage and they go down for ten years.
you're such a trolling shit. I HATE you.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:05, Reply)

no, but most people aren't fine people either
getting sent down does not mean you cross some magic line and stop being a person, there are worse people out of jail (boyce for one) and probably a few perfectly decent people in jail. it's not a meaningful deviding line, unless you like the world to be just nice short words and primary colours and read the daily mail.

i'd be in favour of having to pass a fitness test to vote, in or out of prison.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:09, Reply)

you are a fucking idiot and don't deserve to fucking breathe.

( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:10, Reply)

oddly I was thinking much the same of you sunshine. :)

( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:13, Reply)

when you can form a coherent argument that isn't obtuse for the sake of it, then you can breathe again.
I wouldn't not hold your breath though.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:15, Reply)

How is his argument worse than
THEY ARE IN PRISON NUFF SAID
which seems to be the only point you've made in the dozen or so posts you've made in this thread.
(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:17, Reply)

well his argument tried to involve emotive points on "good" versus "bad" for who should get the vote.
voting is not a right, it is a privilege awarded to you by the queen. I don't like it but that's how it is.
criminals lose the right to vote because their actions damage society to some degree and they are being removed from society, with all the privileges that go with it.
to say that prisoners should vote merely because some people have committed crimes but not been caught is kinda shit. like qc.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:23, Reply)

CQ old boy
anyway, I'll leave my side of the argument to chomp, he's more than capable and I have work to do.

he's right though i'd have expected a less shit argument from you. :(
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:31, Reply)

trumps your "argument" flouncy.
at least chompy can be arsed to try and put a point of view across.
the trolling shit.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:39, Reply)

yes, he, can hence why I am, leaving him to do it.
it's more than I have time or energy to do and he cares more and does it better.

you don't even have an argument to speak of.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:55, Reply)

Let them vote, but they'll have to get to the polling station like everyone else

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:02, Reply)

What about those nonce cases.
Would you let them go to a primary school and put a tick in a box?
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:03, Reply)

You missed the point
They're in jail so couldn't get to a polling station anyway
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:01, Reply)

Other people can also vote by post
e.g. the housebound, but you have to apply beforehand iirc.
(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:06, Reply)

Let 'em vote.
They couldn't do a worse job of choosing our next government than we did of the last one.

in fact, let ONLY prisoners vote and see what we end up with.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:04, Reply)

Look, the problem is, if you give them the vote,
then part of any campaign will be directed at prisoners. And that doesn't sit easy with me.
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:08, Reply)

18 year olds have the vote, but they're ignored by every major party.

(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:09, Reply)

When I have a party I sure don't ignore 'em
/SameasSavile
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:11, Reply)

that's because they fall into a target group you dick.
that's like saying every party ignores 33 year olds.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:12, Reply)

In what way, specifically?

(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:12, Reply)

Drug reform even a small bit is a bit vote winner for under 25s
Tuition fees and university access is probably the main issue for 18 year olds.
(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:15, Reply)

fuck sake chompy.
Now you're being an idiot.
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:18, Reply)

When politicians have tried to 'engage' with the youth
it has, without exception, made for the most embarrassing TV ever.
(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:48, Reply)

Another news link
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20008687

Surprised?
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:15, Reply)

A fairly simple distinction could be that anyone who is sentenced to over 5 years loses the right to vote
since they will definitely be inside during a general election.

But anything less and it's purely arbitrary timing wise from when they start their sentence as to whether they would miss an election so you could let them keep the vote.

Problem solved, lets move on.
(Bazongaloid, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:17, Reply)

There is another suggestion which makes sense to me.
Is that the Judge while sentencing can decide to revoke the right to vote from the convict.
(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:19, Reply)

Based on what criteria?

(Bazongaloid, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:20, Reply)

No idea, that'll have to be sorted out.
But at least it takes away an arbitary line for it and puts it into a more case by case basis.
(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:21, Reply)

That risks a whole mess of appeals when people who are convicted of similar crimes get treated differently though.

( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:21, Reply)

Nah, if someone gets convicted for rape and gets 6 years
they can't appeal that someone else got 5.
(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:22, Reply)

Specifically, no you're right.
But this is a different issue to length of sentence. These would be appeals on Human Rights grounds.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:28, Reply)

Now you'll have different grounds for appeal
People will be appealing not on the length of their sentence, but on being refused the right to vote.

Congratulations Chompy, you've just thought of a way of making one of the most tortuous legal systems in the word even more ridiculous.
(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:53, Reply)

Well then just let them have a fucking vote.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:54, Reply)

How about we let our own government decide how we treat our own prisoners
rather than listening to some shower of Euro-wanks.
(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:00, Reply)

See chompy's point below about our own government signing up to the European Convention on Human Rights.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:10, Reply)

This would be in line with the EU I think.
Would that be 5 years sentenced or 5 years actual time inside?
To do 5 years inside you'd have to have been sentenced to 10 or more, these days.
(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:22, Reply)

Bollocks.
It's about eligibility for parole, it's not automatic 50% off prison time. Newspapers lie to you.
(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:23, Reply)

I thought I'd google this to see what the average difference between sentenced and served was.
I got distracted by the fact that one of the first results is people asking 'What is the difference between consecutive and concurrent sentencing'.

Fuck me. THOSE are the people that shouldn't be allowed to vote.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:25, Reply)

Are you suggesting some sort of intelligence test
that has to be passed before you're allowed to vote?
Wonder how many MPs would pass...
(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:32, Reply)

No, not really I'm not.
As tempting as the idea is sometimes, I don't actually believe in it.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:33, Reply)

I see that Paul Jewell has left Ipswich Town.
Do you think he should still be allowed to vote in the future? I mean, they are still bottom of the Championship.
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:28, Reply)

what I want to know is how failed managers continue to get jobs.
the last decent job he did was at bradford, what 10 years ago?
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:30, Reply)

Jewell is still living off what he did at Wigan.

( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:33, Reply)

he's completly shit.
and ipswich are well fucked now.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:34, Reply)

If you are to be rehabilitated back into society, then it makes sense to try to keep some involvement with that society.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:31, Reply)

Fuck off Hippy.

( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:33, Reply)

Balls
Imprisonment is supposed to be a form of punishment. Losing your right to vote is one of the side effects.
(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:55, Reply)

Punishment is obviously an important part of it.
But it is pointless if you don't attempt to reform these people.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:57, Reply)

Here's an idea
Why don't we get rids of prisons altogether? We can just give all the naughty people a slap on the wrist and tell them not to do it again.

All the money saved can be spent on cake and kittums.

Who's with me?
(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:02, Reply)

This is pretty much equivalent to allowing prisoners a right to vote, yes.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:06, Reply)

I'm delighted you've seen sense.

(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:09, Reply)

Cake yes, kittums no
We'd be overrun with the buggers.
(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:10, Reply)

The whole point of imprisoning somebody is to remove their rights and privileges
as a member of society. That is the punishment that society deems appropriate for the crimes committed. The right or privilege to vote should therefore also be removed for the period of their incarceration and restored along with the rest on their release.

If somebody does not go to prison, they do not have their right to vote removed.

There. Problem solved. Everybody can go back to talking about food now.
( Kroney, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:36, Reply)

The whole point?
What about rehabilitation?
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:37, Reply)

Yes, that is what prison does.
All those people that come out of prison are much less likely to reoffend.

You are such a hippie.
( Kroney, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:38, Reply)

You forgot the \sarcasm tag

(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:39, Reply)

You think the solution to this is to further alienate them from society?
And yes, I am.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:40, Reply)

I think that if you're going to remove somebody from society as a punishment
then you should remove them from society. If you don't think that's a fair punishment, then don't imprison them.

Whether imprisoning somebody is fair or not is a different argument.
( Kroney, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:41, Reply)

What about visiting rights?
Phone calls?
(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:46, Reply)

What about them?
You can't stop them an ordinary prisoner speaking to their family, that's solitary confinement. You stop those if they end up in solitary. You remove their civil rights, not their human rights, in prison and voting is a civil right.
( Kroney, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:48, Reply)

Not according to the highest court in the EU

(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:53, Reply)

How about the highest court in the UK?
Because you'll find that we don't necessarily follow the EU in all things and we've shown by our actions as a country that we don't agree with the EU being the final arbiter on what happens to our citizens so, really, saying that the highest court in the EU disagrees is as useful as saying the highest court in the US or Namibia disagrees i.e. not at all.
( Kroney, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:56, Reply)

We're not a ratified signatory to any US or Namibian legal system.

(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:58, Reply)

If the EU allows their prisoners to vote and we don't
then we haven't ratified or signed anything that gives the EU the right to tell us how our prisoners should vote, or not.
( Kroney, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:00, Reply)

We have signed up to abide by the european court of human rights judgments.
Not letting prisoners the vote, isn't just saying "our problem not yours" it's breaking an international treaty we signed. It's not the end of the world, no, but it's not simply ignoring someone who has no authority.
(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:03, Reply)

I don't intend to comment on whether or history of picking and choosing
which parts of signed European agreements that we actually follow is right or not, I'm just pointing out that we've decided not to follow this one so it's the UK high court, not the EU one that's salient when discussing UK prisoners.
( Kroney, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:06, Reply)

Well because a high court ruling has been overturned by the court of human rights
it's obviously the court of human rights that counts.
(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:10, Reply)

Apparently it doesn't.

( Kroney, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:13, Reply)

I doubt the EU looks kindly on rendition either
still happened though.
(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:05, Reply)

Do you not think it prudent to prepare them for a life outside of prison for when they are released?
Then maybe they might stand a chance of not reoffending.
I never said anything about not imprisoning offenders or it not being fair. I'm just pointing out that there are (theoretically, at least) two strands to our criminal justice system - punishment and rehabilitation.
Otherwise you might as well just take the American approach and lock people away for as long as possible.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:46, Reply)

They get taught trades in jail.
I don't see how this is applicable. Prison is prison, it is not a holiday camp. They have their civil rights removed for crimes against society.
( Kroney, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:49, Reply)

They have their freedom removed.
And they are taught trades as part of the rehabilitation program.
What purpose does removing a civil right, such as the right to vote, have anyway?
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:56, Reply)

If you're going down that road, then what purpose does removing their freedom of movement serve?
By putting them in prison you are, as a society, stating that this person is undesirable and does not deserve to be a free member of society. I'd say the freedom to vote and thereby have a say in the direction the country takes is a pretty big part of being a free member of society.
( Kroney, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:58, Reply)

I'm not going down that road.
My point is that the removal of freedom is already the punishment part of it, so why is there any need to add further punishment?
By putting them in prison we are stating that this is their punishment and not all of these undesirable people receive custodial sentences.
Prisoners are still a part of society. They are still there and likely to return.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:03, Reply)

So what about the right to sit on a jury?
Do you think cons should be allowed to be called up for jury service?
(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:13, Reply)

Enough with the logical fallacies already.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:22, Reply)

Too many straw men in this argument.

( Kroney, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:27, Reply)

yes, as far as possible while they are in jail.
get them to fuck off to australia perhaps.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:42, Reply)

So you send all the nonces off to Australia
Where does that leave poor Poppet when Battered steps off the plane, eh?
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:11, Reply)

They're less likely to reoffend than people who don't get caught.

(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:44, Reply)

Perhaps, but that's really not what the discussion is about.
If you're going to imprison somebody and take away their rights as a free citizen, then that is what you should do.
( Kroney, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:46, Reply)

"That is the punishment that society deems appropriate "
And that, right there, is the issue. What if society doesn't deem it appropriate? And I think there's a fair case to be made that it might not.

In case it's not clear among the crap I've been saying, I'm on the side of prisoners being allowed to vote in certain circumstances.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:39, Reply)

If society doesn't deem it appropriate, then imprisoning people for committing crimes
should be stopped. That, however, is not what the discussion is about.
( Kroney, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:40, Reply)

That wasn't really my point actually, I may have made it badly.
The point you seem to be making is that 'this is what prison does and that's the end of the matter because it's what society deems appropriate'

The point I was hamfistedly trying to counter with was 'what if society doesn't actually think that taking someone off the streets for whatever reason should automatically mean they lose their right to vote'.

Prisoners don't have 'all' their rights removed anyway, so it becomes a question of where the punishment should end and the rehabilitation should begin. I happen to think that anything that keeps a prisoner who is going to be released actively interested in the outside world is likely to help reduce the risk of them reoffending. A person released back into a world that feels totally alien to them is likely to be less inclined to integrate with it than one who has been allowed to play a part, however small, in shaping it.

And that's the end of me being serious for today.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:42, Reply)

I do happen to think it should be a pretty black and white case, yes.
Removal of civil liberties. I'm not advocating removing *all* of their rights as a human being, but there's a difference between removal of civil righs and liberties and removing their basic rights as a human.

People are clouding the waters between the two things.
( Kroney, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:54, Reply)

Hanging's too good

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:05, Reply)

It must be nice to be so confident in your view of how things houl db e.

( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:07, Reply)

It is, yes. It is, however, only my view of how things should be.

( Kroney, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:08, Reply)

Has the BBC learnt nothing from the last week?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20042508
(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:39, Reply)

if porn's not real then what the hell have they been putting in all those women, eh?
cos i've seen it with my own eyes man, it can't all be CGI
(quintsy, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:41, Reply)

well how else are chick going to learn how to take 7 big black cocks?

( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:44, Reply)

practice

(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:49, Reply)

not really fair to make a young girl turn up to a gang bang without knowing what to expect.

( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:50, Reply)

They should ask their parents about it.

(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:56, Reply)

*insert "your mum" joke here
joke

+ into
(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 14:58, Reply)

Bloody warm out, I've had to strip off to my t shirt
Might go for a pint in the pub garden
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:04, Reply)

Nakers,
Don't start.
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:07, Reply)

Stripping?

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:11, Reply)

You've got a filthymind young man.
A filthy mind.
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:12, Reply)

Only cos I was bogwashed so many times at school : (

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:13, Reply)

I never once had my head stuck in the toilet,
nor did I ever flush anyone elses head down the toilet. Therefore, I don't believe the practice existed.
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:15, Reply)

Nakers went to public school.
As a 'fag' he repeatedly had his head stuck down the toilet in the interests of 'character building'.
Unfortunately the character it built was that of a bent spastic.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:21, Reply)

They really shouldn't have held him underwater for 6 minutes

( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:24, Reply)

n't
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:25, Reply)

I'd remove your right to vote.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:09, Reply)

I'd remove your molars, see how that vegetarian diet works now

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:10, Reply)

I imagine that it is easier to puree vegetables than meat.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:12, Reply)

You clearly haven't seen "Saw IV"

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:14, Reply)

Nor have I seen Saws I, II or III
In fact, there is a great deal of popular culture that has passed me by.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:19, Reply)

I've read most of this thread,
and this is the first statement that I think we can all agree with.
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:10, Reply)

I really bring everyone together

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:12, Reply)

I reckon this thread has run its course.
Chompy is just trying to wind us up by being obtuse, some are liberal wackos, others are conservative staypennies, we won't resolve this argument, and I seriously doubt anyone is brave enough to try for a serious debste on it, as the back lash from both camps will be stupid, as it always is with this sort of dive question. So let's all just go back to moaning about taxes and the price of cheese, and leave the big issues to slip through under the net, while the media try and oust every major celebrity of the last 40 years as a bunch of filthy sex pests.
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:14, Reply)

Or we could go to the pub

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:15, Reply)

I'm already in the pub.

( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:15, Reply)

I really want to go to the pub.

(PsychoChomp, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:15, Reply)

I am now in the pub

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:24, Reply)

I think I threw Monty out of my pub last night

( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:24, Reply)

+ with the drip trays

(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:29, Reply)

Yep, I vote for pub too.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:19, Reply)

What's a staypenny?

( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:23, Reply)

someone who resists change.

( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:23, Reply)

So, a conservative then

( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:25, Reply)

Well, yes,
i suppose, but i like the term staypenny.
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:27, Reply)

How you keep Ms Lancaster from running away.

(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:28, Reply)

I've said this many times, but I don't deserve the right to vote.
I haven't educated myself enough in the matter; I have not done my civic deuty to be made aware of the facts and form a viewpoint. I do not deserve to power to influence the matter.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:25, Reply)

why is it your job to go learn about it?

( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:28, Reply)

Thread of the week

( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:20, Reply)

I saw this show about youth prisons around the world.
And the one with the least likely to reoffend was a turkish one, where they went to work in a factory all day, got taught skills, it was like a little society that issolated from the big one. Where as by contrast, the worst one was a brazilian one which was like 100 people to a cell with rape and all kinds of shit.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:23, Reply)

So from that, I conclude that it is better to rehabilitate than punish.
But saying that, I'm not a victim.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:23, Reply)

which is the one where they did the michael jackson dance,
and more recently the Gangnam one, that looked like a fun place?
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:24, Reply)

I ain't seen the gangnam one, but I think the MJ one was philipeens.
One of the non-major oriental ones anyway.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:25, Reply)

See, the Turkish example I would be right alongside.
That sounds perfect.
( Kroney, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:26, Reply)

It was many years ago when I watched it
But there was a threat of going to a normal prison if they fuck up.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:29, Reply)

"Have you ever been to a Turkish Prison, Billy?"
airplanelolz
( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 16:28, Reply)

I agree with Chompy.

(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:24, Reply)

Oooh that'll upset his argument.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:25, Reply)

NEW THREAD!

( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Wed 24 Oct 2012, 15:28, Reply)