Life after death
Discuss.


And no getting into God.
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 10:59, 219 replies, latest was 16 years ago)

Seems unlikely

( Colonel Dracula Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:00, Reply)

Why?
Not saying I don't agree...but why?
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:02, Reply)

Ok
Why spend 70 odd years as a mortal and then an eternity floating around as something else?

Does everyone who ever lived get to float around in the ether? What about other animals? If not, what about Neandethals or Cromagnion (sp?) and other early forms of human.

Once I stopped believing in religious dogma, everything else seemed like nonsense as well.
( Colonel Dracula Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:08, Reply)

No thanks.
One is enough for me.
(Miraclefish How appropriate, you fight like a cow, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:02, Reply)

But is it? Is it really?
It goes awfully fast.
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:03, Reply)

Life isn't short
It's the longest thing I'm ever going to do...
(Miraclefish How appropriate, you fight like a cow, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:08, Reply)

You've obviously not sat through Eclipse

( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:08, Reply)

I had a dream where I was gradually disappearing as I died.
The nothingness was surrounding me and eating me.
I finally had the answer, and I didn't want it.

I guess that's why we probably invented life after death, for our fragile egos.

In saying that, whenever I'm in trouble, I ask my deceased great-grandma to mind me, and she always does.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:03, Reply)

your fragile ego comment is pretty accurate I'd say
people can't grasp how insignificant they are.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:04, Reply)

I can't believe you said that
I imagine you refer to other people, not yourself.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:06, Reply)

I know perfectly well how insignificant I am in the grand scheme of things
not to those who know and love me, but on a universal scale it would be massively conceited to think that any of us has any effect on anything.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:08, Reply)

Well put.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:11, Reply)

Really
Like Einstein (to name one) didn't have any effect on anything? Do you think his life would have been the same withouht the other insingnificant lifes around his? A little change and he might have not have done all what he did. A little change and he might have done more.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:11, Reply)

Einstein's utterly insignificant to:
The vast majority of everyone who came before him.
Pretty much every other type of lifeform other than humans.
Intergalactic Space Dogs.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:14, Reply)

Einstien won't stop a star going supernova in another galaxy.

(PsychoChomp, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:15, Reply)

Intergalactic Space Dogs will though.

(TheColonel, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:16, Reply)

Maybe something he found out
will help someone in the future to do it.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:22, Reply)

^this
dinosaurs existed for a shitload longer than humanity has (and probably will) and we don't feel the affect of them, other than in museums and in the cinema.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:16, Reply)

They didn't develop their brains as we did, I think
and you don't know for how much longer humanity is going to be here (or somewhere else)
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:23, Reply)

I strongly suspect it won't be as long as the dinosaurs were around
unless something unpredictable happens. Unfortunately the unpredictable is weighted heavily in favour of something happening that will fuck us over.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:25, Reply)

Well, the way I see it
Dinosaurs were here a lot longer than us, however, they didn't achieve a tiny fraction of what we have. The reason we move forwards is a collective achievment. There are some bright heads and brave hearts that we remember more, but the environment were they grow up, the other insignificant people around them, made them what they were.

I don't think we're as fucked as some people want us to believe. I think we have time to change and improve things.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:33, Reply)

Raaaar.

( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:36, Reply)

the universe is something like 13 billion years old
and contains an absurd number of galaxies and planets and whatnot. On that scale, the achievements of one man, or any of the people connected to him have no bearing on anything.

I'm not denying the importance of the actions of an individual on us as a species, but we are such a small part of the whole of everything.

Even if the entire history of mankind had been radically different it would still only have affected things basically on the surface (and slightly above) of one tiny planet in one solar system in one galaxy.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:15, Reply)

this sums it up nicely using the media of comedy and song
www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWVshkVF0SY
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:19, Reply)

You cannot know that
As you don't know how we're changing the future of the universe.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:24, Reply)

the universe is so unimaginably large
that our actions simply can't be affecting it in any significant way.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:25, Reply)

Again
You cannot know that. You can guess and assume that. But you'll never know (unless there's life after dead and we get to see the future, coming back to the thread)
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:34, Reply)

we can never know
but it's a far more likely assumption. If there is life after death and we see that that has happened, then I'll find you and buy (or equivalent) you a drink (or equivalent)!
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:40, Reply)

Aren't we just like cats or dogs?
They don't grasp the idea of the internet or the universe but it's around them and in their lives.
What's around us that we don't have the brain capacity to understand or even see?
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:42, Reply)

I think so
And I trully hope we get to understand everything after dead, even if it's only for a millisecond, I want everything to make sense.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:48, Reply)

I want to know who killed JFK.
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:54, Reply)

OK!
I really hope that is what comes after death. I don't want another life, I want to be able to see and understand everything.

Have you read The Light of Other Days, by C. Clarke? That is so much my desired future!
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:48, Reply)

It's my best chat-up line
"Hey baby, ever realised how futile your existence is? Fancy sitting on my face?"
(TheColonel, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:12, Reply)

I agree
I think we are incredibly insignificant but all think we're important. It's like when someone has one of those past life regressions done - always Cleopatra. Never, ever some toilet cleaner from Macclesfield.
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:06, Reply)

Would it not be fun if Cleopatra believed that she was a toilet cleaner from Macclesfield?

( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:08, Reply)

Oi!
I've told you, I'm not a toilet cleaner, the term is Sanitation Consultant.

But yes, I am in Macclesfield
( Agnostic Antichrist Baltimora, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:13, Reply)

Alright Cleo!
;)
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:14, Reply)

Haha

( Agnostic Antichrist Baltimora, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:27, Reply)

This much is true
I'm actually quite ok with it, but then I find the idea of fate and pre-determinism ridiculous. I much prefer the thought that life on a whole is chaotic and random, with no proof to support a life-after-death theory.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:07, Reply)

If you think life is not pre-determined, caothic and random
then you can't believe at the same time that we are all insignificant, because every little thing we do, will have an effect in the future.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:13, Reply)

Individually our lives will have thousands of 'knock on' effects, yes
But in the grand scope of the universe throughout time, these will have excruciatingly little significance (although I concede that they will have some, so not strictly insignificant).
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:15, Reply)

That you don't know
It could be that in the grand scope of the universe we'll be the greatest race ever, and we'll bring peace and technology to the whole of the space and time.

Unlikely, but you don't know. So your life is very important, because making the most of it, living it to the full and giving as much as you can, you make our race better.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:18, Reply)

This could be true
I'm not going to piss my life away because I believe I have very little significance to the universe, I'm going to piss it away because it's fun and I'm not that clever.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:20, Reply)

Ours lives are very important to us obviously
they are all we have, so should enjoy them as much as possible (which I am attempting to do) but given the size of the universe and the probability, I can't believe that we are the only planet with intelligent life. I'm not saying I think we'll ever be contacted by it, because that is almost as unlikely as there not being any others, but I strongly doubt we'll be the greatest race ever.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:21, Reply)

Well
I wonder what would have happened if the great people of the past had decided they didn't give a fuck and didn't fight for a better life, didn't keep on doing research... Our lifes would know be probably like those of the humans thousands of years ago.

Don't you wonder what we'll be able to do, given enough time, to the rest of the Universe? Don't you really believe we can be a great race?
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:30, Reply)

What Vipros and I are saying about insignificance
Does not mean we advocate people do nothing. We just have this life, it'd be stupid not to make it the best it can be, for everyone.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:32, Reply)

nice and succinct

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:35, Reply)

So if you make it better for someone else
your life is not insignificant anymore. And on top of that, you don't know what repercusions your acts have on the future.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:35, Reply)

There are different levels of significance.
There's what's significant to you, to people you know, to strangers, to the world, to the universe etc.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:36, Reply)

No, it's still insignificant
everyone you ever meet or know will die, every bit of information we ever record will burn and the universe won't even notice.
(PsychoChomp, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:36, Reply)

yes

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:37, Reply)

You might be forgotten
That's not the same as being insignificant. Your action might have triggered something that will make the future better. Maybe that person you helped recovered faith in humanity and started to work towards something that will be great. Your name will never be there, but if you hadn't helped that person, she/he wouldn't have done that great thing that improved our race.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:40, Reply)

Until a black hole swallows you up
or our galaxy crashes into another or any of our local stars go supernova. Then everyone dies, everything gets fried and there is literally no trace of what once was.
(PsychoChomp, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:42, Reply)

We might have moved into another galaxy by then
We might have found out how to control supernovas.

We might be all dead, but we might not. Whatever we do today will decide our future.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:44, Reply)

Intergalactic travel is never going to happen I'm afraid.

(PsychoChomp, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:46, Reply)

unfortuantely true
they are just too fucking far away
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:48, Reply)

That's why people laughed at Columbus
We only need the knowledge and time.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:50, Reply)

we'd need to be able to fundamentally bugger about with the laws of physics and space-time

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:53, Reply)

Well, sort of
Space-time travel is not explicitly forbidden by current physics. It's just that the energies required and the length scales involved are phenomenally large and incredibly small respectively.
( K2k6 has a proper job these days, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:00, Reply)

was trying not to get too sciency :-P

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:01, Reply)

I'm very sciency by nature!

( K2k6 has a proper job these days, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:02, Reply)

me too, but I try not to let on

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:06, Reply)

Just think of all the people who tried to get humans to fly
and how many more laughed at them or "proved" it impossible.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:13, Reply)

~2,500,000 light years away
If we can go faster than the speed of light, which isn't even mathmatically or theoretically possible at the moment, that's still a long time before we get there.
(PsychoChomp, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:54, Reply)

Or we find a wormhole
I know, I know. But it could be.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:56, Reply)

nearest one is 25k light years
Andromeda is the nearest spiral at 2.5 million
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:01, Reply)

what we are talking about is getting further apart now
within the context of the human race one person's actions can be significant, but on the universal scale they aren't.

To bring it back to life after death, my view is that as we are such a small and insignificant part of the universe why would we be singled out for such a thing? unless it is a side-effect of consciousness, but then where do you draw the line. Would all animals be there? Just us, dolhpins and chimps and the like? How about aliens?

I certainly don't think that there can be an afterlife in the religious sense as that would imply that we are somehow special amongst the vastness of everything, and that is just massively egomaniacal.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:45, Reply)

Ok, well
You have to admit that we are somehow special. To start with, we're having this conversation. No other animal considers anything like this.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:51, Reply)

oh yeah, I find our existence amazing
I'm a stoner don't forget ;-)
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:54, Reply)

:-D
I keep hoping. I think we can do a lot.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:56, Reply)

I find things like the way our skin works fascinating
hands as well. good stuff.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:58, Reply)

The more I learnt at school about white cells
and how they protect us, the more amazed I was that we were alive :)
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:03, Reply)

How do we know that other great apes don't consider this?
Or dolphins?
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:56, Reply)

There are other reasons why we differ
even if you want to believe they have conciousness and they think about themselves as individuals, they don't modify their habitat to make their life easier, not in a big scale (I don't think they do it even in a small scale) and they act without considering what'll happen in the future.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:04, Reply)

Beavers modify their environment.
Heheh beavers.
(wellgroomedwookiee is a filthy-minded hobgoblin, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:18, Reply)

it's significant on a small scale
what we're getting at is that the human scale is totally insignificant when compared to the rest of the universe.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:37, Reply)

I believe we can be a great race within the limits that we exist.
I don't believe people should stop striving to better themselves or our civilisation, because we have to make the most of what we have and to try and perpetuate ourselves and so forth, but I also don't harbour any doubts that beyond our small sphere of influence we will have no impact.

I absolutely think that we could achieve amazing things, but only when measured at an appropriate scale.

When viewed against the sheer enormity of the rest of everything it's my opinion that trying to think we matter is absurd.

Fortunately it is also irrelevant, so there isn't really any point in thinking about it, other than as an interesting philosophical exercise.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:34, Reply)

Yep, but I like this exercise
(although you lost me with a few fancy words, up there)

Give us a couple of billions of years and we might have expanded through half of the universe.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:37, Reply)

we might
and I'm totally in support of it. I'm just not holding my breath in anticipation ;-)

thoroughly enjoying the discussion. which words lost you?
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:39, Reply)

I like being able to discuss these things without
a) being called a freak/nerd
b) getting the other person upset and shouting at me :)

I'm not holding my breath either, but I really hope so. And I really believe that our acts today will have an effect on the future, somehow. Sometimes a big effect, sometimes just something small, but they do.

Striving and harbour, but I think I got the general meaning.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:43, Reply)

I love discussions like this
It's why I studied Philosophy.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:46, Reply)

yeah, me too
it's why I studied civil engineering....

I was saying to my mrs the other day that I really miss this sort of discussion, it's the sort of thing I used to do with mates at uni and stuff all day/night, and these days I only really get it on here.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:47, Reply)

At some LARPs, when people are drinking around a campfire early in the morning
I like to kick off debates about fate vs free will, and just watch people talk, chipping in here and there with counter arguments to keep things flowing.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:51, Reply)

I miss them a lot too
We had compulsory Phylosophy at school for 2 years (17 and 18 years old). I wanted to be an engineer, so I didn't study it any longer, but kept reading some good books.

Those 2 years we'd spend the day on the beach, singing and discussing about life and humanity. Great times.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:53, Reply)

well, we are all quite freaky and nerdy
I don't tend to get upset, unless someone is being absolutely wrong and won't accept it. In this sort of discussion it's hard to be dead wrong.

striving = working towards
harbour = have
:-)
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:47, Reply)

Ta-ra
I had the meaning right!

Yep, and if someone gets upset I can just switch this thing off.

My friends were all a bit close minded, but I loved so much to make them think different, even if I wasn't really sure of what I was saying :P
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:55, Reply)

nice work :-)
that's true

I don't tend to argue anyway. Been with my mrs for 6 years and we've never argued, we've had disagreements, but not what I'd call an argument.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:57, Reply)

Oh I've had arguments
My girlfriend likes to win such discussions, even when there can't be a 'winner'.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:58, Reply)

was talking about this with my mate the other day
I'd had a number of beers and jagers and spliffs and came to the conclusion that it's a result of being too laid back and too right :-D
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:00, Reply)

:D
I don't argue about these things, as nobody can win. I get upset about more material things, I'm affraid.

I used to discuss with that crazy poet boyfriend I had (the one that stopped the cars) because he was far too pesimist without a reason.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:07, Reply)

I only occasionally argue with my mum
That's it.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:01, Reply)

no you don't

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:02, Reply)

Yes i fucking do!
Shit.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:04, Reply)

I ask my grandma to look after me too
and it works. It might be my mind playing tricks, but it works, so I'll keep doing it.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:07, Reply)

Dayum!
You have some intense dreams. That said I had one the other night where I gradually went blind, I think it was because of an interview with Sue Townsend I'd read.

I think the invention of an afterlife is to do with the uncertainty and apparent pointlessness in life, people like to think there's a plan and a goal. But I think it's also worthwhile recognising that if it is largely pointless then you shouldn't take things too seriously, try and enjoy it and 'fart-about' as Vonnegut put it.
(Zoz prayed for twink on, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:22, Reply)

Yup

( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:28, Reply)

I'm ready for oblivion.
I'm quite looking forward to it.
( girlinthehole, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:04, Reply)

Me too - roll on this evening....

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:06, Reply)

So soon?
It's been nice knowing you Monty.
( girlinthehole, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:07, Reply)

No it hasn't - don't lie.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:10, Reply)

Haha!
Just face it Monty. We like you and there is nothing you can do about it.
( girlinthehole, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:17, Reply)

Hold up mate, at least wait 'till I've made your posh recipy. It would be quite gutting not to find out if it's any good.

( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:19, Reply)

Nah
when we're dead we're dead.
(PsychoChomp, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:05, Reply)

Well
If there is no "God" or any superior being who's made us; if we're just a coincidence, then quite certainly, there isn't life after death.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:05, Reply)

No sensible evidence
has ever been provided for such an idea - which in itself seems so enormously improbable to me I discount it without more than a moment's thought.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:06, Reply)

I have to think that the end is the end.
There is no other logical explanation.
( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:06, Reply)

I'd like to believe in reincarnation
I think the idea of going through mortal bodies until you get it right is a good one. I'll ignore the fact that it's implausible, I just want to come back as a panther.
( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:09, Reply)

I want to come back as you
I'd be much better at it.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:11, Reply)

hahaha
unusual burn, I like it
( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:15, Reply)

I'd like to believe it, too.
Unfortunately logic dictates that I cannot.

I studied Buddhism, and apparently the worst thing to come back as, is an anvil.

a) what?
b) way to keep up with the modern world you spastics.

Ignoring the obviously-bollocks reincarnation thing Buddhism is a decent philosophical system, I thought.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:14, Reply)

I follow Buddhism for the most part
because it just makes sense. However, it stipulates not eating meat and not putting any toxins into your body, so that's me out. It's the only religion that comes close to just being a normal moral compass though. I wanted to read the Buddhist scriptures until I realised there were like 30,000 of them.
( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:16, Reply)

I follow a moral code of my own
Something that seems to me to be at the base of most religions. The 'Do unto others' thought.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:19, Reply)

So you've given up all material wants and desires?

( Colonel Dracula Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:19, Reply)

I doubt she understood 10% of it.

(PsychoChomp, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:30, Reply)

^this has really pissed me off
well done.
( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:37, Reply)

Excellent.

(PsychoChomp, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:40, Reply)

Sounds as if I've been an undercover Buddhist for a long time then
/non-materialistic hippy
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:35, Reply)

that's why I said for the most part

( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:37, Reply)

I think
That we're no different to any other life form - cells, molecules and all that stuff. All of them change over time - nothing disappears as such but simply changes state. So it makes sense that when we die we change state - rot. Or burn. Either way, that's it in the same way that it is for a rose or a leaf.

However, what about the stuff we can't quantify? Our thoughts and brain activity? It's electrical impulses (I'm on dodgy ground here as I'm no scientist) but where does that energy go? All the other stuff gets converted but what about the stuff we can't see?
I can't see electricity but I know it's there.
I'm sure there is a rational explanation for this - I certainly don't think there is some afterlife - as nice as that might be I think this is it and once it's done, it's done.
But still...where does all that energy in our heads go?
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:12, Reply)

All that energy is reduced to heat and radiates away.

( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:14, Reply)

You're probably right
but the complexities of that energy...all that it's capable of...and just turned into heat?

Isn't that also suspiciously close to some primitive religions that worship the sun?
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:17, Reply)

Woshipping the Sun makes a hell of a lot more sense than most modern religions to me
My argument is three-fold:

There is proof the Sun exists.
The Sun's existence is beneficial to us.
I like ice lollies.
(TheColonel, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:23, Reply)

I'm with you there
the Sun is the most important thing we've got, let's worship it
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:30, Reply)

I'd rather worship the Daily Telegraph.

( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:42, Reply)

Today a young man on acid realised that all matter
is just energy condensed to a slow vabration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:17, Reply)

Showed relentless to four friends the other night.
Another four converts.
(TheColonel, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:24, Reply)

Explain, explain, explain!
Film? Sounds fascinating!
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:28, Reply)

'Relentless'
is a standup comedy DVD by comedian Bill Hicks.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:30, Reply)

Oh!
I like the bits of Hicks I've seen but I wouldn't have known the name of the DVD. Intelligent but cynical man and sometimes too many US references for me.
I'll torrent buy it.
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:37, Reply)

I thought you meant the energy drink

( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:41, Reply)

Good man!
Bill Hicks was a genius, sadly died too young.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:29, Reply)

I agree.
I don't like to band that word about too often but he was a brilliant man.
(TheColonel, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:35, Reply)

I think someone on here once said when you die you die
and likened it to being unconscious, which really stuck with me because he/she was right, when you're unconscious you don't feel anything and you have no memory of it when you wake up, so it's probably like that.

But I still want to come back as a panther.
( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:18, Reply)

a sex panther?

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:22, Reply)

60% of the time
It works every time.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:24, Reply)

It smells like Bigfoot's dick!

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:26, Reply)

that doesn't make sense

( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:41, Reply)

It's a reference to Anchorman
Which is a slightly surreal comedy film
(Miraclefish How appropriate, you fight like a cow, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:46, Reply)

it stings the nostrils

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:48, Reply)

I believe she was quoting a line from the same scene

( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:52, Reply)

I are mistaken
Oops
(Miraclefish How appropriate, you fight like a cow, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:55, Reply)

pwnt

( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:10, Reply)

I hear...
It's illegal in nine countries
(Miraclefish How appropriate, you fight like a cow, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:27, Reply)

I quite like the idea
But it's likely there's nothing there.
( Agnostic Antichrist Baltimora, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:13, Reply)

Something happens, donno what, 'cus I don't like to think of loved ones rotting in the ground and that being that.
It's part of my bubble world, it's great in there, sometimes it gets popped, it's not based on any logic outside of my head. In my dreams I can contact those people, sometimes.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:16, Reply)

Besides, more or less every religion in the world, from the mayans to modern christanity, civilisations that have never had any contact with each other, more or less all believe in it.
So I recon there must be something true there, 'cus it's to much of a coincidance that they _all_ say similar things, but haven't known each other.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:18, Reply)

They all had contact with each other at one point.
Our genetic ancestry can be traced back to one valey in africa.
Plus the other way of thinking about things like that is that we're genetically predisposed to think about life after death, not that we thought of it of totally free will.
(PsychoChomp, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:20, Reply)

If we're genetically predisposed to think about it, and even believe in it, then why?
It's not so implausable, think of a queen bee that releases fairomones when they die, 100 or 200 years ago, such things were unexplainable, in 100 years who knows what we'll explain about what we don't know today.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:24, Reply)

Depends who you ask,
evolutionary psychologists think it's an intergral part of society and so it was an advantage early in our history. Honestly we don't know yet, if it's even true let alone what the causes are.
(PsychoChomp, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:43, Reply)

It's a good motivator to get people to do bad-for-self-but-good-for-the-tribe things, certainly.

(wellgroomedwookiee is a filthy-minded hobgoblin, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:52, Reply)

Can we waffle about dog instead?
Life after death? Unless you're on Lost then yeah, its kinda shit
( fuck shit up the best you never had, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:19, Reply)

See, I say I want to be remembered
But if I'm not witnessing the gradual erosion of the memory of me, then why should I care?
I should just have the loveliest time I can, and spend my time here with the bestest people I can find.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:21, Reply)

Well you're on your way : )

( girlinthehole, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:23, Reply)

Indeed
I feel like doing something reckless now...
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:24, Reply)

Hi there!

( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:26, Reply)

If you can intercept me on my cross-country sprint to Cambridge, you're on

( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:27, Reply)

Really?
Either you've just complemented me, or you've seriously insulted yourself.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:28, Reply)

i'm now confused

( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:32, Reply)

Is this your way of saying you're leaving us?

( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:23, Reply)

So long
It's been emotional
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:24, Reply)

Best line in "Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels"

( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:25, Reply)

Ew
I feel sullied. I've never seen it.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:27, Reply)

It's not bad
Probably hasn't aged well though.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:28, Reply)

I'd say it has
it's a great film
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:38, Reply)

Not watched it since uni
As some git walked off with my DVD.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:41, Reply)

You should, there are a couple of comedy scousers in it.

( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:29, Reply)

Sartre says that once everyone who knew you dies
then you're truly dead.


Just a little bit of light philosophy there, folks.
Hoping I can get away with it as Enzyme isn't about....
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:31, Reply)

Me and my dad have discussed that very idea
Which is why I'm currently keeping alive stories and memories of people who died before I was born, and my cousins have no recollection of. I don't want them to fade away and not matter.
Like my grandad's uncle who always wore a white silk scarf and dragged a fish on a string to attract cats.
Or the lady whose pearls I'm wearing today, who once got felt up in a motor-car by a young Laurence Olivier.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:34, Reply)

Write 'em down
And then release them into the ether....
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:38, Reply)

nah
I'm just going to keep telling the stories until I die, and maybe someone will occasionally tell them after I die. And then I've messed things up, and these insignificant people will still be 'alive' long after people usually 'die'.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:42, Reply)

I've got tons of stories about my Grandparents and parents for exactly this reason.

( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:44, Reply)

I am glad for them and for you
That sounded sarky but it isn't.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:44, Reply)

He corrected my syntax on FB.
What a man.
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:35, Reply)

I like the idea of some sort of energy being released after my death and becoming one with the energy of the universe.
As long as I don't have consciousness I don't care what happens to me.
( girlinthehole, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:22, Reply)

Well, your body does tend to continue to emit gases after you die.
So that's sorted.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:25, Reply)

I hope for it
because otherwise it all seems like such a waste
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:24, Reply)

yeah

( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:25, Reply)

actually my sig
accidentally sums it up. I hate the thought that I could die tomorrow, and there simply be nothing left of anything that I was
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:27, Reply)

Me too
I really don't want to die.
i don't want anybody to have to miss me. And I dont want to go somewhere (or Nowhere) where I can't see the people I love.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:30, Reply)

I don't really care, as I hope if I'm dead I'm dead
I fear pain more than death.
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:32, Reply)

Somewhere out there, god is telling you to MTFU!

( Colonel Dracula Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:34, Reply)

Thanks, Fievel.

( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:35, Reply)

Squeak

( Colonel Dracula Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:42, Reply)

That's thinking on a very personal perspective
From an evolutionary standpoint, the point of everything is to continue the species. Eat, sleep, breed. That's it.

People have just ended up with a sense of self. Which is how, sadly, even a successful species can evolve to make Bono and Chris Martin...
(Miraclefish How appropriate, you fight like a cow, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:30, Reply)

It's not a waste.
Life isn't building up to something.

THIS IS IT.
This is what matters.
Go do something that makes you feel good.
(TheColonel, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:59, Reply)

I'd sincerely hope there's nothing
It'd be nice to get some peace.
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:28, Reply)

I quite like the simulation theory, as turned into a religion in The Algebraist by Ian M. Banks.
Basically, given that there is a better than zero chance of intelligent life in the universe, and that there is a better than zero chance of that life becoming technological, chances are that sooner or later said life will reach a state where they can run simulations containing intelligent life which cannot be distinguished (from the inside) from reality. In this case, (and assuming that such simulations don't require, say, all the matter in the universe being turned into one giant computer to run them) it's infinitely more likely that you live in a simulation than in the real universe. So maybe you'll live your life over and over again until you get it right. Maybe you're the only real person in existence and everything else is just testing you to see how you'll behave. Maybe, as in the book, once a certain percentage of the universe realises you're probably in a simulation then you'll all move on to the next level.

/geekout
(wellgroomedwookiee is a filthy-minded hobgoblin, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:46, Reply)

This is a brilliant way of persuading a scientist that we might be able to experience 'magic'
Thank you.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:48, Reply)

I read that as "I'm to cool to say 'I belive in The Matrix'" =P

( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:49, Reply)

See The Thirteenth Floor and The Matrix
and arguably Dark City / Exiztenz.
(I wrote my dissertation on how sci-fi films explore what we perceive as reality)
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:54, Reply)

Then I shall stop talking before you make me look like a fool.

(wellgroomedwookiee is a filthy-minded hobgoblin, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:59, Reply)

I spent ages on it, and loved doing research on it
And then, on the final read through, moments before handing it in, I thought "Damn, this is shit!". Panicked for a month, then got the mark. I'd scored very highly, which made up for ballsing up my Sartre exam.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:05, Reply)

I got a 1st for my dissertation
Then ballsed up my 'exam'. :(
I always mention the 1st in my CV though...
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:36, Reply)

I should probably do that
Well, I did in my interview anyway, so I guess that counts.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:37, Reply)

I wrote mine on perceptions of reality...
but it was to do with snap-shot photographs and the idea of truth.

Merlot-Ponty FTW!
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:00, Reply)

I wrote an essay on perception once
It was awful and got a dreadful mark, but it was fucking brilliant too.
It was based on that childish concept of 'We'll never know if we're perceiving things in the same way or not. Not evena a straight line.'
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:02, Reply)

I love that concept!
Phenomenology - my version of the colour green might be your version of blue.

Fascinating stuff - Merlot-Ponty and Sartre argued about it for years.
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:06, Reply)

that colour perception thing blows my mind
I've never successfully discussed it with anyone
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:07, Reply)

I'm honestly not sure how I'd discuss it at any length
Other than to maybe go into a 'social contract' thing about agreed-upon notions of what is green/blue etc.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:14, Reply)

that's just it
how can you get across to someone how you perceive a colour?
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:18, Reply)

That could explain
why some people are good at matching colours and others aren't. At least, that's what I like to believe, as it's a good excuse for a girl like me who always seems to put together the wrong clothes.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:20, Reply)

I really went to town on it
The only essay that I didn't hurriedly scribble together at 6am on deadline day.

53%
SAD
FACE
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:07, Reply)

I love that too
I think I tought about that thing of the colours without anyone telling me, and I was so proud of myself. Until I realize there was a whole science behind it :(
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:16, Reply)

Perception is fascinating

( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:07, Reply)

I wrote mine on the effects of proteasome inhibition on the circadian clock mechanism,
so it's not really relevant here.
(wellgroomedwookiee is a filthy-minded hobgoblin, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:03, Reply)

I wrote mine on modelling the impact of mangrove trees on water elevations in riverine basins
I think you'll agree that I am clearly the authority here.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:05, Reply)

I actually forgot to say that that was my second dissertation
My first was about historical accuracy in the book, 'Gone with the Wind' and my third was a poetic-prose novella about a stalker.
So I'm covering all bases.
Mad women? I'm your expert.
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:08, Reply)

I wrote mine on the effects of opiods and cannabanoids on appetite in rats.

(PsychoChomp, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:13, Reply)

nicely summarised

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:03, Reply)

I'm sure our resident clasicist will correct me on this.
The ancient greeks believed that a man's soul was immmortal, only so long as his friends remembered him.

I like to think this is true, which is why I'm thinking of my friend now, before we cremate him on Friday. He introduced me to drugs, what more can I say, a real star.
( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:48, Reply)

I can take consolation from that version of 'immortality'

( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 11:50, Reply)

Sartre says this too
'Those dead who have not been able to be saved and transported to the boundaries of the concrete past of a survivor are not past; they along with their pasts are annihilated' p.112, Being and Nothingness, J-P S.
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:04, Reply)

I have that book on my shelf
It's HUGE, and was a cunt to read, and made me hate Sartre.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:10, Reply)

I love that book!
Mine is covered in scrawled notes.
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:33, Reply)

I love what he says
Just wish it wasn't written in obscure/complex English. The translated works of Socrates/Plato are just as fruitful for interesting ideas, but far easier to read.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:39, Reply)

Plato and his cave....
Ah...happy days.
EDIT - You did a philosophy degree, didn't you?
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:47, Reply)

Yes I did
And I used the allegory of the cave in my dissertation (when talking about The Matrix, how once Neo has seen outside the cave he is unable to return to it).
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:49, Reply)

This exactly.
so long as there are records of our acheivements, somehow we will last forever. We don't necessarily know the names of the people who built the pyramids, but they exist and are clearly man made, so their acheivements still stand and have impact on us today.
(Poppet some assembly required., Tue 3 Aug 2010, 12:13, Reply)

There's no proof for any life-beyond-death theory
Just as there's no proof that you didn't die a millisecond ago and that this is the afterlife, with all memories imagined. Which makes no sense. Just like all theories about the afterlife. They make your head hurt unless you choose to believe one outright.

There's an interesting theory that when you die your brain acts as if it's on an ever-increasing dose of LSD, and that time slows down in inverse proportion to the time left until actual death, and suddenly you are effectively immortal, while at the same time dying very quickly. Which doesn't really make sense but fuck it.
(Mr Big Stuff, Tue 3 Aug 2010, 13:01, Reply)