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This is a question Sexism

Freddie Woo tells us: Despite being a well rounded modern man I think women are best off getting married and having a few kids else they'll be absolutely miserable come middle age.

What views do you have that are probably sexist that you believe are true?

(, Sun 27 Dec 2009, 12:23)
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Family Advice
I am a girl-person [*gasp!* On the internets! The horror!] in her early-mid-twenties and, appropriately for the Christmas season, have recently had to endure my elderly [and not-so-elderly]female relatives nagging on at me to move out of Singletown and settle down with a man [not even a ‘nice young man’, just any man] and pump out a few kids before I dry up entirely.

They then went on to analyse my many problems which make me unattractive to men:

- I am too highly educated [I'm not, I went to a decent uni and got a not-terrible degree]; no man will want a woman who has higher qualifications than he has. I pointed out that there are plenty of men with equal or higher qualifications than me, but was reminded that they will all be undoubtedly too good for me and I should aim lower.

- I have too many friends; which is apparently intimidating to men, and also means I have too little time to find a man

- I don’t know enough people [yes, this was said right after they moaned I have too many friends]

- I’m too fat. Well, yes, admittedly they have a point here. I am fat. But in the last half of 2009 I lost 4 stone, and even managed to lose a pound over Christmas week. I am under no illusions that I’m attractive, but I’m trying my goddamn hardest to get healthier. It seems though, that trying to achieve a goal isn’t good enough, and my female relatives believe I’ll be worthless until I reach said goal. Lovely.

- My standards are too high. One of my aunts pointed out that fat chav girls have no problems finding men to stick it in them, as proved by the high numbers of fat chav girls that have produced crotchfruits. I pointed out that I wouldn’t want any man that only wanted a cheap fuck. Apparently, this is an unacceptable viewpoint to my female relatives.

- I am apparently too masculine, in that I don’t like soaps, Heat magazine, designer fashion, X-Factor, high-heeled shoes, cocktail bars, Cheryl Cole etc. And I DO like sci-fi movies, Led Zeppelin, watching stand-up, jeans and trainers, rock bars and jack and coke etc. This makes me very unattractive to men as they won’t like me being so ‘ungirly’.

All in all, it was a hideous time for me, with my self-confidence torn to shreds at the hands of the women in my family. I escaped to the kitchen, where the men were on their second round of the buffet lunch. They asked why I was upset so I explained that I was too fat, ugly, intelligent and unfeminine to ever get a man and I should just give up now.

From the men in my family came words of encouragement and support. They congratulated me on losing weight, I got genuine support on my efforts to further my education through the OU. They told me to enjoy my friends and not to hurry or worry over such unimportant things as marriage and kids when I’m only 24.

What I’m clumsily trying to illustrate here is that quite often the gender roles and pressures are applied more strongly by our own gender, than any ‘sexism’ from the opposite. And, rightly or wrongly, I’ll follow the male advice and enjoy myself, rather than fretting and trying to be something I’m not, just to tie myself into an unsatisfying relationship with a man who wants a pretty, stupid, girly girl, instead of ME.
(, Thu 31 Dec 2009, 17:47, 31 replies)
4 stone?
Congrats on that one. Trying to lose weight myself and it's bloody hard.
(, Thu 31 Dec 2009, 17:54, closed)
You tell those hags us men find intelligent, educated soap hating, sociable woman the most attractive of the species.

The only people intimidated by your education and intelligence are your female relatives IMO.
(, Thu 31 Dec 2009, 18:02, closed)
What he said /\
Thier are few things more offputting then really girly girls
(, Thu 31 Dec 2009, 18:09, closed)
cheers. And yes, most of my female relatives settled down in their early 20s and never went further than college.
Frankly, I want to aim higher.
(, Tue 5 Jan 2010, 14:08, closed)
I like breasts

(, Thu 31 Dec 2009, 18:12, closed)
i like breasts

(, Thu 31 Dec 2009, 18:34, closed)
There was a program on the telly,
some time ago, about breasts. I watched it because it was about breasts.

There were lots of woman discussing breasts, and how they thought men preferred a particular type of breast and they were worried that theirs weren't right somehow.

Then they did some research and it turned men pretty much like breasts...all of them...all of the time. Not a shock result I thought.
(, Thu 31 Dec 2009, 18:51, closed)

(, Thu 31 Dec 2009, 19:08, closed)
can be quite good, yes.
(, Tue 5 Jan 2010, 14:08, closed)
The men in your family are the smart ones, aprt from you. I agree with the above posts as well. Have fun! Enjoy yourself and I guy will show up and you'll be shitting out babies before you're ready! Trust me on that, I have two
(, Thu 31 Dec 2009, 18:52, closed)
Your list...
...of stuff you DO like (Zep, jeans, etc) is pretty much identical to my girlfriend's, and I've liked her very much for five years, despite her liking Southern Comfort over JD. The women you've mentioned sound very jealous, narrow minded and a bit clueless, frankly. Do they have degrees? Do they even realise that art and culture are going on, let alone engage in discussion or activity around them? Also, observe how the men in your family preferred to be in the kitchen rather than with their wives/mothers/daughters/sisters...

I find sexism a bit of a misnomer these days, in a way. As you've started to twig, much of the backward thinking and negativity comes from women (although some blokes still have a lot to answer for). Those women 'read' magazines, buy clothes and wear make-up produced by other women, not men (by and large). Huge swathes of production management in popular TV are female, churning out rubbish to keep women chasing 'that' look, 'that' lifestyle, 'that' house, 'that' man or 'that' set of friends. Women turning on their own kind, to try and impress men. And the real joke is, many of us guys don't give a flying hoot about any of it.

I would ignore them, as best you can. Go on getting healthier, cleverer and more capable. Leave them and their distorted priorities behind.
(, Thu 31 Dec 2009, 20:09, closed)
I think you're right there. A LOT of the real nasty, emotional manipulation is done by women. Men may sometimes make blunt joking comments that can seem harsh, but I usually find these a lot less hurtful than a sly backstabbing compliment from a catty woman.

I really HATE 'women's' magazines. they are pretty much without exception, incredibly dull. while music, movie, technology, current affairs magazines [typically classed as 'men's interests', wtf?] are much more my style. Why should being female mean you're shallow and obsessed with overpriced celebrity culture? it baffles me.
(, Tue 5 Jan 2010, 14:14, closed)
I concur with what everyone else said :)
well done on being you :D
also, would :)
(, Thu 31 Dec 2009, 20:33, closed)
cheers. I shall continue to attempt to be me.
(, Tue 5 Jan 2010, 14:14, closed)
you lost me after fat...
(, Thu 31 Dec 2009, 21:47, closed)
Keep doing what you're doing
There is nothing wrong with you or your life. You can always go back and point out that some women don't even want babies, though they'll probably suggest only those who can't say that! I guess that any attempt at arguing with them will be met with more derision and put downs so just smile sweetly and let it wash over you...safe in the knowledge that you are doing fine as you are.
I'm lucky my relatives have always minded their own business but I have friends whose female relatives seem to think they know best and take the same confidence sapping approach.
Good luck to you with whatever you want to do, whenever you want to do it.
(, Fri 1 Jan 2010, 12:07, closed)
I agree with what pretty much everyone else above me has said
Sounds to me like those women are living in the past... time to say hello to the modern age, and realise what the world's really like today!

Also, for what it's worth, you sound fucking ace! :)

Don't worry though, I'm already spoken for ;)
(, Fri 1 Jan 2010, 12:15, closed)
Thought here
Being a needy man chaser who makes it clear that all she wants is womb-fruit is a sure-fire way to make any self respecting bloke (Certainly of the sort who would be likely to stay around for more than 5 minutes without trying to fuck your friends) run a mile. Check out how many fat chavs with a scrum of rug-rats are actually with the (Numerous) fathers of their kids.

Be yourself, do what you feel good doing, and don't go on a Bridget Jones mission and I can Guarentee you'll be fighting through a forest of eligible cock.
(, Fri 1 Jan 2010, 18:15, closed)
Oh for heaven's sake...
...your female relatives are all barking mad. Ignore them. There are loads of blokes who would find you a very attractive prospect.

Your male relatives look like they have fewer heads up their collective nether regions. If you're going to listen to anyone, listen to them.
(, Fri 1 Jan 2010, 21:49, closed)
Having gone through your list I wish more girls were like you! Especially on the paragraph about you being too masculine!
My friend has told me she's being hassled about having kids by her older female relatives. She's 20!
(, Fri 1 Jan 2010, 23:04, closed)
been told i'm too masculine a couple of times. It's quite depressing. I'm perfectly happy being female, I have no wish to copy men and make no special effort to be tomboyish, it's just that the hair/manicures/stilettos/celebrities aspects of femaleness bore the shit out of me.

I know that women have a ticking biological clock, but 24 is NOT too late! These days, 34 isn't too late!

Essentially what I'm looking for is someone reasonably educated/intelligent, who's probably a bit shy and frankly, a bit geeky [i love scifi and fantasy etc.], who has their own circle of friends and will be happy to go off down the pub with them without me sometimes as i don't really get on with living in eachother's pockets 24/7; I value personal space on both sides. Oh, and someone who'll go see bands and live gigs with me.

Personally, I don't think i'm asking for much, but apparently my standards are too high! grrr!
(, Tue 5 Jan 2010, 14:25, closed)
Nothing wrong with having standards
What's the point in being with someone you're not happy with?

The majority of men are bored by girly topics so when it's the only thing they're capable of holding a conversation about I want to put my head through a wall.

I hate living in another's pockets. Even my best friends drive me mad if I've been around them long enough. Past girlfriends have seen this as me not liking them. Personal space is a necessity!

I'm looking for the same things.
(, Tue 5 Jan 2010, 16:59, closed)
I know the feeling.
My female relatives feel it's time to find me a husband, because at the age of 26 I'm clearly knocking on a bit. My dad however has made it clear that the only person who will be finding me a husband is me.
(, Sat 2 Jan 2010, 15:20, closed)
I have suddenly become irresistible to men
It seems the more highly eductated and the more geeky hobbies I take on, the harder it is for men to say no to me. So yeah, your relatives are talking shit. Better still, it makes me only attractive to the kind of men I actually want - intelligent and interested in the same things as me. So yes, it may be intimidating to someone who just wants a pair of tits on legs, but since I would much rather be a nun than have children with a man like that I consider repelling them a good thing.

I also know loads of fat girls with awesome boyfriends.
(, Sun 3 Jan 2010, 11:45, closed)
ah yes,
but sadly all the awesome boyfriends seem to have been snapped up already!
Curse my shyness when they were available!
(, Tue 5 Jan 2010, 14:25, closed)
If I might offer another male perspective
One of my mates made me sign up to a dating site during the holiday (he was probably fed up with me whinging about being single). So, as a 26-year-old male, amongst the most important of the "desires" I put in were:

- At least university-educated (I want someone I can hold an interesting conversation with, and I'm tired of watching people's eyes glaze over when I talk*)
- Shares my interests (I'm a geek for sci-fi and fantasy novels and disparaging them will generally annoy me; I love listening to music, though I'll listen to anything from classic rock to Prokofiev, with Boards of Canada and Queens of the Stone Age in between; TV is for Top Gear and panel shows like QI).
- Not the sort of narcissist who ritually follows fashion. I don't see why it should take you more than, say, two minutes to decide what to wear, generally.

* It's not that I speak in monotone so much as I'm a software developer and most of my conversations involve computing. I know, I know, I try to avoid the subject where possible.
(, Mon 4 Jan 2010, 14:54, closed)
that's pretty much exactly my 'list' too!
Up to and including fantasy novels, classic rock, Prokofiev, Top Gear and QI.
(, Tue 5 Jan 2010, 14:27, closed)
Excellent :D
If you also tell me that you can't stand Big Brother and that the We Buy Any Car Dot Com adverts make you mute the TV and/or wander off for a cup of tea, I may just propose...
(, Tue 5 Jan 2010, 20:10, closed)
Big Brother can fuck off and die. I'd like to put the whole production team and indeed anyone who has anything to do with making or promoting it into the house, and then nuke it.
And while we're at it, let's put in anyone involved with the We Buy Any Car ads, along with the Go Compare and Gold 4 U ones. *shudders*
(, Tue 5 Jan 2010, 20:49, closed)
Why can't more women be like you?
(, Thu 7 Jan 2010, 14:29, closed)
*draws curtain*
Just so you two can have a bit of privacy, like.
(, Tue 5 Jan 2010, 20:50, closed)

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