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#


news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7590440.stm

(I helped save b3ta! printmeister http://tinyurl.com/c8s8fd5 for titanic T's, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:10, archived)
# HA!
see also apostrophe protection society
(I helped save b3ta! kingsuperspecial is in an audience, wanking furiously, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:13, archived)
# Apostrophe's Proection Society
heh
(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:19, archived)
# I'ts that simple really ;)
(I helped save b3ta! kingsuperspecial is in an audience, wanking furiously, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:20, archived)
# that's right, theyre all ga'y!
(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:22, archived)
# pffff
there was a shop near me called Broadway New's and Booze, classy eh?
(I helped save b3ta! Barry the Time Sprout one of your 5-a-day, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 14:01, archived)
# Pfffft
To tell the truth, I've been racking my brains and can't think how '10 items or less' is ambiguous.
(I helped save b3ta! Peregr1n @peregr1n, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:14, archived)
# :)
www.gcse.com/english/less.htm

edit: i didn't know either ;)
(I helped save b3ta! kingsuperspecial is in an audience, wanking furiously, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:14, archived)
# Makes sense
(I helped save b3ta! ClanSoul, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:20, archived)
# It's one of those pointless distinctions that rile people up
I don't see why I have to distinguish between large numbers of small things (less sugar) and small numbers of large things (fewer shoes). Why can't I use one term for both?

On the other hand, people better not be misusing "insure" and "ensure" around me... :)
(I helped save b3ta! The Alchemist king of the needlessly complicated, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:20, archived)
# please insure you renew your ensurance ;)
(I helped save b3ta! kingsuperspecial is in an audience, wanking furiously, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:21, archived)
# *shakes fist*
(I helped save b3ta! The Alchemist king of the needlessly complicated, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:23, archived)
# *shake's fist*
;-P
(I helped save b3ta! kingsuperspecial is in an audience, wanking furiously, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:24, archived)
# *shakes fi'st*
(I helped save b3ta! Mystery_Bob, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:25, archived)
# what is the sailing word with all the apostrophees
foc's'ale? something like that. bring it on you pedants ;)
(I helped save b3ta! Avast is still alive!!!!, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:33, archived)
# fo'c'sle
forward of the castle

edit: (although it could be fo'c'sl'e or f'o'c'sl'e - dunno)
(I helped save b3ta! kingsuperspecial is in an audience, wanking furiously, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:37, archived)
# thats the baby
ta
(I helped save b3ta! Avast is still alive!!!!, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:40, archived)
# Life assurance.
(I helped save b3ta! LordManley twitter.com/LordManley, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:25, archived)
# Hahah.
(I helped save b3ta! the_rhyme_minister has a little bit of gold and a pager, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:25, archived)
# I hope it costs fewer this year.


(I helped save b3ta! Mstandot I suppose I should post more often., Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:42, archived)
# it's where you look at them after they say their little bit of grammar nazi
ponder it a moment

then punch them in the face

"Nobody gives a fuck"

and get on with your life :)
(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:22, archived)
# You would have less sugar
if you consider the sugar to be one flowing item, like a liquid. If you were referring to the individual sugar grains, you would use fewer.

I don't make the rules, I just have to slavishly insure that everybody else follows them ;)
(I helped save b3ta! Mystery_Bob, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:23, archived)
# Ahh. But it brings up the old philosophical issue:
I have a pile of sand (or sugar, I suppose but what the hell am I doing with a pile of sugar for fuck's sake?!) and I remove a grain from the top of the pile.

I continue to remove grains from the pile, one at a time; at what point does it stop being a pile of sand? When one grain is left? 10 grains? There is no real distinction between masses of things and groups of things.
(I helped save b3ta! The Alchemist king of the needlessly complicated, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:27, archived)
# Sand thief!
:D
(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:29, archived)
# When I do a poo on it and rub it into your hair.
Then it's just "smelly hair sand".
(I helped save b3ta! ClanSoul, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:31, archived)
# I sort of know a song about that (sortof)
www.last.fm/music/King+Missile/_/The+Sandbox
(I helped save b3ta! The Alchemist king of the needlessly complicated, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:37, archived)
# There may not be a difference philosophically
but there is a difference in everyday language.

If I ask a greengrocer for a bunch of grapes and he hands me a single grape, arguments about philosophy are not going to make me buy it.

[edit] On reflection, i think what you have identified is simply vague language, rather than any philosophical idea. A 'pile' of sand is a relative term which may mean something different to everyone, whereas 'ten tons of sand' is a specific value that there can be no doubt about.
(I helped save b3ta! Mystery_Bob, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:32, archived)
# http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_the_heap
(I helped save b3ta! The Alchemist king of the needlessly complicated, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:39, archived)
# You have missed the point.
It is not size dependant, you can have less of anything or fewer of anything.

Less sugar or fewer grains of sugar, fewer shoes or less shoe.
(I helped save b3ta! LordManley twitter.com/LordManley, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:24, archived)
# I had some shoes that fell apart
so techinically I had less shoe
(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:27, archived)
# You are sort of right:
"Use fewer to describe countable things. Use less to describe uncountable quantities, collective amounts, and degree. These terms are not interchangeable."

It is number dependant, not size-dependant. Or dependent. Whatever.
(I helped save b3ta! The Alchemist king of the needlessly complicated, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:31, archived)
# No, it is not number dependant.
If there are so many it is a bitch to count then it is still countable.

You never have less grains of sugar, no matter how much sugar there is, yet you have less sugar, even if there is only 1 grain left.
(I helped save b3ta! LordManley twitter.com/LordManley, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 18:37, archived)
# It should be 'fewer'.
(I helped save b3ta! LordManley twitter.com/LordManley, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:16, archived)
# It's supposed to be 'fewer', not 'less'.
(I helped save b3ta! Bob Todd whee, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:23, archived)
# well...
does it, or does it not include the basket? or everything else you're carrying? Does it pertain only to things currently belonging to the supermarket? What about things already on the conveyor belt? Arrrrgh!

Oh, just ten things.
(I helped save b3ta! SubCulture Hero ... ... He... .... Comes ... ...., Sun 31 Aug 2008, 13:15, archived)
# Christ, you can tell it's August can't you
Not you Meister, but the crap uploaded 'as news'
(I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:16, archived)
# Frankly "up to ten items" is more confusing.
Does that include 10 items?
10 items or less is quite clear - it is 10 items or less than 10 items.
less fewer.
Why do they not just change it to fewer, rather than sparking off a whole new debate? D:
(I helped save b3ta! xihpete A neutrino walks straight through a bar, with v>c., Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:16, archived)
# True. It would be better indicated as the half-open interval (0, 10] which would also make clear that you can't have 0 items.
(I helped save b3ta! The Alchemist king of the needlessly complicated, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:23, archived)
# it makes no bloody odds anyway
people still come through with trolleys with 200 items in them
(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:26, archived)
# last time i saw a half-open interval
was in the whiteshiths c compiler manual, about 20 years ago

i say yay for half-open intervals
(I helped save b3ta! empire of the pussycat requires more champage, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:31, archived)
# like a chav in tesco
would understand that hahaha
(I helped save b3ta! Avast is still alive!!!!, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:32, archived)
# because
the plain english society think that Tesco's customers would be confused by the word fewer,
(cs192 is sucking on a Koala at, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 14:43, archived)
# bah, never make a mute point with a pendant
(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:21, archived)
# MOOOOOT!
;)
(I helped save b3ta! kitaro is all, like, "Nifty Biscuits" 'n that..., Sun 31 Aug 2008, 13:23, archived)
# The Plain English Campaign can fuck right off
(I helped save b3ta! Shada, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:24, archived)
# could you say that plainer please ;)
(I helped save b3ta! kingsuperspecial is in an audience, wanking furiously, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:25, archived)
# How can they campaign for "correct" language when there's no such thing as correct language?
they want to cage language. keep it as their little pet. i cannot let them do this.
(I helped save b3ta! Shada, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:28, archived)
# these same bastards will demand we speak esparanto next
(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:32, archived)
# it's not plain tho is it
plain english would be like some single figure for a reading age

innit, like :)
(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:25, archived)
# I think Plain English has its place
for instance, insurance companies and the like who often deal with technical jargon that those outside the industry don't understand. That is a good case for making an effort to word letters and documents in terms their customers will understand.

I sometimes wonder on some of the finer points though - is it really making things plainer, or is it just dumbing down?
(I helped save b3ta! Mystery_Bob, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:28, archived)
# I can understand the destruction of legalese and doublespeak.
but if they're going to be boring prescriptivists... no.
(I helped save b3ta! Shada, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:34, archived)
# Just dropping this off here.
(Stashie is plotting against his blender on, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:30, archived)
# You have quality bollocks.
Slightly furry and very warm.
*rubs against cheek*
(I helped save b3ta! ClanSoul, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:32, archived)
# Comes.....Pays......Leaves...
.....Says "Thank You"
(Stashie is plotting against his blender on, Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:35, archived)