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This is a link post Home Secretary approves extradition of student Richard O'Dwyer over pirate TV website
Check the photo. His bag strap makes his t-shirt look worse then it is.

Plus it's a pretty shitty thing to be happening.
 (I helped save b3ta! Crap Little Monkey Deathstar, so good they built it twice, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:04, Reply)
This is a normal post Serves him right.
Bloody parasite.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:11, Reply)
This is a normal post
give your candle back!
 (I helped save b3ta! enoughblueskyforsailorstrousers, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:12, Reply)
This is a normal post Shant
The guy was warned, and made a ton of cash of the backs of other peoples work.

[edit] there is a reason why shadier parts of the net use .cc and .ru addresses.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:14, Reply)
This is a normal post
genuine question - why is he being extradited and not tried in the Uk? I really dont get that part.
 (I helped save b3ta! enoughblueskyforsailorstrousers, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:32, Reply)
This is a normal post .com address is U.S terrory and the copyright holders are U.S companies hence crime was committed on U.S soil
Same reason if your were you punch a bloke out in France you would be tried there.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:35, Reply)
This is a normal post Is a .com address really a US territory?
Surely websites can be operated and maintained anywhere.

As far as I can tell, .com (commercial) doesn't even mean the company is American any more since the rules don't seem to be enforced.
 (Shippy likes linebreaks and doesn't care what you think, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:37, Reply)
This is a normal post This will shed some more light onto why hes going to get fucked up:
www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/us-v-odwyer-ruling.pdf


'TVShack.net and TVShack.cc “earning approximately £15,000 per month” from online advertisements'
 (pissflaps. FSPW, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:44, Reply)
This is a normal post The significant passage in here is...
"However, wise though such entreaties plainly are, Parliament has made conduct found to be contrary to S.107 (2A) criminal. No court can change the statutory offence. The issue is whether the conduct actually alleged falls foul of S.107 (2A) not, as I fear Mr Cooper was urging, that no offence in law actually exists. It does exist unless or until S.107 (2A) is amended or repealed."

tl;dr This does look like a criminal offence under UK law, whatever people are saying in the press.
 (I helped save b3ta! prince-igor si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:17, Reply)
This is a normal post nice white middle class boy...with floppy hair...
its like madeline mccann all over again.
 (DefyingDarwin Old, untalented and white,, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:35, Reply)
This is a normal post No, I'm fairly sure he's going to be extradited,
not ball-gagged, sodomised & left chained up in Pissflaps' basement.
 (I helped save b3ta! Tab Hunter Make this useless process end and so, begin again, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:36, Reply)
This is a normal post As far as I remember it's because they're registered in the U.S
Others here can explain it better.

.cc and .ru are safe apparently.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:45, Reply)
This is a normal post I guess for extradition request, they have to prove that he's commited a crime in their country.
And for it to be granted a whole other set of things have to be proved beyond reasonable doubt. (Or it's arranged behind closed doors and then the facts are set posteriori.

EDIT: Scratch that about the request, seems like they can request one for any old bollocks.
 (Shippy likes linebreaks and doesn't care what you think, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:29, Reply)
This is a normal post This.
I don't really want the guy to go to prison for 5 years, but he did do his damndest to piss them off. Twice. I have a limited amount of sympathy for his plight.
 (I helped save b3ta! prince-igor si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:32, Reply)
This is a normal post Arf! & Grrrr.
".... a 2004 treaty that means British suspects may be sent across the Atlantic without any test of the evidence against them."

Fuck.
 (I helped save b3ta! Tab Hunter Make this useless process end and so, begin again, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:14, Reply)
This is a normal post Yup.
It's fucking disgusting. If America just 'wants' someone, then our government just hands them over without trial....And they keep doing it.
 (I helped save b3ta! Kung_Fu_Russ ran out of amusing signatures on, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:38, Reply)
This is a normal post Death Row for him.
Or he will get about a zillion years inside a supermax prison being gang raped and stabbed by pcmechanic daily.
 (pissflaps. FSPW, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:21, Reply)
This is a normal post he's an economic terrorist
making hollywood execs frightened in their beds that their business model is broken. Deserves nothing less than Gitmo.
 (I helped save b3ta! rob, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:28, Reply)
This is a normal post Not all films are made by "evil hollywood excs"

(I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:33, Reply)
This is a normal post And likewise
not everyone who nicks their IP is a freedom fighter. This guy seems like a bit of a cock who did something he knew was unethical at least in order to make himself money.

What annoys me is that he strengthens the "let's censor and regulate everything" brigade in Washington, by being clearly in the wrong.
 (I helped save b3ta! prince-igor si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:37, Reply)
This is a normal post If everyone who did something they knew was unethical to make themselves money got this kind of attention then the world would be a very different place.
Seems to me that most of the rich people in the world have been unethical at one time or another. Pretty much a requisite for the job.
 (I helped save b3ta! gronkpan @vomitinglarry.bsky.social, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:44, Reply)
This is a normal post How about the "Natwest 3"?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NatWest_Three

"The extensive news coverage of the Three in Britain resulted in a large-scale debate over the merits of their extradition to the United States under the then new Extradition Act 2003. In particular, a high profile campaign against the extradition was led by The Daily Telegraph newspaper.[66] Several arguments were raised against the extradition."
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:49, Reply)
This is a normal post Could you please clarify how this is relevant to my previous comment

(I helped save b3ta! gronkpan @vomitinglarry.bsky.social, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:50, Reply)
This is a normal post You implied that the rich were getting a free ride and showed they weren't.

(I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:04, Reply)
This is a normal post You showed me an execption to a rule.
3 people is a nice start but the rule still stands.
 (I helped save b3ta! gronkpan @vomitinglarry.bsky.social, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:08, Reply)
This is a normal post How about rich people selling missile parts to dictatorships breaking arms sanctions?
Will that be enough?
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/9139055/David-Cameron-not-sympathetic-to-plight-of-alleged-arms-dealer-Christopher-Tappin-ahead-of-Obama-meeting.html
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:13, Reply)
This is a normal post No, not even close.
Pretty much anyone with a large amount of money has done something unethical to get it (or inherited it from someone who did something unethical).

Right now you're at 4 people who have been pulled up on it. 5 including this guy that's about to be extradited. This is not a societal trend you are highlighting, it's just the rare few that get some sort of comeuppance.
 (I helped save b3ta! gronkpan @vomitinglarry.bsky.social, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:22, Reply)
This is a normal post Well it's a good thing it's not my job to change your mind isn't it?

(I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:31, Reply)
This is a normal post If you honestly think 5 people represent everyone who has ever done something unethical to make a profit then you are grossly underqualified.

(I helped save b3ta! gronkpan @vomitinglarry.bsky.social, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:57, Reply)
This is a normal post Ah I see, sorry I though you were talking about people being extradited to the US from UK.
You appear to be talking about something different.

Sorry for being under qualified to have a conversation with you.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:08, Reply)
This is a normal post You were replying to the following comment:
"If everyone who did something they knew was unethical to make themselves money got this kind of attention then the world would be a very different place.

Seems to me that most of the rich people in the world have been unethical at one time or another. Pretty much a requisite for the job."

I guess you've been replying to a lot of different points in this thread so they might all be blending into one big thing for you, but this was point I was making and you haven't done a good job of refuting it.
 (I helped save b3ta! gronkpan @vomitinglarry.bsky.social, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:14, Reply)
This is a normal post Yes me too fick.

(I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:21, Reply)
This is a normal post I'm glad we can agree on something.

(I helped save b3ta! gronkpan @vomitinglarry.bsky.social, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:36, Reply)
This is a normal post No.

(Ol' Ginger Bastard a role model for the children, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:27, Reply)
This is a normal post Your problem
See we can both make short snappy answers that don't contribute to the conversation.
Arn't we cleaver?
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:35, Reply)
This is a normal post What I just can't understand about cases like this is the ridiculous short sightedness of the corps behind it
this guy has essentially paved the way for them to make money in an entirely new way, has shown that it works, that there's a market for it and an eager audience, all they had to do was step in and make it work within their legal requirements and provide appropriate content and they could all be making cash money from their wares and his entrepreneurial endeavours.

But oh no, it's new, it's not how they're used to doing things, so send in the lawyers and fuck everybody involved up the arse as far as they can legally reach, after all since the internet started they've been losing money on declining sales and THIS must surely be the way forward!

Stupid fucking wankers.
 (I helped save b3ta! ..wil, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:39, Reply)
This is a normal post Make money?
Even if they take this guy to the cleaners.
Wipe him out for all his assets.
Sell every organ in his body.

They still won't make back the cost of one of the films he was ripping off.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:41, Reply)
This is a normal post Fuck me, who's given a laptop to Thatcher?
I wish I'd've charged you for your username now!
 (I helped save b3ta! Tab Hunter Make this useless process end and so, begin again, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:52, Reply)
This is a normal post Oi you! That's a low blow.

(I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:06, Reply)
This is a normal post People don't take their films by putting them online anymore than they do by putting them on video tape, nobody ever truly owns music or films, this is bullshit,
(folks at home I mean)it's just a darned site more efficient way of 'loaning the tape' by putting it online, but they're saying there's an audience that don't care about the quality of what they're watching, most people do, and if they like what they see low qual they may also buy it in full qual, I know I do, everyone knows you can't trust the movie trailers for a measure of content, so in fact they may be losing revenue by closing such sites down.

Have they checked that? Has anyone asked that question and looked into it? I bet not!

What if they could start showing full length movies at a deliberately lower quality for that very purpose and see what that does for sales? Is it very much different to folks being lent a DVD off a mate then deciding you want to own it? Or seeing it on TV?

Or just dig up all their older content of the type you usually only see on lower grade cheap content TV channels and let him use that, stuff that isn't making any noticeable profit anymore, people could watch those when they wanted and discover a few old gems which could again motivate sales, people demanding an old film they've discovered to be re-released, and you could also use it as a conduit for your new trailers and such and take a share of the advertising profits, it's zero effort he's already got the basic structure working and it's been proven.

Or you could put the guy in jail, whichever's easier...
 (I helped save b3ta! ..wil, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:02, Reply)
This is a normal post I read your orginal post as implying that film companies were trying to make a profit from prosicutions
looks like I was wrong, could you call off tabby?
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:11, Reply)
This is a normal post Down Tabby down!
Well I tried!
 (I helped save b3ta! ..wil, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:15, Reply)
This is a normal post he's totally ruined candle day for me.... *sulks*

(I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:20, Reply)
This is a normal post My Thatcher comment still stands.
Feel free to flounce, Toryboy.
Though, I must admit to having a foot in your camp: creative people do deserve to get paid for their work & not be lambasted for not wanting it freeely distributed.
 (I helped save b3ta! Tab Hunter Make this useless process end and so, begin again, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:36, Reply)
This is a normal post I could never dream of flouncing to your standard so it wouldn't be worth it.
Though I seem to have been jumped on round here for not crying about a little rich boy getting his fingers burned playing pirate for profit.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:38, Reply)
This is a normal post ^^This^^^
Oh so very much this!
Hollywood's business model is now officially outdated. People no longer flock to cinemas lioke they did in my youth and twenties. Technology is available to home users that cinemas would have killed for just ten years ago. I have an HD projector and screen in my own house - I have no need to go to the cinema any more even if it wasn't overpriced and inconvenient.
Hollywood can get behind the 'viewing from home via the internet' model - and sack their (pirate chasing) lawyers and their (region locking and staggered release) marketing executives in one fell swoop, thereby saving billions - or die.
Stark choice but people like netflix seem to be doing OK - if only hollywood would get with it we'd all see films as and when we liked, for a reasonable price, in the comfort of our own homes.
 (Captain Placid 24/7 ball gags, brownie mix and clown porn, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:23, Reply)
This is a normal post nope...
i live in the centre of london, super fast whizzy connection, and about 15 feet from the exchange (used to be fibre... but it was shit)

a buffering/or internet drop out mid film is unacceptable... we still need physical media or the ability to watch a completely downloaded film...

and what about my sister...loves films, lives rural...

the business model needs changing ill grant you... but remember not everyone has netflix/internet/hd projectors...
 (DefyingDarwin Old, untalented and white,, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:38, Reply)
This is a normal post Don't itunes do full downloads on their movies?

(I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:47, Reply)
This is a normal post they do... but thats still a lot of internet
a lot of internet somepeople dont have... and i fancy watching a film... in 2 days its not really the same as the cinema or buying a dvd from your nearest town (goodluck with that)
 (DefyingDarwin Old, untalented and white,, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:59, Reply)
This is a normal post Then like me you still will want to buy a physical copy.
I only use steam because I can make my own discs under their DRM.

Sadly with HMV, game, and gamestation going down the swanny the option to buy a disc is getting harder.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:11, Reply)
This is a normal post I wonder...
...If a film/TV show is supported by product placement, can the producers use illegal download figures to ask for more cash from the product placers?

"Dear Toyota. You paid $x for our 1,000,000 person audience to see your car in the latest episode of "House". We can now confirm that a further 200,000 people illegally downloaded/streamed this episode. Please find attached an invoice for $0.2x..."
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 12:54, Reply)
This is a normal post I think Gabe Newell said it best when he said "
Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem".

"In general, we think there is a fundamental misconception about piracy. Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem. For example, if a pirate offers a product anywhere in the world, 24 x 7, purchasable from the convenience of your personal computer, and the legal provider says the product is region-locked, will come to your country 3 months after the U.S. release, and can only be purchased at a brick and mortar store, then the pirate's service is more valuable. Most DRM solutions diminish the value of the product by either directly restricting a customers use or by creating uncertainty."
 (I helped save b3ta! gronkpan @vomitinglarry.bsky.social, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:06, Reply)
This is a normal post Gabe Newell who set up one of the best DRM solutions "steam"?
Netflix, iTunes, lovefilm all have digital download to name a few.
Not to mention many cable TV packagings include pay per few.

I like steam but I wouldn't suggest for a moment it's DRM free.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:18, Reply)
This is a normal post I've been testing some of those
definitely a step in the right direction!

Quality is pretty darned poor for a fully paid up service tho, on most anyway, none seem to have quite got it right yet, but glad they're trying!

*edit* which I guess again proves my case a lil bit, if we aren't yet capable of putting films on online streaming commercially in a decent enough quality to be acceptable to the paying public, why are we suing the asses off those folks showing the dreadful quality stuff for free? If you can't yet provide a decent alternative that works, what sales are you protecting?
 (I helped save b3ta! ..wil, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:21, Reply)
This is a normal post The quality should be ok as reports from netflex seem to be 1gb an hour.
thats 1080p quality levels.

of course you need to be able to handle that bandwidth on your side though.

I can get a 1.5gb UDK build downloaded in about 10 minutes but I have a good connection.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:28, Reply)
This is a normal post It's not that, the problem is one of compression
they seem to have pretty nasty problems of colour and shade, detail, it's not even as good as DVD quality on Lovefilm, like watchin an old VHS tape that's been stabilised in post, not great!

Netflix is better, my mate has it, but it still has problems, particularly with frame rate, not bad tho!
 (I helped save b3ta! ..wil, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:33, Reply)
This is a normal post My neighbout really needs to get a faster connection.
It takes me about 20mins to download a film over her wifi, the bitch.
 (pissflaps. FSPW, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:45, Reply)
This is a normal post must be all the bingo she is playing

(I helped save b3ta! fluffybunnykiller Is feasting on the clitoris of life, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 12:08, Reply)
This is a normal post I didn't suggest it's DRM free.
He is directly competing with pirates - it's about as easy to download a game on a torrent site as it is to download from steam, yet somehow he makes money hand over fist. He provides a service and people give him their money.

There isn't a way to get this kind of service for films or tv shows yet, I have to use a fucking VPN if I want to watch shows on hulu or netflix.
 (I helped save b3ta! gronkpan @vomitinglarry.bsky.social, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:25, Reply)
This is a normal post That ^
Very much that, the big companies and their silly global restrictions and public relations disaster teams of lawyers REALLY need to have a rethink, time advances, markets change, audience demands and needs change, and when you're not making enough profits from your wares no more suing every damned alternate or new media capable of supporting your content is NOT the way forward! FFS.
 (I helped save b3ta! ..wil, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:19, Reply)
This is a normal post This (a bit)!

(Shippy likes linebreaks and doesn't care what you think, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:42, Reply)
This is a normal post Good point
see napster and then itunes... Cos they did really badly out of it didnt they.
 (robneymcplum spiced up his life on, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:55, Reply)
This is a normal post I don't have an automatic 'sympathy radar' for people who commit crime
just because it involves the internet
 (I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:43, Reply)
This is a normal post it's copyright infringement
something that you've indulged in in your last post on /board

www.b3ta.com/board/10717038
 (I helped save b3ta! rob, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:45, Reply)
This is a normal post *fears*

(I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:56, Reply)
This is a normal post I assumed you were going to offer some defence and then I could shout
"TELL IT TO THE JUDGE!" Damn.
 (I helped save b3ta! rob, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:11, Reply)
This is a normal post Damn!
And why is my lovely otherwise quiet library full of noisy people right now, when i'm trying to waste my time on b3ta?
 (I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:26, Reply)
This is a normal post yeah but he wont have to "tell it to a judge"
because he's not making any direct income from the use or copying of copywrited material...

he might be DMCA'd but nothing more...

however sir, because you are hosting the content, and also generating ad sales... you might have to tell it to the judge...

and this kid did... because it was sustained piracy... not a single photoshop image.
 (DefyingDarwin Old, untalented and white,, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:27, Reply)
This is a normal post But it would be tought to argue in court...
...that me having seen this would make me less likely to buy their commercial product? Which is surely one of the things they have to prove, unless the US system is very different? (apologies, not too hot on how their legal code works on this)
 (I helped save b3ta! prince-igor si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:56, Reply)
This is a normal post Not really convinced the punishment fits the crime on this one
You can get drunk and go drive your car into a crowded footpath and you'd get off with less.
 (I helped save b3ta! gronkpan @vomitinglarry.bsky.social, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:47, Reply)
This is a normal post Some guy in Guatemala got six thousand years in prison yesterday
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-17349774
 (I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:58, Reply)
This is a normal post You're the second person to post something completely irrelevant as though it justifies the case we are discussing

(I helped save b3ta! gronkpan @vomitinglarry.bsky.social, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:01, Reply)
This is a normal post How is that irrelevant?
You raised the point of punishment fitting the crime, and it's a crime. Perhaps i'm agreeing with you
 (I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:06, Reply)
This is a normal post Personally I am quite happy that someone who brutally murdered over 200 people gets the rest of their life in jail.
Maybe we're talking past each other a bit here.
 (I helped save b3ta! gronkpan @vomitinglarry.bsky.social, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:10, Reply)
This is a normal post I agree
I just think it's a bit unrealistic to throw six thousand years at a middle aged human being
 (I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:17, Reply)
This is a normal post I was living in Hobart when Martin Bryant shot 36 people in Port Arthur.
His sentence was over 200 years but nobody was saying "This is a farce, he'll never live that long", they were saying "Good, he'll never come out of jail alive".

As that article says, it is largely a symbolic sentence.
 (I helped save b3ta! gronkpan @vomitinglarry.bsky.social, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:20, Reply)
This is a normal post To be fair it is slightly relevant, to the last sentence anyway,
if somewhat of a non-sequitor in regards to the whole subject.
 (I helped save b3ta! ..wil, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:06, Reply)
This is a normal post I unashamedly believe in the radical redistribution of wealth in our current system
Laws not just protect people from crime, they also help to preserve vast fortunes, and people with vast fortunes generally have great and disproportional influence in the legislative process. (take the tories, for instance)
so I support this poor fucker in his bid to steal some cash off the networks, and hope he has a damn good lawyer
 (I helped save b3ta! cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:13, Reply)
This is a normal post Yeah fuck the creative industries! Worse that Vivisectionists and Arms dealers they are.
We need more middle class rich boys making money of shit they didn't make to really show the man
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:18, Reply)
This is a normal post I think vivisectionists get a bad rap
and if middle class ikea-buying vauxhall-driving mock-tudor-bungalow-in-the-home-counties-living white boys want to steal from the networks (or the worthy "creative industries", sorry), then I'll support them too.
I can understand big companies and the super-rich protecting their interests (understanding doesn't imply approve). It's apologist such as yourself I've never been able to figure out. I guess some people like to imagine themselves as part of a class they'll never be a part of
 (I helped save b3ta! cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:23, Reply)
This is a normal post Good for you.
Fuck it, need to work so i'm pulling a Tab and flouncing this one.
People don't want to pay for their shit, up to them.
Just don't be moaning when the only people making anything creative are on youtube doing it for free or fast made copy and past bollocks spaffed out of hollywood.

Musics already gone to shit, films next.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:27, Reply)
This is a normal post me too. no rest for the wicked

(I helped save b3ta! cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:29, Reply)
This is a normal post
YOU
 (pissflaps;, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:58, Reply)
This is a normal post Worst candle day evaaaar!

(I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 12:04, Reply)
This is a normal post CaC.

(I helped save b3ta! Dawn Of The Bread $$$$ E-THUG 4 LIFE - THAT'S HOW I SCROLL $$$$, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:44, Reply)
This is a normal post That Stewart Lee
I'm beginning to realise that I don't like him very much
 (I helped save b3ta! TownsendsPublisher is all gravy baby, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 12:26, Reply)
This is a normal post The old business model is broken?
How is the new model of I want shit for free any better? It's like the free software brigade working at their tenured University jobs telling everyone software should be free.

Who is going to pay to make it? Crowd sourcing? Micro payments? Seriously?

I've got an awesome idea lets make movies like the internet is nowdays, adverts obscuring 50% of what you see, paying to get rid of adverts, adverts at the top bottom and side of every movie, every movie being some fucking rube goldberg machine to sell you booze or a car (fuck you Okay Go) all filmed on a Go Pro by needy under skilled hipsters showing us grown men on tiny bicycles in slow motion.

and relax
 (Captain_lambkin adifferent.me, Wed 14 Mar 2012, 16:29, Reply)