Techy types - a question about gaming.
Why don't you fucking grow up and just fucking stop it? Eh?

Ta in advance.

Not really, Chompy.

Will 'e-books' eventually do for print (outside the 'antiques' market)? I would say they probably will, and really for throwaway fiction etc why not? I don't have one but I've no strong feelings on the matter.

Alt: Good weekend? Plans for this week?
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:38, 153 replies, latest was 13 years ago)

Good morning.

( Fucking hell Jeff I am not a robot, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:39, Reply)

And to you.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:39, Reply)

How was your weekend?

( Fucking hell Jeff I am not a robot, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:43, Reply)

Pretty good ta.
See below re curry - also had a splendid time with Jr and went to a surprise party for Lusty's cousin, arranged by her blatantly gay fiancee.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:47, Reply)

The gays love getting married to ladies.
It's soooo fabulous.
(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:58, Reply)

This fellow works in musical theatre and is a raging whoopsie.
It is evident to all bar his fiancee and possibly himself.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:04, Reply)

Young master Stunned cooked me an exemplary vindaloo on Sat'dy.
It was a Hairy Bikers recipe - I cannot endorse it more firmly.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:44, Reply)

A proper vindaloo (none of this crappy takeaway muck) is a thing of great joy.
I roasted a duck yesterday and made a gravy with sloe gin & the giblets. I was rather pleased with it.
( Fucking hell Jeff I am not a robot, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:46, Reply)

There's no reason other than precedent for a vindaloo to be spectacularly hot.
This one was pitched absolutely perfectly.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:48, Reply)

At my local excellent takeaway, the vindaloo is a medium dish.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:53, Reply)

I suppose they do a phall?

( Fucking hell Jeff I am not a robot, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:54, Reply)

No, there are very few dishes that you would find on most menus.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:56, Reply)

omelette and chips?

( glued eel /questions/questionsyoudliketoask/post1648081, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:55, Reply)

Hello.

( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:49, Reply)

It is, rather, isn't it?

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:51, Reply)

What time is this bash thing?
I'm working till 6 on Saturday, and trying to figure out if it is worth heading to London after work. Also, why East London? The wrong side of London from the side I arrive on?
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:53, Reply)

Curry at half five and then up to the pub for (I suppose) 7?
West London sucks cock, is one reason. The Sebright is about ten feet from my flat, is another.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:55, Reply)

fair enough,
Actually, looking at it, I could get the bus, jump on the tube at Marble arch, and take central all the way across to Bethnel green, and then walk up from there.
I'll have a look at somewhere to stay, price it up, and then not tell you if i'm coming or not so that is is a wonderous surprise.
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:59, Reply)

The RE hotel is next to the pub and is perfectly serviceable.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:01, Reply)

Jesus christ Monters,
That's a fucking fortune.
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:52, Reply)

You'd come in to Paddington, right?
Piece of piss: circle line to Liverpool St, then a 26 or 48 to the pub.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:00, Reply)

If i get the Train,
but the bus goes from outside the pub and is about a third of the pric at that time of day.
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:14, Reply)

Then your Central Line plan is best.
It's one of the faster lines, too.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:19, Reply)

Morning.
Even as a teenager I atruggled to fully understand the point of 'gaming'.
I don't believe that print will die, as there is more to books than simply reading. An author I know, whose books are published by Bloomsbury, always has notes in his book on the choice of typeface. Aesthetics will not die.
It is the same with music formats - the CD was supposed to 'do for' vinyl, but since the advent of downloading music, vinyl has enjoyed a massive resurgence and now it is the CD which is slowly dying out.

Alt: Yes, excellent thanks - loldrinks with friends, swimming with the littl'un and baking cakes for my unworthy colleagues.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:50, Reply)

only because there is a nostalgia and collective value about vinyl and books,
that was never going to translate to CD's as they are soul less. Vinyl looked good, you had to treat it right, same with books. I get angry ifsomeone puts a finger on my vinyl, or bends the spine on one of my books, i could give a shit if someone threw one of my CD's across the room in to a fire.
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:52, Reply)

The only downside is that as vinyl is recognised as having a value that may also increase, new releases are quite expensive.
Often given unnecessarily lavish packages in order to justify the extra expense, when it would sometimes be better just to issue a simple affordable LP.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:00, Reply)

^ this

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:01, Reply)

yep,
i can agree with tangles on this.
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:15, Reply)

That's a ridiculous argument as people who just want an affordable copy of the music
will either download or buy it on CD. Only pretentious people who mistakenly think that vinyl is somehow "warmer" actually buy LPs, as evidence I present you and MOnty.

The defence rests.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:48, Reply)

Not entirely so.
My vinyl only policy acts as one of the few restrictions on my, frankly out of control, need to buy more and more music.
If it doesn't have a vinyl release, I don't buy it. (Unless I really, really need it.)
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:58, Reply)

The fact that I have over 3000 vinyl records already is my principle reason for sticking with it.
Plus I like the sleeve art, and the pops and crackles add a charm for me too. Also in the case of really old records, I like having a genuine artifact from that time.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:28, Reply)

Good day. If only it were.
Monts, the curry was all well and good. What about the 7 bottles of wine?
(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:53, Reply)

Shloer isn't really wine you know.

( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:54, Reply)

No hangover though.

(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:56, Reply)

Tastes like watered down perfume though

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:15, Reply)

Between two of you? Good work.

( Fucking hell Jeff I am not a robot, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:54, Reply)

The Mrs was drinking but was more of a bit part.

(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:56, Reply)

Sainsbury's have a very good pinotage on offer at the moment.

( Fucking hell Jeff I am not a robot, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:57, Reply)

Tesco have a NZ Pinot Gris on offer (yes, I realise that's a different colour but it's IMPORTANT)
I've never even fucking seen a NZ Pinot Gris in a supermarket, let alone one for less than £15. This is £6.

However, it could be piss for all I know, I was on the gin last night so didn't open one.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:43, Reply)

they do 2L bottles of coke for a couple of quid too

( glued eel /questions/questionsyoudliketoask/post1648081, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:45, Reply)

That explains a lot.
I stood on the train platform and downed a litre of pineapple juice in one, and had a series of naps throughout the day.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 8:57, Reply)

Shake any trees?

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:14, Reply)

I aga-didn't.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:18, Reply)

Bet you were wearing some black lace though. Deviant.

( Fucking hell Jeff I am not a robot, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:19, Reply)

I felt like Superman.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:20, Reply)

Morning all
e-books won't kill print. I don't yet have a kindle but I will get one in the near future. However, I expect I will still buy books, even when I have it.
The weekend was excellent, thanks for asking. Friday night was spectacular - went to se the 'Acoustic masters' tour in Gloucester. Three of the best acoustic guitarists ever* under one roof in a fantastically intimate venue. Made my whole year.
This week I are mostly dealing with tax people and lawyers.

*Jon Gomm, Preston Reed and Andy McKee.
(Captain Placid 24/7 ball gags, brownie mix and clown porn, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:05, Reply)

I've seen that McKee fellow on YouTube, he is very skilled.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:07, Reply)

Check out the other two
I left the gig smiling 'cos I'd actually met and spoken to all three of them, then drove home reciting the mantra 'I ain't never gonne be that good' over and over again.
(Captain Placid 24/7 ball gags, brownie mix and clown porn, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:11, Reply)

So you're happy for them to waste their time talking to punters after having completed their contractually obligated work?
What a hypocrite.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:50, Reply)

Dogs with bones have nothing on you, Al.
They give up far too easily.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:01, Reply)

Dogs don't have to put up with their bones making ridiculous comments on the internet.

(Bazongaloid, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:12, Reply)

I only have one thing after work this week.
It's tomorrow and I am keeping the rest of the week free. Don't want to be jaded for Saturday, although one can never tell what might happen.
(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:08, Reply)

I'm keeping my head down this week, too.
Although one can indeed never tell what might happen.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:10, Reply)

So you don't fancy a pint after work tonight then?

( Fucking hell Jeff I am not a robot, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:12, Reply)

I'm still stressing about getting a Kindle or such like
My step-daughter has one and they seem to be really slow to react when "turning" the pages. I find that I'm using the library more these days

Alt:
A mixed weekend. Party for No.1 son on Saturday which was great, but narky kids all day Sunday, which wasn't so good. Excellent Indian takeaway on Friday and house viewings on Sunday. You get a lot of garden but not enough bedroom size near the coast.
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:13, Reply)

You can adjust the settings on a Kindle. Your step-daughter is obviously technically inept.

( Fucking hell Jeff I am not a robot, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:14, Reply)

this^
I'm gobsmacked that a 22 year old can be such a fucking Luddite
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:15, Reply)

I buy ebooks, read them both on my Kindle and on my iPad. I also buy paper books - mainly cook books.

( Fucking hell Jeff I am not a robot, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:16, Reply)

I may take the plunge and "Kindle" at Christmas then

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:17, Reply)

You should.

( Fucking hell Jeff I am not a robot, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:20, Reply)

*adds to Santa list*

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:25, Reply)

Sorry mate,
there is no Santa. Tell the kids this, and make them cry.
(Bear Pookie The Frankly Challenged. Halloween is coming to town., Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:33, Reply)

Errmm......
www.noradsanta.org/
(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:38, Reply)

Morning hippy.
Yeah, not a bad one. I went to watch some "experimental" theatre, which was so bad, it was excellent. Think League of Gentlemen characters, "Legs Akimbo". And multiply it by a lot. I checked out the Student Union Bar later, and, as you kindly suggested, it was cuntish.
No mega-plans this week, college, and a visit to the dog track. It's good to pretend to be a member of the proletariat sometimes. Oh, and I might turn up to your bash, and complain/applaud the music choice.
(Bear Pookie The Frankly Challenged. Halloween is coming to town., Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:32, Reply)

Music is out of my hands now.
It's just 'down the pub' unless I decide to hold an after party (this is quite likely).
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:38, Reply)

Morning
I don't think the Kindle will kill books - if anything it'll do what mp3s do for music, get people buying more.
That Viking programme last night was well interesting Monty.
(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:34, Reply)

It's superb.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:38, Reply)

Very
Vikings trading in Istanbul, and founding Dublin. Blimey.
(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:40, Reply)

I just wrote a whole reply and my internet connection dropped
so imagine it was gloriously witty, eh?

General gist was no, too many disadvantages with eBooks, but I'll probably end up getting one for travelling,

And I was horribly depressed to see that more than 50% of the paperback bestseller list in Tesco was sub-lit mummy porn. Humanity, gt a fucking grip, for christ's sake.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:38, Reply)

Just had a look, and I've only read two of them. "Game Of Thrones", and "I Shall Wear Midnight".
I attempted Karl Pilkington's thing, but found it far too irritating.
(Bear Pookie The Frankly Challenged. Halloween is coming to town., Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:46, Reply)

I dunno about their online one
I was talking about in an actual shop. In the outside and everything.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:56, Reply)

Well done Boyce. Not even 10am & your shit thread has ground to a halt.
You should take the only honourable course of action.
( Fucking hell Jeff I am not a robot, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:50, Reply)

Shit in his hands and rub it on the screen in an apologetic ritual to the gods of internet?
or DYAAKY?
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:54, Reply)

The hand shitting option

(Bazongaloid, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:54, Reply)

i thought so.

( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:55, Reply)

This seems a more than reasonable alternative.
And one that more people should consider.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:59, Reply)

I am not solely to blame for how shit B3ta is.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:33, Reply)

But you do accept at least part of the blame?

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:35, Reply)

The majority of it.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:36, Reply)

Digital publishing won't take off with the current model which is unnecessarily restrictive in terms of formats
and how you can use them. Also, the pricing model is fucking ridiculous. You cannot charge more for an ebook than a paperback and not expect a lot of your target market to go "actually, fuck this I'm going to pirate it for nothing".

It's the failings of the music industry all over again.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:52, Reply)

See now,
my lady works in Academic publishing, and the online journals market is ripe for it. In the next couple of years i would not be surprised to see some sort of e-reader in the hands of all serious academics and researchers.
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:55, Reply)

Academic journals are a fucking con as well.
As part of my job I sometimes need to read published articles, and can have to pay in excess of £40 just for one article, not even a whole issue of the journal.

Which I think it pretty ridiculous given that it's supposed to be a way of opening up your discovery's to people.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:57, Reply)

RCUK now specify that you must publish open-access as a condition of grants.
But it's a fuck-up, because most totally open access journals are, well, shit.

There's a compromise whereby you can pay to have your papers free-access in a non-free journal, but then the academic group is paying about £3K so others can read the work for free, so understandably most groups don't do that.

The problem is, well, the journal has to make money somehow.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:01, Reply)

Won't happen, they're mostly too scared of technology.
We do get sent iPads now for some grant reviewing jobs, though, because otherwise they'd have to ship over a thousand printed pages to every reviewer.

You do have to send them back afterwards, though. Bah.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:59, Reply)

They send you iPads?
Can they not just upload a pdf to dropbox or whatever?
( Kroney, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:20, Reply)

I'ts lucky someone invented an ipad, they used to courier the entire PC over so they could check a file.

(Bazongaloid, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:23, Reply)

yes they did.
also, see below.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:25, Reply)

Nope, because you make notes on all the different grant apps on the docs themselves
and you need to have them to hand when you go down to London to sit on the judging panel.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:24, Reply)

Well nothing's stopping you from saving them to your own kit and taking that with you.
If not a PDF, then a DOC, or whatever. There absolutely is a better way of doing it then sending 400 pounds worth of tablet through the post.
( Kroney, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:33, Reply)

If they put it on a secure website and set it up to allow editing, like wikipedia
nobody would have to send anything or cart anything around at all.
( Kroney, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:38, Reply)

Don't expect academics to think logically about things.
If they could do that, they would be making money in proper jobs.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:38, Reply)

I'd say something along the lines of "well, they have IT departments, don't they?"
But then I have worked in academic IT before and to call it "amateur" would be highly offensive to almost anybody that can operate a mouse.
( Kroney, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:43, Reply)

There's nothing wrong with the IT skills of most people in Uni IT departments
It's their interpersonal skills that are usally the issue.

Actually, much like most IT staff.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:53, Reply)

+ and personal hygiene

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:55, Reply)

No, the problem is usually with the funding.
Academic staff want all the flashy gear to show the board, but aren't willing to pay for the supporting infrastructure. As such, all the professional IT types get frustrated and leave for commercial enterprise, leaving you lot with Colin the school leaver.
( Kroney, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:58, Reply)

I don't know which Unis you've seen that at
most academics I know wouldn't even know how to turn on a smartboard, let alone care about using one.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:03, Reply)

It was a college.
A combination of a gadget enthusiast, IT ignorant Head, no infrastructure, 1930s power solutions and the comms room in a disused boiler room. Fucking nightmare.
( Kroney, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:09, Reply)

Why are people so *stupid*?
I'm starting to get cross.
( Kroney, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:39, Reply)

Because people are idiots.
However, here, you're the one being daft, because you're not in possession of all the information.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:51, Reply)

If that's so, it's because you hadn't yet provided all the information.

( Kroney, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:51, Reply)

You didn't ask.

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:53, Reply)

He didn't need to - he was able to form a judgement without it.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:57, Reply)

Right.....
You can't expect people to put it on their own kit. You'd need consistent format and kit across all reviewers, who would have to supply it themselves. We don't get paid for this (reveiwing grants), why would we do it if we have to shell out for stuff?

Confidentiallity issues prevent a website from being used for some of these things. All the reviews I do for RCUK are done through an online system called JeS which does exactly as you describe. However, things like Wellcome Trust funding is done differently. You need to be able to sit at panel, talking to other reviewers and applicants at interview, with all the documents and all your private notes (which you do not share with others) to hand. I fail to see how the cost of posting an iPad twice is somehow an inefficient way of doing this?
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:50, Reply)

Seriously, why not?
You've got the copy online as your master. Consistent format is easy enough, Word 2003 .doc format. Every piece of kit going can open it and save to it. I fail to see why you all need identical gear if the format is identical. Presumably there's a reason?

If you're going to a bloody review board, to sit in front of them and talk to them, please explain to me why an online original and a downloaded, amended, private copy of the document is a worse solution than the current? Because I'm baffled. Quite apart from the cost of having one of these things get lost in the post, if it does get lost, all that confidential data is in the public domain.
( Kroney, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:56, Reply)

All the confidential data is in the public domain
the second you let anyone download it. Which your scheme requires.

I reckon there's a fuck sight fewer iPods lost by couriers in this scheme then you would have documents left on trains if you let people handle it themselves.

and you want a format you can make notes on, not edit. So word is useless. Plus, figures and pictures will move and re-format, all that shit.

And that doesn't change the fact that reveiwers would still need to provide some piece of kit to bring to panel.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:01, Reply)

Well no, if you've got identical format requirement
you don't need identical kit, meaning people can bring it in on laptops or USB sticks if there's a PC available on site.

I suspect half of all this is "this is the way it's done, therefore it's the only way to do it". You can make comments/notes on pdf documents without editing the original text.

OK, you have a point with the security, but you all seem happy to throw iPads through the post, so it doesn't seem as though that's exactly a high priority.
( Kroney, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:04, Reply)

you cannot expect people to provide their own kit of any sort
if they are not being paid to do a job. So, let's say you provide PCs at the panel - fair enough. 15 PCs still cost as much as 15 iPads. There's no saving there. You have a much higher risk of loss of confidentiallity though, because you'd be giving people access to files in a format they can print, so they might do that. And then leave them on trains, in hotels, etc. Or else drop their memory stick. You're a lot less likely to lose an iPad than that.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:09, Reply)

Bullshit. If you're stupid enough to lose a document you're stupd enough to lose an ipad
That is a complete non argument.

If the data is on the ipad it can be taken off the ipad. so the confidentiality argument is bullshit too.

If confidentiality is that important are you all forced to sign non disclosure agreements, or similar? If not then that's just further evidence that it's a bullshit argument, if you are, then it makes no difference how you are sent the information. You can be issued with individual version of an encrypted pdf so if it got leaked it would have your name on it.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:12, Reply)

So you provide a secure website, or a Citrix solution with keyfob authentication.
You lose a Citrix keyfob in the post and you've lost nothing as they're assigned to passworded user accounts and even then you've got no idea which site it belongs to. Plus they cost pennies in comparison to iPads.

People log in. Access document from intranet. Make notes via pdf comments. Save to file. Journey to review panel, access via PC or laptop or even these iPads which you no longer need to post. User specific drives to save on, meaning confidentiality between reviewers.

Job done.
( Kroney, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:13, Reply)

I think you're spot on with the "This is the way it is done and there is no better way because we have always done it this way and we would have thought of a better way if there was one" attitude.

(Bazongaloid, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:14, Reply)

I see it a lot.
People just don't like change, even if it's demonstrably better and cheaper.
( Kroney, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:17, Reply)

They started doing it a year ago, so it's hardly that.
And I've seen nothing in Kroney's argument that is cheaper. You could instigate a system like he suggested which would be more secure, but it's certainly not cheaper. And as I said most academics would refuse to use it.

I think I'm spot on that you're bored and trying to provoke a meaningless arguement for the fun of it.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:21, Reply)

It's not trying to provoke an argument
it's pointing out that couriering ipods back and forth is a stupidly inefficent system given the technology we have available at the moment. You keep defending it as the only way it could work given your criteria, but Kroney has already come up with a better solution that doesn't involve driving computers back and forth across the country.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:23, Reply)

I never said it was the only way it could work
I said it was the best for the scenario. Kroney's system is technically fine (except I still fail to see how two computers, one at each end, plus addional software, is in any way cheaper than one iPad or tablet), but fucking useless becuase a fair proportion of academics would refuse to use it. And no, that's not a problem with the academics. You need a system that works for all the aspects of the problem. Simply ignoring one aspect on the grounds you think that it's stupid is failing to provide a proper solution.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:30, Reply)

and how is that in any way cheaper (which was your origianl point)
than couriering 15 iPads once a year?

Also, people then can't work while they are travelling to and from the panel with your model.

And, you're dealing with academics here. Tell them you're sending them a Citrix fob through the post that'll generate a random code enabling them to log onto a secure site etc etc etc and they'll tell you to fuck off, they aren't doing it unless you send paper versions. Tell them you're sending them a magic screen they can touch to make notes on and they'll probably grumble but agree.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:18, Reply)

Because iPads cost 400 pounds each and need to be couriered for 20 quid each way.
For the cost of one iPad you can buy 30 Citrix tokens at a support cost of a few grand for the initial install and ongoing support. Plus you can send them first class in envelopes.

As for academics yes, they're change fearing morons. My point is that couriering iPads is a stupid solution, not that academics won't resist a different one.
( Kroney, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:20, Reply)

PCs cost at least 400 pounds each and you need one at each end for your solution.
Plus a fuck sight more technical support than you need to use an iPad

It's not a stupid solution. It's a perfectly sensible solution for the overall situation. You've just identified that certain parts of the situation are stupid and should be changed, but failing to see that the solution has to handle all aspects of the situation, rather than the parts that suit you.

You've identified a problem with some academics (change-fearing - morons it a bit fucking harsh, coming from a IT jockey, no?) and my point above is exactly the problem with IT. Refusal to accept that a good solution has to work for the all users and that you don't get to bend users to do what you want.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:26, Reply)

everyone has fucked offf to the awsum new thrad btw

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:30, Reply)

I'm staying here until the cheese-eating surrender monkey says sorry.

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:31, Reply)

All you've done in your last two posts is say
"OK, you're right in that it's technically better, but academics will refuse to use it because they're too change-resistant."

Which means that it's the users that are stupid, forcing you to use a stupid system. Which is fine, but that doesn't mean my solution is not better.

Simply saying that the users will refuse to use a better solution doesn't mean that your solution isn't less stupid or more sensible. It's fully retarded and you'll know that if you've got any sense at all.
( Kroney, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:35, Reply)

It's not retarded.
it's as cheap as your solution, simpler, and for the users concerned, higher security. For people more IT literate, your solution is great. But it's not about change-resistance. Why should they change to use something they will never use again for a job they are doing as volunteers? It's like making it a condition of volunteering for the Samaritans that you have to be a fully trained psychotherapist.

"stupid" is not the same as "not interested in something not relevant" unless you want me to call you stupid because you can't design a process to scale up the manufacture of a therapuetic drug?
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:44, Reply)

But it's NOT simpler and more secure. At all.
You don't need to be any more IT literate than you need to be to use HSBC's online banking system. It uses precisely the same basic technology. They can access it from their own home computers, so no cost for the volunteers. My solution may have a higher initial cost, but when you balance that up over years against courier fees and the inevitable lost iPads, I'd be willing to place my own money on it working out even at the very least.

And "stupid" is exactly the same as "not interested and not relevant" if they're shooting themselves in the foot by taking that attitude.

I am not calling the people stupid, I am calling the solution stupid. I am calling the people ignorant. If you wish to call me ignorant for not understanding the process to scale up the manufacture of a therapeutic drug, then you'd be exactly right to do so.
( Kroney, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:54, Reply)

We're talking about 15 iPads
being shipped once every 18 months - 2 years. By the time your setup cost has been outweighed by courier costs I suspect both solutions will be obselete.

And your solution still offers no way of working on the documents while travelling, which is when we tend to do this stuff. What with us being volunteers, and having more than full time jobs already.

No-one is being shot in the foot by anything, since the only people I've come across that have a problem with this are you and Al.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 12:07, Reply)

OK, MB, your solution is best.
I'll look forward to reading about the loss of confidential data in the newspapers.
( Kroney, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 12:09, Reply)

it's not my solution.
And I agree yours is more secure, but that's only one aspect of the situation.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 12:14, Reply)

Sorry, by "your" I meant "the existing".

( Kroney, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 12:15, Reply)

It's OK.
I still love you.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 12:18, Reply)

What? How is it more confidential when you are sent a copy of the data on a computer?
You have just as much chance to disseminate that info as you do if you were to download it.

And you are just as likely to leave an ipod on the train as a document, honestly badger, you're really clutching at straws here.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:06, Reply)

You're more likely to leave an iPad on a train as a document? seriously? In what world?

And it's more secure becuase you'd have to download the pdf from the iPad, through choice, onto another device, and then disseminate it. You're not going to do it by accident. And the sender sets the security parameters, not the reciever. idiot-proofing.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:12, Reply)

I have left a whole bag on a train before.
If I had a document in it, then I would have lost it. If it had contained an ipad I would have lost that too.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:14, Reply)

And if John Q Public finds a bag on a train
is he more likely to walk off with a thick wedge of paper covered in SCIENCE, or an iPad?
( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:18, Reply)

HAHA!
Yes, good point.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:23, Reply)

Good job you don't review grants then, innit?

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:18, Reply)

Format is surely not an issue, since that is being provided by the person who submits the grant application
And having access to Microsoft office is hardly an unreasonable expectation.

And with current technology using a website to share data can't possibly cause confidentiality issues, certainly no more than physically sending you a paper document or a file rather than sending a whole ipad.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:56, Reply)

I've covered some of that stuff above
but on your last point, how do you access the website when you're sat at panel?
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:02, Reply)

Digital publishing has taken off.
www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/aug/06/amazon-kindle-ebook-sales-overtake-print
( Fucking hell Jeff I am not a robot, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:57, Reply)

Shut your face.
Hope you die.
Fuck off.

Alt: Not great, arguments, football, boredom.
( Agnostic Antichrist Baltimora, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 9:59, Reply)

I am going drinking on Friday with a good friend.
This may make my performance on Saturday, never stellar, positively mediocre. I'll be in dire need of that curry though, that's for sure.

Also, how do I get to this pub without going on any povvo carriages? I hate busses.
( Kroney, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:06, Reply)

If you're worried about your Saturday post alcohol performance,
try Viagra.
(Bear Pookie The Frankly Challenged. Halloween is coming to town., Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:09, Reply)

Get a cab, you fucking flid.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:19, Reply)

DO I LOOK LIKE PRINCE PHILLIP TO GET BLOODY CHAUFFERED EVERYWHERE?

( Kroney, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:21, Reply)

Then get on a bus and suck it up.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:24, Reply)

They never stop for him
because he's constantly flapping his arms they just assume (correctly) that he's a mental spaz.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:22, Reply)

They think 'that French poof seems to be having an eppy. What a shame'

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:25, Reply)

Claiming Kroney looks like he's having a seizure is an extremely unfair slur on epi's.

( Fucking hell Jeff I am not a robot, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:27, Reply)

Yeah he wishes. Dream on, Gaston.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:31, Reply)

I have a couple of ebook readers on my phone
Don't see the point of carting a Kindle around. It's a bit more conspicuous than staring thoughtfully at my phone when I'm sitting at my desk and having a stealth-read.

Quiet weekend, consumed a bit too much wine but had a very nice Sunday Lunch at the Whitechapel Gallery with the added benefit of spotting the stereotypical artfags.

This weekend I figure maybe a curry and a few drinks? If only I knew a bunch of people who also wished to do this.
( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:25, Reply)

Yeah that would be nice.
Shame really.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:26, Reply)

*heaves passive-aggressive sigh*

( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:42, Reply)

I think it might be nice were some kind soul to start a new thread right about now.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:57, Reply)

totes donnit

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:03, Reply)

morning weirdos.
no, never for me. I love the feel of books.

Weekend was alright. I"m home visiting my parents for a couple of days, then back to uni.
(Poppet some assembly required., Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:04, Reply)

WHY AREN'T YOU POSTING IN THE NEW THREAD!

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:05, Reply)