squatters!
i am just dealing with removing some unwanted squatters from a client's property, and wondered what you lot thought about this.

the client is a charity, and part of the way it raises money for cancer patients and cancer research is via ownership of a property portfolio. one property in birmingham is currently vacant, as it is being sold. the proceeds are needed to fund an ongoing research project.

as of yesterday, a group of 8 individuals have seen fit to prise off the boards and shutters (it costs a lot to put them up in the first place) and move in. they have already trashed the place, terrified the neighbours - also my client's tenants, who are now threatening to leave - and have been very abusive and physically threatening to the client's agent. they have put a notice in the window stating "this is our home, we live here, it is a criminal offence to throw us out, blah blah". needless to say, they have not offered to pay so much as a single penny to occupy the property; they think they are entitled to free accommodation. and they are right, it is a criminal offence to throw them out without a court order, and if they string it along, it will take about 3-4 weeks to get that and to get high court bailiffs/police to remove them once the order has been obtained.

all this is looking at costing a charity approximately £10,000 in fees (we do it at a 50% reduction because it is a charity) and many many thousands to make up the damage and in potentially lost rent if other tenants do exercise their break options and quit as a result of feeling unsafe in the area or insist on rent-free periods to make up for having to live and work next door to these people for a while. there is zero chance of recovering anything from the illegal occupiers who have incurred them .

so what do we think? total and utter scummers who are raping someone else's property because they can't get their own lives together enough to pay for accommodation and treat it with a bit of pride and respect like normal adults, and a ridiculous legal system that supports their ability to do this? or do we think the real crime is that there can be homeless people and empty properties side by side, and owners of vacant properties should be morally obliged to assist the homeless by providing them with a roof over their heads, however temporary?
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:39, 206 replies, latest was 16 years ago)

As in all groups of people, there are bad squatters and good ones.
*shrugs*
( girlinthehole, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:44, Reply)

Your post's too long
I'm reading on my phone, summarise please
( Bert Monkeysex is waiting for the mods to delete him, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:44, Reply)

i talk boring shite
now show us your pants?
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:45, Reply)

Oh fucking hell
trust me to forget my phone's USB lead on the one day a girl wants to see photos of my pants.

Somebody gaz me their mobile number so they can upload a picture of me semi-nude please?
( Bert Monkeysex is waiting for the mods to delete him, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:47, Reply)

has that actually ever worked?

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:50, Reply)

0891 50 50 50

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:51, Reply)

Have employees pose as squatters
And move in too.
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:45, Reply)

Is it illegal to set fire to the building?
I'm very cheap if you need an expert.
( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:49, Reply)

All squatters are scum - job shy hippy cunts

Why the hell do they think they deserve to live somewhere that doesn't belong to them, whether it is occupied or not. Burn the building down and claim the insurance.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:49, Reply)

Mind Piss

( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:51, Reply)

yeah, don't mindpiss on my bonfire fucknugget

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:52, Reply)

Pleasant chap.

( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:53, Reply)

3=o - - -
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:54, Reply)

before I bother reading this does it mention breasts?

(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:49, Reply)

It does now

(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:50, Reply)

haha
i like this
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:51, Reply)

It does have all those letters in but not in that order or in the same word.

( girlinthehole, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:50, Reply)

i can't win with you can i
if i post about spilling whipped cream on my naked creamy breasts, you just accuse me of attention-seeking. if i post about a burning social issue, you just ask for tits. honestly...
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:51, Reply)

What was that about cream?

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:51, Reply)

actually i think it was yoghurt
so gone-off cream
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:52, Reply)

"burning" and "yoghurt"
Should not normally be used in the same sentence.
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:54, Reply)

Bringing back memories of the swab, is it?

(LongJohnBaldry, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:55, Reply)

Yep
I should have bought the brand without the pips in it.
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:56, Reply)

I can only imagine you had days on end with seeds in your seed...

(LongJohnBaldry, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:57, Reply)

So is that a yes or no on the tits question?

(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:52, Reply)

lots of tits living in the property
if that's what you mean
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:56, Reply)

Somehow
I don't think that was what he meant.
( K2k6 has a proper job these days, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:56, Reply)

I've read it now
what you've done is write out a massive case study to back your point of view then asked in a fake unbiased way what people think.
I would never guess you were a lawyer.
(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:59, Reply)

so which way do you think my opinion swings?

( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:07, Reply)

It swings right up Thatchers arse.

(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:08, Reply)

don't be ridiculous
she's far too left wing
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:09, Reply)

so in short,
you don't like this...?

Not that I'm agreeing with Bert ever.
( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:33, Reply)

Shoot the cunts

( K2k6 has a proper job these days, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:52, Reply)

I am now confused.
I thought squatters could only occupy a property they were able to enter without damaging anything? Removing physical barriers like boards means they broke in, surely?

Anyway, of the two options you offer, the former. Arrogant, selfish toerags.
(ThomsonsPier consumes, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:52, Reply)

technically you are right
in practice, once they are in, if they won't come out, what else can you do?

i did have one bailiff who managed to persuade the squatting scummer to come outside to "take a phonecall". two seconds later, the door is slammed behind him...... braindead scummer nil, bailiff one. but most of them are better advised than that!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:58, Reply)

Can't the client break in there himself
or hire heavies to do it, since it's his property, then make life unbearable for the squatters. That's what I would do.
( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:34, Reply)

1 x dewar liquid nitrogen
Wait 'til they're all asleep - better if they all sleep in the same room - close the door, block up the window as best you can, and pump a load of liquid nitrogen onto the floor of the room. They'll die painlessly in about 20-30 minutes and your client will knock on the door the following morning to find they all 'mysteriously' asphyxiated during the night.
(LongJohnBaldry, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:54, Reply)

I like this idea
The application of science to a social problem.
( K2k6 has a proper job these days, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:55, Reply)

The only good thing about the seemingly endless health and safety talks
is how many different ways you can learn how to kill somebody.
(LongJohnBaldry, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:56, Reply)

how would you kill someone with a slight indentation in the carpet?

( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:34, Reply)

It's a win-win all round

(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:57, Reply)

Nitrogen is possibly the most dangerous gas you can have around.
Because the body just doesn't react to it. You should not know such things young person.
( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:56, Reply)

It's used a lot in food packaging IIRC

(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:57, Reply)

It is
I think I'm right in saying that gaseous nitrogen is less of a problem, say, if you have a leaking cylinder, because it won't expand that much when released. Liquid nitrogen, on the other hand, expands to something like 700 times its volume when it boils, which is why it drives all the oxygen out of the room. And all the while, you don't feel a thing, apparently.
(LongJohnBaldry, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:59, Reply)

Depends on how big the leak is
If there's enough escaping, it'll displace the air. Remember a new cylinder is at 230 bar, so will produce 230 times its own volume when it's at 1 atmosphere, or thereabouts.
( K2k6 has a proper job these days, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:00, Reply)

In small quantities, and its not like you are inside a bag of crispy salad.
I've seen it used to purge gas pipelines, and they clear the site while it goes on.
( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:01, Reply)

How can you be sure he's not inside a bag of crispy salad?
He might like it in there.
(LongJohnBaldry, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:05, Reply)

So how do frogs sometimes survive in those packs?

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:08, Reply)

Their lungs don't need oxygen
due to all of the Gauloises
( K2k6 has a proper job these days, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:10, Reply)

Haw hee haw hee haw!

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:10, Reply)

See below for further farmyard noises

(LongJohnBaldry, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:11, Reply)

This is a frenchman laughing

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:14, Reply)

I suspected as much
but written down, it could easily be mistaken for a donkey braying
(LongJohnBaldry, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:16, Reply)

That's less to do with the nitrogen itself
and more to do with the hazards of pressurised gas tanks and the original contents of the pipe systems having to be vented/ flared etc.

Crashingly dull post, sorry.
(Oil Slick, Sun 13 Jun 2010, 21:42, Reply)

That's why
you're not allowed to carry liquid nitrogen in a lift, and also why we have oxygen monitors in the cylinder store and N₂(l) store.
( K2k6 has a proper job these days, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 14:58, Reply)

Less mature response:
I NO RITE - BUT IT'S LIKE 78% OF THE ATMOSPHERE AND ROOM TEMPERATURE AND PRESSURE!!!!eleventy-one!!!

ASPHYXIATIONLOLS!!!!!
(LongJohnBaldry, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:00, Reply)

You need RENT-A-RAPTOR

( Undulating Tentacles of Love getting fun down to acceptable levels, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:00, Reply)

Perhaps....
A lot of /OT posters could surround the building and bore the scumbags to death with their incessant mono tonal bleating.
( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:04, Reply)

OI!
*bleats*
(LongJohnBaldry, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:05, Reply)

Moo

( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:06, Reply)

mwap-mwap
mwap-mwap
(LongJohnBaldry, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:06, Reply)

We could turn up and ask them all what they're having for lunch?

(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:07, Reply)

And if they don't respond to that
then I'm sorry, but it's time to hit them hard - and I do mean hard - and quote Ian Dury lyrics.
(LongJohnBaldry, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:09, Reply)

they're of the earth though
so they'll probably appreciate the humour
( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:35, Reply)

I could always write a blog for them?

( Agnostic Antichrist Baltimora, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:42, Reply)

I live
in Birmingham. I can go round and break their legs if you want? As BGB says - there are good squatters and bad squatters but to break in and trash the place, then put up notices like you own it is a bit fucking much and they deserve cunting right in the fuck.
(berk, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:07, Reply)

Good squatters

I fail to see how a squatter can be anything but bad.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:09, Reply)

i have to say
having worked as a property agent and then a property lawyer, i have never come across a case where they did anything other than trash the place and cost the owner a lot of cash to get rid of them!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:10, Reply)

To be fair Ms Swipe
The same can be said about my stepkids.
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:11, Reply)

Even if they don't trash the place, it's not theirs and they have no right to be there.

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:15, Reply)

They do have a right to be there.
It's in the law.
(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:17, Reply)

It's a law that was designed to protect tenants from being forcefully evicted by dodgy landlords
they are taking advantage of a loophole, and as the MP's expenses scnadle to perfectly highlighted, just because something is technically legal/within the rules doesn't make it right.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:21, Reply)

YEAH WE SHOULD CHANGE THE LAW TO HELP THE PROPERTY DEVELOPERS AND THE LAWYERS
Fuck the poor and desperate. Let's keep livable houses empty for tax avoidance and potential profit while people are literally dying of exposure on the streets.
(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:24, Reply)

Often it's the normal people who have worked hard for their home that are hurt by squatters
And so what if someone has bought a second, third or fourth home as an investment, that's their perogative.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:26, Reply)

Yes but it's an investment and a risky one at that,
their money shouldn't be protected at the expense of other people, they should be aware of the risks and plan for it properly.
(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:35, Reply)

This is utter bullshit, the equivialnt would be your money being nicked from a bank
nothing gives those twats the right to someone else's property, irregardless of the property owner's wealth.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:38, Reply)

oh you said irregardless
that upsets me because I agreed with everything else.
( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:39, Reply)

Just because someone is rich, doesn't make it ok to steal from them

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:41, Reply)

What did you read?
I was agreeing with you, except for the word irregardless because it's not a word.
( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:42, Reply)

Oh...I thought you meant the regardless of wealth bit

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:43, Reply)

no,
As a land baron, the idea of someone just breaking into my property and taking it over and then claiming to own it is abhorrent and I would be so upset if that happened to me.
( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:47, Reply)

What if Pschochomp broke in? She seems quite keen on the idea

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:48, Reply)

I would personally throw him out and take great pleasure in doing so.

( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:19, Reply)

I was aiming for irrespective
My brain is wonky this afternoon.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:51, Reply)

How is it anything like that
the income from a empty property is only ever potential, it's never actually real. Empty properties are at best useless to society and the community but can be very lucrative for individuals.
(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:46, Reply)

So? Are you a communist?

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:50, Reply)

Nope, just generally dislike the property buisness.

(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:52, Reply)

Therefore individuals who enter into it should be punished?

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:53, Reply)

We should string them up, just like the squatters.

(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:54, Reply)

I am guilty I'm afraid; I have commited the terrible crime of working hard
saving a deposit, and taking a mortgage on a flat. I am truly, truly sorry.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:56, Reply)

sorry but i have to disagree with you there!
it has a capital value for a start, which is raped by squatters if they trash the place!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:50, Reply)

I have never said that I justified the "trashing" of a place
that's a seperate issue.
(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:52, Reply)

that is what most of them do sadly
esp the ones who take over car showrooms. i had to throw 150 hairy bikers out of an old vauxhall showroom, and it took the specialist cleaning unit at the council DAYS to remove all the needles!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:54, Reply)

oh my god how awesome would it be to live in a car showroom?!

( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:59, Reply)

QUAZAR !
Oh man, just think about it, you could have a huge 24 hour battle, with shifts and stuff.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:05, Reply)

You could do that running slide thing that little kids do at weddings
you'd go for metres.
( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:20, Reply)

weeeeeeeeeeee... Ok, I want to stop now...... eeeeeeeeee...... seriously, breaks anyone?......eeeeeeeeee...... I think I'm going to........eeeeeeee.....be........I really don't feel.........eeeeeeeee......... oh god, it's gone in my helmet.......eeeeeeeeee
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:24, Reply)

wow
that's incredible
(The Incredible Sulk Finally remembered his password on, Sun 13 Jun 2010, 0:01, Reply)

So the spare room at your 'rents, shall I bung an advert up on CouchSurfing/Rainbow/Gumtree now, or do you want to do it so you can get photos first?

( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:01, Reply)

I could be impoverished
and dying of exposure, and sure, if that were the case I would probably try to shelter in an unused building. BUT I wouldn't be a cunt and trash it. It's not compulsory to be a twat when you're squatting, you know.
(berk, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:32, Reply)

I think you'd think differently if you owned a rental property
and it was an important source of income. Would you justify someone mugging you and stealing your phone and wallet if they said they did it to buy food?
( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:37, Reply)

You're not going to be getting rent if your property is empty
and you're not going to get squatters if it's occupied.
(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:39, Reply)

Well obviously
but you can't get new tenants if there are squatters in it and you're also unlikely to get new tenants if its been trashed. The squatters are now claiming to 'own' the house, so how can you show tenants around it and have them move in?
( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:40, Reply)

I thought the law stipulated that squatters were obliged to move on if asked to by either
the property owner or the local council? That is to say, the law doesn't stop them trying to move in, but it prevents them staying there as soon as someone else can convincingly lay claim to the property...I could be wrong.
(LongJohnBaldry, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:43, Reply)

I don't know to be honest
Rswipe should know, she started it.
( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:46, Reply)

Ms Swipe's OP suggests they need a court order to legally remove them
So I guess I was mistaken - unless that's just the procedure by which you're supposed to deal with it, even if you are able to staple a deed in your name to their forehead as proof that you own it...pls to clarify, rachel?
EDIT: Ta.
(LongJohnBaldry, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:48, Reply)

Yes, but you need a court order to evict them if they refuse to move.
Until you get a court order, it would be illegal to attempt to forcibly remove them or even enter the property, irrespective of the fact it is your property. Court orders take time and cost money.

Plus, a rather worryingly high proportion of squatters will have trashed the place, or at least *ahem* modified it.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:48, Reply)

it does
but you have to get a court order. these people are clever twats, and they know the law, and they know they don't have to go anywhere without a court order and then a writ from the high court entitling the bailiffs to tip them out. all this takes a few weeks and costs a lot. if the landlord is trying to do it himself, without legal advice, he can very easily get it wrong and get stuck with them for more weeks of trashing and expense!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:48, Reply)

Would it be possible to bypass the system a bit
And ask a Judge in his spare time to sign an order? Seeing as there's a charity involved.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:50, Reply)

nice idea
but never gonna happen in practice!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:51, Reply)

Get the charity to ask around it's big donors
One of them will likely be an oldboy with contacts. Even the most stern Judge would want to get the cunts out of the building, and would be happy to jot down a quick "GTFO, I'm a Judge".
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:55, Reply)

Or just march into the place, in full gown and wig
Bang his gavel on the door and shout
"I sentence you to kiss my arse."
(LongJohnBaldry, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:57, Reply)

I wonder
If you can't evict them with force, can they use force to stop you entering? Get some cops to 'squat', and arrest the other cunts if any illegal activities are witnessed.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:00, Reply)

that would be quite hilarious

(bamboozled Can hear you getting fatter, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:02, Reply)

Ok, with you now. But what about the damage?
Surely, once the court order is issued, the squatters are liable for vandalism?
(LongJohnBaldry, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:50, Reply)

yes
but they have no money. this is why the pikeys are squatting in the first place! you'd spend more pursuing them for the costs than you ever had any hope of recovering.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:51, Reply)

Are there no prisons?
Are there no workhouses?
(LongJohnBaldry, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:53, Reply)

Maybe they should die
and decrease the surplus population!
( Peej, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:30, Reply)

if you are using or taking something that is not yours
and you have not paid for it, it is theft. the world does not owe you a living. it is irrelevant if someone else owns 137 houses and never visits them, if they have paid for them!

plus in this case, there is a real risk of shortage of funds for people who are sick and dying through no fault of their own whilst these twunts are shovelling shit into their veins with needles and hurling the needles out of the windows to make the neighbours shit themselves even more!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:47, Reply)

I think the fact it's a charity is irrelevant.
The problem with the moral high ground is that it's a fuck of a long way to fall. The simple facts as presented are these squatters are in the wrong whether it's Mother Teresa or Idi Amin's house.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:52, Reply)

I think it's pretty stupid for a charity to invest in that way to start with.

(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:55, Reply)

People leave their houses to charities all the time

( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:56, Reply)

how come?
If it brings in income, why is it stupid?
( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:57, Reply)

because it's a big risk,
the property market can make you a lot of money, but it can crash and you can loose everything for a million different reasons. You know that.
(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:58, Reply)

This is true of almost all investment.

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:58, Reply)

Yes but you don't have to spend all your money in one or two places.
You can spread the risk a lot better with nearly every other type except maybe hedge funds.
(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:02, Reply)

It doesn't work like that.
one property value won't crash while another property rises, so you can't consider one property to be the equivalent of one companies' shares. One property is more like the equivalent of one stock market, so spreading shares around isn't lowering your risk compared to property, just lowering compared to putting all your money in one company.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:06, Reply)

there are local house price falls though
every time a new block of flats opens etc.
But it's not the variation in average house prices that's the biggest risk it's the flood/fire/structural problems that make properties a risky investment.
(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:09, Reply)

Haha, what are you on about, Chompy?
In the entire history of the UK property market you will be unable to find any two dates 5 years apart where a property hasn't be worth more at the end than the start. It's more or less the safest long term investment there is.

It's a risk if you have no control over when you might have to sell or you are after short term gain, but a charity has neither of those issues.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:01, Reply)

That's fine on the large scale
but not if they've got one or two properties where say they find asbestos in one and get squatters in the other.
(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:03, Reply)

ah, I see where you're going.
valid point. But "because it could happen" doesn't make it right or the charities fault. Thinking that way leads you into dangerous waters, chap.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:08, Reply)

Can I just point out here, TMB on /offtopic ! Yay !
I like these debates, it's the sort of thing that you don't really get that much on /talk.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:35, Reply)

yeah true,
but I'm assuming they own the property outright, such as those being left to them in probate, so that any income greatly outweighs the expenditure.

Also, lose has one o, come on.
( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:04, Reply)

Out of interest, why?
Can't see a problem with making money any way you like provided it's not illegal or something that wouldn't hold morally with your patrons
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:57, Reply)

Depending on the size of the charity,
(I'm assuming it's not a big one) the risk to return isn't that good.
Unless they do something like buy them do them up and sell them quickly, in which case I can't see how squatters got in in the first place.
(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:01, Reply)

Let's say you're intrusted with £250k, and you want to secure an income from it, how would you invest the money?
£50k in each group of banks collecting 2-3% if you're lucky on a 5 year bond?
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:04, Reply)

I'd buy shares,
I wouldn't buy a single £250,000 property.
(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:06, Reply)

but three properties for *does maths* £83k each
wouldn't be a bad investment.
( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:07, Reply)

83k wouldn't buy you a mobile home 'round here :(
£110k minimum for a tiny studio apartment in my town.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:08, Reply)

You can double those figures around here.
=(
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:10, Reply)

Christ, which bit of London do you live in?

( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:11, Reply)

A well specced new 1 bed near me sold for £320k...

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:12, Reply)

Jebus, what a rip off

( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:23, Reply)

Southgate.
It's quite a nice area, but it's no Hampstead.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:14, Reply)

*looks on RightMove*
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=OUTCODE^1671&insId=1&sortByPriceDescending=false

Slight exasoration, but only slight.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:16, Reply)

We don't all live in the third world.

(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:10, Reply)

I forgot you weren't aware of anywhere outside of your lame ass town.

( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:20, Reply)

Shares can go down just as much as they can go up.
Shares, on that scale, with that responsibility, would be quite a bad choice. You're relying on another company to do well in order to make any sort of return.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:09, Reply)

You can sell short as well.
Plus you can get rid of shit shares much quicker than shit property.
And I wouldn't have to deal with estate agents.
(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:12, Reply)

For securing an income, I wouldn't mind speaking to an estate agent or two.

( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:22, Reply)

Far greater minds than his have suggested it is a good investment
so I'm more inclined to believe the charities are right rather than an opinionated paperclip salesman.
( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:22, Reply)

haaaaaaaa!
you made me laaaaaarf there!
( blaireau69 , the Cumbrian Travis Bickle., Sat 12 Jun 2010, 0:27, Reply)

Property is an excellent investment over the long terma nd would give the charity collateral against which to borrow money

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:57, Reply)

nononononono
most major charities/pension funds own huge property portfolios!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:10, Reply)

Oh in that case boo hoo they're going to have to pay £10,000 and wait a few weeks.

(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:35, Reply)

but they do good in the world
these pikeys cause nothing but misery and cost and then do it again to the next landlord!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:41, Reply)

Well you're not allowed to kill them
so just suck it up, and go on making the enormous sums of money that you do at the same time.
(PsychoChomp, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:43, Reply)

No, but say you get a mortgage based on the value of your property and the value is dropped dramaticly because of the infestation of human scum (on the most part)....
... you wouldn't count that as devaluation of your assets?
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:02, Reply)

A building is more than the structure too.

( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:02, Reply)

I was a squatter for a while, it was through not fault of mine though.
The letting agent was taking the rent directly from my ex's wages, so they decided it was far too confusing to take it from his bank account, despite constant calls and letters from us. So we didn't pay rent for around 8 months, then got served with an eviction notice on Christmas eve. We called the company, arranged to pay 2 months back rent and stayed a further 2 years since we argued that we were security for the shop below since we had stopped two attempted break ins, so they were happy to keep us on there.
( fuck shit up the best you never had, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:10, Reply)

ah
but i am guessing you probably didn't trash the place and threaten to rape the agent's babies for offering you 24 hours to vacate peacefully?
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:11, Reply)

It was trashed when we got there, so we actually did them a favour by redecorating and throwing away 36 empty cereal boxes

( fuck shit up the best you never had, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:17, Reply)

A good squatter
is one who doesn't break and enter, and who fucks off when you ask them to do so. ^^ this kind of nonsense is reprehensible. Do you own the place, or have you paid for it? No? Then quite frankly you deserve to be set fire to.
It's one thing to be homeless and squat, it's another to be an arrogant toerag who somehow thinks he has the right to occupy and destroy somebody elses property.

EDIT - by 'this kind of nonsense' I was replying to rachelswipes post, not the redecorating and cereal-box-throwing of beckys!
(berk, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:17, Reply)

is one who doesn't break and enter, and who fucks off when you ask them to do so. ^^ this kind of nonsense is reprehensible. Do you own the place, or have you paid for it? No? Then quite frankly you deserve to be set fire to.
It's one thing to be homeless and squat, it's another to be an arrogant toerag who somehow thinks he has the right to occupy and destroy somebody elses property. probably has well-developed calf muscles.
(LongJohnBaldry, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:19, Reply)

Nah
it's all in the thighs.
(berk, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:21, Reply)

They're scum, absolute fucking scum, and honestly, I wouldn't care if the earth was rid of them all.
You all know me, relatively, I'm not a hard man, in fact, I was at one point a complete and utter walk over (where as now I'm only a semi-walk over). Let me tell you about Dave.

[Woooh', THREAD DELETION].

Yeah', one of them was a cunt to me, I don't give a fuck if they forcably remove them with bombs and then deal with the legal matters afterwards. Except that's wrong, because I care about the property and neighbours, who's lives are made hell so some workshy dosing cunts can have a 24/7 party and talk about how 'the man' is trying to make them 'homeless' because they won't go back to mummy'n'daddy 'cus after the 6th time of failing uni their parents had enough and forced them to pay house-keeping of 10% of their income.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:19, Reply)

He done a lot more really shitty things to me, but that's the gyst of it.

( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:20, Reply)

Is "sharing push pops" a sexual metaphor?

(Cave Duck, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:29, Reply)

If you're feeling that way, it's fine to explore your feelings in a safe and secure enviroment.
If you want to talk about it, there are plenty of help lines set up. Go speak to your friends and hopefully they'll understand, I'm sure they will.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:34, Reply)

Oh gonz, that must have been so hard for you, have a bucket of attention, I know it won't fix it, but it'll help it, and at the end of the day, what's done is done.

( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:31, Reply)

I had squatters in the property behind mine last year.
They took bolt cutters to the gate beside my house and used that to get in and out the back of the property they were squatting in. Drove me fucking crazy because the gate rattled and slammed against my gable wall every time they went in or out. What pissed me off most though was their stupid fucking hippy songs that they'd sing and play whilst sitting on the doorstep with a guitar.

Two of the blokes wore trilbys and one of the girls was called Charlotte. Cunts.
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:35, Reply)

were they Ash?

( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:39, Reply)

Haha. They were even posher than that.
I went to school with Ash.
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:40, Reply)

I liked them
until they started to suck. But that's true of all music. And everything else really.
( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:48, Reply)

I'm not a fan of their music
and I taped over their demo tapes with some fiddle tunes as I reckoned they'd never, ever get a recording deal.
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:49, Reply)

hahaha

( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:57, Reply)

to suck trying to make music.
(LongJohnBaldry, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:55, Reply)

Excellent.

(Cave Duck, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:43, Reply)

On a related note
A friend of mine's living in a place that's been repossessed, as 'security via occupation'. Basically he pays next to no rent (£45 a week, massive house) and no electricity/water/gas bills, but if something breaks or needs fixing then they have to fork out for it. The building isn't empty, so squatters can't walk in and claim it.

Wish more places did this.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:40, Reply)

that's a great idea.

( Kitty v1.0 desperately naive, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:48, Reply)

When he told me I was stunned I hadn't heard of it before
He's sharing with a work colleague, and the place is fookin' massive, and in rather good nick. £45 a week also means he has a LOT more disposable income than me...the fucker.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:51, Reply)

that sounds a rather splendidly sensible use of vacant property, actually.

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:49, Reply)

He'll obviously have to move if/when they sell the place
But he'll get at least a month's warning.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:52, Reply)

Is it worth trying to shame them out using the local news?
a few years ago in Bath, some squatters took over an old ladys house while she was dying in hospital and the local news shamed them out within a week.

However, what's newsworthy in the westcountry (Gerald the hamster has babies) may not be newsworthy in London.
( Colonel Dracula Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:50, Reply)

if this happened in london
all you would succeed in doing would be highlighting that here lieth an empty house for the next shower of tramps!!!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:53, Reply)

It's a jungle out there

( Colonel Dracula Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 15:55, Reply)

this property
will smell far worse than any jungle once we clean it up!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:08, Reply)

A farmer client of mine had squatters in a small cottage on his land
he drove a slurry tank up to the cottage, pushed the hose through the window and gave them a few hundred gallons of liquid shit to squat in.
( Colonel Dracula Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:19, Reply)

The problem with this
is that he'd have to clean it out afterwards, and the squatters would be liable to do even more damage to the place by way of retribution.
( K2k6 has a proper job these days, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:20, Reply)

The cottage was derelict anyway
nowadays travelling pikeys are more of a problem for the farmers I know.
( Colonel Dracula Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:21, Reply)

Travelling pikeys
would be a better target for the slurry treatment.

Mind you, they might think the smell had improved...
( K2k6 has a proper job these days, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:23, Reply)

Ha!
but seriously, they can really fuck things up for farmers. They steal, they ruin land, dump stuff and generally cause havoc. Also there's usually dozens of the bastards, so the farmer is outnumbered.
( Colonel Dracula Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:31, Reply)

I know
I've seen what they can do, not just to farmers' land, but also to football pitches etc.
( K2k6 has a proper job these days, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:43, Reply)

Can you not
Instruct a 3rd party to go round and change the locks? If someone was 'booked' to do the work before the squatters moved in, would it be feasible for them to turn up and do the work for the lease holder? Or is it a case that once they've claimed the place as a squat the rules change? A bit like saying 'no returns' to win an argument?
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:11, Reply)

exactly that
once they put up signs saying it is their home, you have to go to court to prove it isn't. the law sucks!

of course, lots of landlords ignore the law.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:14, Reply)

Too late to get an interim possession order?

( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:15, Reply)

Or get the cops involved if there's evidence of breaking and entering?

( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:19, Reply)

It was like that when we got here Guv!
Followed by 'Can you prove it'?

Would be my guess as to the likely answers.
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:23, Reply)

But would squatters go to court
To defend their occupation of a building? I'm guessing if they are skint they'd not be able to go to the expense of it? I would like to think that legal aid isn't available to people who want to steal a house either.
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:16, Reply)

they don't pay anything
they just don't turn up, or they defend themselves. just the time it takes to get a hearing buys them a few days or weeks for free!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:39, Reply)

they don't pay anything
they just don't turn up, or they defend themselves. just the time it takes to get a hearing buys them a few days or weeks for free!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:39, Reply)

What if
some big bruisers with crowbars just happened to be passing and thought, "Oh look, there's some squatters. They shouldn't be in there. Let's duff them up and throw them out, just so the landlord doesn't get any grief, out of the goodness of our hearts, like"?
( K2k6 has a proper job these days, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:19, Reply)

Offer them out...
By filling the flat they have occupied from outside by either drilling a hole in the wall/opening a window and pumping expanding foam into the flat. No real damage to the property done, it can be cut out after and it'll be unhabitable to the squatters if you imagine your room getting smaller as you sit in it...
( b3tz, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:43, Reply)

Organise a Bash at the address.
A load of geeks* decending on the place is bound to shift them.

*Yes, I know some of you aren't geeks.
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Fri 11 Jun 2010, 16:50, Reply)

Fire
These squatters sound like they could happen to accidentally set the place on fire... The charity collects on the insurance and the squatters either roast to death or leave, pretty sharpish! An oxy-acetylene burning torch and associated bottles and hoses could have been left on the property and happen to catch fire? :)

Other than setting the pikey bams on fire, I've got nothing better to offer.

Good luck with it all!
(WeeJen, Sat 12 Jun 2010, 21:45, Reply)

Solution
Couldn't the Cancer charity trade the squatted property with one owned by a Homeless charity?
(Rich T has a clever and witty sig, Mon 14 Jun 2010, 15:58, Reply)