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# I donno, as a non-smoking barman it was godsend
(I helped save b3ta! AutoPrawn is glad we're living in the future now, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:27, archived)
# i don't disagree with most of it, and as a smoker i don't like to blow smoke at people
but to not give anything back, no "designated smoking ares, no ash trays in public, it's wrong

what you going to do when they decide to ban drinking as
the only way to cut the cost of looking after hurt drunkards of a weekend?

it's already happening

first the warning labels
then the social outcasting
then the ban
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:32, archived)
# *can't be arsed doing this discussion any more*
*but agrees with you*
(I helped save b3ta! Debbilgrrrrl is kinda back, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:35, archived)
# You don't have a right to smoke though
so you can't expect provision for it.
(Pachey, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:35, archived)
# you do when you boost the tax coffers by billions and billions every year
or, in the same vein you don't have the "right" to drink

and yet my tax mney is still wasted every weekend scooping you wasted fools off the streets
patching your split heads back together
and feeding you breakfast after the fights you started :)

not YOU obviously :)
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:38, archived)
# No-one has the right to drink alcohol either
If you have an issue regarding the cost of alcohol-related crime you can take it to your MP. The issue, I mean, not the crime.
(Pachey, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:40, archived)
# sorry, start again
i don't want to stop people drinking
i don't want to stop people smoking

these are the the only pleasures of the working class
those that empty our bins and clean up our shit

soon they'l have nothing, and they'l come a knocking on our doors wanting to know why :)
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:42, archived)
# That's a very defeatist attitude
I write to my MP quite a lot (well, email) and it does make a difference.

Managed to get someone off Death Row once. :D
(Pachey, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:45, archived)
# i feel pretty defeated
i want to be able to smoke
but i can't

i've been repressed, and no-one can give me a good enough reason why
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:46, archived)
# You're a white heterosexual male
You don't know anything about repression.

Why can't you smoke outside?
(Pachey, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:48, archived)
# i've got ginger hair,
i know all about repression.
(I helped save b3ta! ivesb Highly specialised Clinical Physiologist crapbag, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:49, archived)
# this!!
calling some ginger IS AS racist as calling a nigerian a coon

but it's all about who shouts loudest in this world
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:56, archived)
# oh apparently it isn't
as the important parties like to draw a distinction

personally I call the "rudeness due to genetic differences" to be one thing

but it's all about socially acceptable rudeness isn't it, as you say, those who shout loudest

(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 12:12, archived)
# white hetrosexual men are the scapegoats of the twenty first century
who do you depict commiting crime when you don't want to offend a minority?
a white hetro male
thanks for that, i don't mind really

of course i'm not a Ugandan Refugee
my life is pretty easy,
but who is commiting the genocide in our modern times?
i can't say, i might be called racist
where does all the red nose money go?
not to the people that need it, but to the corrupt in power
be they white black or whatever

it's not race against race, it's those with power agianst those without
and that's what a lot of people miss

yes there were black slaves, but there just as many white ones too
so why should we as a race appolagise for something
the elitist scum of yesteryear forced on ALL OF US?
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:54, archived)
# you need a nice relaxing fag mate
:)
(I helped save b3ta! Prof UnderCover evitable, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:57, archived)
# it's exactly where i'm going
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:59, archived)
# I think you're missing the point
It's not about apologising for slavery.
(Pachey, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:59, archived)
# i'm just ranting
i don't care what the point is

i'm going to smoke :) catch me if you can!!!


*wheezes*
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 12:01, archived)
# You rant away sweetie :)
(Pachey, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 12:03, archived)
# at the end of the day
in a country with the highest child poverty in europe
is worrying about smoking the biggest problem on our government's list of things to do?
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 12:06, archived)
# Your point is well made
I just don't think the smoking ban is worth getting upset over.
(Pachey, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 12:11, archived)
# i'm just spending 10 mins getting it all off my chest
at the end of the day, as long as i'm not chased by riot squads for sparking up, i don't care

i wonder what will happen in other euro countries though
like the coffee shops of Amsterdam
banning smoking in those would be mental!
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 12:18, archived)
# it's simpler to pretend to temporarily fix a problem thus solving the issue forever
then to actually deal with reality

and if you'll excuse me, I have to plaster my town with WHERE'S MADDIE posters
(I helped save b3ta! discomeats This canoe, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 12:15, archived)
# ha ha!!
i like smoke free pubs

i just don't know if i like the fact that as a smoker, i couldn't open a smoking pub just for smokers
it's the having the choice taken away that's scary
even private clubs, where everyone pays to join
surely they should have last say what happens

if they smoke and you don't like it, don't join shirly??
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 12:20, archived)
#
Go back to reading the Daily Express
(Cuthbert Annihilator, Thu 7 Jun 2007, 12:08, archived)
# because it stinks you big smelly!!!
=)
(I helped save b3ta! ivesb Highly specialised Clinical Physiologist crapbag, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:48, archived)
# SO DOES YOUR CAR!!!!!
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 12:00, archived)
# Surely
the main factor that's never really mentioned in these arguments is that smoking is addictive, and the free will of the person saying they "want" to smoke is limited in that respect, so the argument becomes less "It's repressing my free will" and more "it's forcing me to come to terms with my addiction"

/blurts out some random words
(I helped save b3ta! The Neville What what what, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:51, archived)
# At last, a voice of reason
And the argument about "it will force people to smoke at home in front of the kids" is also bollocks. The nature of the addiction is not such that if you smoke for an hour, you don't need one at home. If you smoke in the pub, then you already smoke at home...
(Super Jet Shoes, Thu 7 Jun 2007, 11:48, archived)
# the government have deem that you don't have the right to smoke where you want to
so have made it more difficult for you in the hope you will stop.

even though you ahve an easy access point to get to your lungs, i don't think the NHS wants to open you up again.
(I helped save b3ta! Thor_sonofodin has done things, terrible things on, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:52, archived)
# but you could say that about so many things
so why just us??

why isn't macDonalds banned?
why isn't hard liquor banned?

it's one sided nonsense
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:59, archived)
# it isn't banned
you just can't do it exactly where you want to... and unfortunatley I think it's natural progression and probably has as much to do with the amount of money generated by smoking going down naturally as it has to do with government's concern with health issues... if you'd been sitting in your office, 20 years ago, 25, you could have had a smoke at your desk quite nicely
(I helped save b3ta! Prof UnderCover evitable, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 12:00, archived)
# it's to the very tip of being banned
push it any further and it will be illegal

illegal to do something as old as the human race itself
since we first discovered fire, we've smoked
and we've survived, we've lived on

but it doesn't fit the governments little view
of us all as battery hens, making sure they squeeze
every last tax drop out of my working bones
just so they can spend it on posh lunches in brighton
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 12:04, archived)
# They won't ban it
it's a nice little earner
(I helped save b3ta! fuscous, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 12:07, archived)
# That's a falsehood
NHS spending due to smoking related illness outweighs taxation revenue. So, people die and taxpayers fund it.
(I helped save b3ta! Carlossus, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 13:03, archived)
# But it's for your own good.
Think of the children.

Besides, the rules of the game have changed.

*bokes*
(MSB Load universe into cannon. Aim at brain. Fire., Wed 6 Jun 2007, 12:10, archived)
# Rubbish - you can't smoke inside with a pint in your hand. So?
and the government which has been so strongly set against you throughout history has played a significant role in getting people to smoke, in the interest of the government at the expense of the people.

Also I don't think you can argue that smoking is as inate a human characteristic as, for example, making fire, music or whatever...

although apparently it is the reason why America speaks English rather than French or Spanish
(I helped save b3ta! Prof UnderCover evitable, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 12:11, archived)
# Burp! 'scuse me!
If you eat McGonads or drink hard liquor in an enclosed space, it isn't going to affect anyone elses health.

If you smoke in an enclosed space, it will affect other peoples health. What gives you the right to inflict all the diseases associated with smoking on other poeple?

Smoke all you like, but don't force other people to smoke too.
(I helped save b3ta! cantshopforshit, Thu 7 Jun 2007, 0:41, archived)
# what do you mean
we don't have a right to smoke?
of course we do
(I helped save b3ta! Aphex The Mink Snackless, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:42, archived)
# no you don't
it's in the ten commandments

YOU SHALT NOT HAVE A PUFF!!!


who does make up these so called "rights??"
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:43, archived)
# Says who?
You?
(Pachey, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:47, archived)
# who says we don't?
you??
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:48, archived)
# European convention on human rights
Doesn't mention it
(Pachey, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:51, archived)
# a lot of things are covered without being
mentioned specifically though.

and how do you know this anyway?
(I helped save b3ta! Aphex The Mink Snackless, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:53, archived)
# I've read it
(Pachey, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 12:02, archived)
# this^
(I helped save b3ta! Aphex The Mink Snackless, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:52, archived)
# Rights are not granted by a government.
They are only ever taken away - hopefully for a good reason, such as preventing small children from driving.

The mindset that considers that you need government permission to do something is a dangerous one.

/liddle bit o' politics
(MSB Load universe into cannon. Aim at brain. Fire., Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:52, archived)
# Sensible thinking, that
But I think it might be better phrased as "Smokers don't have a right to smoke anywhere they want to"

Much like I think I should have a right to wander naked anywhere I want to, but apparently that's just not on!
(I helped save b3ta! The Neville What what what, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 12:11, archived)
# Or
"smokers are prohibited from exercising their freedom to smoke in location X because of reason Y".

I think if you look at a lot of the reasons given, they don't really hold up to scientific scrutiny or 'common sense'. A special smoking conservatory was shut down at my workplace because you can't smoke indoors anymore. Of course only people smoking actually went in there...

As for being naked, I think the Naked Protester guy is bang on the money. That the human body per se is illegal is fucking stupid. Clearly flashing kids etc. is something to be legislated against, being naked and just hanging out shouldn't be.

But I'm just an old skool Liberal. No-one listens to the like of me any more.
(MSB Load universe into cannon. Aim at brain. Fire., Wed 6 Jun 2007, 12:55, archived)
# So if I buy orange juice
I have no right to drink that?
(I helped save b3ta! fuscous, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:49, archived)
# Of course you do
But you don't have the right to drink it where you please.

Try buying some orange juice then trying to drink it in a clothes shop, or a cafe other than where you bought it.
(I helped save b3ta! NobbyNobody 21 years a b3tan, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 20:45, archived)
# drunks that get hurt should have to pay for their own medical bills.
(I helped save b3ta! Thor_sonofodin has done things, terrible things on, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:35, archived)
# they're talking about that - it might not be too far away
edit: certainly for the cost of having to get an ambulance out to look at a drunk and confirm they're not actually dying when some poor buger somewhere else is.
(I helped save b3ta! Prof UnderCover evitable, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:37, archived)
# ^^ this ^^
Or we should burn them to provide heating for the ederly.
(duck Quack !, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:38, archived)
# And the cost of cleaning up their sick
And compensation to me for pissing me off.

At bloody half ten in the morning too.
(Pachey, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:38, archived)
# and the fear i have walking home alone
and that i pray i don't bump into a bunch of drunkards
who wouldn't say boo to a ghost sober, but would kick
two shades of shit out of me for a laugh when drunk
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:41, archived)
# erm ok
and what if they don't pay?
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:40, archived)
# Take their spleen
(I helped save b3ta! The Neville What what what, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:43, archived)
# yum
can i have it on toast?
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:44, archived)
# spleen on toast?
Blech! Sicko

Right, I'm off to get myself some sardines-in-tomato-sauce on toast (quite seriously)
(I helped save b3ta! The Neville What what what, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:46, archived)
# forced kidney donation.
(I helped save b3ta! Thor_sonofodin has done things, terrible things on, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:55, archived)
# Ah
but you can only do that twice though at most
(tarbin tarbis, tarbit, tarbamus, tarbimus, tarbant, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 12:29, archived)
# Assuming they have a job or bought the drinks
they do pay, though tax
(I helped save b3ta! fuscous, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:45, archived)
# yes, but does that give them the right to brawl on the street?
(I helped save b3ta! Thor_sonofodin has done things, terrible things on, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 12:00, archived)
# If the fight is between consenting adults
yes
(I helped save b3ta! fuscous, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 12:06, archived)
# i think you find it's still a public order offence
even if they are consenting.
(I helped save b3ta! Thor_sonofodin has done things, terrible things on, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 12:15, archived)
# Yes! Ban drinking!
It's a darn sight more dangerous to a person's mental and physical health than tobacco (and that's saying something).
(I helped save b3ta! Hamster Trippin' aka Mr. Titts, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 11:42, archived)
# bang fucking on
this is what I've been saying to all the non-smoking drinkers who support this ban.. YOU'RE NEXT
(I helped save b3ta! Finite "Aardvark sorted out my shit!" on, Wed 6 Jun 2007, 20:08, archived)
# I get your point
...but I've never became ill from passive drinking before.
(WonkoTheSane, Sun 10 Jun 2007, 15:33, archived)