So the Jockanese referendum has finally been struck.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-19942638

Any thoughts? I really don't care. And they're lowering the voting age to 16. Again.I really don't care, do you? Have you ever voted? Do you think your vote actually counts, or think it's all a load of wank?
(Pookie Bear had some very shiny foez, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:04, 160 replies, latest was 13 years ago)

I think I don't care.

( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:08, Reply)

teenagers know bollock all

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:10, Reply)

Most teenagers are worse than that Naked Ape from the Internet.

( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:10, Reply)

Oh come on Jeff that's not fair.
Poor teenagers.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:13, Reply)

I'm a bit concerned in that both the parties involved have vested interests in the same outcome
so nobody in power is going to be campaigning to keep the union together.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:11, Reply)

I think we should let them have their independance then simply invade and subject them to far harsher rule
it's win win really
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:12, Reply)

Prima nocte FTW

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:12, Reply)

My thoughts are that this is a shit question and that you are a flid.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:11, Reply)

Thanks for your positive input.
I'll take it on board for a blue-sky session, with the next adhocracy all hands meet.
(Pookie Bear had some very shiny foez, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:14, Reply)

My thoughts are that you have a shit name and should revert back to your proper name.

(Bazongaloid, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:15, Reply)

Someone has probably nicked it.
It seems to happen every year.
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:16, Reply)

You'd have to be some sort of massively senile old belled to fall for that more than once.

(Bazongaloid, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:17, Reply)

Yeah you fucking would.

(althegeordie is not really a geordie, is really a virgin, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:17, Reply)

hahahaha

( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:18, Reply)

I couldn't log in earlier, and my profile was changed for some reason. And I was given this name by b3ta, which I shall now change.

(Pookie Bear had some very shiny foez, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:21, Reply)

whole website's gone to shit
i managed to break 2 profiles the other week,a ll because cr3 and rob are too busy noncing racist teenagers on sickipedia
(quintsy, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:22, Reply)

If they want to be independent they should have a war first.
It's traditional.
( Dr Preference AjcuiVd289, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:14, Reply)

Salmond has been done up like a kipper.
He's traded the one thing he needed to win (option of a two-question referendum) for something that legally isn't going to happen (16 and 17 year olds voting)

I mean, I really don't want independence, so I should probably be happy, but it's fucking depressing just how shit he is at this "running a country" thing.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:15, Reply)

I don't know actually,
If your options are do nothing or full independence and what you really want is more autonomy, but not total independence, then I think a lot of people will be tempted to vote in favour of the break up.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:16, Reply)

You might be right, but I just suspect something else
I think what'll happen is those that want more autonomy but stop short of independence just won't vote.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:18, Reply)

Trouble with that is that their non voting may give tacit approval to the Yes vote which is going to be more fired up than the no vote.

(Bazongaloid, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:20, Reply)

that, I think, is the only way he's going to win this.
Awful turnout. Depends if the referendum specifies a certain turnout to be valid. But, as you say, since a yes vote is in both Cameron and Salmond's interest, why would they risk a failure by actually making it fair?
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:22, Reply)

If the yes vote goes through, which I think it probably will, will they still use sterling as currency, or switch to the Euro, or their own Jock dollar?

(Pookie Bear had some very shiny foez, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:29, Reply)

I really don't think it will
he hasn't even got 50% support in polls for it. Which means in reality he'll have about 30% support at most.

Salmonds preference is for the pound, but of course the rest of the UK will block that unless Westminster retains control of certain areas of the economy. The Euro is far from stable, and there is no guarantee that Scotland would be allowed to join. So, probably some sort of currency linked 1:1 with the pound would be the only solution.

Again, it's a fucking stupid idea.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:33, Reply)

Except that you can't stop a foreign country pegging their currency to yours.

( Dr Preference AjcuiVd289, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:52, Reply)

Or, for that matter, simply using your currency.

( Dr Preference AjcuiVd289, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:55, Reply)

No, I know. I thought that was what I said? as in, that's the only real solution.

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:02, Reply)

You said the rest of the UK would block it. They can't.

( Dr Preference AjcuiVd289, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:03, Reply)

They can block Salmond using the actual pound, absolutely.
They can't block him 1:1 linking a new currency to the pound.

His preference is to retain the pound, but he won't be able to.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:07, Reply)

He could, quite simply, pass a law stating that it is illegal to refuse to accept sterling as payment for a debt.
Bang, he's using sterling. He could, for that matter, do the same with any other currency he chooses, though it would be frankly daft to do so.
( Dr Preference AjcuiVd289, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:09, Reply)

You could use sterling like that as a day-to-day currency, I'm sure.
Your treasury and banking system can't though, I'm fairly sure. HM Government has a say in that.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:13, Reply)

No, our currency used to be pegged to sterling, and in 1948 there were calls from sections of the Tory party to prevent us doing so, as we'd left the Commonwealth.
Turned out there wasn't anything they could do. Using the currency of a foreign country has its advantages and disadvantages, but unless Westminster wanted to kick off some kind of economic war over the issue it wouldn't have any say. Also, having a foreign country use your currency can't hurt you, and keeps trade with them fairly simple, so it's hard to see why they'd have a problem with it on economic grounds.
EDIT: Yes, I understand that there's a difference between a pegged currency and outright use of sterling, but I can't think of any legal mechanism which could be used by HMG to prevent it.
( Dr Preference AjcuiVd289, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:18, Reply)

see my thing below
being pegged to sterling isn't the same thing as using sterling, though. That was my whole point at the start of this.

The reason they have a problem with it on economic grounds is that you have no control over interest rates or economic policy. Let's say Scotland continues to use the pound but sets a higher base rate to the Bank of England. Financial transactions between the countries become fucked, because I can move £1,000 from an English to a Scottish bank and make more money, effectively making the currencies worth different amounts even though they are the same.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:25, Reply)

The problem with it is that you have to use the same interest rates, as we did for fifty something years we were pegged to sterling.
That can cause problems, but at the same time you get the benefit in terms of international trade because your currency is percieved to be stable, which is a serious difficulty for new countries.
The only reason the Irish Free State didn't use sterling outright was because of petty nationalistic concerns, not having the King's Head on the banknotes and so forth.
( Dr Preference AjcuiVd289, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:30, Reply)

Yeah, that was kind of my whole point.
Probably not well articulated. You can't do what we're talking about and hope to be able to completely set your own economic policy. There's a belief within the treasury that even Salmond setting taxation levels too differently from the rest of the UK scuppers his ability to use the pound, although that's not a certainty.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:34, Reply)

That's all true.
Except the bit about the belief within the treasury. Well, that belief maybe there, but it's bullshit. The Free State, and later the Republic, had completely different tax rates to the UK, without it hindering our ability to use the pound. Though we did from time to time suffer from our inability to fully control our monetary policy.
( Dr Preference AjcuiVd289, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:42, Reply)

Yes, but Ireland wasn't tied up in the middle of a world-wide destabilisation of the financial markets back then.
The concerns are to do with how the markets and world financial bodies, credit ratings, etc, will respond to, on the one hand, the UK spouting on about fiscal prudence, and on the other, Scotland effectively pissing the same currency up a wall. It's a point of strong concern in some areas of the treasury, it's got the capacity to be an absolute clusterfuck, and is partly why my missus wouldn't work on scottish fiscal policy despite that being what they wanted when she was brought up here from the Treasury.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 16:00, Reply)

Except that Ireland was doing this in the late twenties and early thirties which were, as you may recall, a worldwide economic clusterfuck.

( Dr Preference AjcuiVd289, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 16:02, Reply)

Good point.
I think it's more about how the markets are stablised and destabilised, now, though. Very different from back then.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 16:18, Reply)

I've just checked
it's theoretically possible for Scotand to use the pound as it likes without approval from the UK treasury, but the currency wouldn't be backed by the Bank of England, so it would be utterly worthless and banks and financial bodies would be all but unable to base their trade in Scotland. So you're right in a sense, but it would be madness.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:19, Reply)

Bit like 3rd world countries that effectively use the dollar

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:20, Reply)

What you would do is have a Scottish Central bank who backs it at the same rate.
New central banks have been created before, and no doubt will be again.
( Dr Preference AjcuiVd289, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:21, Reply)

You can't just create a Central Bank based on someone else's currency
and hope for it to be able to back up an economy. I mean, I'm sure you actually could do what you are suggesting, but what for? Scotland would lose its entire finance sector in a second becuase the currecy would be worthless.

And the Scottish Central Bank would still be unable to use the Bank of England as a last resort, so how is that backing a currency up at all?
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:28, Reply)

The only hope for Scotland to retain a financial sector, regardless of currency, would be for it to undercut London on corporate taxes, or go the whole hog and create an IFSC style wild west.
The SCB would be able to act as a lender of last resort in the same way that all other Central Banks do, by issuing government bonds.
Again, and I stress, I'm not advocating this, just pointing out that HMG can't stop it.
( Dr Preference AjcuiVd289, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:33, Reply)

Isn't it the case that bonds issued by a SCB would be effectively worthless unless somehow backed by the bank of england?
I'm not at all sure that a country's credit rating can be based on someone else's currency, can it?
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:35, Reply)

They'd only become worthless if the Scottish economy screwed up spectacularly and the country was frozen out of the markets.
The credit rating is based on the perception in the markets that the country, via its CB, will be able to repay its debts. In the short to medium term Scotland would be seen as a fairly safe bet. Though after that, fuck knows.
( Dr Preference AjcuiVd289, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:40, Reply)

i think we should get a really big saw and cut scotland from mainland britain to make them a truly independent nation

(quintsy, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:17, Reply)

i think bugs bunny did it to Italy in a cartoon once
must be possible
(quintsy, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:18, Reply)

you can't.
The Scottish highlands is the only thing counteracting the weight of ironic hipster cunts in Hoxton. Cut off Scotland and the rest tips up and sinks London-first.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:20, Reply)

i still don't see the problem?

(quintsy, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:20, Reply)

you might have a point.

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:22, Reply)

nah
i'm round at both ends
(quintsy, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:23, Reply)

i haven't yet seen him explain how he thinks scotland is going to pay for things
if it becomes independent from its bank account. maybe i missed that one.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:25, Reply)

north sea oil could probably bankroll scotland and then some for the next decade or so
but i doubt England will let them have all of that
(quintsy, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:28, Reply)

but what will they do if all the mars bar factories stay on the wrong side of hadrian's wall?

( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:31, Reply)

i dunno, import their own cocoa and invent the macmars bar?

(quintsy, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:33, Reply)

that sounds a bit like caramac
i love caramacs
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:38, Reply)

i haven't had a caramac since the great ribena shortage of '87

(quintsy, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:40, Reply)

i haven't had one for years
i want one now. damn you.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:43, Reply)

i hope it melts in your pocket
and you look like you've spunked your knickers
(quintsy, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:46, Reply)

^daily mail reader, right here

( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:29, Reply)

i am trying to stir something
will you just jump in the pot please?
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:30, Reply)

It's OK
we'll just sell water to England. Seeing as how it a few years you won't have any.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:31, Reply)

au contraire
half the country will be underneath it if the weather stays like this
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:32, Reply)

no it won't.
You'll still be in drought next year, and the year after, and after that, until people understand that the population density of the south-east of England is unsustainable.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:37, Reply)

those of us who live here do understand that
you only have to get on a tube/walk down the street/look out of your window to see that.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:38, Reply)

yes. but you're doing cock all about it.

Edit - to clarify, I don't particularly mean you personally.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:39, Reply)

i only flush for brownsies now

(quintsy, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:42, Reply)

i did my best to run over 2 gay men and their buggy on sunday morning
that would have helped, but the bastards dodged me
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:44, Reply)

I'm sorry swipey, you're far too beakering to have a view on this stuff.
it doesn't involve London, shoes, bags or people shitting on you.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:33, Reply)

since when has being too anything stopped anyone from having a view on anything?
that is not how ill-formed internet opinions work.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:35, Reply)

okay, if scotland fucks off there will be less shoes for you.
does that help?
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:37, Reply)

it depends
does that include boots? it's winter now, you know.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:37, Reply)

no heels, no flats, no knee highs, no pumps, no kitten heels, no strapy ones.
umm, that's quite strange tbh.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:39, Reply)

you know a lot about shoes
for a straight man. what did quentin do to you?
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:42, Reply)

the thing is..... I could have gone on :(

( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:44, Reply)

well, i was enjoying it
don't let society make you feel bad
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:45, Reply)

;)
@_@
(quintsy, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:45, Reply)

he sounds like a bit of a strapist

( glued eel /questions/questionsyoudliketoask/post1648081, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:49, Reply)

Go to a different chemist.

( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:39, Reply)

i get this!

(quintsy, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:40, Reply)

you mean you went to boots because you got it

( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:42, Reply)

i got it off jeff, he got it off a schnauser

(quintsy, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:49, Reply)

I read the Mail.
Voice of sanity.
(Pookie Bear had some very shiny foez, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:32, Reply)

The idea that Scotland is bankrolled by the UK somehow
is rather a myth. Financially, it'll be fine, better off in fact, except that a smaller economy is far more at risk. Oh, and it's a stupid idea.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:30, Reply)

there was something in the paper about 90% of scottish families taking more out in benefits than they paid in
but i was reading it upside down over someone's shoulder on the tube, so i could have misread it.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:32, Reply)

That was the idiot head of the Scottish Tories.
And it's massaged figures. But pretty much 70-80% of everyone in the UK takes out more than they put in. It's kind of inevitable. Unless your country turns a profit. It's a meaningless statistic.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:35, Reply)

i don't know whether to agree with you or to whinge about being in the 20% to wind you up
which would you prefer?
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:37, Reply)

I suspect you're the only person on here that is a net contributor
and even then, I bet you would be fucking shocked about how close you are to not being one.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:38, Reply)

she doesn't contribute nets
she gets caught in them when she goes swimming
(quintsy, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:41, Reply)

tax sucks when you don't get to tell them how to spend it
less beds for hospitals, moar pink paint for the houses of parliament
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:42, Reply)

how would that work swipey?

( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:43, Reply)

i just thought it would look good painted pink

( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:44, Reply)

but big ben would look like a cock.

( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:45, Reply)

that was EXACTLY my thinking

( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:45, Reply)

so, so hard up

(quintsy, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:46, Reply)

oh swipey :(
stop pretending you're not a fat lesbian.
none of us believe this act.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:46, Reply)

:(

( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:03, Reply)

the problem isn't taxation levels for scotchland.
it's borrowing. we instantly have no credit rating therefore won't be able to borrow any money.
this isn't talked about because the vast majority of our population think that means we can't borrow money from the local credit union to buy a large flat screen tv and some trainers.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:36, Reply)

Not that I care wither way about Scottish independence, but I don't think you're correct here.
New countries have come into existence before and had access to the financial markets. It may be slightly more expensive than you'd think fair at first, but it's not completely blocked.
( Dr Preference AjcuiVd289, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:01, Reply)

My thoughts are that this is shit and you are all useless morons.

( Fucking hell Jeff I am not a robot, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:26, Reply)

what's the fucking point of it?
I don't have a problem being british and frankly this "we bankroll scotland" rubbish can go fuck itself an all.
when the rest of the world is dying of thirst you'll be thankful you kept hold of our miserable, yet very damp, country.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:31, Reply)

I'm not bothered
as my mum is a jocko I'll just wait a few years, see which is better and move there, claiming dual nationality if needed.
(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:37, Reply)

why bother? it'll be in the eu.

( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:38, Reply)

If there's an EU left for it to be in

(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:46, Reply)

nah, germans enjoy telling people what to do far to much to let it collapse.

( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:48, Reply)

They might leave, that wou;d really fuck it up

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:52, Reply)

they might look all sombre but see once the doors are closed? PARTY TIMES!
they press a button on the table and circa 1942 maps of europe appear.
VE HAVE NOT BEEN DEFEATED YET MEIN FUHRER
HEIL MERKEL!
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:55, Reply)

Maybe
or maybe they're finding out that you can't have monetary union without political union, and also they're no longer prepared to pay higher taxes so certain southern EU nations can laze around in the sun?
(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:54, Reply)

oh shit, i reckon it won't be long before localboy's kicking arse in eastern europe and going on about 'lebensraum'

(quintsy, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:04, Reply)

Stupid nationalists.
Why do the Scotch tolerate these pricks?
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:41, Reply)

for exactly the same reason the UK voted in Tories
because people generally are fucking pricks, tangles.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:44, Reply)

Well can't we claim independence from all the pricks instead?

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:46, Reply)

I'd vote for that. Tangles for PM.

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:55, Reply)

Great, he'll ban meat, insist all vehicles run on "bioethanol" and change the national Anthem to something by "Deep Forest"

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:00, Reply)

Deep fried carrots!

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:01, Reply)

please ensure all frying oil is free from animal fats,

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:02, Reply)

read that as animal farts

(quintsy, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:04, Reply)

probably best it's free of them as well

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:09, Reply)

some dog farts have a nice curry whiff

(quintsy, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:13, Reply)

You'd be first up against the wall, Nakers.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:03, Reply)

for a bumming?

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:04, Reply)

I keep telling you - I don't want to bum you, so please stop asking.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:05, Reply)

; )

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:07, Reply)

I thought i cared before this thread; I no longer care

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:51, Reply)

Alex Salmond is a fat, racist cunt
And he couldn't run a fucking bath, never mind a country.

If the population has a complete spaz-attack and actually votes for his nonsense, it'll end up blowing up in his face. Suddenly he won't be able to blame anyone but himself for the mess he finds himself in.

Why do you think it's taken so long to organise the referendum? He's leaving it till 2014 so that he can wrap himself up in the 'anniversary of Bannockburn' bollocks in a last desperate attempt to win the vote.

If he does win, there'll never be another ship built on the Clyde or the Forth. They'll never win another 'English' Navy contract. Faslane will close when he stamps his 'no nuclear' button. There's 20,000 jobs down the lavvie straight off.
(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:55, Reply)

hahaha! YEAH!
all those job is shipbuilding eh? cor, I like going in my time machine back to the 30's when the clyde used to build ships.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:57, Reply)

Will there still be jobs for us chimny sweeps and boot shines?

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:59, Reply)

what about all those shoe shine boys and the soap boys working in the barbers?

( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:00, Reply)

My apothacary had better not shut down, where will i get my leeches!

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:00, Reply)

Also, it's BAE systems that build it you fucking idiot.
why the fuck would they close their yards because scotland became independent?
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:59, Reply)

maybe because they're going down the tubes as well?
Also, no more Scottish voters in marginal constituencies = no need to build and mothball an expensive aircraft carrier white elephant.
(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:02, Reply)

okay, so what you're saying is scottish independence will effect BAE systems business strategy?

( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:04, Reply)

it's already affected mine, i've sold all my shares in rust coloured paint

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:05, Reply)

Yes
Defence companies are politically controlled. That's why the BAe/EADS merger just fell through, the Germans wanted more control over it and us and the French didn't want that.
BAE only exists as it is cos the Govt allowed it to buy all the old Royal Ordnance etc anyway.
If the political reason to build in Scotland (votes) goes, so will the work. If it was cost reasons they'd be built in Korea or Italy.
(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:11, Reply)

Because the MOD has never allowed a major warship to be built outside of a British port.
If Scotland goes independent it's a cert they'll insist on all ships being built in English yards, regardless of what BAE owns.
(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:03, Reply)

YEAH! just like tendering out contracts to polish and czech companies for tanks!
or eurofighter.
or our interest in swedish saab interceptors
or our new kit suppliers
or the american built apache fleet
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:05, Reply)

You can only get apaches from america
it's where they live in their teepees
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:06, Reply)

Can you point out the SHIP in that list? FFS.
And the Apaches are not 'American built'. They are built by Westland in Britain under licence.
(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:09, Reply)

you do realise a load of the compnents don't come from the uk.
you do know we haven't "built" a full warship here for quite some time.

perhaps you mean assemble.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:10, Reply)

plus, you know, we also said the same thing about tanks.

( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:11, Reply)

You can argue over semantics as much as you like
But work that can be done in England won't be sent to an independent Scotland.
(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:12, Reply)

okay, thanks for the info.
sorry, what's your role in whitehall again?
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:13, Reply)

pencil case

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:14, Reply)

Much the same as yours I'd imagine.

(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:15, Reply)

The Clyde and Forth ports are busy building the new aircraft carriers
and get a share of all the other Navy contracts - like the Type 45 destroyers and the new generation of frigates.

Nowhere near as many jobs as back in the 30s admittedly, but it's still thousands of jobs out the window.
(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:00, Reply)

erm, derrrr
but why would you need to carry aircraft? they can fly, you idiot

lol
(quintsy, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:02, Reply)

right, so you're saying multi-national company BAE systems
will lose contacts, that it has already won, due to scottish independence. and BAE would revert to an English company, still being the largest arms firm in England.
Umm, why would the English government punish them and risk jobs in portsmouth and plymouth?
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:02, Reply)

Potsmouth and Plymouth are shit enough to be Scottish, and so the circle completes itself

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:05, Reply)

I'm not sure if your dimness is caused by coming from Glasgow or whether you were merely dropped on your head as a child
BAE can own shipyards wherever the fuck it likes, but if the 'English' MOD is writing the cheques, they can insist on which yards the ships are built in - e.g. Portsmouth, Plymouth, Barrow etc.

The contracts already signed will be honoured, but the MOD have already hinted that they won't be putting any future business in the direction of Scottish yards following independence.
(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:07, Reply)

I'd insist that they were built in Solihull

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:08, Reply)

yeah, but you see, that's bollocks.
the work is done in scottish yards for a reason chumpo.
and, it's cheaper. that might swing things. it's hardly like building them in fucking iran.
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:08, Reply)

Cost doesn't come into it. Votes do.
The English government won't send work north of the border if it means English yards suffer.

You're really not thinking this through at all.
(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:11, Reply)

pointless argument, of which you are worng, it won't happen anyway.

( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:12, Reply)

That's a compelling argument right there

(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:17, Reply)

Before WW1 ship work was spread out
across as many yards as possible to keep them going so in the event of war we could outbuild the Germans. Cost didn't come into it. Defence is dictated by politics, not cost.
(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:18, Reply)

www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/scottish-independence-navy-frigate-contracts-will-be-held-after-uk-split-vote-1-2479063
(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:19, Reply)

cheaper? bollocks
cheaper = Korea, see above
(localboy purveyor of pisspoor puns, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:14, Reply)

Gangnam Style!

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 15:17, Reply)

MRLP FTW
Although I'm not old enough to vote, so I dont reallly care.
(D.I.pshit solved another case on, Mon 15 Oct 2012, 16:59, Reply)