France in rare display of backbone shockah
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8480161.stm
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 17:55, 93 replies, latest was 16 years ago)

and how does that make you feel?

( Lisette von Falcon, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 18:10, Reply)

Surpised, the fucking cowards.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 18:14, Reply)

go on...
dig deeper...
( Lisette von Falcon, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 18:19, Reply)

One word: Vichy.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 18:21, Reply)

i cant stand the fucking french
and the irish
( rosalicious i fucking love youve been framed, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 18:50, Reply)

or the Brits

(MichaelS wasn't picked again, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:29, Reply)

at least
we don't occupy 25% of your country.
(knackerz is skinning up, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 23:34, Reply)

You've never been to Kilburn?

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 27 Jan 2010, 0:08, Reply)

yes
full of Jamacians, and I never knew it was a quarter of your land mass.
(knackerz is skinning up, Wed 27 Jan 2010, 2:21, Reply)

I don't know
How I feel about the bhurka to be honest.

I believe people should be allowed to do what they want. As long as it doesn't affect others. But then again, if I started bowling around in a motorbike helmet would it be accepted? At the end of the day, I suppose, there are actually security risks (however minor) with people having their whole faces hidden. Not sure I'd be comfortable with them being banned though as where would it end.
(Barry from Eastenders is, despite the words written above, not a woman, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 18:12, Reply)

im all for it with ugly women

( rosalicious i fucking love youve been framed, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 18:23, Reply)

I'm not quite sure where to buy one :(

( Lisette von Falcon, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 18:27, Reply)

shut up you crazy fool
WE ARE GODDESSES
( rosalicious i fucking love youve been framed, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 18:38, Reply)

you are with your glorious hair
I'm saving up for Heidi-esque surgey
( Lisette von Falcon, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 18:54, Reply)

...
Go on, tell the Amish they are banned from driving buggies. It's, like, repressive, innit.
(TheSnark oh, c'mon, like you didn't see me coming, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 23:08, Reply)

Just one difference.
The Amish are not trying to bomb us.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Tue 26 Jan 2010, 23:52, Reply)

Plus at a certain age they are given a choice to be a member of the church or not.
If they choose no, they do not lose their heads.
(MichaelS wasn't picked again, Wed 27 Jan 2010, 1:09, Reply)

It's a bit strange
given that some shops ban wearing hoodies now, and some places won't serve people with low-pulled hats etc that burkas are still acceptable.

I personally find it very discriminatory against women. To the extent that I know that almost anyone wearing a burka is someone I am unlikely to want to talk to
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 18:22, Reply)

ironylols

( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 21:10, Reply)

1. I think full body and face covering is a massive security risk in these dodgy times
2. I think it's grotesque control of women as possessions, up there with the Hassidic practice of shaving their women's heads. Primitive and repulsive.

So it's a dangerous and uncivilised practice, to my mind.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 18:34, Reply)

Don't you think that a topic as culturaly sensitive as this
deserves a bit more than two points*?

*both beginning with "I think"
(PsychoChomp, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 19:04, Reply)

Look if a topic can be sorted out
with a short bout of knee jerk reactionary vitriol then I say so much the better. Now, what about having the gays in schools?
(Bazongaloid, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:06, Reply)

I'm all for it
the kids need to learn and the sooner they do the better
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:20, Reply)

You fucking pinko commie hob breaking child abuser.

(Bazongaloid, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:29, Reply)

I'm all for banning the Burka,
If a minority of people feel just that little tiny bit better about their lives because of a personal choice I say take it away. I also think smoking, drinking, all highs legal or other wise, dancing, film and music should be banned. Oh and the Internet.
( Peej, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 18:37, Reply)

It's not really a minority
nor in many cases is it a 'personal choice.'
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 18:48, Reply)

Any act that represses women should be banned.
I have never read the Koran but I'm pretty sure it doesn't tell women to cover up so radically. I have no problem with women dressing modestly if that's what they wish but I abhor the fact that some Muslim women have been brainwashed into wearing the burka. It's one of the few things that really makes me very angry. They do it as not to incite men's passion ffs. Why do women have to be the ones who suffer because of mens inability to control their urges and don't get me started on the rape laws in Afganistan etc. There has to be a witness of the rape or else the women is charged with unlawful sex.

I saw a programme the other day about a 14 year old Muslim female boxer in Leeds and it gave me a good feeling inside that there are some Muslim families that fight against the tide of female oppression.

I could go on but I won't bore you with my feelings on the matter.
( girlinthehole, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 19:06, Reply)

CLICK
(Not because you won't go on but because I agree with you). There was a woman in Florida who sued to be allowed to wer her burka while driving.

She didn't win.
(MichaelS wasn't picked again, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:31, Reply)

You've never read the Qur'an
but you feel entitled to make judgements on what it does and doesn't contain?
(Bazongaloid, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:47, Reply)

I have read the Koran
I feel perfectly entitled to make judgements on what it contains. And BGB is right
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 21:04, Reply)

I've read it too. I agree she is right
and not a fake geordie
(MichaelS wasn't picked again, Wed 27 Jan 2010, 1:10, Reply)

It's global warming gone mad/I blame the credit crunch.

(Barry from Eastenders is, despite the words written above, not a woman, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 19:15, Reply)

oh i do wish Diana was here :(

( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:08, Reply)

and Jade and Baby P
they'd sort it out, like a modern day, English, useless A-Team
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:21, Reply)

and Maddy the little angel

( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:23, Reply)

SHUT UP
she's not dead!

(actually she is)
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:24, Reply)

She was once I'd finished with her

(Bazongaloid, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:28, Reply)

Hmmmm
Whatever the causes and effects of the hijab, banning it is telling people what to wear. That's not cool in my book. There's a principle, and violating it sets a precedent.
(Fancy a weekend on my Raymondo Luxury Yacht?, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:28, Reply)

That's easy for you to say.
You're male.
( girlinthehole, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:31, Reply)

You have a point
more than most here I reckon. However the problem is primarily in the religious culture - that's what should be tackled. No one is actually forcing those French women to wear burkas, unless they are using illegal coercion.

I do accept that the situation is fucked and wince whenever I see that headgear.
(Fancy a weekend on my Raymondo Luxury Yacht?, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:35, Reply)

There is probably both illegal coercion and the fear of being shunned by their
family and everything they know that is also a type of coercion.
(MichaelS wasn't picked again, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:39, Reply)

There are plenty of women
who willingly wear the veil as they believe it is right and proper for them to do so. I disagree entirely with them and think they are fucking retards, but if they want to do that then they should be allowed.
(Bazongaloid, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:46, Reply)

Ignorance is bliss for you.

( girlinthehole, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:49, Reply)

It's like you're reading a totally different reply to the one i've written.
I'll say it a third time.

You have the right to wear what you want. There are many muslim women who simply will not appear in public without a full veil, so by banning the veil you are effectively putting them under house arrest. Your views and my views about the stupidity of this has no relevance to their right to wear whatever they want to.
(Bazongaloid, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:53, Reply)

So we let it be then?

( girlinthehole, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 21:02, Reply)

If they want to go for it but if they do it because they know no difference or are in fear
then they are not able to make a free choice. The "honor" killings conducted by some fanatical family members are just a sympton of the situation.
(MichaelS wasn't picked again, Wed 27 Jan 2010, 1:14, Reply)

They are being forced, albiet surreptiously.
The wearing of the burka is not a religious indoctrination but a cultural one, the same as infibulation and shaving heads for the Hassidic women.
( girlinthehole, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:39, Reply)

Could say that about an infinite amount of things
The world is fucked, always has been.
(Fancy a weekend on my Raymondo Luxury Yacht?, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 21:04, Reply)

Oh don't be so ridiculous
lots of people do lots of things I find fucking disgusting, such as buying the Daily Mail, or voting for Boris Johnson, but the whole point of a free society is that these people can do that if they so choose.

Banning people from wearing a veil has fuck all to do with protection of women, it's an outright attack on freedom of expression. If they wanted to protect women from oppression there are lots of other things they could do. This is not one of them and will almost certainly lead to women, who previously could go out and interact with people whilst wearing their veils, being effectively locked up at home.
(Bazongaloid, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:40, Reply)

damn you Al
you are a gigantic arsebandit and an argumentative bastard, but you do speak sense when it counts
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:41, Reply)

Like you would know sense
you hob-breaking-cheese-eating-child-abuser
(Bazongaloid, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:44, Reply)

^THIS
Poor Blousie, she no politician but she drunk and hate wimmins opreshun, quite rightly. faredeplay.

*am I turning into gonz while he's ill?*
(Fancy a weekend on my Raymondo Luxury Yacht?, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 21:44, Reply)

Bollocks.
You have no idea what you are talking about

I am no idealist, theologian or intellectual but one thing I do know about is women's rights and the history of female repression so shut up right now or I will get very angry.
( girlinthehole, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:47, Reply)

No
you're wrong.

I just said, the ban has nothing to do with womens rights and oppression and will only have a negative effect in this regard. The right to wear a full burkha, or whatever the fuck you want to wear is essential to any society that calls itself free.

The fact that the burkha is usually a symbol of what I would consider stupid misguided individuals makes no difference what so ever. This ban is not a good idea.
(Bazongaloid, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:51, Reply)

I never said the ban WAS a good idea.
Please pay attention.
( girlinthehole, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:52, Reply)

"Any act that represses women should be banned.
I have never read the Koran but I'm pretty sure it doesn't tell women to cover up so radically."

So to follow your logic, you think that because they cover up it's oppression of women and therefore should be banned.
(Bazongaloid, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 20:54, Reply)

Yes but I'm drunk and I'm posting things in the heat of the moment.
I stand by my first statement but I also realise that you can't change things overnight by a blanket ban on everyone's religious indoctrination.

Just agreeing that things are wrong but you accept their right to be indoctrinated is a cop out.

Edit - You can never have the same feeling of anger to this as you will never have to worry about this being an issue for you.
( girlinthehole, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 21:00, Reply)

Pip pip

(Fancy a weekend on my Raymondo Luxury Yacht?, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 21:06, Reply)

the way I look at
is that most of those women will need to leave the house anyway (since their husbands sure as fuck aren't going to be doing the shopping, picking up the kids and tidying the garden) so in fact they will still get out and about. And maybe now they'll have the option of face-to-face contact, and possibly the glimmering of a realisation that heaven hasn't struck them dead, and that maybe, just maybe all those pretty French woman with their uncovered hair and faces and lives and jobs and careers might have something right
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 21:08, Reply)

Yes
yes this is exactly what will happen. Absolutely. The fact that they've been walking around up until now seeing exactly the same things and yet they still choose to follow their religion in the way they do will magically change just because of the ban.

I really am trying to make this point as clearly as I can, this ban is not going to have any effect on women who choose or are coerced into wearing a burkha, they will still be in that situation. If you strongly believe this is wrong then you should look into how you can prevent this form happening, but I strongly believe that anyone should have the right to wear whatever they want to wear out in public if they so choose.
(Bazongaloid, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 21:40, Reply)

I'm not saying they will magically change
I'm saying that when they realised they're not being smited by God, sexually assaulted by men for showing a face or anything of the sort, that it might have some positive impact.
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 22:06, Reply)

That's the French for you, no fashion sense.
I was on an exchange trip to Paris when I was 14 and they were all wearing shellsuits.
Où sont les gendarmes de la mode?
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 21:15, Reply)

Il n'est bon bec que de Paris
I beg to differ

Edit: I thought you were doing a riff on "ou sont les neiges d'antan" but on reflection this seems unlikely and I'm making no sense. But 50 gazillion points to anyone who knows what I'm on about.
(Fancy a weekend on my Raymondo Luxury Yacht?, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 21:45, Reply)

That's Star Wars conventions fucked
Nobody can go as the Imperial Guard now
nirahlee.com/iswwr/evidence/Imperial_Royal_Guard_by_TheAphex.jpg
(SpunkyMcSpunkbubble Diddled your nubbin on, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 21:24, Reply)

I think I've come up with a solution everyone will be happy with:
Hang the bounders.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 22:43, Reply)

string 'em up
it's the only language they understand
(Fancy a weekend on my Raymondo Luxury Yacht?, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 23:13, Reply)

Hanging's too good for them!
Outraged, Glasgow
(Cancer Joy was short lived, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 23:41, Reply)

They come over here,
impersonate our letterboxes...
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 23:49, Reply)

Is that the JPO?
Jihadi Post Office?
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Tue 26 Jan 2010, 23:52, Reply)

You have, I presume,
heard of 'letter bombs'?
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 27 Jan 2010, 0:07, Reply)

Well of course.
I may live in a northern backwater but the 21st century hasn't totally passed me by, old chap.

I've also heard that you can elect your chosen political party of choice these days. Who'd have thought it? Next thing you know, women will be working!
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Wed 27 Jan 2010, 0:12, Reply)

Simply scandalous.
*lights cigar*

It's the Pakistanis, you know. Ghastly fellows. Can't understand a bloody word they're saying, what?
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 27 Jan 2010, 0:17, Reply)

*Raises glass*
*Ironically*

Right, bed calls. Pip pip, old bean.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Wed 27 Jan 2010, 0:31, Reply)

laïcity!

( Sir Sand GOBLIN ^popular page dis, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 23:21, Reply)

I like kittens.

( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Tue 26 Jan 2010, 23:29, Reply)

i like breasts.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 23:38, Reply)

I like kitten breasts
Especially if the kitten is wearing a burka so I can't see them. Do burkas cover breasts? Surely it's bras that cover breasts, and bras are a bit phwooaar, eh? Eh?
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Tue 26 Jan 2010, 23:42, Reply)

PHWOOOAAARRR
EDIT: mindphwoooarr
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 23:47, Reply)

You're not stoned/tripping/high are you old boy?

( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Tue 26 Jan 2010, 23:53, Reply)

Is my diction faltering?

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 23:54, Reply)

It was just the edit that confused me.
Mind you, I'm as cissed as a punt and no mistake.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Tue 26 Jan 2010, 23:55, Reply)

I started posting phwoooaar
before you added your own phwooar. Thus I assumed synchronicity. Yes old boy, I am fucking hammered.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 26 Jan 2010, 23:57, Reply)

NEWS JUST IN: I think
the police may be raiding the brothel at the end of my street. It's frightfully noisy out there.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 27 Jan 2010, 0:02, Reply)

Phwooooaaaaar.
You have a brothel at the end of your street? What a frightfully delightful neighbourhood you must live in. All exotic, like.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Wed 27 Jan 2010, 0:07, Reply)

The nearest thing I ever got to such exoticness
Was when my next door neighbour use to remember that all her bras were hanging on the washing line and would dash out into the garden, tits on display, to grab one.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Wed 27 Jan 2010, 0:10, Reply)

Basically the same story,
but regionally adjusted.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 27 Jan 2010, 0:12, Reply)

It's rather 'chi-chi', donchaknow
I have a local pal Ray who is the absolute spit of Huggy Bear who was recently regaling me with a tale of one of his chums who refused to pay the requisite £35 BUT INSTEAD PAID £25!!!!

How we laughed.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 27 Jan 2010, 0:11, Reply)

Ho ho ho.

( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Wed 27 Jan 2010, 0:13, Reply)

: a meagre £75 for Ray's friend

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 27 Jan 2010, 0:15, Reply)

your diction is fine
but you did make a spooling mistook......
(Purpledoris I've got afeckin' job, Wed 27 Jan 2010, 9:53, Reply)

I have no idea what's going on but I will say that I'm massively drunk
INTERNET CONTROVERSY!
(Fancy a weekend on my Raymondo Luxury Yacht?, Wed 27 Jan 2010, 2:25, Reply)

Being a xenophobic and intolerant sort, I don't know what to think
As I hate the French and that religion in equal measure.

Yrs,

N Griffin.
(The Boy Monders I have ginger bits in my beard., Wed 27 Jan 2010, 8:28, Reply)

One reason they force the women to wear the burkas is that it makes women modest and it's
sexy to see a woman's hand or ear or anything other than a shapless pile of cloth.

It would be strange to live in a society where if you see a woman’s hand or face it is considered porn and excites you. Maybe by forcing the women to take off their burkas or chadors, all of the men will be so horny they won't have time to think about jihad or bombing anyone because they will be so busy wanking 24 hours a day.

(I know, politically incorrect, not really funny, poorly written, etc) Shoot me.

I do know I would rather not see someone in a burka in an airport as in Iraq there were a number of bombings conducted by men dressed as women in burka type clothing. Also, I am not sure what banks think about someone coming into a bank with their identity completely disguised. Isn’t that what bank robbers do?
(MichaelS wasn't picked again, Wed 27 Jan 2010, 12:46, Reply)