Atheism as a faith.
I just LOVE winding up atheists by pointing out that atheism is, in fact, a faith. The existence or non-existence of a god cannot be proven- if it could, the debate would have been over thousands of years ago- so firmly maintaining that God does not exist is an act of faith.

(Stating that you don't believe he exists is perfectly valid, of course.)

I just love watching their heads spin.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Thu 19 May 2011, 20:41, 58 replies)

Not that I am going to get into this really
but I don't buy the premise of that entire argument and think that trying to frame it in such a way is just a cheap rhetorical trick.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Thu 19 May 2011, 20:45, closed)

I didn't go into detail
because I didn't want to start a genuine troll in here- I've done that in the past and had fun with it, but didn't really feel up to doing it again. But I do stand by the statement that being atheist is just as much an act of faith as being Catholic, just in the opposite direction.

This is best done with people who've been drinking.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Thu 19 May 2011, 20:49, closed)

Ah, you should have caught me a year or so ago then
What other people believe or don't is no skin off my cock really, but I probably would have bitten if I'd been pissed, yeah.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Thu 19 May 2011, 20:52, closed)

If your parents were jewish it would have been.

(Woodlouse say it with flowers. Send her a Triffid, Thu 19 May 2011, 21:04, closed)

Good point
I could probably have used a more appropriate phrase there.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Thu 19 May 2011, 21:05, closed)

This is actually really funny.

( PMGT -Bacon., Fri 20 May 2011, 0:29, closed)

Fuck. How much do we have to drink before we sink to your intellectual level?
I mean ... there's a few cases of wine over there and a hefty booze cupboard ... but I think I'll probably still need to nip down to the corner shop for a few litres of tramp cider.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Thu 19 May 2011, 21:13, closed)

Not if you do it right
it's not.
(cypherspace is not a toaster, Thu 19 May 2011, 22:37, closed)

I'm an Atheist, and that made sense.
Thinking there is no big magic man in the sky is indeed a belief, much like my belief that reality TV is finally dying.
( Bourbon Fox Bourbon is a moron, Thu 19 May 2011, 20:47, closed)

Pretty much.
And I should state for the record that I'm an agnostic- I don't really take a strong stance one way or the other because it doesn't really matter to me.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Thu 19 May 2011, 20:50, closed)

Agnosticism is a position on the knowability of the supernatural. A-gnosticism.
It's not a middle position between theism and atheism.

One can be an agnostic atheist, an agnostic theist, a gnostic theist and even, at a stretch, a gnostic atheist.

It's not really a case of it not mattering to you, it's a case of you having no idea what you're talking about.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Thu 19 May 2011, 21:10, closed)

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2]

Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable.[1][2][3]
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Thu 19 May 2011, 21:16, closed)

Smashing. You've almost learned how to cut'n'paste.
Now which part of my post would you like me to explain?
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Thu 19 May 2011, 21:19, closed)

Awww, how cute.
Gotta try harder than that, young padawan.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Thu 19 May 2011, 21:23, closed)

Try harder at what? Attempting a coherent adult conversation with somebody as thick as you?
Doesn't really seem worth the effort.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Thu 19 May 2011, 21:30, closed)

Thought I'd quote that in full as you accidentally missed a bit
"Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[4][5] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[5][6]"
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Thu 19 May 2011, 21:21, closed)

lol

(Roxon, Thu 19 May 2011, 23:49, closed)

You are no fun.
We don't want reasonable people, we want militant believers / non believers who go off on one.

Try again.
( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Thu 19 May 2011, 20:50, closed)

I'm sorry. I'm sure one will come along soon.

( Bourbon Fox Bourbon is a moron, Thu 19 May 2011, 20:53, closed)

It's not really about saying that there's no GOD, to me at least.
Rather, that I don't follow any religion nor believe in any kind of deity at all.

Faith is very different from religion, a set doctrine. It's personal. I have every faith that most biscuits in my biscuit tin are very delicious, as much I do that there are no deities.
( vix0r was not Matthew on, Thu 19 May 2011, 20:54, closed)

Why do British people make the bestest Atheists?
I will now use this example in addition to quoting Douglas Adams.
(Smoked Oysters Yes, magick helmet! And I will give you a sample!, Fri 20 May 2011, 9:10, closed)

religious faith is very specifically the belief in something that cannot be demonstrated
so, techincally, you can't have faith in your biscuits being delicious unless you have no way of opening the tin. You can believe it, though. Belief isn't constrained by the removal of burden of proof.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 20 May 2011, 11:56, closed)

It's an absence of belief.
The only people who actively disbelieve are the believers in other faiths.

The mistake you are making is projecting your own shallow understanding of a word and assuming everybody else is just as dim.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Thu 19 May 2011, 21:02, closed)

It's an absence of faith surely?
Like I don't believe in Faeries. Is the lack of belief in faeries a faith?
(mr-lizard Hell's teeth man!, Thu 19 May 2011, 21:04, closed)

I'm a militant a-faerie-ist.
I go around telling schoolgirls that their toy fairies are shit.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Thu 19 May 2011, 21:11, closed)

bullshit
atheism is an absence of belief / faith.

It doesn't equate to an alternative to theism
( Ring Of Fire A petty, drooling belming butthurt retard., Thu 19 May 2011, 21:04, closed)

?!
Sounds to me like you understand neither your own religious faith, nor do you understand basic ancient Greek.

It may well be that people who call themselves atheists aren't in fact a-theists, but this wouldn't be far removed from the case of people who call themselves Christian who aren't really (as in that JC probably wouldn't want to hang out in a club with them).

Last time I read his autobiography JC stood for Jesus Christ, not Judgemental Cunt. This is a detail that seems to have been lost in translation over past two millennia.

Anyway, try this for trolling: There are two types of Christian...

... those who have a bad memory of sucking their priests cock at a young age
... those who have blocked it out of their memory
(Wilton Mitrowserz, Thu 19 May 2011, 21:06, closed)

That is a disgusting thing to say about Christians
you mean Catholics.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Thu 19 May 2011, 21:09, closed)

Yup, that's cute argument.
Now how about a blow job?
(Me, I'm not... in any way intoxicated, Thu 19 May 2011, 21:12, closed)

For once it isn't Vagabond trolling for attention.
(Dildo Bugger destroyed a ring on, Thu 19 May 2011, 21:21, closed)

Yes atheism is a faith
and bald is a hair colour
( emvee cruor deo cruoris, Thu 19 May 2011, 21:44, closed)

He's very sensitive about his slaphead.
You awful bully.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Thu 19 May 2011, 21:51, closed)

I agree with both of you.
I'm sure that's a great comfort.
( shinyshinyscalp less a man, more a way of life, Fri 20 May 2011, 11:11, closed)

By your reasoning, refusal to believe in the flying spaghetti monster is also a 'faith'.

( 4Q just lurking, Thu 19 May 2011, 22:39, closed)

Let's leave his noodly goodness out of this, if it weren't for the midget he drunkenly created, I myself would have never been created.
(god himself could really use a day off, Fri 20 May 2011, 4:45, closed)

Don't be a troll, dude.
...oh I see, that's the point. I think I'll come back next week when it's all over.
( Sextant goes to him is emotionally erect, on this day, Fri 20 May 2011, 0:03, closed)

Show me an atheist who says they can prove there's no god
and I'll show you a straw man you've just made up so you can feel superior.
"a" = without
"theism" = belief in a deity
( Zuowan, Fri 20 May 2011, 5:24, closed)

As much as it pains me
as an atheist to say, there are those of us who can be every bit as dogmatic as Christians.
( Ithyphallophobia, Sun 22 May 2011, 11:32, closed)

In that case they are Antitheists.

( Zuowan, Tue 24 May 2011, 15:22, closed)

The difference
is that I don't get upset by religious types trying to convince me that there's a mythical man in the sky, nor do I get upset when they tell me that there *is* a heaven etc...
I don't get upset when someone tells me that there's an invisible pink unicorn ruling the universe.
I can't prove the existence of Pluto or Phobos - I don't have a decent enough scope, therefore is it faith that makes me believe that they exist?
I suppose, in a way it is.
(dchurch bah, Fri 20 May 2011, 9:50, closed)

HTH

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 20 May 2011, 9:52, closed)

I like to think that us humans are becoming God - ie omnipresent & omnipotent; "God is an excuse for the scientifically unexplained"

Happy to accept that there is an element of 'faith' in this, but faith based on rational thought, not water-walking.

Having read plenty of Dawkins' books, I'm actually a lot more relaxed about it and less likely to want to 'win' any debate.
*
Two cannibals are eating an atheist, and one says to the other, “Can you believe the way this guy tastes?”
*

Meh. LOLZ
( elgordo, Fri 20 May 2011, 10:28, closed)

WOWF! BOWOWOWOWOWOWOWF! WOF! WOFOFOFOF! BOWOWOWOWOWOW!

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 20 May 2011, 10:32, closed)

Dawkins is a brilliant evolutionary geneticist
but he is a cunt.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 20 May 2011, 11:59, closed)

You say that like it's a bad thing.

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 20 May 2011, 12:37, closed)

true
I sometimes feel he doesn't do himself any favours, though. Mind you, I'm sure he couldn't give less of a shit, so fair enough.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 20 May 2011, 13:21, closed)

He's married to Romana.
What the fuck else does he need to worry about?
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 20 May 2011, 14:37, closed)

I don't think you'll find many atheists that get wound up by this, just a bit bored and disinterested.

Say for arguments sake atheism is a faith (which it isn't) through their "belief" there is no God. Their "faith", unproven or not, is a balanced conclusion arrived at based largely on the irrefutable logic and evidence in science and the world around them pointing towards the fact God and fairies don't exist.

...Rather than say, Christian faith, which is based largely on, well, a book someone once wrote about a weirdy beardy cloud man in the sky.

I genuinely once heard a Christian use the argument: "What is it with you atheists, always getting bogged down with "proof"?"
(DBS, Fri 20 May 2011, 11:21, closed)

You mean...
uninterested
(flimflam_machine, Fri 20 May 2011, 17:35, closed)

What utter horseshit.
I no more have faith in the absence of a god than I have faith in the absence of small pgymy Aberdeen Angus cow just over my left shoulder in my office. Atheism has nothing to do with faith. There is absolutley no requirement for belief or faith in the non-existence of anything. This has been done to death. See: Russell's Teapot, The Dragon in my Garage.

The problem with your argument (well apart from the fact it's really very silly) is a) you've misunderstood what the words "belief" and "faith" mean and b) you're approaching it from direction that both theist and atheist viewpoints have equal weight and this is some kind of "burdern of proof" thing.

Thesims and religion exist because you NEED faith to place your trust in something that can never be demonstrably proved. That's the whole basis of religious worship. You don't need anything to consider the non-existence of something as your position.

"What is the difference between an invisible, silent, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits fire with no heat; and no dragon at all? If there's no way to disprove your contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, how does it mean anything to say that your dragon exists?"
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 20 May 2011, 11:53, closed)

now how much do I have to pay you to cross your bridge?

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 20 May 2011, 12:23, closed)

LOL
I see what you did there
( buffet_the_appetite_slayer ٩(●̮̃•)۶ jacked in to the ICE on, Fri 20 May 2011, 12:17, closed)

I hope you don't think he's pretending to be thick just to get a rise out of people.
Rather than genuinely being thick.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 20 May 2011, 12:31, closed)

what a childish thing to do
MEGALOLZ + WAFFLECOPTER + OMGZ

I gotz da bad AIDS pa
( elgordo, Fri 20 May 2011, 13:49, closed)

You're still blathering in here?
Haven't you already said enough? [nsfw]
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Fri 20 May 2011, 14:40, closed)

Awww. Is the ickul thickie resorting to adolescent japes because he's too dim to put together an argument?
:(
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Fri 20 May 2011, 15:26, closed)

Excellent work there.
Posting NSFW links without tagging them, now THERE'S a top mature way to debate. Kind of like the internet equivalent of putting a dog turd in someone's schoolbag.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 20 May 2011, 16:08, closed)

Putting a dog turd in someones schoolbag? Never did that at school but a top idea; think I might do it to my colleagues. Bonus points if the dog actually shits in the bag?
(mcnelson, Sat 21 May 2011, 15:48, closed)