Opinions on a postcard please....
I went out with a very good mate of mine on Friday for a fairly heavy night, and she told me that her and my flatmate (her boyfriend) had had a threesome with another friend of mine. What she didn't know is that I'm pretty good mates with his girlfriend. The girlfriend and him were round at ours for dinner a week or so ago, where they were talking about wanting kids. Now that I know what he's been up to I feel physically sick hearing all this shit with hindsight. I can't see him again, but I also can't let him know that I know.

Why do people do this to peole they supposedly love? The two of them have been together for ever and I've always looked up to them as a pairing. Knowing this would destroy her.

In my opinion, anyone who cheats on their partner should be forced to watch their daughters raped in front of them, to gain even a modicum of understanding of the pain they have caused to the other person.

/rant
( Madam Marlboro wonders if you've found her yet, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 13:28, 59 replies, latest was 16 years ago)

Daughter raping seems a bit harsh
but kick the cunt in the cock and balls.
(Holy Cremola Foam Batman will be back on, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 13:32, Reply)

Physical pain hurts for a while
But psychological pain will take far longer to heal.
( Madam Marlboro wonders if you've found her yet, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 13:34, Reply)

Psych Pain
...is absolutely the worst thing in the world.

Have you tried talking to the chap that you know; for example, do you know that his participation was absolutely enthusiastic or was he going along with it? It in no way gives him a "bye" for his actions, but may cast them in a separate light.

Behind closed doors, we all do things that we're ashamed of.
(Eds Meds Mathskillz=1,Socialskillz=0, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 13:36, Reply)

He's asked them
if they would consider making it a permenant arrangement.
( Madam Marlboro wonders if you've found her yet, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 13:38, Reply)

ngg
thats a bit fucked to say the least, I would just steer clear of everything and try not to get hit in the bound to ensue shit flinging personally, however always offer an ear to them all, and feel free to point out exactly how much of a cunt the cheat is, preferably to his face.

this is another good example why im single, trust has to be earned before I will commit to someone.
(Halfy By light alone, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 13:38, Reply)

Don't make the mistake I did
by getting pissed and blurting it out to the cheated partner ....

Lost me a very good friend for a long time. Alcohol + secrets = not a good thing.

I'd be inclined to let the cheating barsteward know that you know what he's up to - sometimes the threat of being found out scares them into not doing it again.
(TheWeeWitch hasn't been here much recently .., Mon 29 Sep 2008, 13:54, Reply)

@MM
In which case his preposterous behaviour should cause social ostracism.

The only decision therefore must be one of working out how to deal with it yourself.

IMHO (which is unlikely to be valuable, as the answer must come from you) the encouragement must come from you to him to 'fess up.
(Eds Meds Mathskillz=1,Socialskillz=0, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 13:57, Reply)

There is a real risk of becoming a social pariah, but I'm going to say it.....
....my opinion (for what it's worth) is to stay the hell out of it!

Life is complex enough on your own, you don't need to add to it.

If you do say something and this all blows up, what's the best that can happen? You now have a bunch of friends who don't trust each other and, in all probability won't talk to you, either. Your flatmate won't want to know you because everything has gone "Pete Tong" for him (relationship-wise) and your good friend won't like you because you betrayed her trust. Naturally, you should be there for the offended parties if it does come out, but don't initiate it.

Needless to say, if your "good friend" was your friend, she shouldn't have told you that crumb of information and kept it to herself. Now she's plunged you into the middle of a situation, you don't want to be in!

So feign ignorance and be there if/when all hell breaks loose.

That's my take on the whole thing.....so it goes a long way to explaining why I'm such a miserable frigger! :O)
(The Stig, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 13:57, Reply)

My problem is
that she told me in strictest confidence. And she's a very good mate. She also didn't reall know anything about his partner, as she doesn't hang out in the same circle as her much. So when she told me, it was in a gossipy 'isn't this funny' kind of way. I just know them as a couple and no, it's not funny.
( Madam Marlboro wonders if you've found her yet, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 13:58, Reply)

You'll have to tell
your girlfriend who had the threesome, that you're very good friends with the other girl and tell her that you've been put in a very difficult position.

Don't approach the cheating boyfriend, as far as he knows nobody's blabbed and it'll just cause more arguments if he feels betrayed by his friends. I appreciate that he doesn't deserve much in the way of consideration, but it will make things easier on the innocent parties, including yourself, if he doesn't get shouted at by you.

Tell your threesome friend that you don't know how you're going to be able to keep their secret and it's up to them to put a stop to it or tell the guy's girlfriend. I wouldn't go as far as to give them an ultimatum of the "you tell her or I will" variety. Just make it clear that you're torn between two friends and you're more likely to side with the victim than you are them.

That's what I'd do, anyway. I realise that you're not asking for advice on how to deal with it. Just trying to be helpful.
( Kroney, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 14:00, Reply)

Thanks for the advice guys
I wasn't planning on telling him I knew, and I have written her a letter to that effect Kroney. I'm not about to go meddling with things that have nothing to do with me. I'm just so angry with him right now and so I'm venting it on b3ta, as I can't talk to anyone about it.
( Madam Marlboro wonders if you've found her yet, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 14:03, Reply)

Even so, MM.....
....I would feign ignorance. Look at this logically, you clearly don't want to be in the middle of this. So, if you hush up and don't say anything, nothing can be traced back to you.

And if it DOES come out and your friend really is your good friend, then she'll say you didn't know.

The only problem is, you'll have to learn to switch off your conscience. I remember a time when I would have told the girlfriend. But experience taught me, that when you get in the middle of something you don't want to be in, nobody wins.

Oh well, life goes on.....
(The Stig, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 14:04, Reply)

Right...
Fuckin' difficult situation.
I wouldn't ever cheat on a partner, I know some people do, but... It's just something I couldn't do.

My advice would be to tell the girlfriend of the guy who cheated.
If he's done it before, he could do it again, and the longer it's left, the worse it'd be when she does find out.

From your point of view, if she finds out, and knows that you knew, that'd be a friendship ruined, through no fault of your own.

Obviously this is just what I'd do, I'm not saying it's the "Right Thing".
( Cawl, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 14:08, Reply)

Sorry to hear you're in this situation MM
Personally I wouldn't tell his girlfriend as it denies the scumbag the opportunity of doing the right thing and being honest with her.

I'd go with a quiet word with the girl who told you about all of this to determine whether speaking to the bloke about it will put you in too (much more) difficult a position.
( Captain V, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 14:14, Reply)

Stig
I'm not going to say anything to anyone. But repressing my conscience is hardly an answer. I have been shat upon by far too many people in my life, and if other people had the balls to do what they thought was right then I would be a much happier person. I have no fear of recrimination, as I think people have a right to know when the facts would totally alter their viewpoint.
( Madam Marlboro wonders if you've found her yet, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 14:15, Reply)

MM...
It's not so much "having the balls" it's more "not trying to get involved". Let's face it, you clearly don't want to be where you are, do you?

As for the "conscience" comment, that was more of an aside, nothing more.

I don't deny that it's a tough spot to be in.

Like I said earlier, it's why I'm such as miserable frigger! :O)
(The Stig, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 14:21, Reply)

Its a bastard
but getting involved in other peaples relationships never ever works out for the good.

8 times out of 10 they will forgive each other, and then band together against the bearer of the bad news, i.e. you.

And the remaining 2 times out of 10 where they ditch the errant partner, they will subconciously blame you for the breakup on the basis of ignorance is bliss.

Best you can do is grin and bear it. Good luck
( RadG Drinking Mojitos in the sun, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 14:34, Reply)

Very difficult situation here
Jeez MM, that's a horrible situation to be in. On one hand you've got your conscience and anger at the situation telling you that you cannot simply do nothing, while on the other you'll be aware that if you do spill the beans to the wronged party and her partner rescues the situation then all her anguish will be directed back at you.

I don't envy you one bit, I suppose the best thing you can do is be there for the girl if/when she finds out. In my experience, people's disrespect for their partners seldom goes unnoticed for long.
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Mon 29 Sep 2008, 14:38, Reply)

My 2 penceworth
Firstly, it's fairly twuntish behaviour. Infidelity is a motherfucker .... If you can't stay faithful then get out of the relationship and shag around. You can't have your cake and fuck it.

Silence is golden in this instance. I have some rather promiscuous but married associates who would shag the hole in a donut if they could. They're aware that I have no desire whatsoever to know the details of their sordid encounters. As RadG rightly states; The messenger is invariably the first casualty.
(SpunkyMcSpunkbubble Diddled your nubbin on, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 15:09, Reply)

I'm a bit late in the game here
but I see that others have been giving the advice that I would give as well- stay the hell out of it as much as possible. The Stig has it right- feign ignorance. Be there to console and comfort and support- but do NOT get involved, as it will only end up biting you, hard.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Mon 29 Sep 2008, 15:19, Reply)

Tell Mr Threesome that you know
and then leave well alone.
Let his own fear that you'll tell combine with his guilt and break him down.
( thealternativefact, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 15:27, Reply)

exactly this
has happened to my flatmate. her best friend's fiance got really drunk at her birthday party and blabbed to all of us about the threesome he'd had with 2 hot blondes in krakow the weekend before.

meanwhile his gf was down the other end of the table telling everyone else the story of how they got together 4 years ago and how he proposed.

we've argued this out since, and i am firmly of the opinion that he loves his fiancee, but a threesome was just too much to turn down.

my flatmate is devastated, as she feels she ought to tell her friend, but knows it's not her place to do it.

very very difficult, you have my sympathies MM. sex with odd numbers just doesn't work!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 15:46, Reply)

Rswipe
"a threesome was just too much to turn down."

Bollocks IMHO.

If you truly love someone, then you pass up on the threesomes. Kroney is spot on.
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Mon 29 Sep 2008, 15:54, Reply)

Well he obviously doesn't love her
as much as he should to marry her. Threesome too much to turn down? Rubbish.
( Kroney, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 15:56, Reply)

.
Do you know if she knows what he has done?

Maybe he wanted a threes up and she wanted no part of it?

I don't envy you tho, you are screwed from all angles, sorry.
(Barry Chuckle has gone out in the thong to feed the pigeons, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 16:06, Reply)

@PJM
I'm not entirely sure I can agree with you on this one, simply because this is such a touchy and individual matter. Some couples are good with having a more or less open relationship, some demand strict monogamy, and others are somewhere in the middle.

There is no hard and fast rule about any aspect of sexuality or relationships. It's like saying that people are either gay or straight- there are too many shades in between. Same thing applies to monogamy- some are very good at it and some aren't. And some people are comfortable with open relationships while others aren't.

I can definitely see the viewpoint of someone who says that the threesome was too good to pass up- it would be someone whose needs were not being met in a monogamous relationship. That said, he DOES owe it to her to let her know that his needs are not being met, and that he is seeking out what he needs elsewhere. She has to be fully aware of this. If she is and she's okay with it, then all is good. If he's doing this on the sly and she would not be comfortable with it, that's another matter entirely.

But no matter what, it is NOT up to MM to break that news to her. He has to be the one to do it. I say again: she needs to stay the hell out of it.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Mon 29 Sep 2008, 16:45, Reply)

Whatever happens between two (or more) consenting adults is fine...
...however this girl obviously does not know that her partner is doinking someone else behind her back, worse still it involves a couple of her friends. How do you think she'll feel when/if she finds out?
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Mon 29 Sep 2008, 16:51, Reply)

well, to answer the "why do people do this?" question
It's pretty much a given that nobody outside of a couple's relationship can ever fully understand what goes on in that relationship, even if they try to read all the signs, so while it's always tempting to judge others by our own relationship beliefs, it isn't always accurate.

Learnt that the hard way.
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 16:53, Reply)

Whether that rswipe's guy
thought the threesome was too good to pass up on or not is irrelevant. I will bet you ten pounds of our finest English sterling that he didn't do it with the fiancee's consent. I will bet you a further ten-spot that she absolutely wouldn't be ok with it.

If he was willing to go behind her back and do something he knew she wouldn't be ok with, then he doesn't love her as much as he says he does.

Edited for clarity
( Kroney, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 16:54, Reply)

Do we know that she's unaware?
It may be that she does know and is okay with it. I doubt that even MM can really answer that.

Not enough info, I'm afraid. I can't really advise a course of action, as to whether MM should approach him and let him know that she's aware or if she should just stay completely out of it. That would depend on her relationship with the two of them. But even doing that much is taking a huge risk that may result in losing friends.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Mon 29 Sep 2008, 16:54, Reply)

I am certainly not going to be betting against Kroney.
I've a feeling he's spot on.
( thealternativefact, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 16:59, Reply)

@ clendrix
My money is with Loony.

No-one can possibly understand what goes on in a relationship, because we can NEVER know all the facts. Maybe they DO have a "special relationship" or maybe she doesn't know. Fact is, we don't know for sure.

Simpler to stay out of it. The first casualty of a conflict is always the messenger, no matter how good our intentions are.
(The Stig, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 17:07, Reply)

I'm with Kroney
it's all well and good people saying feign ignorance, but part of the problem is that you know that you know, and pretending you don't isn't going to make that go away.

It's best kept between you and the person who told you, for now at least, and give them a chance to make sure this shit is sorted.

Another argument against playing dumb, when this comes out, and it will, it would also come out that you knew about it. this is a fact.

edit: I always claim that one of my abiding philosophies is to the path of least resistance, but I agree with Ancrenne on this point, some times you've got to follow your morals, even if it does make things uncomfortable for a while.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 17:32, Reply)

I don't know what's going on in my relationship!

However cheating on someone is a shitty thing to do whatever the circumstances, if there is something wrong in the relationship talk about don't go messing about.

The other couple are as much to blame, some friends they are.

MM if you tell her you'll be in the shit.

If you don't you'll feel like shit.

If you don't and she finds out you knew you'll be doubley in the shit.


If one of my friends knew my girlfriend had cheated on me I would want them to tell me.
I would probably be pissed off with them, but in time my relationship would either survive, in which case it was strong and worth saving.

Or we would break up and it would be horrid and messy, but in the long run I wouldn't be with a cheating bitch.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 17:37, Reply)

but
if you are not part of this couple then you don't know what the status is, no matter how it may seem. Sure, it may seem like there's cheating going on - and maybe that's the case - but there could well be more shades of grey to all this. Nothing is cut and dried. But it's no one's business but theirs.

See, question is: do you want to tell her because it will make you feel better (e.g. less guilty for knowing something she might not)? Do you want to tell her because if you were in that position you'd want to know? Do you want to tell her because you feel it is your moral and friendly duty?

Not trying to turn your troubles into some sort of ethical dilemma, just curious as to how much we project our own expectations into such scenarios.
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 17:42, Reply)

when we were introduced to these people
we thought, he's punching way above his weight - he's a fat slob and his gf is this beautiful american girl. then we got chatting and he was so clever and funny, we thought he was great.

but when he slurred that out, we all immediately thought, what a cock - his fiancee could do so much better, and he's potentially thrown it away on two girls he's never going to see again.

and pjm and kroney - oi!! for the record, i don't think by any means that ALL guys would be unable to refuse this offer. i just think that HE was unable to refuse it. because he was a cock. who thought with his cock. all about his cock. and nothing but his cock.

except for possibly his balls.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 17:50, Reply)

I'm going to regret saying this, but here I go........
I'm having extreme trouble understanding the "you must tell the truth and follow your morals even if it makes things uncomfortable for a while" argument.

If you tell the truth, because it makes you feel better, then, one has to ask oneself "Why am I doing this? Because it's the right thing to do? or because it makes me feel better?"

We all harbour secrets in one form or another and we keep them because the truth would devastate lives for little or no reason. From telling a partner than their bum DOESN'T look big in that dress to "Yes, dear. You ARE the biggest I've ever had!".

Incidentally, the ethics of whether this is an open relationship or not, it highly relevant, because as Loony pointed out, we're all talking about something with far too many variables and and lots of salient pieces of information missing. In other words, we're all talking about a situation we know very little about.

Can we talk about zombie apocalypse now....? (see HSH thread)

*Edit* I agree, CHC. Now get yourself a decent car! ;O)
(The Stig, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 17:52, Reply)

I think
All the angles have been pretty much covered by others, so I just want to say *hugs*

Hmm. Also... While I agree wholeheartedly with you MM, that people have the right to know things that would alter their viewpoint (not to mention the fact that personally I for one would be loathe to see anyone investing their future, and their children's future, in someone who may wreck it further down the line), you said this was told to you on a heavy night... Is there any possibility that all this could have actually happened In Her Mind, rather than in reality? Just another thing to consider...

But all round, it's a shit situation, no easy answers, and I empathise with you for being put in that position.
( warmfuzzies Isn't here, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 17:52, Reply)

As I've said before
I wasn't planning on saying anything, other than a letter I wrote to my mate to explain my feelings on this. So Loon and Stig, I know it's not my place to do so.

I am pissed off with the guy. I also know that at some point in their 12 year relationship he cheated on her before, and she left him for a while to sort her head out, before coming back to give him a second chance. So actually, yes, I do know that this will destroy her and that they do not have an open relationship.

TRL;
I can definitely see the viewpoint of someone who says that the threesome was too good to pass up- it would be someone whose needs were not being met in a monogamous relationship. That said, he DOES owe it to her to let her know that his needs are not being met, and that he is seeking out what he needs elsewhere. She has to be fully aware of this. If she is and she's okay with it, then all is good. If he's doing this on the sly and she would not be comfortable with it, that's another matter entirely.

What the fuck? You'd seriously say to a partner that they were shit in bed and that you needed a good fucking elsewhere? To be quite frank anyone who would even breach that as a topic of conversation is beyond my comprehension. If your relationship is not working sexually, it's not working. You can't dress it up. You've become friends, and you need to get out. I can't honestly understand how someone could be shagging around and still kidding themselves that it was all in everyone's best interests, even if their partner did know. One thing I know about women is that they'll agree to anything if they're used to being shat on.

EDIT: CHCB, if I were to tell her, it would be because I'd hope someone would tell me. If I knew it had been going on, with my boyfriend still fucking me with his bismirched penis, I'd have to stab things. I'd much rather know the truth.
( Madam Marlboro wonders if you've found her yet, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 17:52, Reply)

@MM re: Loon, @ancrenne
Is that what makes a relationship a relationship?

With one ex, it took me ages to confess to my friends that he and I no longer had sex. Sex had stopped because of a few different reasons and probably some extra ones we didn't even know about. He still wanted to have sex. I still wanted to have sex. We just weren't able to have sex with each other and that was really upsetting, but we still loved each other hugely. My friends were horrified.

I've been in relationships where sex becomes secondary and then practically non-existent. In fact, most of my relationships were like that until current-bloke. For me, it's the knowledge that one person prefers me over everyone else, whether it's as a friend or a lover, and I prefer them, and that's what makes it more than a friendship.

(I also love teh cock, so sex is a big bonus.)

Edit: @MM - 'bismirched penis' is a beautiful turn of phrase!
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 18:10, Reply)

CHCB
What I really meant was that if the two of you aren't having sex, and you feel like you need to be fucking someone else, then it isn't working. But what you just said in your last sentence makes me think that wasn't really the case for you guys.

EDIT: thank you mightily. I thought I'd make an effort since you're here...
( Madam Marlboro wonders if you've found her yet, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 18:12, Reply)

I've only skimmed
the thread but I thought I'd chuck in my tuppence worth.

Don't all flame me but I have cheated in every relationship I've had except my current one. I know it's wrong but I did it because I wasn't really happy in the relationship or with myself. The concept that someone else could find me attractive preyed on my low self confidence and I just felt I couldn't pass it up.

Having seen this from the other side I can say that if this guy has cheated on her then this is not the right relationship for either of them. This relationship has to end, if it doesn't end now then it will end once they are married or worse once there are children involved.
( Mrs Entity is in hiding., Mon 29 Sep 2008, 18:13, Reply)

y'know
I think I read to much Heinlein in my formative years and now I'm disappointed that his imagined future has not lived up to my expectations.

Edit: but ancrenne, what if you were married to someone and they became impotent. Would that mean your marriage was over because they couldn't actually have sex?

What about the inverse? What about people who have sex without loving someone? Does that mean their 'relationship' is more valid than a couple who don't have sex but do love each other?

Edit again: our editing has crossed in the posts :)
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 18:15, Reply)

Stig
I kind of understand your difficulty about following the morals argument but there is a big distinction between white lies and not telling someone about something such as this. (I have a small amount of experience, read my Guilty Secrets post if you want)

I'd hope to hell that one of my good friends would tell me if it were happening to me.

With regard to what someone said about not keeping quiet to make you feel better, what is wrong with that? obviously other people's feelings have to weigh in too, but that decision was taken out of MM's hands to some extent by her being effectively boasted to about what has happened.

my judgement: the only feelings worth considering here are MM's and the girl who doesn't know anything about it. Everyone else forfeit theirs.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 18:27, Reply)

I have been with Mr Bin
for 10 years now and married for 6.
I have not once looked at another man.

In my relationship before I slept with about 4 other people. Simply because I was unhappy.

I had always just settled for whatever I could get in a relationship as I was so sure I was hideously unattractive and couldn't do better.

Mr Bin makes me feel beautiful and loved everyday. Granted, just because someone doesn't do this then it's not a reason to screw around, but I know I am happy in my relationship.
( Mrs Entity is in hiding., Mon 29 Sep 2008, 18:29, Reply)

Surely
What makes a relationship different to a friendship is love?

And surely, it's love for your partner that would (if you are a decent human being) prevent you from cheating on them?

The word "cheating" is used universally, no matter what your personal views and your own relationships, and the word means 1. To deceive by trickery; swindle 2. To deprive by trickery; defraud 3. To mislead; fool

There is no "nice" word for cheating.

EDIT: I realise that was a tad simplistic, and I am not judging anyone who has cheated... I understand there are many reasons why people do it, but as has been said already, if you're not happy with who you are with, be honest with yourself and with them, fuck around as much as you like when you are single and not hurting someone else in the process.

ANOTHER EDIT: I too have been on both sides... my dad had an affair with my mum's best friend which destroyed two families. And I have cheated in the past. I learned from it, and every day regret my actions, and will never do it again, regardless of whether the relationship I am in is good, bad or downright scary.
( warmfuzzies Isn't here, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 18:29, Reply)

@MM
Sorry for the delay in replying- I was at lunch.

Me? I wouldn't say any such thing, really. Nor would I get into that position in general. I was basically paraphrasing advice that I've seen in Savage Love a number of times. But usually it's advice to a married couple who don't want to divorce. The typical example is a couple where one has high libido and the other has low libido- eventually the high libido person is going to get their needs met elsewhere. The way Dan Savage put it was that you can have low libido or you can have monogamy, but not both. Obviously that's not quite the case here, as they're not married and tied to one another, but it's still an interesting discussion point.

Were I not married and thoroughly rooted with another, I wouldn't chase outside the relationship if my needs were not being met, I would end the relationship and search for whatever it was that I needed. But that's me.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Mon 29 Sep 2008, 18:38, Reply)

Mrs Bin
I'm not making any sweeping statements about what is right and wrong, and it sounds like you've sorted yourself out. What gets me about this situation is that she gave up her acting career so that he could follow his. She loves him, supports him, and as far as I knew up to this point, they were a perfect couple. He's cheated on her before I knew them once, and it destroyed her. I just can't belive that he's done it again. The boyfriend of my mate has known them both for years and they are all really close friends.
( Madam Marlboro wonders if you've found her yet, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 18:39, Reply)

Yeah (@ ancrenne)
I was pondering that after I wrote the last post... There is also a difference between love and "in love"... and that's where it all gets even more complicated, since many relationships have one without the other... I have a feeling this is one of those subjects that fails to be categorisable.

OK... am now going to put the conversation on the floor and step away...

But as I said MM, hugs and empathy. You're the one stuck in this situation, and I don't envy you.
( warmfuzzies Isn't here, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 18:40, Reply)

"What I really meant was that if the two of you aren't having sex, and you feel like you need to be fucking someone else, then it isn't working..."
Exactly that! If two people are comfortable with a casual relationship, the fine. However if one is under the impression that the relationship is permanent and has invested trust (and heaven knows what else) while the other puts it about in frankly humiliating fashion then I'd say it ain't right.
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Mon 29 Sep 2008, 18:50, Reply)

That it is.
And in some ways it's hitting a little too close to home for me, as it's bringing back memories of my marriage- I was the high libido one, while Nurse Ratched would have been happy only doing it once a year on our anniversary. So I think I should just shut up and not say anything further, as my own traumas are coloring my responses here...
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Mon 29 Sep 2008, 19:07, Reply)

Ah, why not, everyone else has...
MM, I don't envy your position.

As far as relationships are concerned in my opinion sex is the glue that holds them together - it's a form of communication and if you're not having sex then you're no longer communicating well.
I'm not sure that I can agree with the argument about sex lessening with the length of the relationship - I was with my ex for twelve years and we were having pretty much the same quantity of sex towards the end as we were at the beginning. Of course there are natural waxing and wanings but still to remain bonded as a couple you *have* to have sex - in my world anyway.
If one partner feels the need to go out and experience different things sexually then either they're not with the right person or they're simply not ready to settle down with one person. There is nothing wrong with feeling these things. There is however everything in the world wrong with lying to a partner.

However, would I say anything to either party about the knowledge of wrongdoing?

Probably not simply because I'm first and foremost a coward and secondly because I don't know what it's like to be in their relationship.

Case in point - a friend of a friend has just got married to an openly gay man. Her family refused to attend the wedding because he's gay and they can't see how the two of them could possibly have a 'proper' marriage.

I can't see how they could have what I would consider to be a marriage of the sort that I would experience. But I'm not them. She's fully aware of his background. He adores her and she him. It's none of my business what they get up to (or don't) in the bedroom.

That said there are no lies in this relationship and that's the real problem...lies.
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Mon 29 Sep 2008, 22:24, Reply)