Vectors ahoy!
My second attempt at a vector. I'm pretty pleased with this one.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:58,
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My second attempt at a vector. I'm pretty pleased with this one.
Very nice
I got bored of doing vectors, they take to long to do
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 20:02,
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I think I can guess exactly what that is
and I'm not clicking on it.
Not that it makes any fucking difference because I've got the song going through my head now. CURSE YOU INTERNET.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 20:07,
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Not that it makes any fucking difference because I've got the song going through my head now. CURSE YOU INTERNET.
IIRC
It's a Dali thing, shamelessly plagiarised by The Cult for lyrical purposes.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 20:09,
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i thought next doors cat got em
but they're flying about my garden aww! :D
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:57,
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Ace, they are lovely
In our garden we have got Great Tits, Blue Tits, Coal Tits and Long Tailed Tits. They all go around with each other, like some gang of thugs :)
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 20:00,
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i've got almost albino sparrow thing flying about
its white and brown - quite freaky, i've yet to get a decent pic of it!
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 20:03,
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Who did the comic
where aliens monitor the internet to determine what form humans would be most comfortable meeting and they come up with squirrels with tits?
That thing still cracks me up but I've not seen it in yonks and I can't remember who did it.
EDIT: I tried search, but gave up after 10 pages.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 20:01,
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That thing still cracks me up but I've not seen it in yonks and I can't remember who did it.
EDIT: I tried search, but gave up after 10 pages.
that is the my plan, to keep them nice and simple
sort of Japanese style of painting
thank you :)
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:41,
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thank you :)
I was going to post
one of the bird pics I made when I first used photoshop and I was starting to experiment with different brushes and sketch styles. But I just looked back at them and they're not very good :)
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:45,
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Doing mine with the airbrush in Painter X
don't like using any other brush. One layer, two main colours and then the subject in all its colours. I think it really works, just need to take some more wildlife photos
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:48,
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I don't use Painter much now.
I got into it for a while but I'm too comfortable in Photoshop to stray for long.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:50,
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Used to use PSP, but tried Painter and loved it
Never got on with Photoshop, to much hard work
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:54,
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Yeah
I think if I was coming to Photoshop as a newb right now I'd be very put off. It's gotten more and more complex with each version. It's a very steep learning curve.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 20:02,
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pfft nsfw link no worky
but i used google magic and found that is infact a great pear
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 20:02,
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It looks angry to me.
Like the white bits are it's eyebrows and eyes, and the black on it's tummy is it's angry mouth.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:45,
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Like most birds
they're very territorial and can be aggressive.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:52,
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My ex was like that :)
she probably even sent marked the place as well
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:55,
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Like all animals, most of the time they are all nice and cute but the other times they can be cunts
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:52,
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Nah
It's the Stig in a yellow Sparco racesuit and David Coulthard's helmet.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:47,
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She may not see the funny side,
but I stand by my 'sticking her face to a wall' prank.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:36,
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Tell me, then
where does a 'u' belong in that sentence up there? IT DOESN'T.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:17,
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I didn't say it did.
Just saying, you spell coloUr wrong.
I could go on, but i don't want a list of words that Americans spell wrong.
Learn to spell, loser :)
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:19,
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I could go on, but i don't want a list of words that Americans spell wrong.
Learn to spell, loser :)
Pffft.
The reason we don't add the U is because we're lazy. I mean, come on, we're Americans. As lazy as you can get, dude. x]
So how are you, anyway?
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:20,
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So how are you, anyway?
I'm home and sick.
:p
Well, not that sick. But I woke up with an awful sore throat so Mum let me stay home.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:22,
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Well, not that sick. But I woke up with an awful sore throat so Mum let me stay home.
It benefits
from distracting the viewer from the borderline incrimination that you posted below and still haven't removed.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:16,
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Put your toys back in the pram and then hide the thread or ignore me.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:17,
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good stuff
has he got really massive blisters on the bottom of him toes??
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:16,
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is this SFW?
Ah...I see that's not, in fact, a full body shot of GB. Can we have a CFB please.
p.s. clickage! and huzzah!
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 20:22,
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p.s. clickage! and huzzah!
Puff the Magic Dragon, lived by the sea.....
.cfb.
...but one day all the children stop believing in him and he died...
A doodle I did the other week at work...
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:08,
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.cfb.
...but one day all the children stop believing in him and he died...
A doodle I did the other week at work...
Hoorah!
I love this. This is my new favourite best thing ever. I will never tire of this.
Until there is another lego album cover. :)
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:51,
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Until there is another lego album cover. :)
I was doing a photoshop of Jesse Jane as a naked robot....
but then I realized some goober would go NSFW! NSFW! NSFW! Then post a picture of Hitler.
So instead you get a little animation of a shy dog.
It's an awesome picture of Jesse Jane, but no sadly, no picshure for joo!
Keep watching him, he will look at you.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:05,
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So instead you get a little animation of a shy dog.
It's an awesome picture of Jesse Jane, but no sadly, no picshure for joo!
Keep watching him, he will look at you.
Who the fuck is he?
He's brilliant but ive never heard of him!
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:14,
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Nah, neither had I before.
I reckon he is prolly one of those people who came up through Saturday Night LIve....
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:20,
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I wish I had the face of a duck and body of a foxes tail
That would be bitching and shit
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:08,
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Nope, just a standard Mechabird 4000.
How's the Secret Project coming along?
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:12,
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Slowly. It's difficult drawing 6 times smaller than the image you're adding to.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:13,
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very nice
needs more apocalyptic doom baboons with neutron rockets
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:18,
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For my 5000th, a naked picture of me with my cock out:
There's no actual penis, so i'll asume it's fine, but if anyone wants i'll link it. edit: If you're not a prick about it.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:56,
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There's no actual penis, so i'll asume it's fine, but if anyone wants i'll link it. edit: If you're not a prick about it.
I'm going to stop posting at 19,999.
Become a lurker. Settle down in the country. Masturbate and cry.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:10,
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How will we know when that is?
Your profile page is fucking insanity.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:14,
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Ooh, the American Dream eh?
^ and to you, add &css=n to the end of the website, it cancels the css styles.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:20,
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True
You can't compete with that. BUT you can compete with yourself. Keep going and going and noticing the flaws, then erase them. Over time and number of tries, you will be great.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:13,
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I think that he can compete with me.
I am hardly the king of the world.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:17,
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ah no no no
It's not about competing with you, me, human descent or anyone else. It's about pushing yourself forward I believe.
If other peoples works inspire you to be similar or better, then cool. But competing with others especially in photoshopping is kind of pointless. What can you win !?
Over time, I like to think that I have improved no end. I've not beaten anyone, I've made myself laugh and proud with some of my creations.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:22,
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If other peoples works inspire you to be similar or better, then cool. But competing with others especially in photoshopping is kind of pointless. What can you win !?
Over time, I like to think that I have improved no end. I've not beaten anyone, I've made myself laugh and proud with some of my creations.
I tend to find that the work I enjoy most is the weakest.
Something will catch my hummus and I enjoy making it and only realise after posting it that it is probably only me that can understand why it was done (Mangosteen, for example).
Generally my FPs have been 2 minute quick and dirtys
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:40,
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Generally my FPs have been 2 minute quick and dirtys
'tis a good first effort
Now take time to step back from it and check all of the places where you think it looks odd, from a background perspective.
Then next time, amend as necessary.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:03,
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Then next time, amend as necessary.
Haha 'grats
was going to photoshop that, but then decided I didn't really want it on my hard drive...
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:00,
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haha
self selfing cockfest badness
is this know as popping a glitter?
to create chlrid pron of oneself?
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:01,
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is this know as popping a glitter?
to create chlrid pron of oneself?
I never fail!
I AM ALL OF TEH WIN.
Now eat shit and ammend your message.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:08,
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Now eat shit and ammend your message.
Dude,
Even the inference of your picture is bad news for people at work.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:09,
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It's hardly childporn.
That's like saying showing your son's girlfriend naked baby pictures of him is forcing porn on her and she could do you for harrassment or whatever it would be.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:16,
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This isn't your son's girlfriend.
This is the entire B3ta-browsing community of the world. And it's nothing to do with harrassment, it's about not wanting people like you who appreciate this site to get shit from their employers for looking at any naked children, visible genitalia or no.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:22,
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chop chop chop chop temporary vat reduction (HAHAHA like we'll see that fucker affect prices to our benefit) CHOP CHOP
what's happening?
I am fucked off
I may have to abuse someone today
I am feeling abusive
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:47,
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I am fucked off
I may have to abuse someone today
I am feeling abusive
Hello!
Are you ready for a naked picture of me?
I've even got my cock out and all!
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:53,
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I've even got my cock out and all!
on a cold day?
with a brisk breeze nestling betwixt schlong and danglers?
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:01,
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but if I upset him he'll suicide me
that's what they do to people who upset them
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:00,
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yeah, with a fucking tit slicer
he'll know fucking pain then, the shitpuncher
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:52,
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You haven't heard?
There's some bloke with a seamsknight near him or something.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:47,
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mr george has...
been apprantly chaining people up, or so bbc news says!
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:52,
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why do you mainlanders insist on wearing those ridiculous three quarter length trousers?
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:02,
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How may I direct your call?
Click for sexysize (43KB)
.
My essay is nearly done! Hooray!
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:22,
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Click for sexysize (43KB)
.
My essay is nearly done! Hooray!
FUCK OFF!
/is only saying this because of your advice earlier....
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:22,
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The essay?
“Economic sanctions are an ineffective tool of diplomacy, and do more harm than good.” Discuss.
Doesn't that just fill you with enthusiasm and excitement?
No. No, it does not.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:25,
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Doesn't that just fill you with enthusiasm and excitement?
No. No, it does not.
I have family in Zimbabwe
So I can see the point, just don't ask me to have anything meaningful or intelligent to say about it. Good luck :)
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:27,
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i seen sanchez on the IT crowd
my fucking god,how did the writers go from fr ted to that peice of shit,oh yeah,they did big train too hahhahahaa
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:35,
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since I'm on a roll
I want to roast this, to see if any of the evening shift get it.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:08,
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haha
yey!
i shaved clean yesterday, for the first time in 3 years...my face is very cold.
Noon all! how do?
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:08,
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i shaved clean yesterday, for the first time in 3 years...my face is very cold.
Noon all! how do?
I'm growing a beard!
How do I get it to grow down the sides of my mouth?
Testosterone?
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:10,
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Testosterone?
Testosterone is the key
You will get used to the itchiness of it
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:13,
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I really hope it gets proper like.
My goal.
That's not gay to say is it? Rugby's well manly and stuff. No, it's not gay. Shut-up!
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:14,
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That's not gay to say is it? Rugby's well manly and stuff. No, it's not gay. Shut-up!
I know a man who p,lays rugby, and looks just like him.
Strangely enough, he is also called Sebastian! In fact, come to think of it, I might know Sebastian Chabal....
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:16,
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pfffft
good luck, you will be shaving it off when it starts to tickle
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:17,
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That guy
would be more at home swinging an Axe on a battle field...puts in some awesome big hits...
uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dnyipJmfsX8&feature=related
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:45,
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uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dnyipJmfsX8&feature=related
My cousin told me
"If you grow a goatee again, I'm writing you out of my will."
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:28,
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I did it for the first time in a week
and I'm marveling (as I do every week because I'm a lazy) at the smoothness of it.
*Edit* I'm warm as I turned the heating on for the first time this 'winter'
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:10,
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*Edit* I'm warm as I turned the heating on for the first time this 'winter'
I am cold also.
But not on my face as I have now decided to grow a beard!
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:10,
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Want to be beard buddies?
We can spur each other on and give each other motivational pats on the back.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:13,
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No, I shall only be beard buddies with
real men who grow facial hair all over the bottom of their face!
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:14,
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Will yours have flame red bits in it?
No? Well you are wrong then sir ;)
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:14,
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Neither am I .
I just grow bright red hairs in my beard for some reason. But proper red I mean, not ginger.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:17,
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the only body that would be dumped in the river would be my brothers
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:14,
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Hehe.
Googling Hitlery is interesting:
images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=hitlery&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:09,
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images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=hitlery&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2
I googled 'Sanjeev' today
is it racist to be really amused by the result?
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:10,
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Probably.
Is it wrong that a man called Sanjeev looks just like Dixon?
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:15,
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Koit: "he was running real fast. And then he stopped quickly, but the back of him didn't and it's now inside him "
Vet: "wtf"
Dixon: "lol tru story"
Koit: "I second this and I wasn't even alive."
Captain Lambkin: "I was there I saw it happen, really."
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:57,
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Dixon: "lol tru story"
Koit: "I second this and I wasn't even alive."
Captain Lambkin: "I was there I saw it happen, really."
I was there I saw it happen, really.
Also you can cut glass under water with scissors it's true.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:00,
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Why thank you, I have caught the Sun.
I CAUGHT THE FUCKING SUN.
He must fall over when he has a shit
You can tell on here when people have left work, it dies
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:01,
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HaHaHaHaHa
*Click*
I dunno HOW you do this shit bud, but yer one of the best animal choppers on here.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:06,
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I dunno HOW you do this shit bud, but yer one of the best animal choppers on here.
Photoshop
Although I do like to use gimps in personal matters.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:13,
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I often wonder how to do it without affecting the background..
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:15,
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To do this sort of image
simply take the back end(including all background pieces) and bring them over towards the front. Then through careful use of the delete tool, you can merge.
Blending animal heads and bodies etc are a different kettle of fish. But they work in similar ways to that above.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:17,
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Blending animal heads and bodies etc are a different kettle of fish. But they work in similar ways to that above.
I wish I could see this!
I'm on a laptop on a bus in the middle of nowhere and pics aren't loading!
:(
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:13,
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:(
Haha they're all used to that!!
Still can't see this though. :(
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:25,
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maybe I should buy that and change man to woman and send it to my ex
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:56,
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Okay, I just wasn't so sure, what with you being so non commital about it (-_0)
 
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:49,
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I can supply you with the two original PSD's it came from...
This one at the moment is onl;y 800-800 72dpi
the Original PSD with the fish has a larger fish on it... but only 600 - 600
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:54,
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the Original PSD with the fish has a larger fish on it... but only 600 - 600
I did think about it...
But I chose...poorly. I thought it'd be disrespectful to threadjack someone else's. Won't happen again :(
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:30,
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*bokes*
So this is why you wanted the candy teeth :D
Did you see the rest of my lego entries miss?
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:30,
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Did you see the rest of my lego entries miss?
Want some curls?
I'll curl it next weekend for my birthday anyway, I can take some photos for you.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:40,
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*does so*
*looks like a nana doing this with no music in the office*
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:46,
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Are you challenging me to a vogue off?
Is that what you're doing?
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:48,
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I threw my beauty out years ago
it had gone a bit funny and was covered in verdigris
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:53,
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*dredges memory for RtH quotes*
I was the one accompanied by the over-80s nude leapfrogging team.
On our way to the Swan-Upping at Downham, followed by the Swan-Downing at Upham.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 18:06,
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On our way to the Swan-Upping at Downham, followed by the Swan-Downing at Upham.
great this
if he'd been a carpenter it wood have turned out so different
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:07,
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I saw this this morning....brilliant
a real spits coffee at monitor moment
click
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:38,
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click
I agree - F5 is king.
Why would you constantly refresh the root page though? You'd be vigorously stabbing F5 for days til some new content came up...
/Pedant blog
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:26,
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/Pedant blog
Aaargh!
But *glee*... I can see my pic :D
*is ridiculously chuffed and grateful*
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:26,
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*is ridiculously chuffed and grateful*
I made a similar pic (not sure i'll be brave enough to use it on a B3tard)
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:43,
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They could hunt me down and kill me
but before killing me they could brutally sodomize me whilst forcing me to watch "Will & Grace".
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:46,
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Minimum Safe Distance is recommended.
Only kidding Prodge!
Edit: Oh dear, as I suspected, he already put me on 'ignore'
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:35,
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Edit: Oh dear, as I suspected, he already put me on 'ignore'
Well, I know at lot of things I do annoy the hell out of him.
It's really not intentional, though.
Edit: Actually, I may be wrong about the ignore, well at least earlier...
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:38,
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Edit: Actually, I may be wrong about the ignore, well at least earlier...
*snuggles up* it's YOU!
You lovely thing, you. Look at you there, all you-ish. Marvellous. Give us a twirl.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:40,
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Right, you two hooligans -
I'm outta here - G'night!
*hugs & waves*
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:45,
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*hugs & waves*
Micha said they pass the botty test with flying colours
His actual (translated) words were "they make your arse look volumnous"
Which I guess means "yes your bum does look big in this"
But he likes it :P
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:45,
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Which I guess means "yes your bum does look big in this"
But he likes it :P
Men with proper arses. This is a good thing.
My ex didn't have one. He had 'extremely upper thighs' that merged seamlessly into the base of his back.
*pats bottom*
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:48,
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*pats bottom*
yay for proper bums :D
yeh, I knew a bloke who had a phantom arse like that. He thought he had a fantastic arse, when in fact, he had none whatsoever.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:49,
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....his name wasn't Nick, was it?
actually, gotta go. BIG love to the Dixypoos, for he is lovely bunchkin- also loves to the absent JPG and to the very present Ttssattsr (oh damn, that looks wrong)
Tra! xxx
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:52,
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Tra! xxx
It wasn't, no.
T'was Jon.
Just to go onto further important details, when naked, one could see his starfish without him even bending over. No arse cheeks, you see.
Wasn't pleasant.
edit: Tra! x
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:55,
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Just to go onto further important details, when naked, one could see his starfish without him even bending over. No arse cheeks, you see.
Wasn't pleasant.
edit: Tra! x
was in Stirling today for an interview and it was smashin' out
getting a bit nippy/freezy now
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:42,
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Aye, I'm not fancying my chances getting to the car in these heels.
(is stupidly wearing 4 inch stilettos today)
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:44,
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Nice, but reposting is naughty naughty.
It is nice though. If you'd posted this in an existing thread with a link to the first thread for it, I'd have made the effort to go back and click on it.
It IS good though, I'd like to see more please.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:29,
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It IS good though, I'd like to see more please.
Thanks for the kind reply
Will follow your advice in future :)
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:35,
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*doffs tricorn* more'n welcome, squire
I've done it myself once or twice.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:37,
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that......
is a tricky augmented ninth with a flattened fifth chord
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 19:09,
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if only it was funny
Why is Richard Hammond turning into a perverted alcoholic uncle?
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:17,
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Made me think of this again :D
uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0ttW3CLrcHo
Also nice to know I'm not the only person who watched Paul O'Grady ;)
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:20,
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Also nice to know I'm not the only person who watched Paul O'Grady ;)
The last time I watched it Henry Winkler was getting curiously maternal
over a man in an astonishingly good dinosaur costume.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:21,
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That utterly freaked the shit out of me!
How realistic was that?
Well, apart from the mens legs poking out the bottom....
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:24,
archived)
Well, apart from the mens legs poking out the bottom....
Yeah, but you can't wear a video from youtube
down the high street can ye!
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:30,
archived)
Aye,
I started watching his live DVD today. He makes a very funny, but ludicrously sick joke about Lewis Hamilton and his brother :D
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:25,
archived)
You know Lewis is gay and that he is only going out with her so his brother can shag her
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:27,
archived)
Hahahaha, yes, I know the one you're talking about
*just remembered it myself*
The Shannon Matthews stuff made me cringe a bit
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:34,
archived)
The Shannon Matthews stuff made me cringe a bit
It's the terrible floppy sideways haircuts everyone has now.
For goodness sake. They don't look good on the 18 year old boys in the Abercrombie and Fitch catalogues you're presumably getting them from, they won't look good on you.
not YOU. Although I think it might be a mistake to go down that route, Archster.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:24,
archived)
not YOU. Although I think it might be a mistake to go down that route, Archster.
I tend to keep it short for a good reason
trendy and me tend not to go together, as anyone who has seen me will confirm
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:30,
archived)
I've seen you, you weren't UNtrendy
but considering trendiness tends to be a bit shit, I'd say stick to the Archie style.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:35,
archived)
He was going that way before the crash, now he has had the crash it seems to have speeded up the process
You just know at some point he is going to get done for either child porn or being pissed behind the wheel or both
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:26,
archived)
The one where I tell my kid to say 'FUCK OBAMA'?
I was coming off the smack-pipes.
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Mon 24 Nov 2008, 17:20,
archived)
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