
there followed a series of hilarious slapstick misunderstandings which resulted in him being in charge of a large Ocean liner with no qualifications.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 14:40,
archived)


on an otherwise dull day.
Kudos, sir, kudos.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 15:12,
archived)
Kudos, sir, kudos.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
Edit: You terrifyingly, scarily appalling man, you!
Also: :D
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 14:25,
archived)
Edit: You terrifyingly, scarily appalling man, you!
Also: :D

I hope you are pleased with yourself!
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 14:27,
archived)

Half the fun is the risk of knocking them down her throat
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 14:49,
archived)

but if you're offering...
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 14:39,
archived)

I was trying to figure out the relevance of the shading-pieces on the door for a while there...
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 14:22,
archived)

I have to use a web photomanipulator to save as gifs and whilst it doesn't shag them up like paint it's still not very good


( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 14:25,
archived)



Ace! I wish our cucumber would make a fecking dash for it! I'd open the door and help it out!


( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 14:26,
archived)



So, that's all good, then.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 14:03,
archived)


Guest just checked into my hotel, name of Cynthia Barry.
The booking system gives last name/first part of first name
so she's BARRY/CYNT. I need to get out more.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 14:07,
archived)
The booking system gives last name/first part of first name
so she's BARRY/CYNT. I need to get out more.

Don't ask me - I don't know.
Where be you be then squire?
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 14:17,
archived)
Where be you be then squire?

Behind You!
Well, Bloomsbury ashually, but I frequent the Waitrose down in your neck o' the woods.
It's great for a having a cheeky glass of plonk whilst food shopping.
;-)
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 14:20,
archived)
Well, Bloomsbury ashually, but I frequent the Waitrose down in your neck o' the woods.
It's great for a having a cheeky glass of plonk whilst food shopping.
;-)

Oh Blooooomsbury, is it? How ver ver nice.
Mmmm Waitrose. I'll be getting our goose from there for Christmas.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 14:24,
archived)
Mmmm Waitrose. I'll be getting our goose from there for Christmas.

Roast Dinner of Champions, that is.
And the fat makes the most superb roastie spuds.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 14:30,
archived)
And the fat makes the most superb roastie spuds.

www.b3ta.com/board/6027577#post6027579
and then, well, the rest is nonsense
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 14:21,
archived)
and then, well, the rest is nonsense

At my old school the username protocol was the first 3 letter of the persons surname followed by the first letter of their first name. This was the case for pupils and teachers alike.
One of my teachers was called B Knowd.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 14:11,
archived)
One of my teachers was called B Knowd.

You're just copying me now!
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 14:11,
archived)


...maybe not as an adult, but I'm sure the thought has crossed his mind at some point in his development.

( , Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:47, archived)

sounds like something Robin would say to Batman!
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:50,
archived)

when they were fighting The Mighty Quim, an eskimo vagina based villian.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:54,
archived)


but only in the hope that you mean The Blood Donor and not another superhero film....
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:57,
archived)

If you hadn't said that, I would have felt a little prick!
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 14:00,
archived)


group mindset of b3ta?
;-)
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 14:16,
archived)
;-)

please never ever compliment me!!!
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:56,
archived)

although I shall not recant my Catholicism!
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:45,
archived)


join the Greek riot police, action guaranteed!
![Challenge Entry: Anagram Photoshops [challenge entry]](/images/board_posticon_c.gif)

EDIT: Also, there was talk down the board of an article written by Mr Postgate in 2003, published in The Guardian today again.
Here it is: www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/dec/10/postgate-bagpuss-animation-television

I wasn't sure whether people would take it the wrong way.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:37,
archived)

I have been known to take it the wrong way - do I get a prize?
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:39,
archived)


Edit: That Grauniad bit made me just love him a litttle bit more. I thank him for my childhood.

Topical tribute + anagram challenge all in one!
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:51,
archived)

post = tops, tops = post, anagrams....aghh forget it!
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 14:14,
archived)

We wouldn't want to go breaking any laws now, would we?
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:39,
archived)

YOU RAPED THEM.
(not you)
Right, I've got to go and do work. Consider yourselves loved and left.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:34,
archived)
(not you)
Right, I've got to go and do work. Consider yourselves loved and left.

I've read "error" too many times. It just doesn't look right now.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:30,
archived)

Yesterday someone posted a link to the results of a project to draw the Mona Lisa with 50 polygons using genetic programming.
I was just curious to see how it looked as a GIF animation so here it is...

( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:25,
archived)
I was just curious to see how it looked as a GIF animation so here it is...


it's massoff woo
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:26,
archived)

then the limit of 50 polygons is fairly meaningless.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 14:20,
archived)

EDIT: Oh, now I see

That's worth £1m in today's money - £2m in tomorrow's.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:21,
archived)

the board is acting odd today, I shall bog off and go to lunch
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:24,
archived)


These facial expressions were:
"Oh don't go", "What are you going to do with that" and "Whoa Nelly!"


*deposits 5 second paint job*

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7774287.stm
*relurks/runs*
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:16,
archived)
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7774287.stm
*relurks/runs*
![Challenge Entry: Anagram Photoshops [challenge entry]](/images/board_posticon_c.gif)
Might as well chuck this shit here, then, for the fuck of it...

( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:18,
archived)


I just licked the screen when I saw that
*pops off for a mars bar*
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:27,
archived)
*pops off for a mars bar*

I'm saving all my pretty and well crafted images for thesis*.
*Thesis may not contain any pretty or well crafted images.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:31,
archived)
*Thesis may not contain any pretty or well crafted images.

( , Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:07, archived)

snowy
grassy
Oh sod it "Why is it always raining in your images?"

ARG --- NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooo the light - it burns IT BUUUUUUUUUUUUURRNS
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:09,
archived)

woo.
EDIT: In other news. Yays. I just had scrummy baked potato and cheese!
\o/
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:09,
archived)
EDIT: In other news. Yays. I just had scrummy baked potato and cheese!
\o/


you have to let it ferment for a bit first
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:28,
archived)

What the hell...
...What are you having for lunch today b3ta.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:15,
archived)
...What are you having for lunch today b3ta.

I just had reheated chinese :)
I think his name was Shao Jian
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:17,
archived)
I think his name was Shao Jian

I was thinking the same before I got to the last line:P
EDIT: How is mini trelly doing?
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:19,
archived)
EDIT: How is mini trelly doing?

Was supposed to be taking her to a tumble tots type thing today which I've had to cancel. Although I think I'm more disappointed about it ;)
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:28,
archived)


All manner of joy and happy to be found here. Splendid :)
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:21,
archived)

As a wandering co-worker also commented
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:05,
archived)

BLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! ?
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:31,
archived)

Burtons are selling Baron Greenback t-shirts now.
But they have that really irritating 'washed-out' look to make people think it's really old
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:09,
archived)
But they have that really irritating 'washed-out' look to make people think it's really old

selling cheap suits, tight jeans and hilarious slogan t-shirts
AND carigans!
I must have missed the meeting where hip and trendy twentysomethings decided that cardigans were fashionable again
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:12,
archived)
AND carigans!
I must have missed the meeting where hip and trendy twentysomethings decided that cardigans were fashionable again

and I loved it. However, it wasn't one of those stupidly low neckline things the kids are wearing round my way!
I just went to their website, they are proper cheap now!
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:15,
archived)
I just went to their website, they are proper cheap now!

Lovely. have a *click*
And I'm going to whore this one out again:

( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:02,
archived)
And I'm going to whore this one out again:


I love this but only because our fucking mice are back after two years trouble free living
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:09,
archived)

www.b3ta.com/board/9011272
had you, perchance, read the Grunidad today? They have a very wonderful article written by Oliver on pages 1 & 2.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:08,
archived)
had you, perchance, read the Grunidad today? They have a very wonderful article written by Oliver on pages 1 & 2.

Thank you. I had a very sad day yesterday after hearing the news.
Someone put it rather well by saying "I feel that the last piece of my childhood died when I heard of his death".
Edit: Vulthoom, it was. I badly paraphrased him, too - and for that, apologies.
Quite so.
:'(
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:10,
archived)
Someone put it rather well by saying "I feel that the last piece of my childhood died when I heard of his death".
Edit: Vulthoom, it was. I badly paraphrased him, too - and for that, apologies.
Quite so.
:'(

I didn't know until I sat down for lunch and a coffee with the paper and I am all at once rather seriously down... this few paragraphs he wrote in 2003 were exceedingly good perfectly crystallised what's wrong with children's television today and what it should be about but isn't
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:14,
archived)

"... were I a Martian invader and I wanted to overthrow the human race I would start with the young people by taking imagination and story telling out of the things they like -- "
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:17,
archived)

I'm pretty sad about the whole thing... especially as he was so soundly neglected once children's TV decided moronic shite was the way to go.
:(
woosome
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:04,
archived)
:(
woosome

When bloody Floella (sp?) Benjamin was banging on about how wonderful she was in Play School, completely missing the point about what genius Firmin & Postgate had. Silly witch.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:08,
archived)

I can't see in 20 years time people going out and buying the complete series of Barney or High School Musical on DVD
/doesn't know what shit kids TV is on these days
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:11,
archived)
/doesn't know what shit kids TV is on these days

rolling cigarettes.
Big Cook Little Cook, Sorry I Have no Head- both bloody excellent.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:15,
archived)
Big Cook Little Cook, Sorry I Have no Head- both bloody excellent.

that was suprisingly good, and a hundred times better than anything on BBC3
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:29,
archived)


Alt text to finish the story.

I wish to offer my condolences with regard the sad passing of Oliver Postgate
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:57,
archived)

hopefully. Keanu was talking about it.
Fuck me, I'd dry hump everything in the world in gleeful anticipation.
Smoking time for real now.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:00,
archived)
Fuck me, I'd dry hump everything in the world in gleeful anticipation.
Smoking time for real now.

if you're making this up I'll hunt you down and exact my warm revenge
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:01,
archived)

Did you know, as I never did, that Alex Winter was born in London? That there is a fact!
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:07,
archived)

cunning.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:06,
archived)

Kanoo has made some great films and seems like a really nice bang up sort.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:06,
archived)

and she's met him a few times. According to her he's really quite intelligent, just a complete stoner, and very patient.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:08,
archived)

Posting pictures of a regular boarder in the nuddy is not really okay.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:15,
archived)

this is why I dont post naked pictures of myself on the tintersplut. Anymore.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:17,
archived)

but it's a bit rude still.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:22,
archived)

top up the toilet
edit: now poor TUTT is suffering from pixellated torso disease
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:16,
archived)
edit: now poor TUTT is suffering from pixellated torso disease

i find best remidied by pressing 'hide'
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:23,
archived)

Also, she best fucking be aware you've posted this.
Oh, Wormulus is online. Good good.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:16,
archived)
Oh, Wormulus is online. Good good.

Edit: Also - damn straight on your edit, ma'am. That would be a tad rude.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:16,
archived)

Ms Tea, you really shouldn't let paparazzi into the toilet with you.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:18,
archived)

you're a master of disguise when out and about with us ordinary folk.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:31,
archived)

keeps the autograph hunters at bay
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:36,
archived)

Captain's Ego Massage is open for business, all.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:37,
archived)

£1200, please.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:40,
archived)

what this site might look like.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:00,
archived)

I've never knowingly met a B3TARD in the flesh
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:34,
archived)

*scarpers*


( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:34,
archived)



Assuming she wasn't on the toilet to start with.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:27,
archived)


...AdBlock saves me for raging spackers like you.
Yes it was pixelated; bit fucking deal. If my boss had seen that from across the room, would it have looked pixelated? No. Of course not you shitting cunt.
The redundancies being announced tomorrow are bad enough, I don't need to add summary dismissal to my worries as well.
Now link that as NSFW or fuck off.
/edit
Re-your edit: No, that is not any better you flipping arse. Link it. MOD! Ban this sick filth, please!
*re-fluffs*
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:30,
archived)
Yes it was pixelated; bit fucking deal. If my boss had seen that from across the room, would it have looked pixelated? No. Of course not you shitting cunt.
The redundancies being announced tomorrow are bad enough, I don't need to add summary dismissal to my worries as well.
Now link that as NSFW or fuck off.
/edit
Re-your edit: No, that is not any better you flipping arse. Link it. MOD! Ban this sick filth, please!
*re-fluffs*

posting a picture of a regular is not big or clever

:P
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:34,
archived)

Does that mean we cant post them any more?
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:39,
archived)

...pictures of Rob violating kittens (or whatever) were OK though. or have I misunderstood "Teh Roolz"?
Again.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:34,
archived)
Again.

Rob isn't real. He's an amalgam of spare layers in photoshop
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:36,
archived)

asking for permission = good
not asking = bad
science!

Thanks Government!
Way to put newsagents out of business
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 11:55,
archived)
Way to put newsagents out of business

There is fuck all profit on snout at any rate.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 11:57,
archived)

you go in for fags and buy a paper, magazine, drink etc
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:01,
archived)

'ningles all.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:23,
archived)

the pubs, and highstreet butcher baker hardware shop, I see it as the next logical step, I mean why would I want a shop on my high street?
Arrrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 11:59,
archived)
Arrrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I actually approve - the massive cartons serve as excellent advertising and this makes the law fair and sensible.
Of course, that said, I want a world where they don't vilify smoking in the first place and having a fag is not evil, just fun.
Why am I living in the future already? no drinking on the tube, no cigarettes, what the fuck was the point in all the years of fighting oppressive regimes if we just have one from here and take over?
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 11:57,
archived)
Of course, that said, I want a world where they don't vilify smoking in the first place and having a fag is not evil, just fun.
Why am I living in the future already? no drinking on the tube, no cigarettes, what the fuck was the point in all the years of fighting oppressive regimes if we just have one from here and take over?

I think your definition of "opressive" might be a bit wide...
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:02,
archived)

Unruly behaviour by drunk people should not reflect upon all people who drink, any more than a Chinaman robbing the Post Office means all Chinamen should be arrested.
Preventing individuals from doing things which do not have a negative affect on others is oppression.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:05,
archived)
Preventing individuals from doing things which do not have a negative affect on others is oppression.

'I drink therefore I am!'
OI!
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:17,
archived)
OI!

/set em up knock em down

But you're assuming that Mill is correct.
And, at least here, I don't think he is.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:11,
archived)
And, at least here, I don't think he is.

i think that the oppression of viewpoints,actions and ideals is always negative,as it robs the future of serious debate and impinges on the rights of the individual.
i see the freedom of the individual and responsibility going hand-in-hand,so that the individual can choose what he does rather than be todl what he can and cannot do.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:14,
archived)
i see the freedom of the individual and responsibility going hand-in-hand,so that the individual can choose what he does rather than be todl what he can and cannot do.

I'm more of an anti-liberal.
You're right to say that opression is wrong - but that's trivial, because the important question has to do with deciding what is oppressive to begin with.
You're also assuming that there's such a thing as a right - something that Mill never claims, incidentally. I'm suspicious of the notion of rights, for metaphysical, epistemological and historical reasons. I can make much more sense of the notion of duties or responsibilities - but, even then, it's wholly formal, and we'd still need to know what they are.
But then again, I'm an irremediable Kant.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:20,
archived)
You're right to say that opression is wrong - but that's trivial, because the important question has to do with deciding what is oppressive to begin with.
You're also assuming that there's such a thing as a right - something that Mill never claims, incidentally. I'm suspicious of the notion of rights, for metaphysical, epistemological and historical reasons. I can make much more sense of the notion of duties or responsibilities - but, even then, it's wholly formal, and we'd still need to know what they are.
But then again, I'm an irremediable Kant.

we do have a duty to our state (if you advocate paternalism)
but i believe the individual should act as he likes as long as he DOES NO ACTIVE HARM to another.all actions have consequences,and i feel smokers should take pains to only fuck themselves up,not anyone else (like kids).
but I ABSOLUTELY ADVOCATE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:25,
archived)
but i believe the individual should act as he likes as long as he DOES NO ACTIVE HARM to another.all actions have consequences,and i feel smokers should take pains to only fuck themselves up,not anyone else (like kids).
but I ABSOLUTELY ADVOCATE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE

Paternalism does not mean that we have duties to anyone.
Your claim about liberty has a problem of normativity, though. For example, I used to climb the fireguard as a child. This was what I wanted to do, and I was harming noone else. Nor would I have harmed anyone by continuing to do so. However, I don't think my parents wronged me by removing me therefrom.
So it would appear that some violations of strict liberty might not be problematic. The problem you then have is one of determining where the line is to be drawn between the problematic and the non-problematic. I'm not sure that it can be done.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:30,
archived)
Your claim about liberty has a problem of normativity, though. For example, I used to climb the fireguard as a child. This was what I wanted to do, and I was harming noone else. Nor would I have harmed anyone by continuing to do so. However, I don't think my parents wronged me by removing me therefrom.
So it would appear that some violations of strict liberty might not be problematic. The problem you then have is one of determining where the line is to be drawn between the problematic and the non-problematic. I'm not sure that it can be done.

he stated that the harm principal did not apply to children and people of less-developed nations.his phraseology,not mine.
and,as i said,i advocate choice,intelligent choice as the only way forward.the individual must take responsibility for his own actions.it is deferred responsibility that is ruining the western world.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:34,
archived)
and,as i said,i advocate choice,intelligent choice as the only way forward.the individual must take responsibility for his own actions.it is deferred responsibility that is ruining the western world.

But he doesn't provide a satisfactory answer that I can see. And he didn't talk about less-developed nations. He talked about barbarians and nations in their "nonage" (On Liberty, ch. 1).
I don't understand the leap you've made to the Spenglerian point about the decline of the west. It seems to have nothing to do with anything that anyone's said here hitherto.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:42,
archived)
I don't understand the leap you've made to the Spenglerian point about the decline of the west. It seems to have nothing to do with anything that anyone's said here hitherto.

You need some account of their entitlement to do that action as well, and of the intention of the person putting the difficulties in place. If there's no right to smoke, then it being more difficult to do so, or to sell cigarettes, is not really oppressive. And there is no such right.
Moreover, the intention behind a lot of the hurdles to smoking is beneficence-based. That, too, undermines claims to oppression, doesn't it?
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:11,
archived)
Moreover, the intention behind a lot of the hurdles to smoking is beneficence-based. That, too, undermines claims to oppression, doesn't it?

Positive rights suck ass.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:14,
archived)

Read the shapes I made with my keyboard and words.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:16,
archived)

but I'll give it a go.
Edit: since you say below you don't like the concept of a right, perhaps what you're saying here is that there are no rights to anything, and therefore there is never any oppression. This leaves me in the dark about what you think there is.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:21,
archived)
Edit: since you say below you don't like the concept of a right, perhaps what you're saying here is that there are no rights to anything, and therefore there is never any oppression. This leaves me in the dark about what you think there is.

... or of actions, laws, restrictions and so on that are kata ton orthon logon: in accordance with reason.
There's more to moral debate than appeals to rights. I don't think that such appeals to rights help; I suspect they get in the way of clarity.
The absence of rights doesn't mean that liberty is meaningless; nor does it mean that there's no such thing as oppression. Why should it?
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:54,
archived)
There's more to moral debate than appeals to rights. I don't think that such appeals to rights help; I suspect they get in the way of clarity.
The absence of rights doesn't mean that liberty is meaningless; nor does it mean that there's no such thing as oppression. Why should it?

You mentioned the intent (it's for the smokers' own good), but is it at least unfair? Do you have no principle against coercing people for their own good? How would fines for hang-gliding shape up? Very bad for you, hang-gliding, lots of broken limbs, no merit other than enjoyment.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:02,
archived)

I think that there is a right to behave in accordance to personal wishes where that does not negatively impact others.
Tobacco is a readily available plant - if an individual wishes to burn it and inhale it I can imagine no possible defence for preventing this.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:15,
archived)
Tobacco is a readily available plant - if an individual wishes to burn it and inhale it I can imagine no possible defence for preventing this.

If someone lights up in front of me when i'm walking down the road I have to make sure i'm not down wind as i think cigarette smoke stinks like fuck. When spending evenings in pubs/gig venues/peoples houses where there are smokers I invariably end up leaving with a sore throat and smelling like an ashtray.
You would complain if I farted in your face so I respectfully ask you to keep your noxious fumes out of mine.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:26,
archived)
You would complain if I farted in your face so I respectfully ask you to keep your noxious fumes out of mine.

This is because I understand that everyone is different and that other enjoy things which I do not.
I do not smoke, but I resent the fact that being a minority makes it a target.
A slight odour does not count as significant discomfort for others.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:30,
archived)
I do not smoke, but I resent the fact that being a minority makes it a target.
A slight odour does not count as significant discomfort for others.

need not be a consideration.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:36,
archived)

Mill thinks that it isn't. I'm not so sure - and by this I do mean that I don't know. I've been toying with the idea of writing something on offensiveness for a while now.
Whether or not it is, though, you're presupposing that it's the outcome of an action that makes the difference. It might be that you can be wronged without being harmed at all, or that any harm is wrong to the same extent, and that the degree thereof is a mere detail.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:47,
archived)
Whether or not it is, though, you're presupposing that it's the outcome of an action that makes the difference. It might be that you can be wronged without being harmed at all, or that any harm is wrong to the same extent, and that the degree thereof is a mere detail.

but I have personally addressed the questions and believe that the level of offence and harm IS important.
Aside from this, I believe that intent, rather than effect, is the governing factor in behaviour, but that does not apply to this argument.
Lunch, however, does.
Cheerio!
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:51,
archived)
Aside from this, I believe that intent, rather than effect, is the governing factor in behaviour, but that does not apply to this argument.
Lunch, however, does.
Cheerio!

but being in a smoky environment does diminish my enjoyment of an evening.
It's not targeted because it's a minority, jugglers are a minority but they're not targeted. It's targeted because it's not good for you or the people around you. Or do you doubt that second hand smoke is dangerous?
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:40,
archived)
It's not targeted because it's a minority, jugglers are a minority but they're not targeted. It's targeted because it's not good for you or the people around you. Or do you doubt that second hand smoke is dangerous?

is measurably detrimental to your health.
Yes.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:43,
archived)
Yes.

A fine politician you'll make.
I agree mind you on the point that it isn't harmful in open air. Yet to your original point I still feel a negative impact is still there.
You've gone from negative impact to significant discomfort to harm. These are not synonyms. Smoking in the open air indeed may not harm me but I do say it has a negative impact. Smoking inside does harm and cause significant discomfort. Which effect would you like to argue?
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:03,
archived)
I agree mind you on the point that it isn't harmful in open air. Yet to your original point I still feel a negative impact is still there.
You've gone from negative impact to significant discomfort to harm. These are not synonyms. Smoking in the open air indeed may not harm me but I do say it has a negative impact. Smoking inside does harm and cause significant discomfort. Which effect would you like to argue?

I am talking about smoking in unconfined spaces or alone. I am talking about harm.
My answer perfectly matches the question you asked in the context of the thread. It may not have matched the question which you intended to ask, but I cannot reasonably be expected to make inferences based upon oblique implications.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:33,
archived)
My answer perfectly matches the question you asked in the context of the thread. It may not have matched the question which you intended to ask, but I cannot reasonably be expected to make inferences based upon oblique implications.

Everybody must wear some kind of gas-filtering nappy, by law. The police will perform routine checks to make sure we are wearing our nappies. Cans of beans, which must by law be unattractive, will carry large labels stating "this food WILL cause flatulence", and somewhere underneath, in smaller print, "baked beans". They will be heavily taxed. This will make the world a better place.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:36,
archived)

but i think we're safe just sticking to the generally accepted social convention that it's not polite to fart in someone's face.
That's all that I would ask of smokers, a little consideration for those non-smokers around you.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:47,
archived)
That's all that I would ask of smokers, a little consideration for those non-smokers around you.

Now, consideration is an issue here, not smoking.
There are twats out there - they need to be stopped, but lumping all smokers in with the arseholes is not reasonable at all.
'Some smokers are idiots. Ban smoking!'
'Someone used paint to write on a wall. Ban all paint!'
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:53,
archived)
There are twats out there - they need to be stopped, but lumping all smokers in with the arseholes is not reasonable at all.
'Some smokers are idiots. Ban smoking!'
'Someone used paint to write on a wall. Ban all paint!'

but one has both ideals to reach for and realistic goals.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:09,
archived)

Our opinions on other people's hobbies are worthless. Except of course that smokers tend to be irrational, perhaps more so than golfers. This much I can say with confidence is a bad thing. Whether rational smoking is good or bad ... well, I've never found cigarettes appealing. I've also never found avocados appealing. I'm not confident in my ability to say whether these things are good or bad for other people, I suspect the issues may be too complex.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:26,
archived)

(Being perfectly reasonable is considerate. Blargh, tautologies.)
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:54,
archived)

I just have no time for the concept of a right.
Actually, there's more than that. I simply can't make sense of it. I'll happily embrace a lot of what's defended by an appeal to rights as a good thing - but that doesn't make the defence any more reliable, and there're better ways to skin those particular cats.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:33,
archived)
Actually, there's more than that. I simply can't make sense of it. I'll happily embrace a lot of what's defended by an appeal to rights as a good thing - but that doesn't make the defence any more reliable, and there're better ways to skin those particular cats.

for it is informative and thought-provoking without being condescending
I will vote for it in the forthcoming election
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:19,
archived)
I will vote for it in the forthcoming election

People apparently want the government to turn their friends and neighbours into better behaved, more sensible people, and that's why we have all this crap. Because the attitude that it's alright for everyone to apply mild coercion to everyone else is widespread. Policies are to some extent the fault of the public, since the government studies our opinions to see what we'll swallow.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:20,
archived)

so I can spy on the neighbours to see if they're watching TV ads for alcohol
while I have a wank
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:21,
archived)
while I have a wank

It worries me that anyone would think that was a good thing.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:25,
archived)

there must be some attraction to it. Dictators keep popping up.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:31,
archived)


I find one is never enough....
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:01,
archived)


"Boris, How do you want your eggs, fried or boiled?..
or on your face as usual."

blog and archive
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 11:57,
archived)
or on your face as usual."

blog and archive

afterall the whole point of putting cigs on display is that you can see the price!
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 11:58,
archived)

What is the score with not being able to smoke in open spaces, such as open rail platforms, parks, hospital grounds and so on?
Why the fuck gives anyone the right to dictate what others do to themselves?
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:00,
archived)
Why the fuck gives anyone the right to dictate what others do to themselves?

democracy and freedom is a facade and in actual fact we are property of the state!
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:03,
archived)

here smoking in public is within open spaces and im fine with it.
though idon't want to be in a lift with someone smoking
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:04,
archived)
though idon't want to be in a lift with someone smoking

leads to extra cleaning, as very often bins are not provided, and even if they are, there's still
a high amount of smokers who drop and stomp their butts anywhere they like.
Irrespective of anything else, at least it helps reduce part of the litter problem they cause.
Mind you, this is a minor point in the grand scheme of things
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:04,
archived)
a high amount of smokers who drop and stomp their butts anywhere they like.
Irrespective of anything else, at least it helps reduce part of the litter problem they cause.
Mind you, this is a minor point in the grand scheme of things


Was he made to pick it up?
Was he abused by passers by?
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:07,
archived)
Was he abused by passers by?

But when, in the absence of a bin withing a couple of metres, did you last see a smoker stub out his cigarette and take the butt away for disposal later?
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:08,
archived)

I have no problem with punishing littering, but find the idea that banning smoking is the way to stop fag buts, rather than enforcing the ban on dropping them.
Let's ban all streets - that'll stop street crime.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:12,
archived)
Let's ban all streets - that'll stop street crime.

Clark's Village for the ultimate, cacophonous loss.
/West Country obscurity
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:20,
archived)
/West Country obscurity

but then I went to the new Westfield last week and found the hidden layer of hell
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:25,
archived)

I only have to use them a couple of times a year, but it was a decent investment nevertheless.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 13:47,
archived)

I've not heard of it being banned in parks or open rail platforms. Any links?
Hospital grounds banning smoking, though, seems to me not to be unreasonable, what with hospitals being about health, an' all...
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:04,
archived)
Hospital grounds banning smoking, though, seems to me not to be unreasonable, what with hospitals being about health, an' all...

There's certainly signs up.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:06,
archived)

it'll be bloody dangerous for their health.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:06,
archived)

Find me some documentation on the health affects of smoking.
I think that statistically smoking over 20 a day reduces the life span by 2 years?
Compare this to car related issues - why do we allow ambulances to drive on hospital grounds? We should ban CDs TODAY - they are made with plastics.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:10,
archived)
I think that statistically smoking over 20 a day reduces the life span by 2 years?
Compare this to car related issues - why do we allow ambulances to drive on hospital grounds? We should ban CDs TODAY - they are made with plastics.

(he may have got this due to blood transfusions/shots in the Army, so another aside to this comment is to ask you if you've been tested for it).
He drank for years and years, which didn't help it, and really fucked things up for a long time. Cirrohsis, for one.
Are they going to demonise alcohol? Are they bollocks.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:13,
archived)
He drank for years and years, which didn't help it, and really fucked things up for a long time. Cirrohsis, for one.
Are they going to demonise alcohol? Are they bollocks.

but on a much smaller scale
I reckon we will see tv ads for alcohol banned in our lifetime
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:16,
archived)
I reckon we will see tv ads for alcohol banned in our lifetime

is equivelent of smoking two fags in terms of the carconegins you inhale
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:14,
archived)

Why is it I'm always stood/sitting next to The Man With All The Aftershave In The World On?
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:15,
archived)

But let's take it at face value. Maybe some lives would not be ended by ambulances if there were none. But a lot of people would be made worse off directly.
Now perform the same thought-experiment with cigarettes. Not quite the same result.
Look: of course there's a trade-off to be made. But noone'd deny that. And since smoking does nothing at all to promote health, and ambulances do quite a bit, it's clear which way the trade should go on that one.
The actual measure of the harm of smoking isn't all that important here, I don't think. It's just a matter of a body the function of which is to improve health deciding not to facilitate an activity that diminishes it. No biggie.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:15,
archived)
Now perform the same thought-experiment with cigarettes. Not quite the same result.
Look: of course there's a trade-off to be made. But noone'd deny that. And since smoking does nothing at all to promote health, and ambulances do quite a bit, it's clear which way the trade should go on that one.
The actual measure of the harm of smoking isn't all that important here, I don't think. It's just a matter of a body the function of which is to improve health deciding not to facilitate an activity that diminishes it. No biggie.

i'd rather have lung cancer and know who the hell i am
than be eight years old again at the age of ninety
FACT
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:21,
archived)
than be eight years old again at the age of ninety
FACT

get Alzheimer's - then you can forget you've got lung cancer
/logic blog
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:22,
archived)
/logic blog

Or is it just a question which is hard for you to answer?
Ignore Ambulances - let's go with cars instead?
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:28,
archived)
Ignore Ambulances - let's go with cars instead?

It's a different matter. I dig hard questions.
EDIT: OK, let's go with the car thing. I don't see your point.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:37,
archived)
EDIT: OK, let's go with the car thing. I don't see your point.

Why ban fags when you can ban cars?
Non essential journeys are just to make you happier - which is what fags are for . . .
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:55,
archived)
Non essential journeys are just to make you happier - which is what fags are for . . .

... Noone proposed banning fags; that's not what the issue here was. Here, we were concerned with banning smoking in some places. Applying that principle to cars - that they should be banned in some places as well, seems straightforward...
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:58,
archived)

even the big long open ones, i got caught out at cambridge platform 5 shortly after the ban came in, just chipped the fag and nothing further was said
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:07,
archived)

Bus Stops, Parks, Railway Platforms (open or otherwise) saying that there isn't much enforcement.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:07,
archived)

Hospitals are places to make you well. Smoking a cigarette, if you are a smoker, is not an individual health issue, it is in fact a bad idea to try and give up during a time when you are under physical stress.
Also, if you have smoked for your whole life and then go to hospital because you are dying of MS, how lovely it is that not being able to smoke in the grounds makes your last days wank as well?
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:08,
archived)
Also, if you have smoked for your whole life and then go to hospital because you are dying of MS, how lovely it is that not being able to smoke in the grounds makes your last days wank as well?

where the prices seem only to be a 'guide' for how much one actually gets charged.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:01,
archived)

My local corner shop has just decided that if you buy fags on a card you'll get charged 70p more!
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:04,
archived)

Fags onna card!? Like . . . 'Happy 16th birthday! Spark one up!'
Ace!


( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:06,
archived)
Ace!



That won't get kids smoking at all.
Fuck off Mr Government, I'll quit when I want to.
*is not referring to BBD as Mr Government.*
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:01,
archived)
Fuck off Mr Government, I'll quit when I want to.
*is not referring to BBD as Mr Government.*

lets put every packet of fags in a locked safe and everytime you want a smoke you have to apply to your local MP for one.
If you get past that stage yopu then are submitted to a Dragon's Den style interrogation in which your need for a cigarette is assessed.
You recieve a final decision two weeks later informing you if your application for a cigarette has been approved.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:05,
archived)
If you get past that stage yopu then are submitted to a Dragon's Den style interrogation in which your need for a cigarette is assessed.
You recieve a final decision two weeks later informing you if your application for a cigarette has been approved.



What?
Oh.
*wanders off*
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:08,
archived)
Oh.
*wanders off*

*hungry*
*hugs*
How's you?
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:07,
archived)
*hugs*
How's you?

And a Pret Chocolate Brownie.
And some Orange Juice.
and a Smoked Salmon & Cream Cheese sandwich on brown, black pepper, and a little bit of lemon, please.
/missed breakfast...
Edit: *HUUUUUUGGGGGSSSSSSSS*
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:13,
archived)
And some Orange Juice.
and a Smoked Salmon & Cream Cheese sandwich on brown, black pepper, and a little bit of lemon, please.
/missed breakfast...
Edit: *HUUUUUUGGGGGSSSSSSSS*

I'm off to the machine.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:15,
archived)

i've a good mind to stop travelling over to the continent to buy my tobacco a couple of times a year and start buying it for 3 times as much here instead.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:02,
archived)

*orders several bales of Golden Virgina and a few boxes of blue skins*
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:03,
archived)

*just realises he's nearly out of duty-frees*
Argh!
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:07,
archived)
Argh!

Some pornographic playing cards, some absinthe and a flick-knife?
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:09,
archived)

*chuckles madly to self*
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:16,
archived)

a mate of mine used to bring them back and we would cut them open & make bigger bangers. Oh to be a kid again....
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:24,
archived)

the fags were on shelves behind me. There was no room in that kiosk for anything else. I guess newsagents will have to stand on them now.
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:07,
archived)


but I'm trying to incorporate Christmas after all
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 11:56,
archived)

but god these old comic characters were hawt
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 11:56,
archived)


you about next week? porterhouse? or something more low-key?
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:22,
archived)

off to manc this weekend for the Warehouse Project with Dawn..
If you wanna chat mate just give us a bell..
( ,
Wed 10 Dec 2008, 12:38,
archived)
If you wanna chat mate just give us a bell..
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